278 réponses à ce sujet

[Apollo-XL5]

The thick plastic bubble is the idiots that want to take bioware apart because they don't like the endings. Now I liked the ending despite it not making sense. But you can't just dismiss a claim just because you don't believe it yourself. But until bioware come out and publicly say that it isn't then I will believe that it is.

[Deflagratio]

SUBTERRANEANguy wrote...

It's like, if you're not on board with the indoctrination theory, then you are not a true fan of the series. That's what these people who can't take a visceral and gritty ending want to force upon us- THEIR brand of indoctrination. As I said before, there are obviously plot holes in the endings which will be filled by the inevitable dlc. The indoctrination theory is complete tosh anyway- with films such as Fight Club and The Sixth Sense doing distorted perceived realities years ago. At least with the endings the writers gave us has opened up a metaphysical debate whether these people realize it or not. I feel sorry for them. I have a wife, kids, and the mass effect trilogy was great, but not life changing. These people do realize that they never actually had TRUE free-will choices anyway, as they were playing a pre- programmed computer code? Most of the so- called "choices" we had as gamers never even considered that "Grey area" which is intrinsic to slot of human moral judgements. Great entertainment, though!

I don't think it's possible to make any less sense than that.


Anyway, most people aren't mad about the game ending "Badly" for Shepard, or even Earth/Galactic Life. They're mad because, for all intents and purposes, the game doesn't end. It doesn't wrap anything up in either the Face Value endings, or the Indoctrination ending. I've said before, I'd be fine with knowing all advanced Galactic life was wiped out, despite the best efforts of the galactic community.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 16 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[rorako]

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

[Deflagratio]

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

Flying walruses pooping taffy makes more sense than Joker on a Jungle planet. And that's not an opinion, that's fact.

[Juniper Mucius]

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

[rockman0]

Deflagratio wrote...

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

Flying walruses pooping taffy makes more sense than Joker on a Jungle planet. And that's not an opinion, that's fact.

I wouldn't eat pooped taffy. 

[Leafs43]

Also how does nobody every find where the catalyst is?

I mean he is on the outside of the citadel. You'd be able to see his little area out of a window. Has no one in millions of years using the citadel ever said to themselves, "Hey I wanna check that little part of the citadel out. Seems like there is some important stuff right there,"

Modifié par Leafs43, 16 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[Deflagratio]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

[Apollo-XL5]

The whole ending in the citadel was just happening in shepards mind, Anderson represents the part of his mind that is fighting the indoctrination while the IM represents the reapers trying to seduce Shepard with the control option. Plus why would the destroy option ( with Anderson attacking the conduit ) be the renegade option and the control ( IM ) be the paragon option unless the reapers wanted to make Shepard see things their way. Shepard chooses to control the reapers, let them live and he is indoctrinated fully. But if he chooses to still destroy them than the indoctrination has failed and he wakes up back in London in the concrete debris.

[SimonM72]

Deflagratio wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

Why?,

You don't reveal the punchline until all of your captive audience have heard the setting-up of the joke.

[savionen]

Deflagratio wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

Honestly, I'm sure they're trying to be sure they make the right choice. Committing to something, and then changing to something else, would be a bad idea.

[Deflagratio]

Deflagratio wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

Leafs43 wrote...

Also how does nobody every find where the catalyst is?

I
mean he is on the outside of the citadel. You'd be able to see his
little area out of a window. Has no one in millions of years using the
citadel ever said to themselves, "Hey I wanna check that little part of
the citadel out. Seems like there is some important stuff right
there,"

I think we're supposed to assume that this is the previously inaccessible "Heart" of the citadel. Though, since you're apparently scant meters (I'd wadger closer to a half K) away from the Crucible's dock point, the "Heart" of the Citadel is probably more like "Some part of the Presidium Tower nobody seemed to notice makes the same noises Reapers do".

A Bigger question is, if the Catalyst controls the Citadel, and the Catalyst controls the Reapers.... Why did Mass Effect 1 exist? Why didn't the Catalyst just usher in the Extinction Cycle immedietly by taking control of the Citadel and opening the Darkspace Relay?

[zwanguy]

AdeptusAstartes wrote...

I think I would rather it be that Bioware's writers started the ball rolling on one of the greatest ways to end one of the best sci-fi stories of this generation, rather than they got to the end, decided this was good enough and rolled with it.

One route assumes the audience is smart enough to pick up on their context clues and figure it out.
The other route hopes the audience is too stupid to notice the staggering number of logical disconnects and glaring plot holes.

