278 réponses à ce sujet

[Kanon777]

Thornquist wrote...

Web Access Card wrote...

I don't buy into the indoctrination theory, but I find it admirable in a tragic sort of way; it's basically an elaborate coping mechanism, and I think it's kind of ingenius.

Exactly, people believe what they want to believe.

People are in denial, thats it.

Trying to debate them is pointless - its like a conspiracy theory.

I am not in denial, i am not angry at the endings being literal (i've defended the literal endings for a long time on these boards, i actually like them just like that). Stop lumping anyone who disagrees with you as some desperate lunatic who cant see the truth

[Juniper Mucius]

Thornquist wrote...

Web Access Card wrote...

I don't buy into the indoctrination theory, but I find it admirable in a tragic sort of way; it's basically an elaborate coping mechanism, and I think it's kind of ingenius.

Exactly, people believe what they want to believe.

People are in denial, thats it.

Trying to debate them is pointless - its like a conspiracy theory.

It isn't like a conspiracy theory, or "denial".  You do understand the ending makes no sense, and it's that way BECAUSE BioWare wanted to create fan speculation, right?  So this isn't coping or denial or a conspiracy theory (I don't even know how it could be a conspiracy theory, and I don't believe people understand what a conspiracy theory is), it's speculation incited by BioWare's deliberate goal to create speculation.

[Deltateam Elcor]

Capeo wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassEffected555 you are the one grabbing.at straws....you say we have no evidence that's explained but we have Shep waking up and the fact he's breathing in outerspace....the voice on the radio even says "nobody made it" to the conduit....your evidence is the citadels atmosphere is still up....when does it say that? wheres your evidence? You have none. Zero. That's grasping at straws if I've ever seen it. Not that it matters if.the atmosphere is up or down, due to the fact he's on the exterior of the station

What are you talking about?  The Citadel always has atmosphere.  Where do you keep getting this "in space" crap?  The Citadel is full of mass effect generators that keep the atmosphere.  Shep is never in space in the ending. 

Then explain why we had to put on our helmets in ME1 to get to the council chambers?

Only the wards have Atmosphere and only up to 7 metres, its in the codex itself.

[Jaze55]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassEffected555 you are the one grabbing.at straws....you say we have no evidence that's explained but we have Shep waking up and the fact he's breathing in outerspace....the voice on the radio even says "nobody made it" to the conduit....your evidence is the citadels atmosphere is still up....when does it say that? wheres your evidence? You have none. Zero. That's grasping at straws if I've ever seen it. Not that it matters if.the atmosphere is up or down, due to the fact he's on the exterior of the station

NO ONE DID MAKE IT YET AT THE POINT YOU TOOL. Shep was on the floor NOT INSIDE THE BEAM. THE chatter was right, did anyone make it to the beam yet? NO NO ONE HAD .... YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. 

Also since Shep was breathing with no helmet I am pretty sure there was atmoshphere, and all you are going to say is ... "but he was never on the citadel because I want to believe so badly my indoc theory is true" 

Jesus you are a tool. I am never coming back to this thread again. Done here. I think I am done with the movement too, I can't be assoiciated with delusional people I'm sorry. 

[ArkkAngel007]

tobito113 wrote...

Makatak wrote...


Instead, we're confronted with, "THE ENDING MUST BE INDOCTRINATION. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN THESE THINGS. LOOK AT WHAT I FOUND. IS BIOWARE NOT LAZY?! HEADCANNON."

Strawman, the vast majority of debate over the IT is nothing like youre trying to make us to be. We just see something that fixes many pieces of the puzzle and actually makes alot of sense, no one is claiming absolute truth and bashing people who disagree with anti-IT...

Actually, there are quite a few people who are running around carrying the theory in that manner.  Maybe in not quite an absurd manner, but the point is there.

But these types of threads, from both sides, are starting to really show the absolute worst of this community.

