219 réponses à ce sujet

[aksoileau]

DLC profits and longterm sales is what they are worrying about. Try this again in a few weeks or when first DLC launches.

And OP, those 1.85 million haven't all finished the game. So your argument is invalid.

[Rheinlandman]

If I recall over half the people who bought ME2 never finished it.

The amount of people who have voted represents a suitable subject pool to draw an appropriate conclusion from.

Also consider how many people signed up for this forum just to voice their displeasure in the ending.

[Oldbones2]

I think you are wrong and if you don't believe me, or trust my economic sense, why don't you try reading Forbes (a business magazine that specializes in .... you guessed it business). They can very easily point out to you and everyone else just why this ending mess and BW's handling of it is going to be bad for them in the long term and probably the short term as well.

Have a nice day.

[kbct]

Stompi wrote...

And one more thing, this outrage is really not comparable to the complaints after the Mass Effect 2 release. Mass Effect 2 always had an approval rating of I think over 90% in all the polls here and outpolled Mass Effect 1 2:1 in the polls when asked which game was better. Even Dragon Age 2 never had 85-95% disapproval rating. I really don't think that we are talking about a small group this time.

This backlash is unprecedented. Can anyone give me an example of a similar situation in gaming? DA2? Fallout 3? Are they even in the same ballpark?

In a poll with 52K people, only 2% liked the ending as-is? The poll may be biased and some people voted multiple times with different accounts, but a 2% approval rate is very revealing. Something is wrong. Show me any other poll with 50K+ votes where only 2% vote for something. It's unheard of.

[Juniper Mucius]

I think you forget that BSN is pretty against the game. BSN is where they will get the majority of their reactions. You also have to remember that we at BSN are typically the more hardcore gamers, the more involved. Not the number one fans, but the more involved. That means we can help get others involved, and we have seen in the past how even a minority of BSN can change things when it comes to BioWare policy with the game (FemShep).

They can't ignore the hate for long, or it will backfire.

[Dimensio]

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Not all gamers are constrained by the limitations of linear time.

[garf]

chengthao wrote...

Odd Hermit wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Not entirely true.

yeah, but i would say a large portion does

i kno ppl rent, borrow, pirate but i would say quite a few ppl do buy b4 they finish a game

I did. Not anymore.

[Spectre_Shepard]

plaguecaller wrote...

First week numbers for Mass Effect 3 are in. The game sold 1.85 million units, which is up from 890,000 in its first day in North America. The Xbox 360 version sold 1.28 million units (69%), while the PlayStation 3 version sold 370,000 units (20%). The PC version sold 200,000 units (11%) at retail.


This is an increase over the previous game in the franchise, Mass Effect 2, which sold one million units in its opening week at retail across the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 and PC. The Xbox 360 version increased by 410,000, the PlayStation 3 version by 280,000 and the PC version by 163,000. The original version of the game sold just 384,121 units in its opening week in May, 2008. This shows that the franchise has increased in popularity dramatically.

So reflecting on this and watching the board I started to play with some numbers. Knowing I don’t have all the facts but looking at some amounts. They show a pretty bleak picture for the people complaining about wanting a different ending.

1.8 million x’s $45.00 =  $81,000,000 – 30,000 (people who are whining or have chosen not to play because of reading the boards) @ $1,350,000

Means about $78,000,000 in sales after the complainer loss of 1.3 million is factored into play. This does not include the fact that people complaining actually bought the game played it then complained about it. So the real sales total makes it around $80 million.

And conservatively look at your potential negative influence; you may have managed to get maybe 30,000 people to choose not paying to play. It’s not in the hundred thousand ranges of no sales because we would have heard that by now.

You are not that significant. At the most there maybe what 1500 posters on this board that are actually complaining. Taking into account the biggest complaints threads here are around 3-4k posts and allow for each poster a minimum of two posts.

Bioware probably does care about you returning to buy more product most corporations do, but your sense of exceptionalism and entitlement to a product you do not own is not mirrored by the sales numbers.
In a risk analysis it turns into a $78 million gained even after your $1.3 million, loss affecting sales. Not taking into account you did pay for the games and they really did make 80 million in the first week.

Take a step back and think.

As of March 9th 3.5 million copies shipped.
http://videogames.co...s-north-america

I am hoping to articulate this without causing a flame war but...

The rest of the ME3 buying world is against you no matter what you may want to believe. You are not as supported as you want to think you are. You are not the majority of players.You may want to get used to it. You are certainly the loudest of the groups so Kudus’ to you, but not the biggest.