^^ This

[CrisisOne]

Deflagratio wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

Leafs43 wrote...

Also how does nobody every find where the catalyst is?

I
mean he is on the outside of the citadel. You'd be able to see his
little area out of a window. Has no one in millions of years using the
citadel ever said to themselves, "Hey I wanna check that little part of
the citadel out. Seems like there is some important stuff right
there,"

I think we're supposed to assume that this is the previously inaccessible "Heart" of the citadel. Though, since you're apparently scant meters (I'd wadger closer to a half K) away from the Crucible's dock point, the "Heart" of the Citadel is probably more like "Some part of the Presidium Tower nobody seemed to notice makes the same noises Reapers do".

A Bigger question is, if the Catalyst controls the Citadel, and the Catalyst controls the Reapers.... Why did Mass Effect 1 exist? Why didn't the Catalyst just usher in the Extinction Cycle immedietly by taking control of the Citadel and opening the Darkspace Relay?

I was thinking the Catalyst just lived within the citadel, since he didn't actually mention he was in control of it. I mean why bother allowing the arms to open at all at the end?

[SimonM72]

Talking about the Citadel, where the hell are all the keepers?. I thought the Citadel couldn't function without them. I know in The Art of Mass Effect Universe there is concept art of a Citadel sub-level that the keepers frequent (that was dropped from the game), but I remember the keeper permanently pottering about near Normandy's DB:#4, and I can't remember exactly but think there is one down on Presidium Commons levels... where are the rest?, In previous Mass Effects you couldn't move without tripping over the bloody creatures.

[Deflagratio]

CrisisOne wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

All I know, from the tweeting, is that BW is up to something.

Apparently they're waiting for "More people to experience the ending."

Seems like one hell of a mistake if you ask me.

Leafs43 wrote...

Also how does nobody every find where the catalyst is?

I
mean he is on the outside of the citadel. You'd be able to see his
little area out of a window. Has no one in millions of years using the
citadel ever said to themselves, "Hey I wanna check that little part of
the citadel out. Seems like there is some important stuff right
there,"

I think we're supposed to assume that this is the previously inaccessible "Heart" of the citadel. Though, since you're apparently scant meters (I'd wadger closer to a half K) away from the Crucible's dock point, the "Heart" of the Citadel is probably more like "Some part of the Presidium Tower nobody seemed to notice makes the same noises Reapers do".

A Bigger question is, if the Catalyst controls the Citadel, and the Catalyst controls the Reapers.... Why did Mass Effect 1 exist? Why didn't the Catalyst just usher in the Extinction Cycle immedietly by taking control of the Citadel and opening the Darkspace Relay?

I was thinking the Catalyst just lived within the citadel, since he didn't actually mention he was in control of it. I mean why bother allowing the arms to open at all at the end?

We could probably argue plotholes in the last 15minutes of Mass Effect 3 until the end of time.

And in a game that (Usually) goes out of it's way to make sense, that's just another huge (Albeit circumstantial) piece of evidence that the Final Moments of Mass Effect 3 were truly Harbinger attempting to indoctrinate Shepard.

[Mavkiel]

Deflagratio wrote...

A Bigger question is, if the Catalyst controls the Citadel, and the Catalyst controls the Reapers.... Why did Mass Effect 1 exist? Why didn't the Catalyst just usher in the Extinction Cycle immedietly by taking control of the Citadel and opening the Darkspace Relay?

Answer is obvious. Its a union job. Can't have a person taking over a hard working reapers job.

[SUBTERRANEANguy]

Reply to DEFLAGRTIO: um.... You are the one that makes no sense. And the cleansing solution is an exact TIMED event doofus. They were only preparing for it in mass effect 1.

[Apollo-XL5]

Moving off topic but I am playing me3 right now and don't the gestation pods look just like the eggs from the alien films.

[Deflagratio]

SUBTERRANEANguy wrote...

Reply to DEFLAGRTIO: um.... You are the one that makes no sense. And the cleansing solution is an exact TIMED event doofus. They were only preparing for it in mass effect 1.

It's not timed. That's why Sovereign was not in Darkspace with Harbinger and the rest of the Reapers. He was the Vanguard of the invasion. He was left to assess the level of galactic advancement. My assumption is that he originally intended to open the Darkspace relay at the citadel when the Geth overthrew the Quarians three centuries before the events of Mass Effect 1, but because of the Prothean intervention, Sovereign was unable to command the Keepers to activate the Darkspace relay.

