9972 réponses à ce sujet

[cardboardarmor]

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

*snip*

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.

In all fairness, Carnage, I'd place the relocking bug as a priority one issue right now.  Losing out on content you paid for because of a defective product is a sight more actionable if unspoken for compared to the endings.

The bad endings only gets them beat in the court of public opinion, after all.

Modifié par cardboardarmor, 18 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[Jedifan421]

Darkeus wrote...

calitreview.com/24673

Interesting article about the game from a literary standpoint. 

Great review and it brings up some fantastic points. This will go down in history for all future screenwriters such as myself for how NOT to end a trilogy such as Mass Effect, especially one that emphasizes player interactivity and choices mattering. At least, that's what it SEEMED.

[MDT1]

Salyut wrote...

I was wondering if there's any way of estimating somewhat successfully how much influence we've had so far financially.

There are several post of people who've returned their game/cancelled their SWTOR subs/convinced others not to buy ME3/etc. I've also heard people talk about losing whole guilds in SWTOR because of this. Is there any way of estimating the numbers of subscribes/unsubscribes over the past week compared to before ME3? Or the number of ME3 games returned?

In this case TOR might be a blessing after all.

[Carnage752]

Drasoini wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

By the way guys, not to excuse Bioware but part of the reason their PR is tightlipped right now might be because they're having issues on various fronts when it comes to ME3. The whole multiplayer kits getting relocked bug, costing some people in excess of $100 real money, is still out there.

Similarly a lot of people are still experiencing difficulties with the multiplayer in the form of frequent disconnects leading to getting no credits, and just plain not being able to connect to friends. Oh, and I suppose there's the whole "Tali's face" blowout.

I'm not an industry veteran like atghunter, but it seems consistent with what I was taught in my corporate communications classes in college that they probably want to address all major issues simultaneously, rather than one at a time. I may be wrong, but couldn't this factor into it taking so long to have any real response that isn't doublespeak?

The kit relocking bug victims have been complaining about lack of decisive responses for over a week now.

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.

Yes and no, Carnage.  I think what we're seeing here is analogous to a multiplayer match (Bear with me here).  You're an Asari Vanguard, specced into Stasis with a Mantis.  There's a Brute on the field.  You don't focus on the Brute, your weapon and Biotics aren't built for it, you focus on the Marauders, the Cannibals, the Husks.  You lock them down and snipe their foreheads.  You let your team work on the Brute.  You work where your strengths are and not where you're all but useless.  That's how they are handling these situations.  They are picking their fights based on the strengths they and their team possess.

Hah! Nice ananology. But one flaw...

I kill a ****load of brutes as an Asari vanguard.

[Panicomatic]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

 
Please support and discuss our mission statement:

We hold grievances with the current ending and EA/BioWare because:

• The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers.

• The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans.

• The response from BioWare needs to change.

• We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We dedicate our time to this cause because we genuinely care about Mass Effect and its story.

• We want to see a product that we, as human beings, as consumers, as fans, and as players can be proud of.

• We wish to see a conclusion to the game that does the rest of the series justice - in terms of concluding the story and providing the players with both choices and consequences to prior choices.

Retake Mass Effect 3 - Hold the line. 

The thread to to do is here:
http://social.biowar.../index/10146448 
Even if you don't want to participate in the discussion, PLEASE vote in the poll:
http://social.biowar...25/polls/29868/ 

We could probably change some of the wording used in that mission statement, and add more impact to our portion of the argument.
"The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers." and  "The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans."

We can probably combine these ideas into one statement something like:

"The game's ending fails to meet what we expected as consumers and fans based on promises made through pre-release advertising."

Then list sources of quotes where BW publicly commented about the game's ending (See bottom). 
Next point:

"The response from BioWare needs to change."

How, and to what end? This statement is a little vague and could include more detail. Example:

"As a group of consumers we desire more open communication from BioWare and confirmation that our concerns are being addressed, to know if corrective actions are being taken, and to what extent, not just acknowledgement of receiving feedback."

Just an example, I'm sure atghunter may be able to help better help word that statement to maximize and effectively communicate what we really desire. 

Maybe if you guys agree we can add as extra wording:

"As a fanbase we have a vested interest in the Mass effect franchise. Many of us have invested a significant amount of time (Upwards of 100 hours of gameplay per log) and money (All three games, DLC, comics, novels, clothing, etc.) into the Mass Effect Universe. Additionally we are still investing our time and money into organizing this movement just to convey our level of dissatisfaction with the ending. We are very much so advocates of the franchise but feel morally obligated as consumers to make our level of grievance known in light of feeling mislead by a misrepresented product."

In the same we'll want to make sure we avoid being over redundant without statements. That's my take on mission statement. Truth be told, I've never written a mission statement and I'm not sure if there is a specific literary formula to writing one. Hopefully someone can critique what I've written but this is the way I'd approach the mission statement.

