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EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*


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#3601
No_MSG

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zsom wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Great news!  I don't have highspeed so I can't play online but how much does TOR cost a month?  If more and more people do this Bioware will be losing a lot of money not just from Mass Effect three but on a month by month basis for the whole company.  We can win if we stick together and don't cave and don't fall for the spin.


You do realize that with this you are screwing over a bunch of people who had nothing to do with ME, right? Even a bunch of players who will now be stranded on a desolate server with no way to transfer their chars to a more heavily populated one. Great news indeed.. :(


But, as far as I know, we haven't kidnapped anyone.  All people leaving ToR are doing it of their free will.  We're not bringing down servers, or hacking accounts. 

#3602
Arikashika

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Count me in on this.

I truly enjoyed MP in the demo but after completing the game I will not enjoy it at all. The ending made me feel like I've invested all this time in 3 wonderful games only to have it all destroyed in the very last moment. Mass Effect does not deserve an ending like that.

#3603
Fallenfromthesky

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@Syrellaris I agree that asking for bugs to be fixed a week after release is unfeasible. Its just that these will almost certainly be adresssed and fixed long before the ending dicussion is even brought to the table

#3604
InsaneNarwhal

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No_MSG wrote...

zsom wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Great news!  I don't have highspeed so I can't play online but how much does TOR cost a month?  If more and more people do this Bioware will be losing a lot of money not just from Mass Effect three but on a month by month basis for the whole company.  We can win if we stick together and don't cave and don't fall for the spin.


You do realize that with this you are screwing over a bunch of people who had nothing to do with ME, right? Even a bunch of players who will now be stranded on a desolate server with no way to transfer their chars to a more heavily populated one. Great news indeed.. :(


But, as far as I know, we haven't kidnapped anyone.  All people leaving ToR are doing it of their free will.  We're not bringing down servers, or hacking accounts. 


That's not great news that they're getting caught in the backlash of the consumers losing faith in the company and its products, but it may both help EA-Bioware take it more seriously and end up being a temporary thing until a concrete response is given. I hope this doesn't need to go on long enough to ruin that game. :D

#3605
vigna

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Hydralysk wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Just gonna ask this again, if there's anyone here with the skills/time to create some sort of Retake Mass Effect community site I think it would really help our cause. Not something fancy, just a place where we can outline our mission statements and post the old and new articles as they come out and also a link to our Child's Play donation page. This way we don't need to rely on someone having links handy to see how we're progressing.

I think this would go a long way to consolidate our movement under one banner.

Facebook is working on that. Don't worry, we will get the call when we are needed.


Of course facebook is, I swore to myself never to make a facebook account but hearing this has me sorely tempted. I really wish I could blame Bioware for this........so I will! 

For shame Bioware, for shame.:P

Funny, i have a Facebook account and only use it for 'liking' charity things and such. First Time I've used Facebook in about 8 months....

#3606
Beti88

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I'm carefully optimistic about tomorrow. The first bunch of letters and emails will arrive then.

I'd love to see at least and acknowledgment. Darn it, so hard not to get worked up

#3607
Hcjung10

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Hey guys, now that we have a thread that takes a PR / Marketing view of this situation, I want to ask something I did not get a satisfying answer to a week ago.

[ How can EA and BioWare possibly think that this ending would lead to more profits? Bear with me here.

Because, first of all, I believe that the story was admirable for 99.72% of the trilogy (120 hours x 60 minutes = 7200 minutes, 7180 minutes / 7200 minutes = 99.72%). But BioWare has to admit, and everyone, including the apologists, have to admit, the story failed miserably in the last 0.28%.

Ssyyllaarr (or his source) explains in this enlightening post, http://social.biowar...61/100#10029926, that “Mass Effect is a conventional story with conventional expectations. A conventional story, almost all stories, follow a pretty standard plotline: Introduction - Ascending Action - Climax - Descending Action - Resolution... the Citadel sequence is the final part of the descending action and the resolution for both the game and series, the part where the antagonist is finally defeated, the themes and dramatic questions are answered, and the loose ends are tied. Or rather, it should be... the story grows convoluted (once again, this is supposed to be the resolution) at the height of the scene by jarring us out of it with the bizarre, dreamlike sequence... the final choice between three options... creat[e] a massive upheaval of the story world, while being unclear. All of the characters and the entire setting are left to an uncertain and sometimes confusing fate... [n]ew information shouldn't be introduced in a resolution unless it directly resolves something or is quickly resolved itself; definitively, it's the opposite of what a resolution is.” Without a resolution, “Mass Effect 3 completely lacks any sense of ‘ever after.’”

