People, take a moment to read this, please:
http://social.biowar...scussion/20730/
Extremely Well Played Bioware *real clapping*
Débuté par
IST
, mars 16 2012 04:46
Retour en haut
#202
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 03:31
LetMeW1n
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It could be, or not. Regardless ME3 had all the signs of being rushed, more so towards the end. Maybe this kind of ending was made to give them a rather brilliant way out, or it could fail miserably if the execs don't feel it'll be profitable
#203
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 03:39
LetMeW1n
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^ lol nicely written, but still as inconclusive as the Indoc theory itself. Still, a good enough writer can easily turn it a few ways, and it just happens that Indoc theory seems the most workable one.
#204
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 03:44
OdanUrr
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LetMeW1n wrote...
^ lol nicely written, but still as inconclusive as the Indoc theory itself. Still, a good enough writer can easily turn it a few ways, and it just happens that Indoc theory seems the most workable one.
You read it all through?
That was fast.
EDIT: I'm not looking to prove anything here, I'm just saying that there's more than one way to look at things. And, in some cases, some of the evidence in support of IT is really stretching it.
Modifié par OdanUrr, 20 mars 2012 - 03:45 .
#205
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 04:17
LetMeW1n
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You spend a few too many lines on personal comments, lol. And I basically knew what you were talking about. Didn't need to carefully read through your entire thought process and all that sarcasm
Modifié par LetMeW1n, 20 mars 2012 - 04:18 .
#206
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 04:22
OdanUrr
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LetMeW1n wrote...
You spend a few too many lines on personal comments, lol. And I basically knew what you were talking about. Didn't need to carefully read through your entire thought process and all that sarcasm
Personal comments?
#207
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 04:40
MystEU
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The real selling point to me besides the explanations themselves (some interpretations may be right, other parts of it may not be) is the hints that the BioWare tweets have been dropping over this. It almost sounds like they WANT to tell us there is something else coming regarding the ending that should be tying things up. I won't quote them here but they were linked a page or two back from a YouTube video. Some of those just scream "we want more people to see the ending so we can announce what's coming after" basically. They all but say it.
IT may not be exactly right. Maybe elements of it are true to the direction BioWare is going. You can wonder if it's planned or a last ditch effort to clean up the mess left from this ending, but one way or another (whether it was intended from the start or a change of plans) something is going to get done to tie things up. It just feels obvious because of the hints that have been dropped on social networks and elsewhere.
I find the rebuttal to be well thought out, if not a little cynical, but it may even be right. That doesn't mean that the developers aren't doing/planning on doing something about it regardless. I think that much has been made clear so far. Besides, saving humanity is all about hope after all!
Seriously, though. Some of the evidence is a stretch sure. The theory/intepretation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it fits at least reasonably well regardless of some of the arguments that some people have brought up to support or "prove" it. Those aren't perfectly solid bits of evidence, but it's still a fairly solid piece of the puzzle to fit in compared to the "literal" ending. Hell, even if BW didn't put out ending DLC or a continuation, that interpretation alone (since the ending itself is someone open to interpretation anyway IMO) gives me a better outlook on the game and playing through again. Even if they didn't fix it. I have my own understanding now.
But they probably are going to add to it. I can't wait!
IT may not be exactly right. Maybe elements of it are true to the direction BioWare is going. You can wonder if it's planned or a last ditch effort to clean up the mess left from this ending, but one way or another (whether it was intended from the start or a change of plans) something is going to get done to tie things up. It just feels obvious because of the hints that have been dropped on social networks and elsewhere.
I find the rebuttal to be well thought out, if not a little cynical, but it may even be right. That doesn't mean that the developers aren't doing/planning on doing something about it regardless. I think that much has been made clear so far. Besides, saving humanity is all about hope after all!
Seriously, though. Some of the evidence is a stretch sure. The theory/intepretation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it fits at least reasonably well regardless of some of the arguments that some people have brought up to support or "prove" it. Those aren't perfectly solid bits of evidence, but it's still a fairly solid piece of the puzzle to fit in compared to the "literal" ending. Hell, even if BW didn't put out ending DLC or a continuation, that interpretation alone (since the ending itself is someone open to interpretation anyway IMO) gives me a better outlook on the game and playing through again. Even if they didn't fix it. I have my own understanding now.
But they probably are going to add to it. I can't wait!
