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[Tirigon]

Drake-Shepard wrote...
I am in AWE

I can't believe people are saying the ''alternative'' theory is made up...it makes the most sense and fills in every single plot hole

And gives the finger to us all.

[IST]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

DEMIKLY wrote...

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

Isn't it sad that the ending was bad to the point that people have to create theories of it all being in Shepards head? And even that was what they were planning somehow I would think it would be worse seeing as how it'd mean it was meaningless as just something all in his head and not putting it in the full game if they did indeed plan it is just stupid. But I doubt this was all just some plan of theirs.

Have you actually played the end?


Not dissing you mate, but it's pretty obvious... To ignore the multitude of evidence and the fact single player DLC is coming is a sadder state of mind in my opinion..

Indoc Theory fills all the holes left, is hinted at/proved by the final scene of the good ending and is far better to run with than the current indoctrinated tales woven by Harbingers PR department.

People don't give Bioware enough credit, they are better than that. 

I have played the ending and I can't see it as anything other than speculation. I mean yes there are plot holes, but that doesn't mean they did those on purpose. It seems more likely to be lazy writing than some big plan they had. And again if this was some plan of theirs then that's rather stupid. I mean if they really made the ending as some indoctrination which would make the entire ending pointless and expect people to buy their DLC to see the 'true ending'. Hell, even if they gave it away for free it would still mean that they're giving us a fake ending and expecting us to wait and download new content to see the 'true ending'.

Bro.. the burden of proof is definately with the IT crowd (Indoc Theory that is) - and the overwhelming examples pointing towards proving IT correct mount as high as the peaks of Everest my friend.. that last minute reprieve from the execution has come, the shape of freedom however is yet to be revealed.

At first I dismissed IT as pure 'wishfull thinking speculation' too (before actually thinking about it and watching endings again/reading dev twitter feeds/proof videos etc) - now I am sure it's the intended path for the game through it's confirmed singleplayer DLC.  I do however think that they might have underestimated the pure rage that has come, and might have over-estimated the intelligence of their market in doing such a bold move... what might have been intended to be picked up on quickly and universially, has been adopted by splinter groups mostly but is definately gathering speed.

Good times. 

[devSin]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

Isn't it sad that the ending was bad to the point that people have to create theories of it all being in Shepards head?

The reality of it is pretty hard to fathom.

I mean, what story do you sit and create and decide that the brilliant conclusion is to invoke God and save the day with the push of a button?

How could something like that ever come from BioWare? That isn't a conclusion to the trilogy. It's a cop-out.

How could anyone inside BioWare be happy with that (have they ever played any of their games?), much less publicly claim that most fans would find it satisfying?

I don't believe in this interpretation of the story, but I very much wish I did.

Modifié par devSin, 17 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[IST]

Then I saw (Tali's) face, Now I'm a believer..

[Drake-Shepard]

DEMIKLY wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

most of the indoc theory believers say the end is genius because they believe an ending dlc is coming to give us closure.

I mean it was promised to us, wasn;t it?

If however this is the true end (still beleive the indoc theory is correct interpretation) then it simply a brilliantly executed COP-OUT. and i won't come on this forum again i will just deactivate everything

edit.

Casey hudson's last statement was so cryptic I am now 50/50

I'm still 100% - Even based on the fact that there is definately DLC coming for singleplayer, and if it's not Ending DLC then the Hivemind will literally explode supernova, destroying the interweb and rendering our electronics dead by proxy.

I am still also 100% on the indoc theory. And that it is brilliantly executed.

However if there are no plans to finish the ending (after he defeats the indoctrination attempt) then it is a brilliantly executed cop-out.

An ending and closure was promised. There was said to be no A,B,C ending. However indoc theory means there is only A, B, ending;

A, indoc wins, B you defeat indoc and we just assume you completed the mission after you pick yourself up from the rubble??

But BW definition of closure might be that you get to see what happens to the races (quarian geth krogan etc)...the 2nd half of me3 is closure. This would be valid to an extent, but i really hope this is not what their cryptic statements are getting at.

I want my ending cutscene and approval from the council...as cliché and repetitive as it is. But do we really need it? The cutscene would simply be you using the beam and opening the citadel and then activating the 'weapon'

You may be able to tell i am very mixed about this...

