219 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

glacier1701 wrote...

....There is some bias obviously here on this site since it will ONLY be representative of those people who belong to the BSN and have played ME3 and can be bothered to actually come to the site but that will ONLY mean that the polls/survey may have larger margins of error with low numbers. Yet the poll on this site has over 50k people answering it so it beats the minimum numbers and can be said to have a low margin of error. Even more to the point polls on other sites show the same split in people in their opionion about the ending. In other words the polls show that 80% of the ENTIRE player base who have played the game to the end would have the opinion that the ending is bad if they were asked!!!!

In other words the problem is real.

Nice post. Agreed. Other evidence on the internet points in the same direction as well. Plenty of confirming anecdotal evidence too. I'm still waiting for someone to present anything that supports the majority liked the ending.

The problem is people will still dismiss the evidence until every man, woman, and child has given their opinion - even though they know that is impossible. So, people will just continue to we're the minority view.

Here is what Mr. Woo said a couple days ago:

"I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy."

Heh, note-worthy.

Modifié par kbct, 16 mars 2012 - 08:18 .

[XRelakX]

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Here's something that might shock you.People pay for the game BEFORE they finish it,and whining after doesnt make BW losse money. Problem?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

kbct wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

....There is some bias obviously here on this site since it will ONLY be representative of those people who belong to the BSN and have played ME3 and can be bothered to actually come to the site but that will ONLY mean that the polls/survey may have larger margins of error with low numbers. Yet the poll on this site has over 50k people answering it so it beats the minimum numbers and can be said to have a low margin of error. Even more to the point polls on other sites show the same split in people in their opionion about the ending. In other words the polls show that 80% of the ENTIRE player base who have played the game to the end would have the opinion that the ending is bad if they were asked!!!!

In other words the problem is real.

Nice post. Agreed. Other evidence on the internet points in the same direction as well. Plenty of confirming anecdotal evidence too. I'm still waiting for someone to present anything that supports the majority liked the ending.

The problem is people will still dismiss the evidence until every man, woman, and child has given their opinion - even though they know that is impossible. So, people will just continue to we're the minority view.

Here is what Mr. Woo said a couple days ago:

"I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy."

Heh, note-worthy.

Not until every person has given their opinion, but speaking as someone who hates the endings and wants them changed, how can the poll still be considered statistically significant? I was under the impression that anything that's not done by random sampling can be treated as false.

[bleachorange]

Sure it does. Why do companies market a product if once they have your money it doesn't matter? Because they want you to KEEP giving them your money. If a store screws you over with the brand new TV you just bought, and they won't refund it (something you can't do with a game, incidentally), do you recommend that store to others, much less keep shopping there? You clearly have no knowledge of business principles, as return customers are the hardest to come by.

Modifié par bleachorange, 16 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[Sharn01]

XRelakX wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Here's something that might shock you.People pay for the game BEFORE they finish it,and whining after doesnt make BW losse money. Problem?

People believe that if they make enough noise that Bio/EA will realize they may lose enough future revenue to correct the problem.  They are not wrong in this belief, it has happened many times with businesses, the real question is if they can make enough of a ruckus to cause a change.

[bleachorange]

@Baladas
There is at least a 500% increase in the traffic on that poll versus any other poll on BSN, AND 95% of them say the ending needs improvement. If you owned a business and increased your customer base by 500% (50 becomes 250, 1k becomes 5k, etc.) do you think that is statistically irrelevant?

Note, the point I'm trying to make isn't that such a percent liked/did not. It's that 5 times as many people took the trouble to vote on this poll than any previous one, BECAUSE IT MATTERS TO THEM.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

bleachorange wrote...

Note, the point I'm trying to make isn't that such a percent liked/did not. It's that 5 times as many people took the trouble to vote on this poll than any previous one, BECAUSE IT MATTERS TO THEM.

Hmm, I did not look at it like that. Much appreciated.

[bleachorange]

@Baladas
I'm glad you are least in a discussion (willing to give credit where it's due) and not just being stubborn like some people on both sides of the aisle.

[bleachorange]

And I admit this one poll isn't necessarily indicative of all of the people who purchased ME3. It is, however relevant in it's own way.

[mebtru]

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

[Verlidiane]

Aggressor01 wrote...

Easy, some gamers dont care and some dont even know about forums. Not everyone who buys a copy will complain. They´ll just sell it second hand, or let it collect dust if they feel disappointed.

This is totally true, especially for non-hardcare solo gamers. In the past when I've played a game I was disatisfied with I would just trade it back. But the ending of ME3 was so confoundingly bad and out of character for (arguably) the best RPG developer out there that I had to find a way to share my disapointment. I found BSN by accident while I was looking for an address for Bioware so I could snail mail them a letter!. I don't even have facebook, but I now find myself haunting this site because so many people have so much to say about the ending. And the overwhelming majority of it is bad.