Thanks for your passion it does not amount to a hill of beans in the big picture.

the vast majority of these people HAVE NOT FINISHED THE GAME.

and some of them NEVER will. only 50% completed ME2.

and how many of those who are pissed off will never post on these forums about it? probably most.

seriously, think your argument through.

[dkear1]

This argument is really quite pointless. I personally hated the endings.

However time will answer this question and nothing else.

[SeventyOne]

A similar like/dislike debate which i can remember, was the Pandalovers/Pandahaters debate concerning the World of Warcracft expansion. Both the debaters voiced their opinions on official and unofficial forums, and it seems that the majority of them wanted Pandas. But there was a strong discussion about it, between the debaters.
That is not what is happening here. Except of some few posters claiming they like the ending, the large majority of players do not like the ending. The issue here is not whether you like or dislike the ending but how much those endings suck.
It is safe to say that any wise businessman that has seen this large disapproval over his product would try to see where things went wrong and wont be claiming: "Hey i ve sold a million copies, but only fifty thousand dissatisfied consumers came willingly to tell me that my product has some major flaws, so the majority liked it."
If the endings were really good then people would came here to congratulate Bioware, just as they did with DA:O or ME1 for example, or complaining on minor things.
Another thing that points out that this debate sales because many people dont like the endings is that there is that guy that had put "inside information" about the endings on a price!!! for everyone wanted to download it.
So the numbers are here for the people that want changed endings and every body knows that.
It is Bioware's turn to play now...

P.S. The ME3 endings will be unforgettable for all the wrong reasons.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

//thread



Seriously OP... how long did you think this through for? 

[bpzrn]

You can't assume that everyone who is silent enjoyed the game and the endings


Facebook, Twitter, News outlets, the fact that BW has ACK the rage, its a lot higher dissasisfaction than you point out.

Also, weather they change the ending or not, I doubt they will, bigger point is Brand and Returning customers - long term issues should be thier consern IMO. Both are going to take a hit.


I still cant belive thats the best they come up with (ending)  for such an excelent game(s).... sad 

Modifié par bpzrn, 16 mars 2012 - 07:35 .

[bleachorange]

Dimensio wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Not all gamers are constrained by the limitations of linear time.

Yes, gamers who review the games professionally get paid to play the games instead of the other way around.

Their livelihood depends on staying in the good graces of developers and publishers. These sites almost never rate a game below 5. Just saying.

[kbct]

dkear1 wrote...

This argument is really quite pointless. I personally hated the endings.

However time will answer this question and nothing else.

I agree that only time will tell.

However, I like this thread. I like talking about real numbers. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Those sales are from expectation, not satisfaction...

[bleachorange]

@plaguecaller
As admirable as your attempt is, it is flawed from the very beginning. You base all the rage against ME3 endings on ONE POLL and include TOTAL SALES figures? That's like standing outside one gate to a stadium, and seeing how many people come up to you and tell you willingly the game sucked, and then playing that against total attendance. It's flawed math. Never mind the fact that it's only the fourth quarter and not everyone has left yet.

[glacier1701]

plaguecaller wrote...

 snip.

 The problem is that you are NOT someone who even knows how polls/surveys work and the mathematics behind them. Do some googling and you can quickly find numerous results on this topic. However in short this is true.....

The mathematical basis for opinion polling is Jakob Bernoulli's law of large numbers. Roughly speaking, this says that if you take a sufficiently large random subcollection of a population, it will be representative of the entire population. The more numerous the random subcollection, the more it will reflect the entire population.

Most people are surprised by how small a random sample can be and yet still yield a reliable result. If you do the math, you find that (provided the sample polled is truly random) 1,000 people will give you a prediction accurate to within a 3% margin of error. You could get the error down to 1% if you polled 10,000, but the more people you poll the more expensive it gets, of course. 1,000 is a number typically used these days.

....There is some bias obviously here on this site since it will ONLY be representative of those people who belong to the BSN and have played ME3 and can be bothered to actually come to the site but that will ONLY mean that the polls/survey may have larger margins of error with low numbers. Yet the poll on this site has over 50k people answering it so it beats the minimum numbers and can be said to have a low margin of error. Even more to the point polls on other sites show the same split in people in their opionion about the ending. In other words the polls show that 80% of the ENTIRE player base who have played the game to the end would have the opinion that the ending is bad if they were asked!!!!

In other words the problem is real.

