224 réponses à ce sujet

[JunMadine]

The OP is most likely a troll.

[Baine10]

****. Stop Pleeing, get a spell checker and stop posting these kind of threads. They are as important as your point.

Meaning that they are pointless, just to make it clear, and not "open to intrepretation".

[Web Access Card]

I'm ambivalent about this issue, but I wouldn't say that the endings shouldn't be changed because such alteration, by its very nature, sets a bad precedent. Games are a new art form, and they function quite differently from other forms of media, i.e., they're interactive. In a sense, for the developer to amend the ending in response to collective dismay by the fan community could be regarded as an extension of that interactivity beyond the confines of the game's initial coding to a direct interplay between developers and the gaming community. The question of whether the ending ought to be changed hinges most directly on whether the ending, such as it is, is deserving of special preservation. I can see both sides.

[j78]

What? bioware have made changes to second printings of their books .The next time some say’s that mass effect is so beyond reproach and it’s art that must not be altered ,It’s just not true this is a consumer product that’s whole selling point is you choose what happens .your choices matters, sure it does right up to the point of choosing the color of the Christmas lights at the end .They changed the fiction to fit the universe before they can do it again .

[viperabyss]

knbettenhausen wrote...

We are neither test audiences or editors. So there is no precedent

So you're saying there's no precedent because it has never happened to Bioware's Mass Effect 3?

Face it. Ending gets changed all the time. This will not be the first time, nor the last time endings gets changed.

[Brahlis]

If it weren't for people like the OP we wouldn't have strife in this world.

[Mhgasa]

knbettenhausen wrote...

As I read a few more posts from Bioware about them listening to concerns and their plans to release campaign DLC I get more and more fearful that they will actually create a new ending for ME3. Not only would this be a terrible idea for the Mass Effect games, but this would set a terrible precident for game fiction in general. I think it's completely justified for people not to enjoy the ending of Mass Effect 3. Every piece of fiction has people who don't enjoy it; unfortunetly for Bioware, Mass Effect has a very loud minority of people who don't enjoy the ending and hatefully want it changed (and yes, those of you who are hatefully complaining about the ending are in the minority of the millions who will complete ME3). 

Mass Effect is Bioware's fiction. It is their characters and their world. People complain that the Shepard they "created" is their Shepard, but it isn't! Every single choice you made in Mass Effect was a planned story piece that Bioware created. It is clear that with the relays being destroyed and Shepard's crew crash landing on the unknown planet for each ending that Bioware has a direction for where they want that story to continue, if it does in fact continue at all. I'm ok with them releasing DLC, books, comics, movies, etc about what may have happen to other races or crew members after the end of ME3, but it would be a horrific idea if they were to change the endings or create a new one.

We don't want to set a precedent in gaming fiction that if gamers complain enough that the writer's behind gaming fiction have to change their fiction. As audiences to this fiction we have to accept what is given to us whether terrible or great. If you want answers to questions unanswered that is ok. As long as you aren't asking Bioware to screw up the canon of their work. And it's ok for Bioware to leave Mass Effect 3 with unaswered questions. They have more planned for the Mass Effect universe whether DLC, comic, book, or movie. Have patience.

I don't think Bioware will crumble and change the ending, but this is my plee for them not to.

Im pretty sure that the reaction they have received regarding the endings, wasnt what they intended or expected and defnitely wasnt how they would want mass effect to be remembered. 
They might have thought it worked really well and when it didnt, there really is no shame in seen things in a new light and decide to change things. People seem to think that its an either or, either they admit defeat or they stand strong.

People around here must live some pretty strange lives if they never change their mind about something after a constructive discussion. Thats not caving in or admitting defeat, its called getting wiser and its what adults usually do when there is a disagreement.

If they disagree thats fine, but if they decide to change things its not a defeat or a sellout.

[Mr Indivisible]

Unlike in ME3, you are entitled to your choice.


For the rest, Cato_84 said it well:

cato_84 wrote...


Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.

Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?

I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.

In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?

Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.

[Turkeysock]

I RJay I wrote...

Turkeysock wrote...

"Loud Minority?"

I know a lot of people irl who've played and beaten ME3, they hated the endings but aren't the kind of people who go out of their way to voice their opinions.

I've talked to a lot of people on the ME3 multiplayer who absolutely hate the endings, but they don't bother to chat about it in forums or on websites because they just don't feel like it.

There are a bunch of people on here who've signed up but either don't bother to post because someone else has already voiced an opinion very similar to theirs, or they just don't want to get in the middle of the fight.

Either way, knbettenhausen, you are the minority. And it's not that I don't respect your opinion, you can choose to like the endings if you want. But we were promised closure and a definite end to the series. I and many others who don't like the endings have stated that we accept the fact that Shepard will die at the end. But what we cannot accept is the fact that no matter the choice we make, R, B, or G, we get almost the exact same ending.