[Balrogen4]

BIOWARE YOU CRAZY MOTHER-HUGERS, YOU'VE DONE IT AGAIN!
*Shakes Hudsons hand*
5 Stars
11/10
GOTY

[cyborg2501]

DEMIKLY wrote...

Then I saw (Tali's) face, Now I'm a believer..

I was thinking about that... Like how could they not show her actual face in game. It's such a tease, but it's not like it would have been that hard to build into the current script. It's like the pic is tiding people over until real satisfaction comes. I bet we get to see her actual face in the ending.

[dreman9999]

[rissoles]

I think that you are all trying really hard to give Bioware a way out of the quandry you think they are in. But, it's done, the end has come and gone
"Veni, Vidi, Vici, et mortuus est..." Shepard

(but I would welcome more )

[Han Shot First]

I think the notion that what we got isn't the full and complete ending is just wishful thinking on the part of fans who are still in denial about how disappointing the conclusion of the trilogy was. No gaming company is going to release a game that doesn't have an ending, and then include the actual ending in DLC that you have to pay for. That would be a bad business practice and they'd be rightfully skewered for it both by fans and the press.

The endings we got are unfortunately what actually happened. If we are lucky we'll get DLC that adds to them or corrects them out of fanservice, so that we get a satisfying end to the series. Otherwise the endings are what they are. And if we do get that DLC, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

[IST]

Han Shot First wrote...

I think the notion that what we got isn't the full and complete ending is just wishful thinking on the part of fans who are still in denial about how disappointing the conclusion of the trilogy was. No gaming company is going to release a game that doesn't have an ending, and then include the actual ending in DLC that you have to pay for. That would be a bad business practice and they'd be rightfully skewered for it both by fans and the press.

The endings we got are unfortunately what actually happened. If we are lucky we'll get DLC that adds to them or corrects them out of fanservice, so that we get a satisfying end to the series. Otherwise the endings are what they are. And if we do get that DLC, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

You are missing the point bro....
This game had definite endings.. and when viewed from the the right way (as an Indoctrinated Vision), are GREAT endings when taken for what they are.. that is the point.  
They are however, only great if the follow up comes.. which I am 99% of myself at this time after recent twitter updates/leaks (although you can never back twitter from devs 100%).  

This isn't just 'wishful thinking' from a dreamer, there is mounting proof in-game and out that points directly to this being a vision (which is a great way to end the game in context) and increasing evidence that the continuation of the ending/endgame will be represented in upcoming DLC.

Why else would you be repeatedly be asked to keep your saves???

If you thought those endings were 'the end' then you know what I mean.. the DLC to follow would be called "The Hunger Games - Husk of an Earth edition".. not to mention future games in the series.. maybe an RTS where you manage food distribution to multiple species, and try not to poison them with the wrong types of food.. "Farmville - Armada Style" lol.

I don't know how - after seeing the multitude of evidence showing it's an indoctrination - anyone could totally dismiss the theory... it's like some people really want it all to be over and prefer that train of thought to the far more positive (and correct IMO) angle of Indoctrination Theory and a future release of upcoming DLC.

I would also love to see an "Alpha Omega" DLC where you help Aria T'Loak take back Omega.. along with merc team mates.. but that's another story.. 

Modifié par DEMIKLY, 17 mars 2012 - 06:55 .

[matchboxmatt]

Gonna be great when everyone who sold the game during the outrage of the ending buys it back to experience the DLC.

[Foulpancake]

I too came up with this theory, think about it, Bioware wanted US to be Shepard, and what did Shepard do? He/She rallied the fleets...what have we done? Rallied the fleets. They wanted us to feel real despair in a situation we cannot win. And i'm sorry but the people who LIKED the endings as they are, well you're Cerberus, you accept what is given to you because you refuse the question your reality.

I want to believe this theory. I want to believe Bioware has just pulled off the most masterful deception in gaming history...

But after the post about asking for fan feedback so "Devs and fans can work together"...i'm not convinced anymore...but i want to be

[OdanUrr]

DEMIKLY wrote...

