9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Syrellaris]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Relwyn wrote...

As I work in a scientific field for a living, a sample of 50 000 is overkill for any scientific study when extrapolating the results of the statistics onto a larger population. Normally a study has a few hundred or a few thousand individuals participating because it is enough to make conclusions based on the statistical analysis. 

A sample size of tens of thousands is simply put overkill in terms of statistics. Studies with such a sample size are on a continental or national scale. While the poll itself is simply put a poll and nothing more, it's limited in some ways - however: Anyone who sees it at Bioware is probably lighting a cigarette with shaky hands because they know that the poll is a good indication of the public's view of the game's ending. 

To do as IGN and other organizations (including Bioware) have done and call it a minority or try to downplay the size of the community which thinks the ending is terrible is to be intellectually disingenuous/dishonest. 

While they do their PR-shell game for now (which they can only keep up for so long, sooner or later they'll have to come clean), I'll shamelessely Hold the Line.

Kudos, this very point was raised by many of us when attempts were made to minimalize the effects of the polls

I'll repeat what I also said (in a similar situation, because this keep getting lost in the steady stream of other posts) in regards to this point: The polls (even if badly made) are so large that even with a heathly 'rebate' there would still be more than 75% who are against the endings. The polls are so huge that they would tell you who the next president is, it is that accurate.

I don't mean to steal your point (just to make it clear) only to add support to it

Again, kudos. 

They would have probable cause if they were accurate. Which the poll on BSN is not. Even if its 50 000 votes, the problem with the poll is people can constantly revote and each vote would count. Any scientist, evne the one you quoted or any other person that has to deal with polls and statistics, would dismiss a Inaccurate poll right away.

Yes and no. Yes, because it is possible (with the poll you refer to) to do that. No, because even if some did, it would still not affect the numbers in a major way when there are so many answers. Secondly there are other polls with much better control (such as your IP have already voted) that are enough to make your point invalid.

It does not make my point invalid. sorry to inform you about that.  If IP voting was used, you would not be able to vote more then once on the poll. The fact that you can shows the poll does not keep track of individual IP's.

Take away all the duplicate votings and it would be about perhaps 60 / 40.

[zimm2142]

Toasting in EPIC bread!

[Cypher333]

azerSheppard wrote...

Cypher333 wrote...

can somebody please give me the link of the cnn video ?

it on the first page you lazy bum:lol:

Sorry lol!  thanks man

[supermaan]

Some personal opinions:

I am fine wih the endings IF and ONLY IF

a)
It turns out that when you get hit by the beam during the final push,
you're knocked out and what follows is a mental indoctronation trial by
Harbinger. To me, that means that any plot holes from that point
(Breathing in space, the Normandy debacle, Space Ghost, etc.) are things
happening in your mind. They are not physically happening. Game
reality does not return until the scene of Shepard taking a breath -
meaning you have defeated your final mental indoctrination trial by
Harbinger. The "taking a breath" scene, for me, means that I have made all the right choices and in fact have
told Space Ghost/Harbinger to get bent - we're taking you out. Shepard
and the Galactic Force he has gathered continue the reaper defeat with
the DLC that is hinted at with the final screen (whch basically says
this).
Wether it's paid or free DLC - idk, hoping it's free and the
plan all along. This means the "ending" is not the end of the saga, it's
just the last scene in this installment. It makes the "this is the
ending we planned all along, wanted to leave the ending open for
speculation" remarks more acceptable to me. It also gives me some way to
tie together all the twitters and other hints that were dropped.

If you do not choose destroy or your ems is insufficient, you fail. You can try again from the auto-save.

c)
If it turns out that all of the above is incorrect - then we have a
huge pile of plot hole ridden, illogical, steaming putrid wtf.

[ScotGaymer]

I fot u could set polls on this to only allow one vote per user...

[NightScream42]

Lena Grozi wrote...

NightScream42 wrote...