Modifié par MystEU, 20 mars 2012 - 04:44 .
#208
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 05:07
morganix
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I have a story to tell. I once went to an ice cream shop to get my favorite dessert. Every couple weeks they would change the recipe, and the two I had previously were the best treats I've ever had. I show up and asked for the special, to which the host replies "You're in for a treat! It's our best cone yet. There's even something special for you at the bottom," Really? I ask. What is it? He goes on to tell me "It's pure chocolate, nothing like the other cones you've had elsewhere with those empty holes at the bottom which are just filled by the melted remains of what came before."
Eager to try this novel new cone I quickly handed him my money. Soon I had this great treat in my hands. Practically drooling I took my first bite and I was pleasantly surprised by the taste. It was refreshingly new and flavorful. I was so immersed in the experience that I ate it all in one sitting, but as I approached the end, I kept wondering... where is the chocolate? I got further and further and then... holes. It was just like those cones from the other stores. Full of holes and melted Icecream. I turned to my server and said: Excuse me sir, you promised chocolate at the end but none was there!
"We worked hard on our recipe" he said. "It's our best one yet." he said. "Some customers may not be happy with the ending, but we put a lot of hard work into it and the reviews from restaurant critics were fantastic."
But what about my chocolate I asked? "Oh that, it was just a joke. We're gonna be selling pure milk chocolate next week. You can come in and buy some then."
But I already paid for it I said. "No, you paid for the icecream. The best ice-cream cone yet. Come back later and buy some chocolate if you want it so badly."
--Yeah, I'd still be pissed.
Eager to try this novel new cone I quickly handed him my money. Soon I had this great treat in my hands. Practically drooling I took my first bite and I was pleasantly surprised by the taste. It was refreshingly new and flavorful. I was so immersed in the experience that I ate it all in one sitting, but as I approached the end, I kept wondering... where is the chocolate? I got further and further and then... holes. It was just like those cones from the other stores. Full of holes and melted Icecream. I turned to my server and said: Excuse me sir, you promised chocolate at the end but none was there!
"We worked hard on our recipe" he said. "It's our best one yet." he said. "Some customers may not be happy with the ending, but we put a lot of hard work into it and the reviews from restaurant critics were fantastic."
But what about my chocolate I asked? "Oh that, it was just a joke. We're gonna be selling pure milk chocolate next week. You can come in and buy some then."
But I already paid for it I said. "No, you paid for the icecream. The best ice-cream cone yet. Come back later and buy some chocolate if you want it so badly."
--Yeah, I'd still be pissed.
Modifié par morganix, 20 mars 2012 - 05:10 .
#209
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 05:08
IST
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I like your post OdanUrr - and you are right about some of the evidence being a stretch, but some of it the evidence for IT is quite blatant IMO - there is a wide arc of convincing arguments for and against the IT, but I think it weighs heavier on the Theory side.
A couple things I know for sure:
1) I really want DLC that continues the fight.. and a change of armor (the last lot got a toasty, thanks Harbinger..)
2) Omega DLC would be sweet as all buggery also, BUT, not until endgame DLC has dropped, otherwise the wave of hate will consume and tarnish the release of this piece of the adventure.
3) IMO the Indoctrination Theory is the most logical way to go about moving forward, that requires no retcon action or changes to the current game.. it can simply continue from "The Breath".
The only point of contention will be how low-EMS players will bridge the gap into the DLC.. since they effectively aren't given the option to take a breath.. but we can work that out over some Earl Grey later on.. in the meantime, just a reveal that the DLC is on the horizon would make A BUNCH of people worldwide happier campers.
A couple things I know for sure:
1) I really want DLC that continues the fight.. and a change of armor (the last lot got a toasty, thanks Harbinger..)
2) Omega DLC would be sweet as all buggery also, BUT, not until endgame DLC has dropped, otherwise the wave of hate will consume and tarnish the release of this piece of the adventure.
3) IMO the Indoctrination Theory is the most logical way to go about moving forward, that requires no retcon action or changes to the current game.. it can simply continue from "The Breath".
The only point of contention will be how low-EMS players will bridge the gap into the DLC.. since they effectively aren't given the option to take a breath.. but we can work that out over some Earl Grey later on.. in the meantime, just a reveal that the DLC is on the horizon would make A BUNCH of people worldwide happier campers.