It is this lack of “ever after” that makes the ending so devastatingly bad (and please do not go the post-modern, vague mumbo-jumbo route... BioWare is a game developer not an arthouse). Whether revisionist or non-revisionist, I think all of us are upset because we cannot imagine the future of the Mass Effect universe. What is the universe to be like when the Mass Relays are gone? What is the universe to be like when all synthetics are gone? What is the universe to be like when the difference between organics and synthetics are gone? What is the universe to be like? What is the universe to be like? What is the universe to be like?

Let me tell you why “LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE,” as Mac Walters put it so graciously, is stupid. But here is my spin. As much as the ending is poor in a story point of view, the ending is poor in a marketing point of view. Consider: why would BioWare suddenly create an entirely new universe to base their franchise in? A Mass Effect universe without Mass Effect is not a Mass Effect universe. It is a universe with no unique spin, it is a universe with no emotional attachment from the fans, it is just another universe, an unproven universe. Why would BioWare drive their hugely popular universe, a hugely profitable universe, in a completely new and uncharted direction? Why would BioWare risk so much, and why would EA allow it? Why is the ending a smart marketing choice?

Let me go further. I would argue that the franchise would have been salvageable if the game had ended with Shepard as charred BBQ. I agree that this ending would have been equally as terrible as the current one. However, at least the charred BBQ option preserves the universe that the fans have so grown to love. Because of the additional 20 minutes, the emotional tie developed during the 7180 is nullified. Why develop an ending that forces the players to never again see the universe in the same way? Why take this risk? Why put 10 years of development in the hands of 20 minutes?

If you have any marketing background, please enlighten us. My teenage brain is too primitive and can only think of “any publicity is good publicity.” ]

A little bit further on, I clarified,

[ See, the thing is, I don't believe that BioWare and EA are idiots. I think they are respectable companies that know what they are doing. And when I say respectable companies, I mean, they know how to make money.

I think its impossible for the writers not to recognize that the ending was a massive plot fail. The main reason why I wanted a marketing standpoint is precisely this: everyone at BioWare recognized the plot fail, yet it was still published. Why? Some suits must have thought that the ending would bring more money.

Somebody said that, well Mass Relays are only part of the Universe. Its the characters... Well, the characters are pretty much done for as well. Here is what I was saying: we love the characters in the context of the Universe they are in. When the Universe is fundamentally changed (and I believe that the lack of Mass Relays is pretty fundamental... the mobility to travel anywhere at no time is a major "selling point" of the Universe) the players are not able see the characters in the same light.

What I was getting at is, why take this gamble? Why leave a familiar Universe in ruins, when it is the beloved current Universe that has captures the fan imagination. For example, I haven't encountered much fan fiction (that aren't character studies) that could be possible without Mass Relays or at the very least under the new circumstances given by the ending. I cannot prove this, but could anyone see this sort of ending coming? The ending caught people off guard. Intuitively, this means that the ending was against the fundamental characteristic of the Universe... It yanks customers into uncharted territory. They do not know what to expect from the Universe anymore, hence, they are repelled by it.

This is not so hard to understand. So Why? Why Why Why? Why was this ending allowed? Here is my pseudo-logic that is terrible and unjustifiable but here it goes anyway.

1. The ending was terrible from a story point of view. (Can be contested)
2. The ending was terrible from a marketing point of view. (Can be contested)
3. The ending was unjustifiable.

How can a company justify such a poor ending? This would have me believe either the story was actually NOT terrible, or the marketing potential was actually NOT terrible. I don't see how the story could be any better, but as a layman, I do not see how the marketing potential could be any better, either...

What is the reason, from the financial side, that would bring this ending? ]

Any responses?

#3608
vigna

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Hydralysk wrote...

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

"Truth DLC confirmed false"

https://twitter.com/...035997151232000


I think most people in these forums have realized by now the ending is not a giant marketing move, Bioware just messed up the ending HARD.

This. Hudson admitted it friday .

Modifié par vigna, 18 mars 2012 - 08:26 .


#3609
Syrellaris

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[quote]Carnage752 wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]Carnage752 wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]atghunter wrote...

[quote]Syrellaris wrote...

[quote]Solotalento wrote...

snip


    
While I believe Goliath was probably always planned (and things like the SW weekend were not IMO), it is just as logical that Goliath was a firewall promotion which could be repurposed.  PR folks are paid to plan for contingencies, not just respond to crisis.  To not design long-term sales campaigns forecasting success and failure scenarios would have been illogical. 
 