[Aganerral]

My quick take - Indoctrination is an interesting and viable theory...but even if that's the case, the ending is STILL lousy. It means that everything we see isn't what happens. So what happened to the characters and Armies that I spent 100+ hours across 3 games pulling together to fight the reapers? Did they win? Lose? I'm OK with Shepard not making it out of the final battle, but I would like to know how the battle turned out.

[Makatak]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Makatak wrote...


Instead, we're confronted with, "THE ENDING MUST BE INDOCTRINATION. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN THESE THINGS. LOOK AT WHAT I FOUND. IS BIOWARE NOT LAZY?! HEADCANNON."

Strawman, the vast majority of debate over the IT is nothing like youre trying to make us to be. We just see something that fixes many pieces of the puzzle and actually makes alot of sense, no one is claiming absolute truth and bashing people who disagree with anti-IT...

Actually, there are quite a few people who are running around carrying the theory in that manner.  Maybe in not quite an absurd manner, but the point is there.

But these types of threads, from both sides, are starting to really show the absolute worst of this community.

I was taking artistic liberty on the portrayal of those threads.

[rockman0]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassEffected555 you are the one grabbing.at straws....you say we have no evidence that's explained but we have Shep waking up and the fact he's breathing in outerspace....the voice on the radio even says "nobody made it" to the conduit....your evidence is the citadels atmosphere is still up....when does it say that? wheres your evidence? You have none. Zero. That's grasping at straws if I've ever seen it. Not that it matters if.the atmosphere is up or down, due to the fact he's on the exterior of the station

NO ONE DID MAKE IT YET AT THE POINT YOU TOOL. Shep was on the floor NOT INSIDE THE BEAM. THE chatter was right, did anyone make it to the beam yet? NO NO ONE HAD .... YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. 

Also since Shep was breathing with no helmet I am pretty sure there was atmoshphere, and all you are going to say is ... "but he was never on the citadel because I want to believe so badly my indoc theory is true" 

Jesus you are a tool. I am never coming back to this thread again. Done here. I think I am done with the movement too, I can't be assoiciated with delusional people I'm sorry. 

Wow...just wow. Some people are subtle with their insults, but you really just threw it out there for the world to see, huh?

[Warhawk7137]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Makatak wrote...


Instead, we're confronted with, "THE ENDING MUST BE INDOCTRINATION. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN THESE THINGS. LOOK AT WHAT I FOUND. IS BIOWARE NOT LAZY?! HEADCANNON."

Strawman, the vast majority of debate over the IT is nothing like youre trying to make us to be. We just see something that fixes many pieces of the puzzle and actually makes alot of sense, no one is claiming absolute truth and bashing people who disagree with anti-IT...

Actually, there are quite a few people who are running around carrying the theory in that manner.  Maybe in not quite an absurd manner, but the point is there.

But these types of threads, from both sides, are starting to really show the absolute worst of this community.

And there are quite a few people whose every post on the subject involves some use of the term "conspiracy theory" and references to 9/11.

Modifié par Warhawk7137, 16 mars 2012 - 08:17 .

[Privatr16]

I support the hallucination theory/maybe a coma theory not the indoctrination one. I also support the retcon and rewrite option or just something that give closure and makes sense. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would just ruin it worst than it already is.

[blooregard]

when one gets stuck with a horrible event (ME3 ending) and the "official" response to it is "we had alot of cool ideas but we cut those out because you didn't need them" the developers leave their fans with plot craters big enough to fit 5 more games in the fans need something to find that would make it make sense...the indoc theory is the best one I've seen is it true? Maybe maybe not Is it better then the current ending? **** yes it is. Would the game be much better if the ending wasn't "speculative closure"? Yes it would

[Deltateam Elcor]

Privatr16 wrote...

I support the hallucination theory/maybe a coma theory not the indoctrination one. I also support the retcon and rewrite option or just something that give closure and makes sense. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would just ruin it worst than it already is.