Here are the quotes from the "Mass Effect 3 debacle - Pre-release developer quotes" thread:

cato_84 wrote...

Official Mass Effect Websitehttp://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike anyother, where the decisions you make completely shape your experienceand outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in MassEffect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story asmuch as we are anyway.” 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard andthen be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”  

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens." 
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very differentbased on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a playerdecide what your story is.”

Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than everbefore, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative MikeGamble. 

In an inteview with Now Gamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".

Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to playall the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just atotally different way of playing" 

Casey Hudson (Director)http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and allof these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”

Edit: Formatting
Edit again: Formatting the quote

Modifié par Panicomatic, 18 mars 2012 - 08:08 .

[Versus Omnibus]

Carnage752 wrote...

the crazy chikn wrote...

To all those losing hope for the fight to retake ME3, we can't give up!  We need to keep our opinions known and circulating throughout the forums and other social/media sites.  If we give up, then we will see the franchise we know and love fade in to time, and the glory of the series will be forever overshadowed by a series of unfortunate, anti-climactic, and unsatisfying endings. 

The end of ME3 did no justice to the series that should have gone down in history as one of the best sci-fi trilogies in ever, but if we keep up the push, if we keep fighting for the endings we know this series deserves, we may yet see our beloved games adorn the halls of fame!  WE can not give up! 

What would your Shepard do? Would he bow down and accept defeat? Would he let his beliefs be compromised by seemingly undefeatable odds?  Or would he stand up, and fight for what he believes in?  My Shepard would fight until the last breath for his beliefs and I will too.  I refuse to let Shepards story, MY story, end like this! 

If the worldwide outcry of countless  voices fades, then we all will have lost; both EA/BioWare and the unsatisfied consumers.  Please, keep fighting for what you belive in, no matter your position in this struggle, and show EA/BioWare that THEIR loyal fans are fighting for their game and ours.

Show them that it is worth fighting for!

   

Bud, I'm not losing it any time soon.

None of us are.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

the crazy chikn wrote...

To all those losing hope for the fight to retake ME3, we can't give up!  We need to keep our opinions known and circulating throughout the forums and other social/media sites.  If we give up, then we will see the franchise we know and love fade in to time, and the glory of the series will be forever overshadowed by a series of unfortunate, anti-climactic, and unsatisfying endings. 

The end of ME3 did no justice to the series that should have gone down in history as one of the best sci-fi trilogies in ever, but if we keep up the push, if we keep fighting for the endings we know this series deserves, we may yet see our beloved games adorn the halls of fame!  WE can not give up! 

What would your Shepard do? Would he bow down and accept defeat? Would he let his beliefs be compromised by seemingly undefeatable odds?  Or would he stand up, and fight for what he believes in?  My Shepard would fight until the last breath for his beliefs and I will too.  I refuse to let Shepards story, MY story, end like this! 

If the worldwide outcry of countless  voices fades, then we all will have lost; both EA/BioWare and the unsatisfied consumers.  Please, keep fighting for what you belive in, no matter your position in this struggle, and show EA/BioWare that THEIR loyal fans are fighting for their game and ours.

Show them that it is worth fighting for!

   

This so this!

Look Bioware is pulling out all the stops because they know as long as we don't lose hope we can not lose.  They are stalling because they believe if they can hold out long enough we will lose hope and give up. She them that we are stronger and smarter then that and that they are wrong.  Do not thouch another EA or Bioware product untill we get new endings DLC.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Carnage752]

cardboardarmor wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

*snip*

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.

In all fairness, Carnage, I'd place the relocking bug as a priority one issue right now.  Losing out on content you paid for because of a defective product is a sight more actionable if unspoken for compared to the endings.

The bad endings only gets them beat in the court of public opinion, after all.

Perhaps I was a little rash. But they better have someone on the issue. All I'm saying.

[Hydralysk]

Just gonna ask this again, if there's anyone here with the skills/time to create some sort of Retake Mass Effect community site I think it would really help our cause. Not something fancy, just a place where we can outline our mission statements and post the old and new articles as they come out and also a link to our Child's Play donation page. This way we don't need to rely on someone having links handy to see how we're progressing.

I think this would go a long way to consolidate our movement under one banner.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 18 mars 2012 - 07:57 .

[Sentr0]

I support this cause but i am still playing multiplayer sorry... what's important is to not give them money

PS: i think the brute objective is gonna be achieved

[zsom]

Boceephus wrote...

I think it's safe to say that if 5 people played or 5 million played, they'd say it was a rousing success and hand out mediocre MP weapons so everyone forgets about this silly "ending thing".

The hope is, if enough people hold the line and abstain from MP this weekend, they'll say it's a rousing success publicly, but privately they'll know something not right in the state of fandom.