[/quote]

I can assure you the Star Wars The old Republic weekend was planned. It was announced before mass effect 3 even got released. Subscribers like myself recieved an email about it :)

[/quote]
And now notice how the advertsising for it has stepped up alot?

Just saying, I've never even heard of it till after the ending crisis started.

[/quote]

I think your looking a slight bit to much for something that maybe is not there. The entire SW:ToR game is done by a completely different team from Bioware. The sales and advertisement department of bioware also have nothing to do with the game releases and or development. There job, as in any other company regardless of product, is to advertise and sell the product.

Which is what they have been doing since the release of SW:ToR.  This weekend deal was planned because they noticed it is a good working strategy that Blizzard / Activision applied to world of warcraft, there is no harm in it.

They also advertise a lot more due to a big Content patch (1.2) is upcoming and they want to draw players back into SW:ToR.

This is also the reason why i have been stating that people here on the mass effect boards are trying a little to hard to find reasons to back up there claims for mass effect 3 to the point it perhaps is just getting slightly out of hand.



[/quote]
It's all still Bioware/EA. That free weekend could easily be repurposed for PR purposes, note the increase in advertising for it. So could Operation Goliath.

Is it all just a coincidence? Maybe. But better safe than sorry. And our PR expert mr hunter :P says that repurposement has happened before.

[/quote]

I would call in a coincidence due to the fact that a Single player game and a Massive Multiplayer game gather two complete different crowds. Not to mention all the star wars fans.

Will there be some mass effect fans with them, yes ofcourse but a large majority plays SW:ToR because its star wars and a  MMO.

#3610
FryinHard

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I had to put my comment above the quote because it kept making it contine the list... heh.

Don't for get the day one DLC that was composed of content originally included as part of the game/story. --- This seems to have been forgotten with the ending controversy and Tali's face reveal.

Also my Shepard on XBOX imported but for some reason he had the green reflection of the grass from looking out the window in the first scene on his face the whole game. Like he always had green light reflecting on the contours of his face no matter where he was and in every cutscene.

When I got to the ending and the KID was saying that his solution wouldn't work any more and we had to come up with a new solution. I was thinking ok here it comes I can rebute things with him. But was surprised to find that he had already had a contingency plan in place of solutions all ready for us to pick from. Like "Hey let's work this out and come up with another solution." ... "Oh, wait. I already planned that out, so your imput is negated. Here pick one of the solutions I worked up."

Why did he make it seem like we would hash it out with us and come up with something new? When his whole plan was to pigeon hole you into his already preconcieved solutions...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

By the way guys, not to excuse Bioware but part of the reason their PR is tightlipped right now might be because they're having issues on various fronts when it comes to ME3. The whole multiplayer kits getting relocked bug, costing some people in excess of $100 real money, is still out there.

Similarly a lot of people are still experiencing difficulties with the multiplayer in the form of frequent disconnects leading to getting no credits, and just plain not being able to connect to friends. Oh, and I suppose there's the whole "Tali's face" blowout.

I'm not an industry veteran like atghunter, but it seems consistent with what I was taught in my corporate communications classes in college that they probably want to address all major issues simultaneously, rather than one at a time. I may be wrong, but couldn't this factor into it taking so long to have any real response that isn't doublespeak?

The kit relocking bug victims have been complaining about lack of decisive responses for over a week now.

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.


It seems to me that some parts of Mass Effect 3 have a slight hint of being unfinished and slapped together at the last minute. most of it is wonderful just a few little things

  • Tali's face gaff (Waited 5 years and got a stock model photo. A shame but forgivable)
  • Multiplayer problems mentiond above
  • Character Face import issues (Don't know if this affects anyone else but I couldn't carry my Shepards face over had to reconstruct it sort of cheapened my experience as it wasn't quite my Shepard.)
  • Finally the biggest upset the ending simply felt hasty and unfinisged



#3611
Versus Omnibus

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No_MSG wrote...

zsom wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Great news!  I don't have highspeed so I can't play online but how much does TOR cost a month?  If more and more people do this Bioware will be losing a lot of money not just from Mass Effect three but on a month by month basis for the whole company.  We can win if we stick together and don't cave and don't fall for the spin.


You do realize that with this you are screwing over a bunch of people who had nothing to do with ME, right? Even a bunch of players who will now be stranded on a desolate server with no way to transfer their chars to a more heavily populated one. Great news indeed.. :(


But, as far as I know, we haven't kidnapped anyone.  All people leaving ToR are doing it of their free will.  We're not bringing down servers, or hacking accounts. 