How so? it perfectly fits in with the lore.

[Kanon777]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Makatak wrote...


Instead, we're confronted with, "THE ENDING MUST BE INDOCTRINATION. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN THESE THINGS. LOOK AT WHAT I FOUND. IS BIOWARE NOT LAZY?! HEADCANNON."

Strawman, the vast majority of debate over the IT is nothing like youre trying to make us to be. We just see something that fixes many pieces of the puzzle and actually makes alot of sense, no one is claiming absolute truth and bashing people who disagree with anti-IT...

Actually, there are quite a few people who are running around carrying the theory in that manner.  Maybe in not quite an absurd manner, but the point is there.

But these types of threads, from both sides, are starting to really show the absolute worst of this community.

Ive learned this theory last night so you might know better, but i dont remember a single personal attack against an anti-IT that didnt happen because the anti decided to attack us first. The antis seem much more agressive and willing to attack the people instead of the arguments.

[Privatr16]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

How so? it perfectly fits in with the lore.

When did the slow process start then in your opinion?

[rockman0]

Privatr16 wrote...

I support the hallucination theory/maybe a coma theory not the indoctrination one. I also support the retcon and rewrite option or just something that give closure and makes sense. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would just ruin it worst than it already is.

The theory is that Shepard experiences hallucination because Harbinger ATTEMPTS to indoctrinate him. He never becomes indoctrinated because, you know, he's Shepard. The small scene where you see him alive is him waking up and overcoming the Reaper's attempt.

[Jaze55]

rockman0 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MassEffected555 you are the one grabbing.at straws....you say we have no evidence that's explained but we have Shep waking up and the fact he's breathing in outerspace....the voice on the radio even says "nobody made it" to the conduit....your evidence is the citadels atmosphere is still up....when does it say that? wheres your evidence? You have none. Zero. That's grasping at straws if I've ever seen it. Not that it matters if.the atmosphere is up or down, due to the fact he's on the exterior of the station

NO ONE DID MAKE IT YET AT THE POINT YOU TOOL. Shep was on the floor NOT INSIDE THE BEAM. THE chatter was right, did anyone make it to the beam yet? NO NO ONE HAD .... YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. 

Also since Shep was breathing with no helmet I am pretty sure there was atmoshphere, and all you are going to say is ... "but he was never on the citadel because I want to believe so badly my indoc theory is true" 

Jesus you are a tool. I am never coming back to this thread again. Done here. I think I am done with the movement too, I can't be assoiciated with delusional people I'm sorry. 

Wow...just wow. Some people are subtle with their insults, but you really just threw it out there for the world to see, huh?

I can't respond because I said I was done with this thread. But if I were to come back to make a response I would say.

Yes, yes I did. Because it's completely assanine. IMO! I am not telling anyone NOT to believe it, I am just saying why I don't and I honestly feel like people are being delusional - IN MY OPINION. 

Seriously though, indoc theory or not, lets just all agree we want a BETTER ending. That's all i care about in the end, and hopfully thats what everyone wants and not being able to say" See we were right all along the indoc is true har har dumbasses" or "See we told you the indoc was false, you stupid bastards HAR HAR"  

[vrumpt]

Right, just ignore the incredible amount of information that proves indoctrination to be true. Ignore the fact that it is the logically true ending. The planets actually did align and all of these pieces of evidence just happened to come about unplanned /sarcasm.

If you think that all of the pieces of this puzzle just happened to land the way they did then you are incredibly naive. Simple logic dictates that because indoctrination makes the most sense, it is true. This is not a coping mechanism; while some elements may be stretched a little too far (like the wheels on the downed Mako), the remaining pieces of the puzzle are too specific to just accidentally fall into place. This was planned, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of indoctrination.

[Robhuzz]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Makatak wrote...

Why stop at just the ending of ME3?

Did. My headcannon = Shep dies at the beam.

Atleast for now. 

The G man (Half Life) stepped in and froze time at that point.