[Verlidiane]

[quote]slyguy200 wrote...


[quote]whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.[/quote]
[/quote]

actually, not if they were warned about it before buying it about how it ends and how if s/he waited the end would either be fixed, or the price would drop.
 just saying[/quote]

Totally true. I talked my brother out of buying it, and he then warned seven of his friends away from it on my word and the reviews. And those guys are hardcore RPG gamers. This alone represents  an immediate loss of sales for ME3 and I'd bet we've all warned people to wait.

Modifié par Verlidiane, 16 mars 2012 - 08:46 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

XRelakX wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Here's something that might shock you.People pay for the game BEFORE they finish it,and whining after doesnt make BW losse money. Problem?

If whining prevents future purchases to any degree, then "BW losse money."  No problem at all.

[Toxichobbit]

Munktor wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

I guess you failed to see his point.  Week 1 the community was "up in arms" week two, it continued to sell steadily.  That is the point.  The community "bleak outlook" is not the reality of market.  That is the point the OP is making.

It was released on the 6th in the US. That was 10 days, just over a week and half ago. It was released on the 9th  in Europe, not quite a week ago based on the time of this post. I've read on these forums that it was only released in Japan a day or so ago, but i can't find a release date and i'm not willing to go off something i read on the forum as fact, so that's not conclusive either way.

The point is, it's only second week of sales in the US. For Europe it's still week 1 (just) so the sales growing in our first week (your second week) is hardly surprising. The next few weeks will give a clearer picture as the rest of the world catches up to the US - finishing playing the  game and reacting, either positively or negatively.

[Zalbik]

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Why is this so hard for people to figure out

[bleachorange]

Because they feel like they can't affect anything in the world so they want you to feel that way too. JK. Okay, only a little bit. If someone tells me it doesn't matter does that mean I'm likely to change my behavior? No. Burned once, Twice shy.

[bleachorange]

SO funny to hear Vega (he agrees with me, his idol, the Spectre, of course) and Cortez argue whether the Mako or the Hammerhead is the better vehicle.

[kbct]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Not until every person has given their opinion, but speaking as someone who hates the endings and wants them changed, how can the poll still be considered statistically significant? I was under the impression that anything that's not done by random sampling can be treated as false.

The poll is biased. Period. However, the question is how biased. It is difficult to determine the bias of a group. One way to measure bias would be to compare previous BioWare polls of this size to public polls and see how they differ.

What we do know is the poll becomes less biased as the sample size increases. At some point there can be no bias because there will be enough votes to represent the population. Right now, we only know this poll is largest poll ever on BioWare (correct me if I'm wrong).

More telling is the extremely low percentage of people that liked the ending as-is. As the poll gets larger and larger, the required percentage from the entire population to offset that low percentage gets greater and greater. For example, 93% of the next 48,000 people would have to like the ending as-is for the new poll to even show 50% liked the ending as-is. And that is just a simple majority. What do you think the probability of that happening? It's zero.

So, even though the poll is biased, it does provide information about the population.

What makes it more telling is all the other evidence points in the same direction.

[XRelakX]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

XRelakX wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Here's something that might shock you.People pay for the game BEFORE they finish it,and whining after doesnt make BW losse money. Problem?

If whining prevents future purchases to any degree, then "BW losse money."  No problem at all.

Whining wont prevent future pruchases..it will only led to spam forums and stay like that until they release another mass effect game and all these people that say "i wont buy it again" "worst ending ever" "game is terribad" will buy it as soon its out.And even if they actually stick to what they say for each person leaving 10 more comes..so i doubt they will losse money.

I have meet many people that are like this protest,yadda yadda yadda,fix it,yadda yadda yadda,BW need to change the game,and the best line i wont buy anymore game from EA/BW...it actually ends on buying the next game..at that point emotions about the lore and such comes to mind and then if they didnt like it the whining restart and is a never ending matter.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

XRelakX wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

XRelakX wrote...

whydoyouwanttoknow wrote...

Here's something that might shock you. People buy the game BEFORE they finish it, not after.

Here's something that might shock you.People pay for the game BEFORE they finish it,and whining after doesnt make BW losse money. Problem?

If whining prevents future purchases to any degree, then "BW losse money."  No problem at all.

Whining wont prevent future pruchases..

It already has...

Game Over.  (But seriously, Bioware's gonna be fine with ME3's sales... don't worry about it and let the bashing continue.)

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 16 mars 2012 - 09:30 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

And for the record, I won't be pre-ordering or buying another Bioware title brand new... I'd want to make sure they didn't cut costs to the point of leaving out the ending of their next game (and passing it off as some kind of artistic choice).

At the very least, I'd want to know how much the full SP game is (which lately equates to what DLC they have planned).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 16 mars 2012 - 09:35 .