You are missing the point bro....
This game had definite endings.. and when viewed from the the right way (as an Indoctrinated Vision), are GREAT endings when taken for what they are.. that is the point.  
They are however, only great if the follow up comes.. which I am 99% of myself at this time after recent twitter updates/leaks (although you can never back twitter from devs 100%).  

This isn't just 'wishful thinking' from a dreamer, there is mounting proof in-game and out that points directly to this being a vision (which is a great way to end the game in context) and increasing evidence that the continuation of the ending/endgame will be represented in upcoming DLC.

Why else would you be repeatedly be asked to keep your saves???

If you thought those endings were 'the end' then you know what I mean.. the DLC to follow would be called "The Hunger Games - Husk of an Earth edition".. not to mention future games in the series.. maybe an RTS where you manage food distribution to multiple species, and try not to poison them with the wrong types of food.. "Farmville - Armada Style" lol.

I don't know how - after seeing the multitude of evidence showing it's an indoctrination - anyone could totally dismiss the theory... it's like some people really want it all to be over and prefer that train of thought to the far more positive (and correct IMO) angle of Indoctrination Theory and a future release of upcoming DLC.

I would also love to see an "Alpha Omega" DLC where you help Aria T'Loak take back Omega.. along with merc team mates.. but that's another story.. 

"You can prove anything you want by coldly logical reason -- if you pick the proper postulates."

So, while you may believe that indoctrination is the right way to view the ending and that there is mounting proof in-game that this is the case, I respectfully posit that that is merely your opinion and not fact, and my own opinion on the subject is that "indoctrination" is just people grasping at straws and trying to give Bioware more credit than they deserve on this matter. Furthermore, I believe indoctrination is downright depressing and should not, by any means, be considered the only acceptable outcome to the franchise.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 17 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[Foulpancake]

OdanUrr wrote...

DEMIKLY wrote...

You are missing the point bro....
This game had definite endings.. and when viewed from the the right way (as an Indoctrinated Vision), are GREAT endings when taken for what they are.. that is the point.  
They are however, only great if the follow up comes.. which I am 99% of myself at this time after recent twitter updates/leaks (although you can never back twitter from devs 100%).  

This isn't just 'wishful thinking' from a dreamer, there is mounting proof in-game and out that points directly to this being a vision (which is a great way to end the game in context) and increasing evidence that the continuation of the ending/endgame will be represented in upcoming DLC.

Why else would you be repeatedly be asked to keep your saves???

If you thought those endings were 'the end' then you know what I mean.. the DLC to follow would be called "The Hunger Games - Husk of an Earth edition".. not to mention future games in the series.. maybe an RTS where you manage food distribution to multiple species, and try not to poison them with the wrong types of food.. "Farmville - Armada Style" lol.

I don't know how - after seeing the multitude of evidence showing it's an indoctrination - anyone could totally dismiss the theory... it's like some people really want it all to be over and prefer that train of thought to the far more positive (and correct IMO) angle of Indoctrination Theory and a future release of upcoming DLC.

I would also love to see an "Alpha Omega" DLC where you help Aria T'Loak take back Omega.. along with merc team mates.. but that's another story.. 

"You can prove anything you want by coldly logical reason -- if you pick the proper postulates."

So, while you may believe that indoctrination is the right way to view the ending and that there is mounting proof in-game that this is the case, I respectfully posit that that is merely your opinion and not fact, and my own opinion on the subject is that "indoctrination" is just people grasping at straws and trying to give Bioware more credit than they deserve on this matter. Furthermore, I believe indoctrination is downright depressing and should not, by any means, be considered the only acceptable outcome to the franchise.

Why do people who dislike the indoc theory reply as such. When we back the theory we don't back it as being the "Final end, Shepard failed, woe is me" We say the Theory ONLY works if DLC is around the corner to show us the true ending. We don't believe we have actually seen the "end" yet

[OdanUrr]

Foulpancake wrote...

Why do people who dislike the indoc theory reply as such. When we back the theory we don't back it as being the "Final end, Shepard failed, woe is me" We say the Theory ONLY works if DLC is around the corner to show us the true ending. We don't believe we have actually seen the "end" yet

This is one of the reasons I have a beef with people advocating IT, because they want a DLC that will explain IT as the only possible ending. I don't mind IT being a possible ending, but I do mind it becoming the only one. Mass Effect has always been about choice, and IT takes choice away from the player.

