86 réponses à ce sujet

[Azaron Nightblade]

I seem to be getting the impression this is possible... anyone able to enlighten me as to how? (or point me to a different topic where it's covered)

[Melra]

You lose him either way I think. He may still become king even if he leaves you, but he won't be in your party.

[SarEnyaDor]

It is possible only in your dreams.



Letting Loghain live is Alistair's crisis moment, his line in the sand. Nothing good can come of it, unless you think trading Alistair for Loghain is good.

[PatT2]

Alistair won't live in the same vicinity as Loghain. Neither will I, for that matter. There's one achievement I will never get.

[fkirenicus]

Seeing as Loghain actually is a good fighter, losing Alistair isn't too bad.
I liked Alistair up to the point where he let his thirst for vengeance overshadow his duty to the Gray Wardens and his love for his elf mage companion.
Damn it, the man wants the throne solely so that he can have Loghain executed? My character decided it perhaps was best that he either marry Anora or let Anora alone rule. Even though my character trusted Anora about as far as she could throw her.

Modifié par fkirenicus, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:40 .

[Joie de Combat]

Alistair's objection isn't just to letting Loghain live, it's to making him a Grey Warden and claiming that's his punishment for his crimes. Alistair does not, and will not, see being a Grey Warden as anything but an honor and a privilege, so you and Riordan and Anora presenting this as a compromise and claiming it should make everyone happy does not compute for him. Especially since Loghain is responsible for abandoning nearly all the Wardens in Ferelden to their deaths.

[RPGmom28]

PatT2 wrote...

Alistair won't live in the same vicinity as Loghain. Neither will I, for that matter. There's one achievement I will never get.

We are on the same wavelength.  There are some things I just won't do, even with imaginary people.  Makes me feel all cruddy.  And I like Alistair's character a lot, so there is no way I would choose a story path that would involve him dying or running off in disgust- and I don't believe the ends-justify-the-means stuff.  Loghain caused the deaths of a lot of innocent people because of his plotting and planning, and he needs to come to justice.

[Hunter246]

sorry i tried this many times theres no way possible to get both in party

[Lyansidde]

Loghain, whether mad or not, seemed to be totally devoted to his country. And while misguided in his attempts to save it, he once defeated was equally devoted to the defeat of the darkspawn and loyal to his new allies. Alistair, on the other hand, let his emotions run away with him and sought vengeance when that was quite obviously not in the best interests of the country. Revenge, even just retribution, may be satisfying, but not when its impact is negative on the far more dangerous situation. In a word, I liked Alistair and was not fond of Anora, but she was far more capable to be Queen then he was, and her father more of an asset. Of course this opinion is probably the result of having lived long enough to see shades of grey and to know that perfect justice is not always expedient.

[Archonsg]

Allister if hardened, by the hero, actually turns out to be a darn good king. In one of my runs, he showed mercy where needed by sparing Anora, instituted new rights and freedom for the elves in Denerim, even openly encouraged inter-racial marriages, and though was not keen on court live still has knows enough to don the gauntlet when needed to keep himself on the throne. The speech he gave before the charge into Denerim was quite different especially in tone of voice, being more confident and determined compared to the one when he was not hardened.

Loghain though, while I might have respected the man's drive, ability and dedication to what he believed even though his hatred of the Orlesians was his justification for regicide, lost any sympathy I might have had for him when he turned to slavery and damning himself even further in the landsmeet by saying that "they were only elves..." At that point, my elven AW was like ..."okies... off with his head!" Though, even if I had not been playing as an elf, as I am again playing as a human noble with my current (4th) run, I just can’t accept anyone who would trivialize slavery. I allowed him once to live, and while he did redeem himself by taking the killing blow on the arch-demon, I can’t help but taste bile in my mouth to think that he would become a hero again in the minds of the people, perhaps more so, even after what he has done. So no, since after that one run where I allowed him to live, every other I have always chosen to execute him, slavery is where I draw the line, for once that line is crossed, what “lesser” class of citizens would be next, dwarves, human peasants, enemies during the civil war? Slavery in my book is just irredeemable.

Modifié par Archonsg, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:52 .

[Revya]

Why does everyone hardened Alistair or Liliana for that matter?

He still is a good king even if you do not hardened him. His final battle speach is really epic too

Modifié par Revya, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:25 .

[Xeyska]

His name is Alistair.

Anyway he's better hardened because he has the confidence to be a King, and to try to be a good one at that.

Modifié par Xeyska, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:16 .

[Gold Dragon]

For Female Noble Human, it's actually easier to become Queen, I take it.

[Skellimancer]

Well for my latest playthrough its either Loghain or/and Alistair that dies at the end.



Not sacrificing myself this time.

[Revya]

Xeyska wrote...

His name is Alistair.

Anyway he's better hardened because he has the confidence to be a King, and to try to be a good one at that.

But he loses alot of charm

Same goes for Liliana:lol:

Any way if he is anything like Xander (which he is actually based on) the only thing he needs is an eye patch

Modifié par Revya, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:28 .