Well I already posted this in the Operation: Goliath thread but perhaps it'll get more attention here and adding a little bit more to it. Lol @ people that think the whole weekend event is damage control. I guess we gotta follow a new rule
everytime a game does something we don't like, and then ends up having an event, that event is obviously damage control! Although there is a few RARE exceptions that this is the case, but this event just isn't one of them sorry haters. And FYI this event is the FIRST event of more to come it even states it notice the "Welcome to the first N7 challenge weekend"? Keyword being first. It's not just a one time damage control thing. It's something that is just part of the game like every other game that has random events. If so many people weren't so butthurt about the ending this event would just be viewed as a normal part of the game which is what it probably is anyway. But people just decided it was a good time to start a conspiracy theory / flame-a-thon and somehow link the event to it being damage control. And on a final note I love the game the ending included.

I'm honestly glad that you liked both the game and its ending. Believe me, each and every one of us would love to spare us and others the pain we felt about that ending. So if your story found a satisfying and logical ending already, I congratulate you on a job wonderfully done, cheers to many hours of pleasure playing the games, and my best wishes from the heart to the future games you play - may they also be pleasureable and satisfying.
Personally, my own story is still incomplete due to the ending, and it turns out that I'm not alone feeling like this. After the long journey to this point I can't let it go.

So what exactly bothers you about the ending anyway? From what I took from the ending it paves the way for Mass Effect 4. Being based much further in the future with the child that was with the Stargazer being the new main character of the game. Since correct me if I'm wrong isn't Mass Effect 3 supposed to be Shepards last one? But not generally the end of the series itself?

[Death of Seph]

Just a thought I had about the reasoning behind the ending. Perhaps the idea was to deliberatly hold out on telling us the fate of the races so that it could be explored in the next game and so on. If their long term goal is to perhaps introduce a mass effect online multiplayer game then they could use the rebuilding of the galaxy as a starting point. Choose your race, fight for dominance etc. Would make for an interesting long term plan for bioware, not one that I personaly agree with but hey, just a thought.

If this was the case I would not buy into it, I found the ending hollow. If they do not feel that they can change it then at least expand on it

[TheRealMithril]

Syrellaris wrote...

It does not make my point invalid. sorry to inform you about that.  If IP voting was used, you would not be able to vote more then once on the poll. The fact that you can shows the poll does not keep track of individual IP's. 

Take away all the duplicate votings and it would be about perhaps 60 / 40.

Actually it does, because (as I mentioned) other polls in even mainstream medias (that are experienced in making polls) that reflect the same thing.

Also, your final assumption is highly speculative at best.

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 18 mars 2012 - 01:17 .

[Bunzmaster]

Hold the line!!

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Bioware can keep trying to downplay the amount of people who's unhappy with the ending, they can keep standing there and hope this'll all blow off. But the issue is this, the polls don't lie nor does the drop in price on the game after such a short time. Was downtown yesterday and visited a retail store, the price on a new copy had been halfed.

I hope they will compromise soon enough instead of having the PR folk walk around trying to beat around the bush, cause most of us are here for the long run. And it would be a shame if this goes past the point of no return in therms of economy and public relations when it could be avoided.

As I said yesterday, the ball in on their half. We're just standing here, watching, waiting and encouraging them to toss it back.

Well said.  I believe that Bioware's first quarter ends at the end of the month so that is when they will start facing questions from sharholder and EA I think that is why we are seeing so much spin right now. They know that if they don't turn this around this week it will no longer be between just them and the fans,it will be them,the fans,the sharholders and EA. Also the news of the movie is good news for our side because a Hollywood studio is not going to want to see the people they just signed a deal with destroy their own fanbase.

Hold the line as long as it takes people.

[Syrellaris]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

It does not make my point invalid. sorry to inform you about that.  If IP voting was used, you would not be able to vote more then once on the poll. The fact that you can shows the poll does not keep track of individual IP's. 

Take away all the duplicate votings and it would be about perhaps 60 / 40.

