9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Lichtgestaltt]

I had this question going on in my head for a couple of days now.

Having played WOW extensively in the past, I am much more used to the way Blizzard handles their fan base. Sure that is a mmo and they want to keep subscribers. But Blizzard employees actively stay in touch on the forums in either language. They communicate with their fan/gamers on a daily basis.
Prior to WOW I played the FFXI MMO, and Square never stayed in contact with their gamers.

So I am very convinced if such an outcry would ensure in the new Diablo III, Blizzard would scramble to fix it. And communicate from day one.
Though with the intensive alpha/beta testing they invite their gamers beforehand, it propably would never happen.

Would be interesting to see if I am the only one who expected a quick respond from BW like I am used to from Blizzard.

Am I just naive to think this way or does blizzard really have a different business model?

Modifié par Lichtgestaltt, 18 mars 2012 - 12:42 .

[Relwyn]

-Draikin- wrote...

I posted this in a separate thread (http://social.biowar.../index/10178052) but seeing how fast the forum is moving I'll just post it here. I can't explains things as well as others have done in great detail, but I still wanted to post the following nonetheless:

50.000 people are not a "vocal minority". I'm referring to the following poll, but there's also the Facebook and Twitter Retake pages and plenty of other polls around:

http://social.biowar...m/633606/polls/

Initial response from the gaming media (*cough*IGN*cough*) tried to discredit  the people that wanted the ending to be changed or wanted new endings to be added to the game by calling them a very "vocal minority" or by
calling them "entitled". I'd just like to say, don't let them fool you. The number might seem insignificant since the game sold in the millions, but what's important is the fact that only 2% of the people that voted liked the ending. If you extrapolate those results, that poll should be downright scary to Bioware. A lot of those people that voted are part of the core fanbase, the ones that buy collector's edition and other ME related merchandise, the ones they can always fall back on to support their product if things don't go as well as they had hoped. Having that
core fanbase so dissatisfied with a certain part of your product like that is a very, very big deal.

Bioware can explain their reasoning behind the endings as much as they want, but they clearly failed to deliver the ending that people were looking for. Casey Hudson can try and explain the ending needed to be bittersweet (or it would have "betrayed" Shepard's decisions) and how they didn't want to reveal all the details to the player or whatnot, but when only 2% of the people are satisfied with the end result then all of that doesn't matter. They've repeated time and time again that ME is a game built together with the fans, that ME is a game where the gamer is actively involved in shaping her/her own storyline. It makes little sense to compare it to a book or TV series or other art forms, as some people have tried to do again in an attempt to isolate or ridicule the people looking for a better ending.

The ones who ultimately feel betrayed are the people playing the game. When people don't like the ending, you don't go telling them "oh but you don't understand". It was supposed to be their story and their Shepard, and if they aren't satisfied with the end result then Bioware should repair that. Simply because they can, and because they want the fans to be satisfied with their purchase and because they want them to buy DLC and other products from them.

So to echo TotalBiscuit's take on the matter, "if this is being entitled, then be as damn entitled as you want". Don't be fooled into thinking you're the minority and don't be fooled into sheepisly falling in line and give up on voicing your opinion. Remain respectful, but don't let up on voicing your opinion. You're so close to setting a precedent here which may change or evolve interactive storytelling in video games as we know it, something which Bioware set out to do in the first place when they created the Mass Effect series. Don't give up on this.

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis.

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Modifié par Relwyn, 18 mars 2012 - 12:44 .

[ciclopez]

yep! super nice update.... amazing people around the world!!!! thanks

[Optimus J]

I have been telling all this time, that bottom line is Bioware set a route to the abyss and no measure of PR is going to divert it when they reach.

The edge being:

KeldorKatarn wrote...
So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR
advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and
increase it. Organize, do organized large scale strikes. They have NO way to
defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able
to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can
only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll
win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize
loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond
positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about
responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk"s. What you want is a
full surrender; NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally
talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that. This also means:
DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want.
They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like
Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do
have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use
origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the
pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper
hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

The DLCs WILL NOT BE SOLD. There is no way in the current background that people will buy something, to invest their time so all this new effort can be seem being ignored and throw to garbage AGAIN AND AGAIN by this half-assed ending.