[Serogon]

To the people who think it's purely revenge, you've got to consider what Joie de Combat said. Even ignoring the fact that you're letting him live despite his crimes, you're also letting him become a Grey Warden. Alistair sees that as a tremendous honor, and you're giving it to the man that killed the person he saw almost as his father, along with all his friends. How would you feel if some guy killed your family and friends then the President (or equivilent figure) came along and gave that person a medal?

[Joie de Combat]

More than that, even - you're asking Alistair to accept Loghain as a brother. He just can't do it. Maybe if the alternative being offered was locking Loghain away in a dungeon somewhere, he'd go for it, but making him a Warden? No way.

[Forumtroll]

You'd be surprised how often that happens in the Grey Wardens. Look at how Duncan got recruited. He killed thhe fiancee of the Commander of Grey Wardens in Feralden, for his engagement ring I might add.

[Maedryc]

Lyansidde wrote...

Loghain, whether mad or not, seemed to be totally devoted to his country. And while misguided in his attempts to save it, he once defeated was equally devoted to the defeat of the darkspawn and loyal to his new allies. Alistair, on the other hand, let his emotions run away with him and sought vengeance when that was quite obviously not in the best interests of the country. Revenge, even just retribution, may be satisfying, but not when its impact is negative on the far more dangerous situation. In a word, I liked Alistair and was not fond of Anora, but she was far more capable to be Queen then he was, and her father more of an asset. Of course this opinion is probably the result of having lived long enough to see shades of grey and to know that perfect justice is not always expedient.

Yeah, that Alistair, what an unreasonable jerk! It's not like Loghain poisoned the man who raised him, let his half-brother, his mentor and his friends die and tried multiple times to kill him and his companions ( as well as his mate ), right?
Really, I can't see why he wouldn't like the man, I'm sure anyone else would just have shaken Loghain's hand and given him a pat on the back in the same situation

BTW, Loghain is the guy that did not let his emotion guide him? Loghain? The man that let the darkspawn kill his king and almost dragged Ferelden into a civil war because he hates Orlais? Really? O.o

Modifié par Maedryc, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:50 .

[csmayer]

PatT2 wrote...

Alistair won't live in the same vicinity as Loghain. Neither will I, for that matter. There's one achievement I will never get.

You do know, that you can actually save the game and get the achievement and reloading again, that's what I did anyway.

In case you wouldn't even do that, out of principle, I'd have the greatest respect for you - truly!
I hate the guy so much ... I'd like to rip off his armor and use it as a frickin latrine bucket... or his head for that matter ... but his head already kinda is full of sh*t ... but I'm getting carried away now - sorry.

Still ... cudos, if you wouldn't consider doing it for the achievements sake!

Modifié par csmayer, 29 novembre 2009 - 03:54 .

[Serogon]

csmayer wrote...

PatT2 wrote...

Alistair won't live in the same vicinity as Loghain. Neither will I, for that matter. There's one achievement I will never get.

You do know, that you can actually save the game and get the achievement and reloading again, that's what I did anyway.

In case you wouldn't even do that, out of principle, I'd have the greatest respect for you - truly!
I hate the guy so much ... I'd like to rip off his armor and use it as a frickin latrine bucket... or his head for that matter ... but his head already kinda is full of sh*t ... but I'm getting carried away now - sorry.

Still ... cudos, if you wouldn't consider doing it for the achievements sake!

That's not even necessarily principle, that could just be, you know... not giving a **** about achievements? Unless I can bring myself to do a douchebag playthrough (having trouble with that...) I'm not going to be getting that achievement either because I just don't want to bother reloading over it. It's not worth a little badge and (on the 360) magical points that let you pretend you're cool.

[Dtelm]

Lohgain needed to die anyway. No one deserves that much mercy.



He is directly responsible for the deaths of duncan, most of the grey wardens in ferelden, and half the troops at ostagar. And indirectly for the lives of those at lothering and all subsequent, blight-related deaths.



Alistair doesn't care about why he did it, or what he thought to accomplished. He only sees him as the single greatest murderer in ferelden.

[Ederz]

I agreed with Allister and had no qualms at all in putting Lohgain down. However that was also my first playthrough up until the twist at the end.. doh! and since i rather not let loose another super evil thanks to Morrigan i plan to spare him, let him be a warden, then force him to take the final blow on the archdemon. At wich point if i had a choice i would kick his body off the tower where you fight the archdemon and go about my way with a smile on my face.

[DariusKalera]

Alistair was a noob.



Even hardened, I cannot see him as being a very good king. A likable ruler yes, but being liked does not mean that a person is capable.



The smart thing would have been to allow Loghain to become a Warden and then after the battle, if he survived, have him executed or imprisoned or whatever.



If he dies in the fight then bam, you have a ready made martyr that gave his life for Fereldan and a new Warden recruiting poster. Him being a hero beforehand is just icing on the cake. Granted, all the other stuff he did would have to be swept under the rug. Which, would have been relatively easy to accomplish since the only people that know what all hes done are the nobles at the Landsmeet.

[Dtelm]

That makes sense, except, alistair wouldnt roll with that because he doesnt want him to be remembered as a hero.



Personally, I dont mind a demon child on the loose, I can kill it later.

I wanted the glory of the kill, and to still be alive to rule as king