And it's even safer to asume that they didn't pick a number we would not reach... 1 million brutes in 2 days isn't that many. I'm pretty sure we achieved that on day 1.

[RedTail F22]

Keep up the insightful post. They really are helpful to those who want to support the movement

[Jamie9]

Sentr0 wrote...

I support this cause but i am still playing multiplayer sorry... what's important is to not give them money

PS: i think the brute objective is gonna be achieved

It would further help the cause if you did not play it, but we can't force you either way, nor would I personally, want to. Time = money. The more we play the more money EA/BioWare will expect to receive from DLC and future games.

[Carnage752]

Hydralysk wrote...

Just gonna ask this again, if there's anyone here with the skills/time to create some sort of Retake Mass Effect community site I think it would really help our cause. Not something fancy, just a place where we can outline our mission statements and post the old and new articles as they come out and also a link to our Child's Play donation page. This way we don't need to rely on someone having links handy to see how we're progressing.

I think this would go a long way to consolidate our movement under one banner.

Facebook is working on that. Don't worry, we will get the call when we are needed.

[R3dlace]

I hope one day people will finish ME3 and be like "Wow, my ending was amazing. I feel accomplished". Even if we are forgotten by the masses as the catalysts (yes, i said it) of those endings, we will know that our dedication made this impact. That our CHOICES have brought change to the Mass Effect world. For 5 years we have chosen our path virtually as Shepard, and now we are making a choice as fans.

You didn't expect us to go silent, did you?

[atghunter]

thoreauscabin wrote...

You're all just posting on a forum. How could this possibly be having any effect on EA? What are you people doing outside of the forum?

It probably feels good to say you're part of some sort of "movement" but so what?

People here have been sharing stories about their reaction and responses, discussing and developing consensus, giving polite advice to others on how they can react (among a host of other things).  In short, people come here to communicate and let others know there are other disenfranchised customers out there.  All in all, it's mostly an impressive group of civil, men and women simply standing up in the marketplace and expressing displeasure towards a company's product.

And if you really do care to know what people are doing, read through this thread, go look at the Child's Play page, or check in with the Retake FB page and you'll see much more than people posting here. 

To me, what feels "good" is having spoken up, watching countless thousands from all over the world use their voice (no matter what side they take) to speak their minds, reading the stories of how people have reacted and what they've done.  I feel even better when I see people adopt civil activism and hope over hopeless apathy and myopic defeatism.

Is it going to have an effect on EA?  Certainly too soon to tell.  But to steal a line from a recent movie:

If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything.

[meteng]

 Nice OP. Not sure about the reasoning behind promising to boycott DLC, though. The implication that 'it is not made yet therefore promising to boycott is not a threat' is overly simplistic. Bioware has clear plans for DLC and would already have included sales in their projections based on ME2.

Further, Bioware's 'Casey letter' indicates that they are hoping to rely on this to defuse the aggravation (or would prefer to, anyway). I think it should be made clear to Bioware that it is not simply a case of players 'wanting more Commander Shepard' but rather wanting an ending that does justice to, and gives back replayability to, the trilogy.

[Optimus J]

Legion211 wrote...

Operation Goliath. Kill 1,000,000 Brutes worldwide.

Total Mission Failure.

Hold the Line.

Why do I have the feeling that Joker will report those numbers?

Modifié par Optimus J, 18 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[lajeokki]

Dunno whether they're waiting for ppl to finish the game or just saying so to come up with their next move. I just hope this whole problem isn't silently swept under the rug when ppl start losing hope or just lose interest. To me personally gaming means alot and ME series especially has special place in my game collection. I'm going to see this whole mess til the very end and my personal opinion on Bioware as the leader of gaming industry goes hand to hand with the ultimate conclusion of ME 3 ending. Hopefully they come up with something more worthy of Mass effect series and ultimately something to please not only us loyal fans but themselves as well.

[Legion211]

Here's what I've seen after watching the endings (yes, I've played Mass Effect, I just don't have as large of a passion for it as you guys do.).

The cinematic was just a color-coded wave of light with no change based on choices you made, it didn't follow up on the stories of people you met, it destroyed the mass-relays (which, when destroyed, wipe out solar systems, and even if not, strand people there. Which means that entire fleet will starve away from their homes on a broken Earth), the Normandy is stranded on SOME planet for some reason, which means they had fled the battle before it was over, and chances are that Garrus and Tali will die, or everyone else will die because they can't eat the same foods and few planets have both dextro and levo amino acid foods in abundance, the three choices it gave you were out of nowhere and without explanation regarding that Star Child or the choices, you didn't get a conversation wheel, and after all the cooperation you fostered, the Citadel is destroyed, fleets are abandoned, and every system is isolated again.

[ket_shee]

This thread is amazing and I can hardly add anything to the conversation that hasn't been said already.