Then there's the people who believe themselves superior to everyone else because they've "realized" Bioware is "pulling an Inception on us." Sure, you can argue that. I simply believe they didn't put as much thought into the endings as you'd like to think or as you'd like us to think.

Lastly, people defending IT claim it explains plotholes and while it does away with some of them by claiming "it was all a dream" (a pretty lame excuse, to my mind) it most definitely doesn't explain all of them (unfortunately, I cannot expand on this further without spoiling things).

Guys, IT is one possible outcome to be sure but it is not the only one. And as long as people keep advocating IT is the only way to go, I'll be here reminding you all that that need not be the case. If you were given the chance to write your own ending, are you seriously telling me that all of you would write "Indoctrination"? Is that the best you can come up with?

I know for a fact that's not the case.

[Sashimi_taco]

I am not going to get my hopes up for an alternate ending that was planned all along. Sales have been effected for ME3, they would have told us by now to save the sales.

[Canned Bullets]

Bioware's PR team would be good at politics. The fact that they acknowledged the outcry over the dissatisfying shows that we're too big to ignore (I say we since I hate the endings and the majority hates the endings).

[IST]

OdanUrr wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

Why do people who dislike the indoc theory reply as such. When we back the theory we don't back it as being the "Final end, Shepard failed, woe is me" We say the Theory ONLY works if DLC is around the corner to show us the true ending. We don't believe we have actually seen the "end" yet

This is one of the reasons I have a beef with people advocating IT, because they want a DLC that will explain IT as the only possible ending. I don't mind IT being a possible ending, but I do mind it becoming the only one. Mass Effect has always been about choice, and IT takes choice away from the player.

Then there's the people who believe themselves superior to everyone else because they've "realized" Bioware is "pulling an Inception on us." Sure, you can argue that. I simply believe they didn't put as much thought into the endings as you'd like to think or as you'd like us to think.

Lastly, people defending IT claim it explains plotholes and while it does away with some of them by claiming "it was all a dream" (a pretty lame excuse, to my mind) it most definitely doesn't explain all of them (unfortunately, I cannot expand on this further without spoiling things).

Guys, IT is one possible outcome to be sure but it is not the only one. And as long as people keep advocating IT is the only way to go, I'll be here reminding you all that that need not be the case. If you were given the chance to write your own ending, are you seriously telling me that all of you would write "Indoctrination"? Is that the best you can come up with?

I know for a fact that's not the case.

Oh course everyone would want their own personalized ending.. but working with what we have been given (A/B/C - Rainbow Colours ending), it is the only direction that satisfies logic in the current state of things.  Out of all the endings in the world, of course everyone would pick different stuff.. but we are working with set parameters (the current endings) and set evidence (the mountain of pointers that indicate IT is correct).  

You kind of have the wrong end of the stick bro - you see the IT crowd in the wrong light... maybe... an indoctrinated light... (I couldn't resist). 

[Foulpancake]

OdanUrr wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

Why do people who dislike the indoc theory reply as such. When we back the theory we don't back it as being the "Final end, Shepard failed, woe is me" We say the Theory ONLY works if DLC is around the corner to show us the true ending. We don't believe we have actually seen the "end" yet

This is one of the reasons I have a beef with people advocating IT, because they want a DLC that will explain IT as the only possible ending. I don't mind IT being a possible ending, but I do mind it becoming the only one. Mass Effect has always been about choice, and IT takes choice away from the player.

Then there's the people who believe themselves superior to everyone else because they've "realized" Bioware is "pulling an Inception on us." Sure, you can argue that. I simply believe they didn't put as much thought into the endings as you'd like to think or as you'd like us to think.

Lastly, people defending IT claim it explains plotholes and while it does away with some of them by claiming "it was all a dream" (a pretty lame excuse, to my mind) it most definitely doesn't explain all of them (unfortunately, I cannot expand on this further without spoiling things).

Guys, IT is one possible outcome to be sure but it is not the only one. And as long as people keep advocating IT is the only way to go, I'll be here reminding you all that that need not be the case. If you were given the chance to write your own ending, are you seriously telling me that all of you would write "Indoctrination"? Is that the best you can come up with?