They are just wasting time, energy and resources in a fight they set up they own loss.

Just hold the line.

http://www.art-for-a...rch07/300_1.jpg

[VAIOMANIAC]

Lichtgestaltt wrote...

I had this question going on in my head for a couple of days now.

Having played WOW extensively in the past, I am much more used to the way Blizzard handles their fan base. Sure that is a mmo and they want to keep subscribers. But Blizzard employees actively stay in touch on the forums in either language. They communicate with their fan/gamers on a daily basis.
Prior to WOW I played the FFXI MMO, and Square never stayed in contact with their gamers.

So I am very convinced if such an outcry would ensure in the new Diablo III, Blizzard would scramble to fix it. And communicate from day one.
Though with the intensive alpha/beta testing they invite their gamers beforehand, it propably would never happen.

Would be interesting to see if I am the only one who expected a quick respond from BW like I am used to from Blizzard.

Am I just naive to think this way or does blizzard really have a different business model?

Interesting thought since Bioware have entered the mmo business as well with swtor.

[Theb82]

Michael Gamble[/b]
‏
@GambleMike
@hilaryheskett there are also some fantastic constructive comments too. And amazing people! It seems like the bad ones are the minority

Things will never change if bioware still believe this from twitter.

[Mandemon]

We all more or less expected something else that "Maybe, maybe not" from Bioware. We are hpoing that next week brings official statement.

[Relwyn]

Optimus J wrote...

I have been telling all this time, that bottom line is Bioware set a route to the abyss and no measure of PR is going to divert it when they reach.

The edge being:

KeldorKatarn wrote...
So what you guys have to do now is use YOUR
advantages and exploit their weaknesses. That means: Keep the pressure up and
increase it. Organize, do organized large scale strikes. They have NO way to
defend against those. The more organized you become, the more they will be able
to feel your numbers. They cannot defend against a full-blown strike. They can
only delay you and try to disrupt you. If you don't let them do that, you'll
win outright.

So the best way to achieve this is to organize
loud protests, organized, and well thought through. Also don't ever respond
positively to ANYTHING but your initial demands. Don't even think about
responding to "maybe"s or "let's talk"s. What you want is a
full surrender; NOTHING else. DON'T stop before they bow down and literally
talk to you on YOUR terms. YOU are the customers. Use that. This also means:
DON'T play the game, DON'T buy and DLCs unless they are EXACTLY what you want.
They will feel the dropping numbers, they have Origin. Many people didn't like
Origin, but now it is YOUR weapon. Don't play and the WILL see that. They do
have the statistics. The fewer people order anything, the fewer people use
origin the heavier you are threatening their supply lines.

Kill their supply lines while holding up the
pressure and you WILL win this. But DON'T ever give in. YOU have the upper
hand, DON'T let them take that away from you.

The DLCs WILL NOT BE SOLD. There is no way in the current background that people will buy something, to invest their time so all this new effort can be seem being ignored and throw to garbage AGAIN AND AGAIN by this half-assed ending.

They are just wasting time, energy and resources in a fight they set up they own loss.

Just hold the line.

http://www.art-for-a...rch07/300_1.jpg

Well a ending-fix-DLC would sell, but that would be an incredibly shortsighted view. They need to repair the trust and build some bridges again with their community/fans. If they release the DLC for free it would go a long way to restore their good name and in the long run their disappointed fans would fall into the fold again and buy more of their products in the future.

[Relwyn]

Theb82 wrote...

Michael Gamble[/b]
‏
@GambleMike
@hilaryheskett there are also some fantastic constructive comments too. And amazing people! It seems like the bad ones are the minority

Things will never change if bioware still believe this from twitter.

I believe Mr Gamble isn't painting everyone here in our community with one brush when he says that. It is in fact true that there are many good constructive posts, and a small minority take it to the extreme and go ad hominem on the employees - which really doesn't help our cause.

p.s
oops, sorry, doublepost 

Modifié par Relwyn, 18 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[Lena Grozi]

NightScream42 wrote...