Modifié par DEMIKLY, 20 mars 2012 - 05:09 .
#210
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 05:49
MystEU
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I believe that it isn't the high EMS that will give you "the breath" story-wise, but rather it's the high EMS that gives you the sneak preview or hint of what is to come. Assume it happens regardless but you only get that look-ahead if you do well.
As for paying for it... well, providing that an endgame DLC will have enough substance to warrant the cost (at least a few hours of play plus goodies), I have no problem at all paying for it. They aren't going to make us pay for a 30 minute cutscene and/or boss. It would have to have substance to it.
As for paying for it... well, providing that an endgame DLC will have enough substance to warrant the cost (at least a few hours of play plus goodies), I have no problem at all paying for it. They aren't going to make us pay for a 30 minute cutscene and/or boss. It would have to have substance to it.
Modifié par MystEU, 20 mars 2012 - 07:10 .
#211
Posté 20 mars 2012 - 11:30
IST
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I like how you think MystEU. Either way works for me.
In other Indoctrinated news - THIS ARTICLE is brilliant, have a read.
In other Indoctrinated news - THIS ARTICLE is brilliant, have a read.
Modifié par DEMIKLY, 20 mars 2012 - 11:31 .
#212
Guest_FallTooDovahkiin_*
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:11
Guest_FallTooDovahkiin_*
Guest_FallTooDovahkiin_*
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DEMIKLY wrote...
Took me an hour or so to realise what was what, but when when it hit me... I clapped.
Looking forward to it.. and I must say - the deliberate outcry provication was extremely well played, risky.. but well played.
Yep. I admit, it was well played after having to realize what was going on.
1st stage: Confusion.
2nd stage: Anger.
3nd stage: Emotional rage.
4th stage: Understandment.
#213
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:17
raymonddhj
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I agree, definitely a masterful work by Bioware. All of the anger is because people just can't connect the dots.
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
#214
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:30
MelfinaofOutlawStar
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raymonddhj wrote...
I agree, definitely a masterful work by Bioware. All of the anger is because people just can't connect the dots.
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
Wow, thanks for reminding my why the ending was terrible.
#215
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:45
raymonddhj
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MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
raymonddhj wrote...
I agree, definitely a masterful work by Bioware. All of the anger is because people just can't connect the dots.
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
Wow, thanks for reminding my why the ending was terrible.
We all have our own opinions, but I do not think you get my point. Clearly its all indoctination. The catalboy is an extension of Harbinger in our heads from the first 10 minutes until the last.
#216
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 12:58
ragnorok87
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MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
raymonddhj wrote...
I agree, definitely a masterful work by Bioware. All of the anger is because people just can't connect the dots.
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
Wow, thanks for reminding my why the ending was terrible.
yeah no reminders please. wait i dont need to be reminded because the ending was so terrible that it haunts my every waking monent and every night i sleep. want to find the ending even more terrible... just listen to this while doing the ending to mass effect 3 and prepare to cry even harder then you did before.
#217
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:00
MelfinaofOutlawStar
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raymonddhj wrote...
MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
raymonddhj wrote...
I agree, definitely a masterful work by Bioware. All of the anger is because people just can't connect the dots.
Here is another for those who are not paying attention.
Notice that the boy when you are leavinging earth rendering is identicle to something you come across later on.
boy
http://www.google.co...1t:429,r:1,s:15
entity later on
http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:8,s:0
Wow, thanks for reminding my why the ending was terrible.
We all have our own opinions, but I do not think you get my point. Clearly its all indoctination. The catalboy is an extension of Harbinger in our heads from the first 10 minutes until the last.
The Indoctrination Theory is for those who can't accept that the writers dropped the ball. They tried to do something clever, they failed.
#218
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:09
Bluko
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You guys really need to accept the fact that these are the real endings. I know that's difficult given how utterly crappy they are, but it's the cold hard truth.
1. Not everyone has an internet connection to their console.
While certainly most people do, omitting the real ending from the game would probably have people even more pissed. I will grant EA/Bioware are pretty deceptive so I suppose they could be trying to pull such a stunt on us. But if so it's been done in very poor taste. I mean really it's gotten so bad it's hurting game sales now. Even if true they'll never admit it or do it again.