Actually it does, because (as I mentioned) other polls in even mainstream medias (that are experienced in making polls) that reflect the same thing.

Also, your final assumption is highly speculative at best.

Well whatever really,  you can believe my point is invalid, I know its not. No point in debating it here, as this thread has nothing to do with the poll itself and or statistics.

[Dolphin FFetus]

Lichtgestaltt wrote...

I had this question going on in my head for a couple of days now.

Having played WOW extensively in the past, I am much more used to the way Blizzard handles their fan base. Sure that is a mmo and they want to keep subscribers. But Blizzard employees actively stay in touch on the forums in either language. They communicate with their fan/gamers on a daily basis.
Prior to WOW I played the FFXI MMO, and Square never stayed in contact with their gamers.

So I am very convinced if such an outcry would ensure in the new Diablo III, Blizzard would scramble to fix it. And communicate from day one.
Though with the intensive alpha/beta testing they invite their gamers beforehand, it propably would never happen.

Would be interesting to see if I am the only one who expected a quick respond from BW like I am used to from Blizzard.

Am I just naive to think this way or does blizzard really have a different business model?

 Blizzard truly does care about its customer base, has (generally) excellent tech support and developers try their best to listen to the userbase. EA/Bioware tends to fall on the exact opposite of the spectrum. I'm not going to say Blizzard is perfect, but compared to this company they really are. I love Mass Effect, ending aside, and enjoyed Dragon Age, but I can't think of a company that views the opinions of its own consumers so low. I find it upsetting after being spoiled by Blizz and Valve.

[punkenjunki3]

Morning guys,

I just wanted to say i joined the movement yesterday and its awe inspiring to see so many people rallying around this.

Secondly ive been reading other articles, blongs etc of game reviewers, watched a few videos where the reviewers basically slam us and call us Fanboys etc... Its pretty disheartening to see this. I cant and wont from now on be using any game review site that has done this this includes IGN, Destructoid, Penny arcade etc.. Ive already stopped playing the game, or any BW product for that matter and my XBL gold is not renewing, seeing as i got it for this. Im in two minds as to whether to let microsoft know that my loss of custom to them is as a result of this.

Im still trusting that BW will come good, for now. I am however concerned that any DLC that comes out to maybe deliver the best ending will be paid content, this marks a worrying trend in the liberties that companies can take with us if this happens. Its like the whole "online" pass for games now, which is free if you buy a new copy (well included in full retail price) or if you buy pre-owned games (which i do for a lot of titiles as i cant afford full retail sometimes) you now have to fork up extra just to be able to use the online features, this negating any saving you may have made by buying pre-owned. (and yes i know some titles you can buy are still cheap enough to allow for the online pass and still be cheaper than full price, thats not the point.)

Coupled with this, in the UK one of the major High Street video games retailers is in trouble, im referring of course to GAME which has annouced its in serious trouble, suppliers are now not dealing with them and the share price has dropped dramatically (http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17341994). One of the stories that ran almost concurrantly to this was that GAME was now not able to fulfill pre-orders for the title. Infact I had my email too and I was gutted as i had so little money this month on account of bills etc that I had relied on credit I had stored up in GAME to get my copy, eventually I got the cash together but the slog to get the game just made me feel terrible when I got to the end. Im not saying that GAME not being able to stock ME3 was the sole purpose for the company to head under, but it wont have helped and the timing couldnt have been worse.

Im an Electro-Technical Officer in the Merchant Navy, so playing games when im away from home in my rest hours is a way of relaxation, some familiarity if you will. I encourage the other members of the crew to do it. Its also my main reason for gelling so well with the game, its characters, whilst im not out fighting evil alien reapers threatening to destroy my home. I am away from my home and away from everything familiar I have something I can retreat to because I feel synonymous with the crew of the Normandy who are a million miles away from everything and also caught up in a myriad of tasks that they must get through before they can go home. So yup I'm emotionally invested in this story because i find so much of it resonating with me, to that end I just wanted to have more closure to a story that means so much to me at a profound level.