Well I already posted this in the Operation: Goliath thread but perhaps it'll get more attention here and adding a little bit more to it. Lol @ people that think the whole weekend event is damage control. I guess we gotta follow a new rule
everytime a game does something we don't like, and then ends up having an event, that event is obviously damage control! Although there is a few RARE exceptions that this is the case, but this event just isn't one of them sorry haters. And FYI this event is the FIRST event of more to come it even states it notice the "Welcome to the first N7 challenge weekend"? Keyword being first. It's not just a one time damage control thing. It's something that is just part of the game like every other game that has random events. If so many people weren't so butthurt about the ending this event would just be viewed as a normal part of the game which is what it probably is anyway. But people just decided it was a good time to start a conspiracy theory / flame-a-thon and somehow link the event to it being damage control. And on a final note I love the game the ending included.

I'm honestly glad that you liked both the game and its ending. Believe me, each and every one of us would love to spare us and others the pain we felt about that ending. So if your story found a satisfying and logical ending already, I congratulate you on a job wonderfully done, cheers to many hours of pleasure playing the games, and my best wishes from the heart to the future games you play - may they also be pleasureable and satisfying.
Personally, my own story is still incomplete due to the ending, and it turns out that I'm not alone feeling like this. After the long journey to this point I can't let it go.

[Syrellaris]

[quote]MeldarthX wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]Quietness wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]Michotic wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

snip

 

[/quote]

I'll chip in.  Yes actually - because Bioware and namely EA are a corp.  They don't answer to us; they answer to their shareholders.  If things get back because their customers are not happy with what they are providing.  The ex then have to answer for this. 

Why wasn't something done?  What created this backlash?  Was anything done?  We gamers have been treated honestly like garbage for too long.  We get dribble; and told to take it. 

Any other industry this would not happen.  You go and eat at a rest; food is great up until you find a cockroach in the last couple bites of your food.  You're then told; well the rest of the food was great so what does it matter if you found that?  Would you put up with that?   No I know for a fact you wouldn't.

I could put many more examples of this;  Also Bioware from the beginning said they wouldn't do an A, B or C ending........well techincally they didn't.........They did one and changed the color pallette.

They said they wouldn't do a Lost ending........They did.  Its not that we hate the game; or Bioware.......We hate the ending; its a cliffhanger you'd see from a 1930s radio show like Rockteer or Lone Ranger.  

If we don't hold the line; hold game companies and publishers to the same standards as everyone else its only going to get worse.  Besides; Bioware has gone back and change when they made a mistake. 

Fallout 3 was changed; Shakespear used to do massive rewrites - he was famous for it.  Sir Arther Doyle; kills Sherlock only to bring him back after the fans demanded it........

We're not the first to stand up for our rights; nor will be the last.......If bioware doesn't want to change the ending that's in the end is their decision; but it also means I will decide not to buy from them again.....

Boycotting is a useful tool.  Its a way to get through to the Corp; that we're not small numbers; that we pay for them to stay in business.

I would love to partake in this weekend's event.  I also play TOR; so Bioware has my doubly invested; longer this drags out; less likely I'll resub to TOR - a lot of others feel the same way.  Best way to get a corp to listen - hit them in the bottom line.......

Until there is an offical statement - WE WILL HOLD THE LINE.

[/quote]

Late reply yes, since its taken from page 89 (I had to work and sleep )

You all are acting as if I am completely against any of you and this entire movement, let me set it straight that I am not. I am all for a civil debate were respect is shown for both or more parties, including the respect that Bioware and even EA deserve (No origin is not the devil, does not steal your information any more then Steam does etc)

Even I have parts in the ending I would love to see changed, one of things is something that I think 90% of the community agrees with. The gilligan world crash landing.

All the other ending parts could make sense. Is shepard Indoctrinated? There is quite a large chance she or he is. Afterall she has been revived using reaper technology. She/he mentioned something else as well. It could be a very high tech Reaper VI inside her brain tissue. Indoctrination there for is a plausible factor to consider.

The mass relays, they technically explode and according to the lore would cause a Super Nova type of detonation. Where it not, this is not an actuall open explosion. It is encapsuled. (I would still like to have an ending were the Mass relays are destroyed and one were they are not)

So yes, there are parts that need to be changed but they are not so disastrous as people make it out to be. this 5 minute ending ruined your entire mass effect experiance? I have a hard time believing that.

also comparing food to games = like comparing apples with oranges. Ofcourse people will complain about that cockroach, its a health hazard. Game endings are not.