As customers who've paid 60+ USD (if you change that to the Euro, Pound or any other currency it's about the same amount in USD), we were told certain things would be in this product, which were not. That's what we're angry about.

This... I know lots of people who didn't like it, but they didn't care as much about the series... So they just said "well that ending was a bit crap" and that was that.  That means they won't be buying DLC for it, but if the ending was added to or changed, whatever... I'm sure that they would, and I certainly would.
I actually, only know of 1 person who liked the end, and from what I've heard from him, he didn't understand the endings.  But I didn't have the heart to inform him and ruin the ending for him, so I let him live in his land of space magic where he is happy.

I know a few who think the endings are alright. But they've only played ME3, I keep insisting that they also play ME1+2 as well, but they were like "Na, I don't need to." I know they've made it easy to jump into the game without playing the first two, but those people will miss so much if they just play the third game! Plus they don't even really understand where people like us are coming from!

But if there's one thing I've learned in this world, it's that the vast majority, whether they like or dislike something, will never voice it. They'll do polls, but they won't go out of their way to say something about it. And the Gamestop I got my ME3 Xbox 360 CE, says that they've got 60% returns of ME3 from their first day of sale. It's not like returning them is going to hurt Bioware, Gamestop already purchased the games.

[dheer]

Jake71887 wrote...
There's already precedent for this, so your claims are baseless.

Argument won in one post. Well done.

[cerberus1701]

To the OP:

They can release a DLC that gives everything the fans want and simply say, "This is for you, the fans. This is not canon within the franchise. Anything done with the product in a post ME3 era assumes the original endings are final."

And most people would accept that and decide on its own merits whether they wanted that game or whatever else it might be.

They want to see the ending they expected.

Or at least want to see a definitive statement from BW now one way or the other so they stop feeling manipulated.

[Flashlegend]

knbettenhausen wrote...

garf wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

jdgjordan wrote...

why should your one plee come before every ones else plee to change the ending.

Why would the ending be chanced because a handfull of people disliked it. As it stands the majority still enjoyed the ending. Both parties have equal claims. Wether you agree or not.

To be fair "Change" is how YOU are framing the debate.

Added to would work for me. More closure. more options. REAL options not three different coloured doors to the same ending. Which you can keep, so it's not affecting you.

I challenge your claim to the majority. prove it. and not with the old trite 'Silent Majority' argument. That went out with Reagan

Who's to say if Bioware releases another ending that people will like it? Or if they release 3 more endings, or 10. Should they keep releasing endings until they appease all of the noise? Absolutely not, it's absurd. That would get out of hand. 

They damn well better make an ending that people can respect. It doesn't have to be unicorns and rainbows and Shepard doesn't even have to survive. But it shouldn't contradict previous events, invalidate themes focused on throughout the series and it most definitely shouldn't have so many plotholes/inconsistencies that people pick up on them right away.

The current ending fails to keep suspension of disbelief alive. In fact, IT SHATTERS the suspension of disbelief for many many players because of how poorly written it is. How is that acceptable?

edit: grammar

Modifié par Flashlegend, 16 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[KillSlash45]

Killer3000ad wrote...

knbettenhausen wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

If you having problems with the ending, I got news for you son, this http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/ shows that the majority of people hate the ending. There are also BSN polls that show people who hate the ending are the HUGE HUGE majority.

The poll I saw shows 43,000 want a better ending... This game will sell in the 3 millions. And you can be certain that most people who come to the polls to vote do so because they are angry, not happy with the game

Ever heard of how they do polling for the elections? They don't call every single citizen in the country and ask them who'd they vote for, they take a sample. 43,000 out of 50,000 votes, is a VERY GOOD SAMPLE.

Don't believe me? Back when there was the whole FemShep voting on facebook, there was a separate BSN poll going. The Facebook vote had like 60,000 votes, the BSN poll had about 6000 but the results were so similiar that the margin of error was about 2-5%.

Obviously they don't call everyone in the country to vote on politicians. But this is more like only giving that poll to people who hate the current politician, which is essentailly what BSN polls are. The poll was advertised as a way to show bioware the endings are bad. The poll was mainly linked in threads about how bad the ending was. The poll is only votable on by a community that by and large dislike the ending.

It is NOT representative of everyone who bought the game. No poll on BSN can be.

And people on BSN are largely the same people who go and vote on the facebook app.

[AlexXIV]

Stopped reading after loud minority. Get you facts straight, read a bit in the forum what kind of problems people have with the ending and then come back to talk about it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 16 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[OSUfan12121]

I know 3 other people who've played ME3, one started at ME3 and he thought the ending was ok but didn't understand it really. One sold it because he said it had no replayability because of the endings and the other one down right hates the ending and is only playing it again to get the achievements. None of them are on this site or part of retake Mass Effect but yet they still hate the ending as much as we do.

[Mahrac]

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

knbettenhausen wrote...
As long as you aren't asking Bioware to screw up the canon of their work.