TL:DR - A series that has meant so much to me reduced to nothing for 10 mins and also the games companies intent on stiffing us at every turn is not on.

Modifié par punkenjunki3, 18 mars 2012 - 01:23 .

[2Shepards]

Kinda disappointed in CNN lack in investigation skills. Couldn't have added a "Not to mention these awesome people raised 50,000 dollars for kids"

Sheesh

[TheRealMithril]

Syrellaris wrote...


Well whatever really,  you can believe my point is invalid, I know its not. No point in debating it here, as this thread has nothing to do with the poll itself and or statistics.

Wow, you 'know'. That implies direct knowledge of the data collected. I hope you realize what that statement suggests.

[Syrellaris]

Dolphin FFetus wrote...

Lichtgestaltt wrote...

I had this question going on in my head for a couple of days now.

Having played WOW extensively in the past, I am much more used to the way Blizzard handles their fan base. Sure that is a mmo and they want to keep subscribers. But Blizzard employees actively stay in touch on the forums in either language. They communicate with their fan/gamers on a daily basis.
Prior to WOW I played the FFXI MMO, and Square never stayed in contact with their gamers.

So I am very convinced if such an outcry would ensure in the new Diablo III, Blizzard would scramble to fix it. And communicate from day one.
Though with the intensive alpha/beta testing they invite their gamers beforehand, it propably would never happen.

Would be interesting to see if I am the only one who expected a quick respond from BW like I am used to from Blizzard.

Am I just naive to think this way or does blizzard really have a different business model?

 Blizzard truly does care about its customer base, has (generally) excellent tech support and developers try their best to listen to the userbase. EA/Bioware tends to fall on the exact opposite of the spectrum. I'm not going to say Blizzard is perfect, but compared to this company they really are. I love Mass Effect, ending aside, and enjoyed Dragon Age, but I can't think of a company that views the opinions of its own consumers so low. I find it upsetting after being spoiled by Blizz and Valve.

Actually far from it in the early days. Blizzard during the development and release of world of warcraft really only listened to there United States players. Leaving the european players in the dark. They created the illusion that patches and changes in the game also came from european players, which later on was debunked and blizzard was faced with some furious backlash.

it was after that they hired more International Community representatives that started doing some communication with the european branch of there game. There tech support at that was also far from ideal as it was mostly fans coughing up solutions and helping others.

Altough, yes they did very much so improve to the point that it is very well done right now.

[Kilshrek]

Heh, remember what ParaShep says to Kalisah?

Keep asking them the hard questions, don't let them forget about us. (paraphrased, obviously)

And about the numbers in the poll, to switch fomr 90% to 60% is stretching it beyond credibility. You cannot just take 30% of 50,000 and say those are duplicates. That is a wild assumption and will be treated as such. 15% is the farthest I dare go without having to put on a tin foil hat.

And remember all those pre-release statements. Hold on to those, because Bioware has appeared to write checks(cheques?) they can't cash.

[Dolphin FFetus]

When is it likely we'll hear anymore official feedback from the devs or important people? Hopefully before Gabe and Tycho spew out anymore nonsense.

[Paparob]

TheRealMithril wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

It does not make my point invalid. sorry to inform you about that.  If IP voting was used, you would not be able to vote more then once on the poll. The fact that you can shows the poll does not keep track of individual IP's. 

Take away all the duplicate votings and it would be about perhaps 60 / 40.

Actually it does, because (as I mentioned) other polls in even mainstream medias (that are experienced in making polls) that reflect the same thing.

Also, your final assumption is highly speculative at best.

I heard someone say that if you try to vote more than once in the poll it doesn't register more than once and that its a common BSN issue. I dunno, I haven't been here that long. The G4 poll shows only 3.7% of all polled like the ending. 71.6% hated it, 16.4% hadn't completed it and 8.3% weren''t sure what to think of it. Its not good that only 3.7% polled enjoyed the ending.