That's virutally all Retake Mass Effect is doing: letting those disappointed in the endings know they aren't alone. If people leave ToR it's because they chose too, not because we told them.

#3612
atghunter

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Syrellaris wrote...

snip

I can assure you the Star Wars The old Republic weekend was planned. It was announced before mass effect 3 even got released. Subscribers like myself recieved an email about it :)


I'm a subscriber and my SW weekend e-mail was dated 3/14/12. :)  Pre-planned firewall, pre-planned promotion or deployed response damage control, take your pick. 

Modifié par atghunter, 18 mars 2012 - 08:25 .


#3613
Michotic

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InsaneNarwhal wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

zsom wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Great news!  I don't have highspeed so I can't play online but how much does TOR cost a month?  If more and more people do this Bioware will be losing a lot of money not just from Mass Effect three but on a month by month basis for the whole company.  We can win if we stick together and don't cave and don't fall for the spin.


You do realize that with this you are screwing over a bunch of people who had nothing to do with ME, right? Even a bunch of players who will now be stranded on a desolate server with no way to transfer their chars to a more heavily populated one. Great news indeed.. :(


But, as far as I know, we haven't kidnapped anyone.  All people leaving ToR are doing it of their free will.  We're not bringing down servers, or hacking accounts. 


That's not great news that they're getting caught in the backlash of the consumers losing faith in the company and its products, but it may both help EA-Bioware take it more seriously and end up being a temporary thing until a concrete response is given. I hope this doesn't need to go on long enough to ruin that game. :D


No one here wants to mess with anyone else's gaming. We are simply making our statement. If there was a major impact in other games well, it just shows how much of the customer base is unhappy with what's going on.

#3614
kyban

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I just wish they didn't give the crew a death sentence on giligans planet.

That said, where do we go from here? What other movements could we do?

#3615
Panicomatic

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No matter how long I think about it I just can't wrap my head around how they sent ME3 out the door thinking that the ending to the game is production worthy. All of this could have been avoided if they had spent more time developing the ending. I wonder how adversely the ending really is affecting their return on investment? I guess there is a silver lining though; Child's play donations are at about $64K right now.

#3616
Syrellaris

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Fallenfromthesky wrote...

@Syrellaris I agree that asking for bugs to be fixed a week after release is unfeasible. Its just that these will almost certainly be adresssed and fixed long before the ending dicussion is even brought to the table


Well there is reason for that. The Bugs can be fixed by the Programmers as it is mainly pieces of code not working correctly. The endings require a different approach.

You need the writers to rewrite the ending to a plausible one. Then you need the artists to draw the concept art for it. Then that gets forwarded to the Animators, who will make animations for it. It then needs to be backed up my sound engineers that will create the voices, sounds etc.

It just takes longer :)

#3617
Carnage752

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@syrellaris
Then we will agree to respectfully disagree. I'm keeping wary for any PR tricks from Bioware, and while I hope they are sincerely reaching out to us, I'm not budging until we get a confirmation on the ending DLC.

#3618
Carnage752

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Syrellaris wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

@Syrellaris I agree that asking for bugs to be fixed a week after release is unfeasible. Its just that these will almost certainly be adresssed and fixed long before the ending dicussion is even brought to the table


Well there is reason for that. The Bugs can be fixed by the Programmers as it is mainly pieces of code not working correctly. The endings require a different approach.

You need the writers to rewrite the ending to a plausible one. Then you need the artists to draw the concept art for it. Then that gets forwarded to the Animators, who will make animations for it. It then needs to be backed up my sound engineers that will create the voices, sounds etc.

It just takes longer :)

Correct. We are just afraid they will use the bugs as intentional "delays" to keep them from deciding on the ending situation.

#3619
vigna

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FryinHard wrote...

I had to put my comment above the quote because it kept making it contine the list... heh.

Don't for get the day one DLC that was composed of content originally included as part of the game/story. --- This seems to have been forgotten with the ending controversy and Tali's face reveal.

Also my Shepard on XBOX imported but for some reason he had the green reflection of the grass from looking out the window in the first scene on his face the whole game. Like he always had green light reflecting on the contours of his face no matter where he was and in every cutscene.

When I got to the ending and the KID was saying that his solution wouldn't work any more and we had to come up with a new solution. I was thinking ok here it comes I can rebute things with him. But was surprised to find that he had already had a contingency plan in place of solutions all ready for us to pick from. Like "Hey let's work this out and come up with another solution." ... "Oh, wait. I already planned that out, so your imput is negated. Here pick one of the solutions I worked up."