2. Why would they waste time creating a fake ending?
Seriously think about it. You really think they created CGI cinematics for a fake ending? That stuff costs them big money and takes weeks to make. Even if they do sell DLC for money it's still a risky and potential unnecessary loss. Again this is a really big gamble to take. I can't see anyone in their right mind doing such a thing. It's far more likely they just screwed up.
3. They would have caved by now if there was a real ending in the vault.
Considering how much flak they are taking over this I'm pretty sure they would have at least come out and said the "true" ending is coming or they are starting to work on it. You something to cool the fires. They haven't which means they are trying to buy time to figure out how to fix the whole mess. It's not because they have some "special" marketting plan. They've already done plenty of that what with the Space Edition etc.
Just admit it. The endings sucks and were rushed.
ME3 has run off with your wallet presumably to sleep with someone else. He/She isn't going to come back and tell you that they were just testing your commitment. Also if you believe that story knowing that money is missing from your wallet you are a hopeless fool. May the Biotic God have mercy on your poor soul.
1. Not everyone has an internet connection to their console.
While certainly most people do, omitting the real ending from the game would probably have people even more pissed. I will grant EA/Bioware are pretty deceptive so I suppose they could be trying to pull such a stunt on us. But if so it's been done in very poor taste. I mean really it's gotten so bad it's hurting game sales now. Even if true they'll never admit it or do it again.
2. Why would they waste time creating a fake ending?
Seriously think about it. You really think they created CGI cinematics for a fake ending? That stuff costs them big money and takes weeks to make. Even if they do sell DLC for money it's still a risky and potential unnecessary loss. Again this is a really big gamble to take. I can't see anyone in their right mind doing such a thing. It's far more likely they just screwed up.
3. They would have caved by now if there was a real ending in the vault.
Considering how much flak they are taking over this I'm pretty sure they would have at least come out and said the "true" ending is coming or they are starting to work on it. You something to cool the fires. They haven't which means they are trying to buy time to figure out how to fix the whole mess. It's not because they have some "special" marketting plan. They've already done plenty of that what with the Space Edition etc.
Just admit it. The endings sucks and were rushed.
ME3 has run off with your wallet presumably to sleep with someone else. He/She isn't going to come back and tell you that they were just testing your commitment. Also if you believe that story knowing that money is missing from your wallet you are a hopeless fool. May the Biotic God have mercy on your poor soul.
#219
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:13
The Executioner
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Right they should be rewarded for the worst ending in a AAA title ever in the history of video games. You can waste your money on ME3 if you want, i'm trading my copy in and getting some of my money back.
#220
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:17
MystEU
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MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
The Indoctrination Theory is for those who can't accept that the writers dropped the ball. They tried to do something clever, they failed.
That is oversimplifying it. BioWare made this ending interpretable and that "theory" is one such interpretation. Frankly, the evidence supporting it is debatable in some areas. It doesn't have to be 100% truth because, well, there is no way to know until we see what comes next. What evidence is important, however, is the evidence that points towards some of the supposed plot holes and areas of question as intentional. That is hope in the theory, not the fact that the community decided to fill in the blanks on the details with its own explanation. At the end of the day, we can agree that the ending was crafted deliberately to make room for something else and get people thinking. That's exactly what happened.
All you're doing is comparing an optimistic look to absolute armchair developer cynicism. There's more to it than saying "the indoctrination theory explains everything so it must be true!" The details are what matters and it gives good reason to believe that the ending is deliberately opening the door for something that will explain or continue it. I like the theory but the main thing I got out of it is that I believe BioWare will probably put out more and redeem themselves. We can't prove whether it was planned or a reaction to fan outburst but it is looking like there is something up their sleeves. That is enough for me.
#221
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:26
ragnorok87
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Bluko wrote...
You guys really need to accept the fact that these are the real endings. I know that's difficult given how utterly crappy they are, but it's the cold hard truth.
1. Not everyone has an internet connection to their console.
While certainly most people do, omitting the real ending from the game would probably have people even more pissed. I will grant EA/Bioware are pretty deceptive so I suppose they could be trying to pull such a stunt on us. But if so it's been done in very poor taste. I mean really it's gotten so bad it's hurting game sales now. Even if true they'll never admit it or do it again.