Sources:

• http://www.publicage...nd-margin-error
  
  
• http://www.maa.org/d...vlin_11_08.html
  
  
• http://en.wikipedia....ki/Opinion_poll 

Modifié par glacier1701, 16 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[hitorihanzo]

plaguecaller wrote...

Which may shock you that for the most part thare are1500- 2000 posters maybe here that are in the change the endings camp..

Its almost two weeks now so a lot of people should have finished it that have bought it..

Explain why there has not been a bigger flood of poeple saying change the endings?

Only thing I can think of is the majority are ok with the game no matter what you need to believe.

Or maybe they are like me, who are content to lurk the forums and only complain occasionally.  Even more feel extremely... nerdy (my friend's words) about going online to complain about a video game. Doesn't mean that they liked the ending. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Exeider]

glacier1701 wrote...

plaguecaller wrote...

 snip.

 The problem is that you are NOT someone who even knows how polls/surveys work and the mathematics behind them. Do some googling and you can quickly find numerous results on this topic. However in short this is true.....

The mathematical basis for opinion polling is Jakob Bernoulli's law of large numbers. Roughly speaking, this says that if you take a sufficiently large random subcollection of a population, it will be representative of the entire population. The more numerous the random subcollection, the more it will reflect the entire population.

Most people are surprised by how small a random sample can be and yet still yield a reliable result. If you do the math, you find that (provided the sample polled is truly random) 1,000 people will give you a prediction accurate to within a 3% margin of error. You could get the error down to 1% if you polled 10,000, but the more people you poll the more expensive it gets, of course. 1,000 is a number typically used these days.

....There is some bias obviously here on this site since it will ONLY be representative of those people who belong to the BSN and have played ME3 and can be bothered to actually come to the site but that will ONLY mean that the polls/survey may have larger margins of error with low numbers. Yet the poll on this site has over 50k people answering it so it beats the minimum numbers and can be said to have a low margin of error. Even more to the point polls on other sites show the same split in people in their opionion about the ending. In other words the polls show that 80% of the ENTIRE player base who have played the game to the end would have the opinion that the ending is bad if they were asked!!!!

In other words the problem is real.

Sources:

• http://www.publicage...nd-margin-error
  
  
• http://www.maa.org/d...vlin_11_08.html
  
  
• http://en.wikipedia....ki/Opinion_poll 

Ka-plink!

That's the sniper bullet of truth going through the OPs head, because he's just had his mind BLOWN.

-Æ

[Legendaryred]

Man, you don't know anything about statistics, look at presidential polls, do you think they poll every single person in the country? no, they poll a small portion, 300 people and apply those numbers on a greater scale, hence you have the 5 out of 10 people statistics and so on. Saying stuff like only 30k fans don't like the ending and that's the only people that don't like the ending is just plain naive. You are also not taking into account word of mouth and user reviews. Word of mouth is how games mainly get their publicity from, IF i tell my friend that such game sucks there is a bigger chance he won't buy it.

[Aggressor01]

Easy, some gamers dont care and some dont even know about forums. Not everyone who buys a copy will complain. They´ll just sell it second hand, or let it collect dust if they feel disappointed.

[Aesieru]

As much as I support just getting some cigars and chilling out about this over wine and good conversation...

And I REALLY DO think that's a much better use of our time.

The issue remains that DA2 had great sales, and then it was returned. Then the sales weren't so great.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Legendaryred wrote...

Man, you don't know anything about statistics, look at presidential polls, do you think they poll every single person in the country? no, they poll a small portion, 300 people and apply those numbers on a greater scale, hence you have the 5 out of 10 people statistics and so on. Saying stuff like only 30k fans don't like the ending and that's the only people that don't like the ending is just plain naive. You are also not taking into account word of mouth and user reviews. Word of mouth is how games mainly get their publicity from, IF i tell my friend that such game sucks there is a bigger chance he won't buy it.

Thanks, that's just what I was about to post.
And in the end, whatever the results may be, a lots of sales would have been lost.

[bleachorange]

If 47,000 out of 52,000 are SOME of the numbers you should be using. Not 30,000 out of 1.8 million. Also if this is by far and away (think about it - this poll beats out every other poll on BSN by at least 40,000 total votes) the most responded poll on BSN, the next two largest also have statistics showing the majority prefer new endings. this means, regardless of WHERE the poll is located, the trend is Bioware has ticked off SO MANY MORE PEOPLE THAN IT EVER HAS BEFORE by at least 500%, on it's own FAN WEBSITE where people who LIKE their games come to play. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that regardless of correct statistics, SOME SH*T IS GOING DOWN.