Edit: Here is the link, scroll down about its on the right handside. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/

Modifié par Paparob, 18 mars 2012 - 01:30 .

[Thore2k10]

Dolphin FFetus wrote...

When is it likely we'll hear anymore official feedback from the devs or important people? Hopefully before Gabe and Tycho spew out anymore nonsense.

its sunday, i think next week probably

[musicaleCA]

NightScream42 wrote...

Lena Grozi wrote...

NightScream42 wrote...

Well I already posted this in the Operation: Goliath thread but perhaps it'll get more attention here and adding a little bit more to it. Lol @ people that think the whole weekend event is damage control. I guess we gotta follow a new rule
everytime a game does something we don't like, and then ends up having an event, that event is obviously damage control! Although there is a few RARE exceptions that this is the case, but this event just isn't one of them sorry haters. And FYI this event is the FIRST event of more to come it even states it notice the "Welcome to the first N7 challenge weekend"? Keyword being first. It's not just a one time damage control thing. It's something that is just part of the game like every other game that has random events. If so many people weren't so butthurt about the ending this event would just be viewed as a normal part of the game which is what it probably is anyway. But people just decided it was a good time to start a conspiracy theory / flame-a-thon and somehow link the event to it being damage control. And on a final note I love the game the ending included.

I'm honestly glad that you liked both the game and its ending. Believe me, each and every one of us would love to spare us and others the pain we felt about that ending. So if your story found a satisfying and logical ending already, I congratulate you on a job wonderfully done, cheers to many hours of pleasure playing the games, and my best wishes from the heart to the future games you play - may they also be pleasureable and satisfying.
Personally, my own story is still incomplete due to the ending, and it turns out that I'm not alone feeling like this. After the long journey to this point I can't let it go.

So what exactly bothers you about the ending anyway? From what I took from the ending it paves the way for Mass Effect 4. Being based much further in the future with the child that was with the Stargazer being the new main character of the game. Since correct me if I'm wrong isn't Mass Effect 3 supposed to be Shepards last one? But not generally the end of the series itself?

I don't really see how it does this. Even if the relays didn't explode in a particularly horrifying way, by incinerating the systems they're in, you're still left with an inferred holocaust, and a definite galactic dark age. Just think of what would happen to our society if you smashed every boat, plane, train, and truck, demolishing all the roads and railroads in the process. The economy would collapse in a day. Food would be unavailable within days, a week at the outside in the least densly populated areas. Planets that depended on intergalactic trade to sustain their populations would require mass suicide of portions of the population. Without the mass relays...that'd be an awefully small game universe, by comparison.

[Kilshrek]

Dolphin FFetus wrote...

When is it likely we'll hear anymore official feedback from the devs or important people? Hopefully before Gabe and Tycho spew out anymore nonsense.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And Penny Arcade was joking, not mocking. There is a big difference. There was nothing malicious in their attack.

A statement from Bioware can be expected on Monday(19/3) at the earliest, or whenever at latest.

Have a gander to the OP and refresh yourself on the little tactics PR will try to employ to distract, divide and conquer the movement.

And always remember to try your damndest to keep things on topic here. Nothing worse than giving anyone a reason to shut it down, and then causing further emotional reactions.

Keep it on topic, fight for a better ending, hold the line.

[Starscream723]

Aetius5 wrote...

Ending the trilogy like the way Bioware did is the equvilent of ending Return of the King after Frodo and Sam walk into Mount Doom....

It's more like Frodo and Sam walk into Mount Doom while all their pals fight the monsters. They throw the ring into the fires... causing all of Middle Earth to explode (in the colour of your choice) and leaving the world in a worse state than Sauron ever would have. They both die, then suddenly Aragorn and Gandalf are on a boat thousands of miles away, with no explanation as to how they got there or why they weren't at the final battle anymore.


Then it cuts to Peter Falk sat by his grandson's bed, telling him a story.