I lold hard...

The canon came to my house. Trust me, it's traumatized by it's violation

[DrDark101]

Capeo wrote...

Bioware already screwed up their canon dozens of times. And there's already a precedent. Not to mention giving more information is not "changing" per se.

This.

I don't think the ending needs to magically dissapear nor do I think thats even an option, but adding to it? Very possible.

[GreyhameBioware]

KillSlash45 wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

knbettenhausen wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

If you having problems with the ending, I got news for you son, this http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/ shows that the majority of people hate the ending. There are also BSN polls that show people who hate the ending are the HUGE HUGE majority.

The poll I saw shows 43,000 want a better ending... This game will sell in the 3 millions. And you can be certain that most people who come to the polls to vote do so because they are angry, not happy with the game

Ever heard of how they do polling for the elections? They don't call every single citizen in the country and ask them who'd they vote for, they take a sample. 43,000 out of 50,000 votes, is a VERY GOOD SAMPLE.

Don't believe me? Back when there was the whole FemShep voting on facebook, there was a separate BSN poll going. The Facebook vote had like 60,000 votes, the BSN poll had about 6000 but the results were so similiar that the margin of error was about 2-5%.

Obviously they don't call everyone in the country to vote on politicians. But this is more like only giving that poll to people who hate the current politician, which is essentailly what BSN polls are. The poll was advertised as a way to show bioware the endings are bad. The poll was mainly linked in threads about how bad the ending was. The poll is only votable on by a community that by and large dislike the ending.

It is NOT representative of everyone who bought the game. No poll on BSN can be.

And people on BSN are largely the same people who go and vote on the facebook app.

Pretty much every pool I've seen, BSN or not, generally is highly negative.  Even in places that say the endings are fine.

[MasterKiller64]

If they release new ending DLC and you don't want a new ending than don't buy/download the DLC.

[Stygian1]

 Hey, these evil trolls couldn't keep their threads afloat if we didn't respond--so don't respond.


(I'm aware of the irony in my statment.) 

[JDLowe]

the ending change would be optional, so you wouldn't have to get it.

[JamieCOTC]

knbettenhausen wrote...

Risselda wrote...

They dont need to change it, just add more.

I think this fine, but they never said they wouldn't add more... it's only been a bit since release. DLC will come

BW made it pretty clear that there would be no DLC after the events of ME3.

Note that for ME3 especially, DLC could take place in settings other than post-game.
https://twitter.com/...624346060210178

I know he's being vague here, but this was tweeted long before the game came out so he didn't want to spoil the ending. It's pretty obvious that BW has no plans for post game DLC.

For the record, I agree that BW has no obligation to change or extend the ending. It's their game, their sand box, but if they don't do something ME3 will only be remembered for it's ending. And the franchise deserves better. 

[knbettenhausen]

I probably won't be able to check back on this thread for a while, but I do hope that Bioware sticks with their vision.

Here's to hoping.

[dms79]

Here is Forbes saying your defense of intellectual property, and IGN's view that we are all "too entitled," is a bad business decision, and will hurt Bioware's fanbase:
http://www.forbes.co...er-entitlement/

[KillSlash45]

GreyhameBioware wrote...

KillSlash45 wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

knbettenhausen wrote...

Killer3000ad wrote...

If you having problems with the ending, I got news for you son, this http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/ shows that the majority of people hate the ending. There are also BSN polls that show people who hate the ending are the HUGE HUGE majority.

The poll I saw shows 43,000 want a better ending... This game will sell in the 3 millions. And you can be certain that most people who come to the polls to vote do so because they are angry, not happy with the game

Ever heard of how they do polling for the elections? They don't call every single citizen in the country and ask them who'd they vote for, they take a sample. 43,000 out of 50,000 votes, is a VERY GOOD SAMPLE.

Don't believe me? Back when there was the whole FemShep voting on facebook, there was a separate BSN poll going. The Facebook vote had like 60,000 votes, the BSN poll had about 6000 but the results were so similiar that the margin of error was about 2-5%.

Obviously they don't call everyone in the country to vote on politicians. But this is more like only giving that poll to people who hate the current politician, which is essentailly what BSN polls are. The poll was advertised as a way to show bioware the endings are bad. The poll was mainly linked in threads about how bad the ending was. The poll is only votable on by a community that by and large dislike the ending.

It is NOT representative of everyone who bought the game. No poll on BSN can be.

And people on BSN are largely the same people who go and vote on the facebook app.

Pretty much every pool I've seen, BSN or not, generally is highly negative.  Even in places that say the endings are fine.

And those polls got those votes from......you guesed it. The BSN community. Those polls were linked all over the place here in threads.....about how bad the ending was.

Only way I can safely say that a poll is accurate is if they randomy gave a poll to people out of the pool of everyone who bought the game. To get a good, representative sample size. No that does not mean all customers, that means randomly give out so many polls from the list of total customers.