It's better this way:mellow:

[Privatr16]

rockman0 wrote...

Privatr16 wrote...

I support the hallucination theory/maybe a coma theory not the indoctrination one. I also support the retcon and rewrite option or just something that give closure and makes sense. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would just ruin it worst than it already is.

The theory is that Shepard experiences hallucination because Harbinger ATTEMPTS to indoctrinate him. He never becomes indoctrinated because, you know, he's Shepard. The small scene where you see him alive is him waking up and overcoming the Reaper's attempt.

I would say that is reaching in itself but possible. Massive trauma and shock more likely in the case of what I saw before but, I am basing that off of what I have seen in the real world which makes me biased. Active duty will do that to you.

[Juniper Mucius]

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

Privatr16 wrote...

I support the hallucination theory/maybe a coma theory not the indoctrination one. I also support the retcon and rewrite option or just something that give closure and makes sense. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would just ruin it worst than it already is.

How so? it perfectly fits in with the lore.

It fits so very perfectly in with the lore.  The fact that Shepard hadn't felt the affects of indoctrination before was pretty strange, honestly.  Including her whole crew.  It's also possible Reaper tech was used to help revive her, which could have made her more easy to indoctrinate.  Remember, Benezia was indoctrinated, and she had a much stronger will than Shepard (or it is atleast implied).  The idea is that Shepard is indoctrinated in two of the three endings.  One ending she is not, and has the chance to survive the hit from the beam.

[Rocktel]

Final Hours of Mass Effect proved that indoctrination theory was bollocks.

[Warhawk7137]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Seriously though, indoc theory or not, lets just all agree we want a BETTER ending. That's all i care about in the end, and hopfully thats what everyone wants and not being able to say" See we were right all along the indoc is true har har dumbasses" or "See we told you the indoc was false, you stupid bastards HAR HAR"  

From the person who just called someone a delusional tool for believing in indoc theory...

Right...

[Kujap]

I hate to say it, but It astounds me that the majority of this board believe shepard surviving the citadel explosion, and watching companions they saw on earth hop out of the normandy, more believable than an indoctrination attempt on the player. People can't come to terms with having been tricked by harbinger, when really they should be impressed. I feel really bad for people still believing the hilarious 3 ending cinematics are real.

---- BUT ---- EVERYONE is rightfully pissed at the lack of a definitive conclusion, in either theory, and thats where we should continue to come together on. I can guarantee you no right-minded person is happy with any form/theory/interpretation of the ending, in terms of its final conclusion to the series. But it still baffles me how well people got indoctrinated, myself included.

[Jaze55]

Warhawk7137 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Seriously though, indoc theory or not, lets just all agree we want a BETTER ending. That's all i care about in the end, and hopfully thats what everyone wants and not being able to say" See we were right all along the indoc is true har har dumbasses" or "See we told you the indoc was false, you stupid bastards HAR HAR"  

From the person who just called someone a delusional tool for believing in indoc theory...

Right...

yes that's my opinion. I am allowed to have one. What's your point? 

[Kanon777]

Kujap wrote...

I hate to say it, but It astounds me that the majority of this board believe shepard surviving the citadel explosion, and watching companions they saw on earth hop out of the normandy, more believable than an indoctrination attempt on the player. People can't come to terms with having been tricked by harbinger, when really they should be impressed. I feel really bad for people still believing the hilarious 3 ending cinematics are real.

---- BUT ---- EVERYONE is rightfully pissed at the lack of a definitive conclusion, in either theory, and thats where we should continue to come together on. I can guarantee you no right-minded person is happy with any form/theory/interpretation of the ending, in terms of its final conclusion to the series. But it still baffles me how well people got indoctrinated, myself included.

I think part (not all) of the incredulity steems from the fact that they are too dissapointed with the ending/Bioware and prefer to remain highly skeptical. 

Modifié par tobito113, 16 mars 2012 - 08:28 .