86 réponses à ce sujet

[Fieryspirit]

Forumtroll wrote...

You'd be surprised how often that happens in the Grey Wardens. Look at how Duncan got recruited. He killed thhe fiancee of the Commander of Grey Wardens in Feralden, for his engagement ring I might add.

[citation needed] I don't remember reading this. O.o Where was it from? A codex entry?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Dtelm wrote...
Personally, I dont mind a demon child on the loose, I can kill it later.

Indeed. You already killed it once, and this when it had an army at its back too. Besides, the child will be part dragon, and we all know that every dragon's days are numbered in this game. Some Grey Warden adventurer will always show up and kill it in the name of loot and XP. 

As to Duncan's backstory, I doubt it's in the codex. A novel is much more likely. 

[Alhanalem]

Alistair won't live in the same vicinity as Loghain. Neither will I, for that matter. There's one achievement I will never get.

You realize that you can save your game before, get the achievement, and load it back right? Achievements are saved to your profile, they aren't undone if you load an earlier save.

[Lumenadducere]

Fieryspirit wrote...

Forumtroll wrote...

You'd be surprised how often that happens in the Grey Wardens. Look at how Duncan got recruited. He killed thhe fiancee of the Commander of Grey Wardens in Feralden, for his engagement ring I might add.

[citation needed] I don't remember reading this. O.o Where was it from? A codex entry?

No, it's from the novel Dragon Age: The Calling by David Gaider.  Worth the read.

[stevej713]

I could not imagine ever allowing Loghain to live. After all the crimes he had committed, my PC (despite being the apex of all that is good) swung his sword at Loghain's head so hard that it simply turned to dust.

[asaiasai]

I want to be very clear here i am not calling anyone out on this topic, just going to try and be rational concerning this issue.

I am on playthrough 5 right now and as i am an achievement **** i have to have all the different outcomes and thier coresponding achievments. When it comes to whether Loghain lives or dies on ,my first run through i went will Allisters suggestion and exicuted him right there. Then later than evening after the conversation with Rhordian (the seinor grey warden from Orlais) i kind of went oops.  Seriously there are only THREE people in the entire country able to put a stop to this Blight and since there would be no guarantee, except excellent writing, that Loghain would even survive the joining. I would be lining up folks around the corner handing out the kool aid like Jonestowne revisited, anything to bolster the numbers from 3 grey wardens to more. In truth i take a very pragmatic look at the situation, it is not about justice, revenge, hell it is not even about what is right, it is about stopping the blight period. Was Loghain a ****? You betcha, but the simple fact still remains there are only 3 grey wardens in all of Feraldin and you throw away an opportunity to add one more? In my thinking that makes you no better that Loghain,  it makes you worse than Loghain because YOU KNOW what is out there, it is not a guess for you, you know. Shooting yourself in the foot because you can not handle the fact that he might actually redeem himself by taking the final blow, hell when you take him Loghain eagerly accepts it, he really had Feraldin's best interest at heart, can the same claim be made towards Allister, his stomping off hissy fit pretty much removes him from the friends of Feraldin list. To abandon his post because he can not or will not understand the situation, act in the best interest of Feraldin, makes him lower than Loghain, even considering the grief Loghain caused you. i really wish there was a **** slap option you could use on Allister to bring him back in line. 

In the end when you consider what you had to do to get the allies together to fight the blight your hands are not sparkly either. I have left a trail of blood from one end of Feraldin to the other, and would glady do it again, because it is not about me, it is not about Allister, it is not about who is king anywhere it is about the blight. Every decision i was forced to make i justified by invoking the blight. Allister and i have come this far, done so much, infulenced so many things that were not part of our perview, and all of it was done in justification of ending the blight. So when you look at it all, big picture mind you,as much as you may hate Loghain,  Allister really let you down on that one there especially after all you went through to even get there.

Anyway as i said i am not taking anyone to task, i am just possibly covering a few things that some folks might have not considered, beleive me i wanted his head on a pike too. I just was willing to wait until after he did not need it anymore.

Asai

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Lyansidde wrote...

Loghain, whether mad or not, seemed to be totally devoted to his country. And while misguided in his attempts to save it, he once defeated was equally devoted to the defeat of the darkspawn and loyal to his new allies. Alistair, on the other hand, let his emotions run away with him and sought vengeance when that was quite obviously not in the best interests of the country.  [/quote]

WRONG!!!
Executing Loghain would be in the best interest of the country.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:34 .

[Joie de Combat]

asaiasai wrote...

 In truth i take a very pragmatic look at the situation, it is not about justice, revenge, hell it is not even about what is right, it is about stopping the blight period. Was Loghain a ****? You betcha, but the simple fact still remains there are only 3 grey wardens in all of Feraldin and you throw away an opportunity to add one more? In my thinking that makes you no better that Loghain,  it makes you worse than Loghain because YOU KNOW what is out there, it is not a guess for you, you know.