2. Why would they waste time creating a fake ending?
Seriously think about it. You really think they created CGI cinematics for a fake ending? That stuff costs them big money and takes weeks to make. Even if they do sell DLC for money it's still a risky and potential unnecessary loss. Again this is a really big gamble to take. I can't see anyone in their right mind doing such a thing. It's far more likely they just screwed up.
3. They would have caved by now if there was a real ending in the vault.
Considering how much flak they are taking over this I'm pretty sure they would have at least come out and said the "true" ending is coming or they are starting to work on it. You something to cool the fires. They haven't which means they are trying to buy time to figure out how to fix the whole mess. It's not because they have some "special" marketting plan. They've already done plenty of that what with the Space Edition etc.
Just admit it. The endings sucks and were rushed.
ME3 has run off with your wallet presumably to sleep with someone else. He/She isn't going to come back and tell you that they were just testing your commitment. Also if you believe that story knowing that money is missing from your wallet you are a hopeless fool. May the Biotic God have mercy on your poor soul.
well i could shoot down your internet connection point easily. make a disc with bonus content. i have seen this done millions of times even as recently as elder scrolls 4 oblivion even gta4 as well. even more recently. it doesnt have to be online only and dont use the excuse of producing discs are too expensive because they are extremely cheap to make and ive watched tons on the manufacture of them and they are not very expensive. as for number 2 and 3 you have good points for sure. but they might have created a fake ending to produce outrage so when they release a ending that mass effect demands and deserves everyone will buy it ( i myself am willing to pay up to 1000 dollars for a decent ending) as for your 3rd point i dont know what to say, it really makes no sense not to say something. i agree with you. the reason they havent said something is because they have nothing planned and the endings suck period and they know it. they are hoping to sucker millions more dollars out of us and if i dont get an alterate decenent true ending i will boyccott all bioware games including ea games as well. i will also encourage and entice/convince others as well. if the endings arnt fixed this company as lost all faith and is not worthy of a single penny from me or a nano second more of my time.
#222
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:28
ragnorok87
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The Executioner wrote...
Right they should be rewarded for the worst ending in a AAA title ever in the history of video games. You can waste your money on ME3 if you want, i'm trading my copy in and getting some of my money back.
well mill hold onto my copy which i bought on day one for a while longer and if nothings gona happen i am trading in all of my mass effect games including any bioware content for something that isnt so epically dissappointing.
#223
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:30
Konane117
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Modifié par Konane117, 21 mars 2012 - 01:55 .
#224
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:34
Kelwing
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I was a little mad over the endings, Untill I played again and payed alot closer attention to all things going everywhere in game. It's all in the details.
In the end I now get it. Just going to sit here and wait patiently and get the rest of my Shepard's prepared.
In the end I now get it. Just going to sit here and wait patiently and get the rest of my Shepard's prepared.
#225
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 01:57
OdanUrr
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Bluko wrote...
You guys really need to accept the fact that these are the real endings. I know that's difficult given how utterly crappy they are, but it's the cold hard truth.
1. Not everyone has an internet connection to their console.
While certainly most people do, omitting the real ending from the game would probably have people even more pissed. I will grant EA/Bioware are pretty deceptive so I suppose they could be trying to pull such a stunt on us. But if so it's been done in very poor taste. I mean really it's gotten so bad it's hurting game sales now. Even if true they'll never admit it or do it again.
2. Why would they waste time creating a fake ending?
Seriously think about it. You really think they created CGI cinematics for a fake ending? That stuff costs them big money and takes weeks to make. Even if they do sell DLC for money it's still a risky and potential unnecessary loss. Again this is a really big gamble to take. I can't see anyone in their right mind doing such a thing. It's far more likely they just screwed up.
3. They would have caved by now if there was a real ending in the vault.
Considering how much flak they are taking over this I'm pretty sure they would have at least come out and said the "true" ending is coming or they are starting to work on it. You something to cool the fires. They haven't which means they are trying to buy time to figure out how to fix the whole mess. It's not because they have some "special" marketting plan. They've already done plenty of that what with the Space Edition etc.
Just admit it. The endings sucks and were rushed.
ME3 has run off with your wallet presumably to sleep with someone else. He/She isn't going to come back and tell you that they were just testing your commitment. Also if you believe that story knowing that money is missing from your wallet you are a hopeless fool. May the Biotic God have mercy on your poor soul.
There's something to points 1 and 2, but mostly 2. It's a big risk, and EA's not one for taking big risks.