I know for a fact that's not the case.

And who's to say that should IT be correct that you would not get those original endings as choices anyhow? Nothing needs to be deleted, only the option to have our choices MATTER be added. Keep your 3 flavors of vanilla if you want them. If i had a Paragon shepard with no LI, i just might willingly choose Blue or Green and be happy with the outcome as it is now. But as it turns out i was fighting for someone...

[IST]

Foulpancake wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

Why do people who dislike the indoc theory reply as such. When we back the theory we don't back it as being the "Final end, Shepard failed, woe is me" We say the Theory ONLY works if DLC is around the corner to show us the true ending. We don't believe we have actually seen the "end" yet

This is one of the reasons I have a beef with people advocating IT, because they want a DLC that will explain IT as the only possible ending. I don't mind IT being a possible ending, but I do mind it becoming the only one. Mass Effect has always been about choice, and IT takes choice away from the player.

Then there's the people who believe themselves superior to everyone else because they've "realized" Bioware is "pulling an Inception on us." Sure, you can argue that. I simply believe they didn't put as much thought into the endings as you'd like to think or as you'd like us to think.

Lastly, people defending IT claim it explains plotholes and while it does away with some of them by claiming "it was all a dream" (a pretty lame excuse, to my mind) it most definitely doesn't explain all of them (unfortunately, I cannot expand on this further without spoiling things).

Guys, IT is one possible outcome to be sure but it is not the only one. And as long as people keep advocating IT is the only way to go, I'll be here reminding you all that that need not be the case. If you were given the chance to write your own ending, are you seriously telling me that all of you would write "Indoctrination"? Is that the best you can come up with?

I know for a fact that's not the case.

And who's to say that should IT be correct that you would not get those original endings as choices anyhow? Nothing needs to be deleted, only the option to have our choices MATTER be added. Keep your 3 flavors of vanilla if you want them. If i had a Paragon shepard with no LI, i just might willingly choose Blue or Green and be happy with the outcome as it is now. But as it turns out i was fighting for someone...

EXACTLY!!

IT makes it possible for endings to occur that are truly directed by our past decisions.. some people think that the IT kills any chance of their 'true' ending happening.. but this is completely incorrect.

If IT is indeed true, then whatever BW have cooked up for DLC will be once again under 'your control'.
I also predict a true face reveal of a certain Rannoch Resident to be included in the DLC..  take note..

[Wikal]

Mind = Blown

The video makes a lot of sense. The only issue with it is that maybe we're extrapolating too much from rushed writing. I know the ME3 writers aren't bad- the rest of the game is superbly written, but to able to plan it to this extent? They'd have to be extremely sinister...

I hope they're sinister

[OdanUrr]

Foulpancake wrote...

And who's to say that should IT be correct that you would not get those original endings as choices anyhow? Nothing needs to be deleted, only the option to have our choices MATTER be added. Keep your 3 flavors of vanilla if you want them. If i had a Paragon shepard with no LI, i just might willingly choose Blue or Green and be happy with the outcome as it is now. But as it turns out i was fighting for someone...

1) I dont know. What part of my post made you think that I was saying IT obliterated those endings? I just said that people are trying to use IT to explain those endings, mostly because they're having a hard time accepting them.

2) Read 1. Also comes off as a bit condescending.

3) So?

[IST]

OdanUrr wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

And who's to say that should IT be correct that you would not get those original endings as choices anyhow? Nothing needs to be deleted, only the option to have our choices MATTER be added. Keep your 3 flavors of vanilla if you want them. If i had a Paragon shepard with no LI, i just might willingly choose Blue or Green and be happy with the outcome as it is now. But as it turns out i was fighting for someone...

1) I dont know. What part of my post made you think that I was saying IT obliterated those endings? I just said that people are trying to use IT to explain those endings, mostly because they're having a hard time accepting them.

2) Read 1. Also comes off as a bit condescending.

3) So?

Again, wrong end of the stick.

I invite you into the blue hue of the Indoctrination... the light is warm, and so is the Ryncol.

[Welder0]

I suspected a few days ago we were being played.

Any proof? Nope.

But consider the free PR Bioware got out of this. More than an actual alien invasion would have gotten...