But Alistair *does not know this.* Neither does your character. Only Riordan knows about it, and it doesn't occur to him that the other two might not until Alistair reacts so badly to making Loghain a Warden.

If Alistair *knew* that the archdemon was immortal unless killed by a Grey Warden, maybe he'd react differently, especially if he knew that it would also kill the Warden in question. But he doesn't know. All he knows is that Loghain screwed the Wardens over six ways from Sunday and now you and Riordan and Anora want to reward him for it by making him a Warden, requiring Alistair to accept the man who nearly killed everyone he ever cared about as a blood brother.

[The Angry One]

Will novel fanboys ever learn to keep it out of discussions of purely in game events? Yeesh. Some of us don't care for Gaider's little power trips, thanks.

Modifié par The Angry One, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[Zenthar Aseth]

Gaider's little power trips?

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

Will novel fanboys ever learn to keep it out of discussions of purely in game events? Yeesh. Some of us don't care for Gaider's little power trips, thanks.

Gaider is the guy who was the lead writer for the game, and created the world. He is the guy to go to if you want to know motivations and character of characters.

So yes, he just created the books to be able to have power trips on these forums.

On another note, I have not read the novels.

[The Angry One]

In the game, Gaider is the lead writer. But he's clearly vetted by other writers and BioWare producers.

In the books, he has more free reign and it shows. Most of the sillier inconsistant stuff is in the books. So yeah I don't want to have to constantly hear about this stuff when it has little to no bearing on the game.

[Walina]

Joie de Combat wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

 In truth i take a very pragmatic look at the situation, it is not about justice, revenge, hell it is not even about what is right, it is about stopping the blight period. Was Loghain a ****? You betcha, but the simple fact still remains there are only 3 grey wardens in all of Feraldin and you throw away an opportunity to add one more? In my thinking that makes you no better that Loghain,  it makes you worse than Loghain because YOU KNOW what is out there, it is not a guess for you, you know.

But Alistair *does not know this.* Neither does your character. Only Riordan knows about it, and it doesn't occur to him that the other two might not until Alistair reacts so badly to making Loghain a Warden.

If Alistair *knew* that the archdemon was immortal unless killed by a Grey Warden, maybe he'd react differently, especially if he knew that it would also kill the Warden in question. But he doesn't know. All he knows is that Loghain screwed the Wardens over six ways from Sunday and now you and Riordan and Anora want to reward him for it by making him a Warden, requiring Alistair to accept the man who nearly killed everyone he ever cared about as a blood brother.

+10

[Raxtoren]

Let see, Loghain abandoned Duncan (alistairs father figure) and Cailian Alistairs brother to a certain doom, then tried to assassinate you and him along the whole adventure.
I can see were the anger comes from.

While you could argue that Loghain and Maric were great heroes, clearly Loghain wasnt a good person in DAO, and Maric? sleeping with atleast one servant, while not some "evil" doing, it shows character of a man perhaps greatly overexagratted.

Modifié par Raxtoren, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:26 .

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

In the game, Gaider is the lead writer. But he's clearly vetted by other writers and BioWare producers.
In the books, he has more free reign and it shows. Most of the sillier inconsistant stuff is in the books. So yeah I don't want to have to constantly hear about this stuff when it has little to no bearing on the game.

Yes, I know that there are more writers than Gaider, but if you only get to ask one person, it is him.

Mark Darrah was the one watching out for inconsistencies in the game. At least that is what I think, might be wrong. And from him in a interview:

J: So for the most part is that information people will get through playing the game, or will they need to check out the books as well?

M: There is a lot of information that is presented within the game, as you click on books and things you get codex entries that tell you additional back-story if you are interested in that, but even that just touches the surface of what exists. So some stuff will be further explored within the novels, within the pen and paper games. It’s also just stuff that we will be presenting in future downloadable content and future games as well. 

Found here www.thegamereviews.com/articlenav-1546-page-3.html

So, they do have actual bearing. The books are just as real of an authority on the characters as the game.

Keep ignoring them if you want to though, if they contradict what you think of characters, but don't say that they are irrelevant.

[The Angry One]

Herr Uhl wrote...

M: There is a lot of information that is presented within the game, as you click on books and things you get codex entries that tell you additional back-story if you are interested in that, but even that just touches the surface of what exists. So some stuff will be further explored within the novels, within the pen and paper games. It’s also just stuff that we will be presenting in future downloadable content and future games as well.

Translation: Buy our supplimentary material! We like money!

So, they do have actual bearing. The books are just as real of an authority on the characters as the game.