Also no one, not even me, is telling you to not stand up for your believes.

Boycotting is a usefull tool, but it does more harm then good. That is why hardly no one uses it. Ofcourse boycotting this event has hardly no real risks, other then pissing off the people that could join your cause or  "movement".  If that is what you want, then be my guest, but Please do not act surprised when you will gain a lot of hate towards the movement and people demanding bioware to put a stop to the current spreading (which honestly is getting out of hand**) of your movement.

(** In terms of posting links to this thread and trying to link every type of topic to the ending, even when it has nothing to do with the ending))

[TheRealMithril]

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Kudos, this very point was raised by many of us when attempts were made to minimalize the effects of the polls

I'll repeat what I also said (in a similar situation, because this keep getting lost in the steady stream of other posts) in regards to this point: The polls (even if badly made) are so large that even with a heathly 'rebate' there would still be more than 75% who are against the endings. The polls are so huge that they would tell you who the next president is, it is that accurate.

I don't mean to steal your point (just to make it clear) only to add support to it

Again, kudos. 

[musicaleCA]

Lichtgestaltt wrote...

I had this question going on in my head for a couple of days now.

Having played WOW extensively in the past, I am much more used to the way Blizzard handles their fan base. Sure that is a mmo and they want to keep subscribers. But Blizzard employees actively stay in touch on the forums in either language. They communicate with their fan/gamers on a daily basis.
Prior to WOW I played the FFXI MMO, and Square never stayed in contact with their gamers.

So I am very convinced if such an outcry would ensure in the new Diablo III, Blizzard would scramble to fix it. And communicate from day one.
Though with the intensive alpha/beta testing they invite their gamers beforehand, it propably would never happen.

Would be interesting to see if I am the only one who expected a quick respond from BW like I am used to from Blizzard.

Am I just naive to think this way or does blizzard really have a different business model?

Kerberos Productions also operates like that. Hell, their CEO is one of the most active people on their forums. And they're just an wee indie developer that makes games that they want to make. It's not all about making money, so I think their involvement is less about actively getting more money out of people and more about not being...a gigantic phallus.

Modifié par musicaleCA, 18 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[Cypher333]

can somebody please give me the link of the cnn video ?

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Was anyone else reminded of the type of awful movies that used to be on MST3K when they saw people just popping up on the Normandy out of nowhere?

Hold the line as long as it takes people.

[The Almighty Ali]

Bioware can keep trying to downplay the amount of people who's unhappy with the ending, they can keep standing there and hope this'll all blow off. But the issue is this, the polls don't lie nor does the drop in price on the game after such a short time. Was downtown yesterday and visited a retail store, the price on a new copy had been halfed.

I hope they will compromise soon enough instead of having the PR folk walk around trying to beat around the bush, cause most of us are here for the long run. And it would be a shame if this goes past the point of no return in therms of economy and public relations when it could be avoided.

As I said yesterday, the ball in on their half. We're just standing here, watching, waiting and encouraging them to toss it back.

[Foxtrot_212]

Hold the line.

[Optimus J]

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis.

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

I worked in the same terms in the past, and I second your affirmations.

First the 50K sample is ENORMOUS. Second is that arithmetic is being used wrongly as you point.They are comparing the number of people that voiced their opinion to the number of people that supposedly could.

This ignores completely that some of these people are voicing their opinion IN FAVOR of Bioware. So if the against are a vocal minorinity, the in favor are a trace.

NO, that sample MUST BE EXTRAPOLATED as you point. The fact is that 98% of the people that voluntarily voice their opinions are AGAINST Bioware. There is no reason to believe that those who don't voice are the opposite in proportions than their own PR department FAITH.

So don't let this circular logic fool you guys, we SCIENTIFICALLY have no reason to believe that very few don't like the end, we have reason to believe that at least 4 out of each 5 DON'T LIKE.

And AGAIN I stress the reasoning of why Bioware should stop tto waste energy in this effort of PR: No matter what you believe you accomplished in terms of opinion, at the time you fire the DLCs on the business plan it will backfire on your face and people will not buy your content, because you made it pointless.