[Syrellaris]

Paparob wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

It does not make my point invalid. sorry to inform you about that.  If IP voting was used, you would not be able to vote more then once on the poll. The fact that you can shows the poll does not keep track of individual IP's. 

Take away all the duplicate votings and it would be about perhaps 60 / 40.

Actually it does, because (as I mentioned) other polls in even mainstream medias (that are experienced in making polls) that reflect the same thing.

Also, your final assumption is highly speculative at best.

I heard someone say that if you try to vote more than once in the poll it doesn't register more than once and that its a common BSN issue. I dunno, I haven't been here that long. The G4 poll shows only 3.7% of all polled like the ending. 71.6% hated it, 16.4% hadn't completed it and 8.3% weren''t sure what to think of it. Its not good that only 3.7% polled enjoyed the ending.

Edit: Here is the link, scroll down about its on the right handside. http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/

I am not disputing the fact that other polls say that less people liked the ending or anything. I was just saying that the BSN poll (which a lot of people grab to) is inaccurate .

also in G4TV not the gamer site that has that idiot journalist that created that Ipad app?

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

punkenjunki3 wrote...

Morning guys,

I just wanted to say i joined the movement yesterday and its awe inspiring to see so many people rallying around this.

Secondly ive been reading other articles, blongs etc of game reviewers, watched a few videos where the reviewers basically slam us and call us Fanboys etc... Its pretty disheartening to see this. I cant and wont from now on be using any game review site that has done this this includes IGN, Destructoid, Penny arcade etc.. Ive already stopped playing the game, or any BW product for that matter and my XBL gold is not renewing, seeing as i got it for this. Im in two minds as to whether to let microsoft know that my loss of custom to them is as a result of this.

Im still trusting that BW will come good, for now. I am however concerned that any DLC that comes out to maybe deliver the best ending will be paid content, this marks a worrying trend in the liberties that companies can take with us if this happens. Its like the whole "online" pass for games now, which is free if you buy a new copy (well included in full retail price) or if you buy pre-owned games (which i do for a lot of titiles as i cant afford full retail sometimes) you now have to fork up extra just to be able to use the online features, this negating any saving you may have made by buying pre-owned. (and yes i know some titles you can buy are still cheap enough to allow for the online pass and still be cheaper than full price, thats not the point.)

Coupled with this, in the UK one of the major High Street video games retailers is in trouble, im referring of course to GAME which has annouced its in serious trouble, suppliers are now not dealing with them and the share price has dropped dramatically (http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17341994). One of the stories that ran almost concurrantly to this was that GAME was now not able to fulfill pre-orders for the title. Infact I had my email too and I was gutted as i had so little money this month on account of bills etc that I had relied on credit I had stored up in GAME to get my copy, eventually I got the cash together but the slog to get the game just made me feel terrible when I got to the end. Im not saying that GAME not being able to stock ME3 was the sole purpose for the company to head under, but it wont have helped and the timing couldnt have been worse.

Im an Electro-Technical Officer in the Merchant Navy, so playing games when im away from home in my rest hours is a way of relaxation, some familiarity if you will. I encourage the other members of the crew to do it. Its also my main reason for gelling so well with the game, its characters, whilst im not out fighting evil alien reapers threatening to destroy my home. I am away from my home and away from everything familiar I have something I can retreat to because I feel synonymous with the crew of the Normandy who are a million miles away from everything and also caught up in a myriad of tasks that they must get through before they can go home. So yup I'm emotionally invested in this story because i find so much of it resonating with me, to that end I just wanted to have more closure to a story that means so much to me at a profound level.

TL:DR - A series that has meant so much to me reduced to nothing for 10 mins and also the games companies intent on stiffing us at every turn is not on.

Thanks for joining!  Every person who joins and every person who doesn't join but you talk out of buying the game is a step closer to victory.  As I said before there are four people are are not buying the game after I told them about the ending so Bioware lost $240 they lost. Thanks for helping.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.