Keep ignoring them if you want to though, if they contradict what you think of characters, but don't say that they are irrelevant.

They contradict what the game and it's world establishes, and I for one and sick and tired of hearing about them in threads to discuss GAME lore.
There's a thread to discuss the books you know.

Modifié par The Angry One, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:37 .

[Melra]

I heard the books are great. I think we should talk more about them, if someone doesn't like it, well: Too bad!

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

The Angry One wrote...

In the game, Gaider is the lead writer. But he's clearly vetted by other writers and BioWare producers.
In the books, he has more free reign and it shows. Most of the sillier inconsistant stuff is in the books. So yeah I don't want to have to constantly hear about this stuff when it has little to no bearing on the game.

That is your opinion and your entitled to it but there is no need to go bashing other peoples opinions just because they clash with yours. Especially as there is things in the game that could allow people to see Loghain's mindset.

There is perfectly good reasons why some people would have their characters let Loghain live and it doesn't even have to come from some sort of 'grey/evil' character.

Even a 'goody two shoes' could give reason to spare him as they don't see the need to spill blood when a more diplomatic choice can be given.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Edit of double post: For example, one of my mages is going to have the mindset of preferring diplomacy over violence and so she will naturally when the time comes agree with Riordan's idea despite all the stuff Loghain will have put the group through. It is also the reason why Zevran will still be alive at the end.

Now naturally that will possibly lead to Anora demanding Alastair be executed but I am hoping there is the option to persuade her to allow him to relinquish his claims to the throne of him and any offspring he has and go into exile. He only has at most 29 years left to live anyway seeing as he is a Grey Warden. Yes it means Alastair will be pissed off with my character a fair bit, but at least justice will be done to some extent.

Whilst it maybe an honor and privelege to Alastair to be a Grey Warden to some it would be a curse due to it having the obvious limited life expectancy.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:51 .

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...
They contradict what the game and it's world establishes, and I for one and sick and tired of hearing about them in threads to discuss GAME lore.
There's a thread to discuss the books you know.

I know that there is a thread to discuss the books. The codex contradicts itself on purpose, does that make the whole codex moot?

They chose to create a world first, then a game in that would fit that world, not the other way around.

Where in this particular thread is the info that contradicts the game lore btw?

[The Angry One]

You're missing the point, this is a forum for game lore and I'm sick of having it always degenerate into comparisons with the books and oh no how could Loghain possibly side with Howe for he is teh HERO and Alistair is the son of an elf we've never heard of and bla bla bla bla.
It's unecesarry and annoying.

Edit: Codex *fluff* contradicts itself. Like you say, purposefully so. Stuff from the books contradicts the games, even though the books are supposed to be "ho ho ho 1st hand accurate", or are just irrelevant to it.
For example Duncan's past. Completely irrelevant to this discussion as Alistair wouldn't be aware of absolutely everything Duncan did.

Modifié par The Angry One, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:51 .

[Herr Uhl]

They want to understand his reasons, not just put a big friggin staple with BAD GUY on his face. The lore in the game lacks, so they go to another source. See difference in villains between Darth Maul (unexplained) and Darth Vader (friggin main character).

I thought that the forums were meant to enable that, but it appears that I am wrong.

*edit following your edit: Yes, Alastair knows not what Duncan did in the past, thus it is irrelevant if you want to see it from his point of view. Just as saying that the elves trusting Zathrian would be bad. This I agree on.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 29 novembre 2009 - 12:56 .

[Walina]

Azaron Nightblade wrote...

I seem to be getting the impression this is possible... anyone able to enlighten me as to how? (or point me to a different topic where it's covered)

You can't have both, go curse Bioware for that.

Modifié par Walina, 29 novembre 2009 - 01:30 .

[TcheQ]

I've played through twice and I still choose Loghain.



He's such a better choice as leader.



Besides, you should listen to your superior Grey Warden i.e. Riordan



He bears no hatred towards Loghain, even though he was tortured.



It's choices like these that make Dragon Age epic btw.



Do you do the right thing by your friends, by your country, or by your duty to the Grey Wardens?

[Walina]

1) Loghain betrayed king Cailan and Grey wardens

2) Loghain claim in all Ferelden that you're THE traitor

3) Loghain send assassins to kill you

4) Loghain poisoned arl Eamon

5) Loghain wanted to use Blood mages (hi, Ulfred?)

6) Loghain put in slavery (again) elves for money

7) Loghain denied Hower actions

8) Loghain tried to accuse you for the kidnapping of his daughter

9) Loghain made a civil war instead fighting the Blight

10) Loghain put a reward on your head.



Can you tell me please again why you like this guy ? Unless, you're retarded or love badass ?