[azerSheppard]

Cypher333 wrote...

can somebody please give me the link of the cnn video ?

it on the first page you lazy bum:lol:

[Syrellaris]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Kudos, this very point was raised by many of us when attempts were made to minimalize the effects of the polls

I'll repeat what I also said (in a similar situation, because this keep getting lost in the steady stream of other posts) in regards to this point: The polls (even if badly made) are so large that even with a heathly 'rebate' there would still be more than 75% who are against the endings. The polls are so huge that they would tell you who the next president is, it is that accurate.

I don't mean to steal your point (just to make it clear) only to add support to it

Again, kudos. 

They would have probable cause if they were accurate. Which the poll on BSN is not. Even if its 50 000 votes, the problem with the poll is people can constantly revote and each vote would count. Any scientist, evne the one you quoted or any other person that has to deal with polls and statistics, would dismiss a Inaccurate poll right away.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Kudos, this very point was raised by many of us when attempts were made to minimalize the effects of the polls

I'll repeat what I also said (in a similar situation, because this keep getting lost in the steady stream of other posts) in regards to this point: The polls (even if badly made) are so large that even with a heathly 'rebate' there would still be more than 75% who are against the endings. The polls are so huge that they would tell you who the next president is, it is that accurate.

I don't mean to steal your point (just to make it clear) only to add support to it

Again, kudos. 

Well, not to play advocate for the devil here, but the sample of 50.000 is skewed towards the kind of poeple who feel passionate towards something, which is abundantly the fans. Also, the poll isn't scientifically balanced, but biased itself.

Then again, on a couple of million, 50.000 is still a rather lot of people, and it doesn't even include all the people, fans and normal consumers, who played the game and feel similarly.

What Bioware in its PR statement does, is imply that only the most frantic fans would have the ending changed. But this isn't true. The kind ofpeople that frequent the fora are a fairly reasonable crosssection of the kinds of people playing the game, and of those people, an overwhelming majority support the RetakeME3 movement. Which means that the RetakeME3 movement is fairly representable for the opinions of the entire consumerbase.

Does the movement include people who are prone to outlashes? Or people who only came online to voice their opnion of the game? Yes, indeed. But, by listening to them, Bioware can get them on their side, whereas the 'silent majority' can never be accessed, can never be bothered to voice their opinion, and is, therefore, a moot point in the public debate.

[2Shepards]

Every time I check in, hold position, enlist new comrades, or feel the sting of disappointment, I think about how I have not finished ME3, and my resolve is is doubled. Hold the Line!

[TheRealMithril]

Syrellaris wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Kudos, this very point was raised by many of us when attempts were made to minimalize the effects of the polls

I'll repeat what I also said (in a similar situation, because this keep getting lost in the steady stream of other posts) in regards to this point: The polls (even if badly made) are so large that even with a heathly 'rebate' there would still be more than 75% who are against the endings. The polls are so huge that they would tell you who the next president is, it is that accurate.

I don't mean to steal your point (just to make it clear) only to add support to it

Again, kudos. 

They would have probable cause if they were accurate. Which the poll on BSN is not. Even if its 50 000 votes, the problem with the poll is people can constantly revote and each vote would count. Any scientist, evne the one you quoted or any other person that has to deal with polls and statistics, would dismiss a Inaccurate poll right away.

Yes and no. Yes, because it is possible (with the poll you refer to) to do that. No, because even if some did, it would still not affect the numbers in a major way when there are so many answers. Secondly there are other polls with much better control (such as your IP have already voted) that are enough to make your point invalid.

[Vipus_Locasta]

Great thread. One of the best in this forum, actually. Will be following it closely from now on to see how the situation develops.

Until then... HOLD THE LINE!

[MDT1]

It is obvious that the BSN poll can't be 100% accurate, but it's also obvious that it generally reflects the customers opinion.

Yes people that liked the ending are less likly to come here and complain, but people that didn't like it but didn't find it gambreaking also oftn won't come here.
I mean in person I know nobody that played ME and liked the ending.

Modifié par MDT1, 18 mars 2012 - 01:12 .