But I did want to stress how important it is to stay civil and respectful, even in the face of those who are not. There have been far too many threads where flame-wars erupt, others' values are disregarded, and expletives are tossed around without any consideration that there may be minors in the thread.  I know there are some people who start vitriolic threads with the underlying intent to aggravate others, but fools are viral for their ability to create other fools by luring them into pointless conflicts. Resist.

On top of that, keep up the humor! The Mass Effect 3 Motivational Thread is an ingenius collection of absurdities and unique perspectives alike. I think those of us who are still angry about the ending (including myself) really need these, just to keep our sanity. Laugh at the absurdities, because it speaks a certain truth about reality. And also about any jokes coming from the pro-ending camp. There is another truth in being able to laugh at yourself.

Have fun and Hold the Line.

Modifié par ket_shee, 18 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[Nightfire78]

Phew... can't keep up with this thread no matter how hard I try... Of course, that's no different than any of the other ME3-ending-related threads I'm trying to keep an eye on. Good job on everyone keeping it civil in here. Seems there were a few moments where escalation would have been easy but was not engaged in so kudos

I'm really surprised that the disappointment of the ending is still lingering on in the back of my mind even though I finished the game over a week ago. I've been playing games for 20 years, so have most of my friends and my fiance even longer than that, and we're all a little dazed because the aftermath of this "ending" is just such a downer (for lack of a better, civil term).

I was in the middle of a ME2 playthrough as preparation for ME3 (I have about 6 Sheps already, but I hadn't managed a full renegade yet and I want to see how that turns out). I can't even bring myself to go back to that; I mean, what's the point? Such a wonderful trilogy, such an awesome universe, such compelling characters, and in the span of 5 minutes any interaction with it/them gets turned into a bad joke: "No, Wrex, this isn't the way. We need to do it the right way for when I destroy the entire universe anyway." "I can't kill the rachni queen now! That has to wait until I doom everyone at the behest of some creepy god-child-ghost-hallucination-AI-thing." or for the "renegades"... "I'll shoot and kill all of you, it'll save you from me blowing you to bits or dooming you to starvation later. You're welcome." -.-

Please just fix it :/

Hold the line!

Modifié par Nightfire78, 18 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[Carnage752]

Legion211 wrote...

Here's what I've seen after watching the endings (yes, I've played Mass Effect, I just don't have as large of a passion for it as you guys do.).

The cinematic was just a color-coded wave of light with no change based on choices you made, it didn't follow up on the stories of people you met, it destroyed the mass-relays (which, when destroyed, wipe out solar systems, and even if not, strand people there. Which means that entire fleet will starve away from their homes on a broken Earth), the Normandy is stranded on SOME planet for some reason, which means they had fled the battle before it was over, and chances are that Garrus and Tali will die, or everyone else will die because they can't eat the same foods and few planets have both dextro and levo amino acid foods in abundance, the three choices it gave you were out of nowhere and without explanation regarding that Star Child or the choices, you didn't get a conversation wheel, and after all the cooperation you fostered, the Citadel is destroyed, fleets are abandoned, and every system is isolated again.

Most of us feel the same way bro!

[Fallenfromthesky]

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

By the way guys, not to excuse Bioware but part of the reason their PR is tightlipped right now might be because they're having issues on various fronts when it comes to ME3. The whole multiplayer kits getting relocked bug, costing some people in excess of $100 real money, is still out there.

Similarly a lot of people are still experiencing difficulties with the multiplayer in the form of frequent disconnects leading to getting no credits, and just plain not being able to connect to friends. Oh, and I suppose there's the whole "Tali's face" blowout.

I'm not an industry veteran like atghunter, but it seems consistent with what I was taught in my corporate communications classes in college that they probably want to address all major issues simultaneously, rather than one at a time. I may be wrong, but couldn't this factor into it taking so long to have any real response that isn't doublespeak?

The kit relocking bug victims have been complaining about lack of decisive responses for over a week now.

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.

It seems to me that some parts of Mass Effect 3 have a slight hint of being unfinished and slapped together at the last minute. most of it is wonderful just a few little things

• Tali's face gaff (Waited 5 years and got a stock model photo. A shame but forgivable)
• Multiplayer problems mentiond above
• Character Face import issues (Don't know if this affects anyone else but I couldn't carry my Shepards face over had to reconstruct it sort of cheapened my experience as it wasn't quite my Shepard.)
• Finally the biggest upset the ending simply felt hasty and unfinisged

[Malchat]

I was ready to wash my hands of this whole thing but talking with a few folks here and reading through this fascinating thread, I've come around.

I want to be part of this movement and add a small voice. Not just for this game but to make a point to the gaming industry at large about their business practices.

Please continue this analysis - it really has a galvanizing effect.

I hope I'm not the only one archiving these posts in case censorship becomes a factor to contend with.