[Privatr16]

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

I agree but shock and the mind using escapism to keep him alive makes more sense than that. Once again I am basing this on real experience and seeing what my fellows have gone through while we were deployed.

[Deflagratio]

Privatr16 wrote...

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

I agree but shock and the mind using escapism to keep him alive makes more sense than that. Once again I am basing this on real experience and seeing what my fellows have gone through while we were deployed.

I don't know. Shock and sheer force of will are powerful when harnessed, but I don't think it's enough to survive an unshielded atmospheric reentry. That is to say nothing about the 900 Million tons of desintegrating space station following you down, which would impact at Terminal Velocity with the force of about a billion billion tons of TNT.

No, As far as I'm concerned, Shepard never made it to the Conduit.

[GunMoth]

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

qft. 
That and I feel that many people don't look at any of the hard evidence provided, let alone fully understand the indoctrination theory.

1) The codex on indoctrination talking about seeing aparitions. 
2) The Catalyst's voice being composed of both Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer. 
3) The TIM pillar "control" choice object in a UE viewer having the title "Badending"
4) Enhanced images of Shepard's eyes when he/she takes control of the reapers + the synthesis endings show the blue circles that are in both TIMs eyes and are similar to Saren's from ME1. 
5) The perfect destroy ending showing Shepard alive / breathing on what looks like Earth.

While I don't think the Indoctrination Theory is "PERFECT" or isn't without holes, I also think that there are too many variables hinting at something else. Whether that's indoctrination - who knows? But it makes the most sense so far. 

EDIT: The only thing that people keep bringing up is the Prothean VI. However, Shepard isn't fully indoctrinated. The process of becoming indoctrinated and actually being are different.  

Modifié par GunMoth, 16 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[Privatr16]

Deflagratio wrote...

Privatr16 wrote...

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

I agree but shock and the mind using escapism to keep him alive makes more sense than that. Once again I am basing this on real experience and seeing what my fellows have gone through while we were deployed.

I don't know. Shock and sheer force of will are powerful when harnessed, but I don't think it's enough to survive an unshielded atmospheric reentry. That is to say nothing about the 900 Million tons of desintegrating space station following you down, which would impact at Terminal Velocity with the force of about a billion billion tons of TNT.

No, As far as I'm concerned, Shepard never made it to the Conduit.

I mean he was in shock from the moment he got blasted by the reaper. I agree he couldn't survive a terminal velocity fall without aid of some kind of mass effect field which I think you would have screwed up by the destroy ending.

Modifié par Privatr16, 16 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[Deflagratio]

Privatr16 wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

Privatr16 wrote...

rorako wrote...

Indoctrination Theory makes more sense then Joker on a jungle planet, imo.

I agree but shock and the mind using escapism to keep him alive makes more sense than that. Once again I am basing this on real experience and seeing what my fellows have gone through while we were deployed.

I don't know. Shock and sheer force of will are powerful when harnessed, but I don't think it's enough to survive an unshielded atmospheric reentry. That is to say nothing about the 900 Million tons of desintegrating space station following you down, which would impact at Terminal Velocity with the force of about a billion billion tons of TNT.

No, As far as I'm concerned, Shepard never made it to the Conduit.

I mean he was in shock from the moment he got blasted by the reaper.

Oh, and just tripping balls? That's plausible too.

I still cling to the indoctrination theory though, it just makes too much sense to me. It's not that I believe Shepard is indoctrinated, it's that I believe Harbinger is attempting to exert control immedietly after the botched attempt to hit the London Conduit. What happens after that is  you essentially playing Shepard's "Will".

Going back to Mass Effect 2, we know that Harbinger has a very specific desire to preserve Shepard. These are Mile-long starships capable of glassing an entire continent in under an hour, but even at nearly point-blank range, Harbinger is very careful to not immedietly scorch the entire city, despite the danger even one soldier accessing the Citadel is. I believe it's because he knows that as long as Shepard~ The Idea, not the Person~ Survives, the current galactic extinction cycle will fail. Every organic, or at least an obscene percentage will fight to the death, and the Harvest will fail. It's easy to forget that the Reapers are not attempting to wipe out organics in the traditional sense. They certainly could do it, but they have an interest sufficient enough to be severely crippled in a conflict, to not bring their full destructive capability to bare. At least, that's the inferred motivation for Harbinger's obsession with Shepard.


Or maybe I'm just trying to make sense of a nonsensicle ending.