Why did he make it seem like we would hash it out with us and come up with something new? When his whole plan was to pigeon hole you into his already preconcieved solutions...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Enichan wrote...

By the way guys, not to excuse Bioware but part of the reason their PR is tightlipped right now might be because they're having issues on various fronts when it comes to ME3. The whole multiplayer kits getting relocked bug, costing some people in excess of $100 real money, is still out there.

Similarly a lot of people are still experiencing difficulties with the multiplayer in the form of frequent disconnects leading to getting no credits, and just plain not being able to connect to friends. Oh, and I suppose there's the whole "Tali's face" blowout.

I'm not an industry veteran like atghunter, but it seems consistent with what I was taught in my corporate communications classes in college that they probably want to address all major issues simultaneously, rather than one at a time. I may be wrong, but couldn't this factor into it taking so long to have any real response that isn't doublespeak?

The kit relocking bug victims have been complaining about lack of decisive responses for over a week now.

True. But their biggest chastisement is the ending. It should be their biggest concern.


It seems to me that some parts of Mass Effect 3 have a slight hint of being unfinished and slapped together at the last minute. most of it is wonderful just a few little things

  • Tali's face gaff (Waited 5 years and got a stock model photo. A shame but forgivable)
  • Multiplayer problems mentiond above
  • Character Face import issues (Don't know if this affects anyone else but I couldn't carry my Shepards face over had to reconstruct it sort of cheapened my experience as it wasn't quite my Shepard.)
  • Finally the biggest upset the ending simply felt hasty and unfinisged

My shepard import was only slightly altered and looked horrible so i had to change to default...

#3620
InsaneNarwhal

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Carnage752 wrote...

@syrellaris
Then we will agree to respectfully disagree. I'm keeping wary for any PR tricks from Bioware, and while I hope they are sincerely reaching out to us, I'm not budging until we get a confirmation on the ending DLC.


This.

I don't think anyone honestly expects an overnight fix. But darn it, admit your fan base is unhappy, and that you're going to fix it. XD

#3621
Syrellaris

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atghunter wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

snip

I can assure you the Star Wars The old Republic weekend was planned. It was announced before mass effect 3 even got released. Subscribers like myself recieved an email about it :)


I'm a subscriber and my SW weekend e-mail was dated 3/14/12. :)  Pre-planned firewall, pre-planned promotion or deployed response damage control, take your pick. 


I really need to get used to american dates :P I keep thinking what the eff is the 14th month. Anyway, mines dates 6/3/12 (or 3/6/12 for the USA )

#3622
No_MSG

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kyban wrote...

I just wish they didn't give the crew a death sentence on giligans planet.

That said, where do we go from here? What other movements could we do?


Well, I felt the ending for Final Fantasy IX was kind of the same way, with a last boss from out of nowhere.  I wonder if we could get Square Enix to change that...

Seriously, though, I'll go back to my initial plan of advocating Mass Effect like a madman.  I've suspended my frenzied marketing until I have a game I can support.

#3623
Innocent Bystander

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Syrellaris wrote...

Solotalento wrote...

snip


    
While I believe Goliath was probably always planned (and things like the SW weekend were not IMO), it is just as logical that Goliath was a firewall promotion which could be repurposed.  PR folks are paid to plan for contingencies, not just respond to crisis.  To not design long-term sales campaigns forecasting success and failure scenarios would have been illogical. 
 


I can assure you the Star Wars The old Republic weekend was planned. It was announced before mass effect 3 even got released. Subscribers like myself recieved an email about it :)

Sorry to disapoint, but you got "invite 3 friends for 7 days trial", as I did, not free weekend.

Modifié par Luyza, 18 mars 2012 - 08:29 .


#3624
Hydralysk

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Just for a bit of humour, this skit seems like it fits perfectly for the agrument that you can't change art. Is there anything John Cleese isn't relevant in?

#3625
InsaneNarwhal

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No_MSG wrote...

kyban wrote...

I just wish they didn't give the crew a death sentence on giligans planet.

That said, where do we go from here? What other movements could we do?


Well, I felt the ending for Final Fantasy IX was kind of the same way, with a last boss from out of nowhere.  I wonder if we could get Square Enix to change that...

Seriously, though, I'll go back to my initial plan of advocating Mass Effect like a madman.  I've suspended my frenzied marketing until I have a game I can support.


Don't derail the thread please. :whistle: