9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Kilshrek]

Panicomatic wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Just for a bit of humour, this skit seems like it fits perfectly for the agrument that you can't change art. Is there anything John Cleese isn't relevant in?

Very interesting skit. Too bad we couldn't see the kangaroo before buying ME3.

I may not know much about art, but I know what I bloody like!

John Cleese. A finer comic there is not.

That kind of sums up the endings as well doesn't it?

Artistic licence? Pish, give us 4 endings, one where Shepard rides off into the sunset with the LI. One where those grimdark lovers see the galaxy in flames. One where the Reapers win. One where Shepard dies and the galaxy wins.

Problem solved.

[vigna]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Graphf wrote...

Jarret Lee wrote:
"These are good people who care deeply about the work they do."

This was taken from a post his talking about how Bioware cares.

1st. LOL

2nd, If they care why do that with the endings making all the choices we've ever made in the game pointless?

3rd. The reveal of Tali's face, the laziest photoshop I have ever seen done. This should have been a monumental reveal and instead it looks like some high-school photoshop job. We should have seen her face in game or not at all.

4th. The size of the squad. why is it smaller? They said because there would be more interaction and depth but that simply isn't true. There is the same level there has always been. There should have been more characters, it would have made more of a difference in who died and lived in ME2. But of course this is just another opportunity for Bioware to cut corners.

Your last point is actually a bigger issue for me than the endings. Because it makes me feel like, as a consumer and a major fan of bioware, I was just downright lied too. If anything since so many of the conversations boiled down to the NPC just talking at you, or listening to conversations between crew members, it seemed like there was less depth than in ME2 and ME1. I just don't see how they can claim otherwise. To me that was the biggest dissapointment considering the depth I've come to expect from bioware games.

Also the squad make up was just ridiculously unbalanced (hella tech heavy and low on biotic squad member options)

Without FTAshes it is an even smaller squad...yikes.

[vigna]

Darkeus wrote...

MajorUhlan wrote...

Hello all, Major reporting in and still Holding the Line.

Found a cool article from the California Literary Review about how Mass Effect 3 effectively, in it's final moments, committed "storytelling suicide".

Thought I'd share the link and a snippet:
http://calitreview.com/24673

Without giving anything away, (directly, as all subsequent links will contain some spoilers) the ending, by which I mean the final five to ten minutes, of Mass Effect 3 is easily the worst finale I’ve seen compared to the preceding quality that came before it – in any medium. At literally every level, it’s objectively terrible.
Sloppy execution that reuses art assets reveals that it’s a hurried inclusion. The under thought and over pretentious dialogue does nothing but create bizarre, confusing plot holes. It even commits the same sin The Devil Inside did earlier this year, and has the gall to add an advertisement by the producers at the end of the credits, which is frankly insulting.
Far more importantly though, it betrays key themes and values well established by the series thus far. Past player choice impacting the shape of events is negated in favor of an arbitrary and poorly explained “pick your favorite color” moment. Science fiction justification in an otherwise material world is abandoned for magical deism, since quite literally, a god in a machine appears. Unification through altruism and sacrifice is thrown out for pure nihilism: each of the choices you’re forced to make results in Shepard committing some level of genocide or another, with the benefits removed from any relatable emotional touchstone to the intangible space of far flung statistics. It even manages to make The Reapers, one of the more imposing forces of antagonism in recent memory, come across as foolish pawns...
Topping all of this is off, the entire affair seems to be a vain attempt at symbolism ala the similarly jarring conclusion to 2001: A Space Odyssey rather than offering even the minutest form of concrete closure. As there is no novel to turn to that explains what they were trying to attain and the steaming mess that exists is as disconnected from sense as it is, the endeavor rings hollow as metaphor. To quote Roger Ebert for a moment:
“If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn’t.”

Hope you enjoy, and as it is hard to keep up with this thread moving so fast, hopefully everything has been going well.
Hold the Line!

edit: formatting

I linked that a few pages back but thanks for reposting it!  This thread moves fast!

So did I a few pages before you.

[lambej]

I just spent 30 minutes figuring out how to register my game here just so I can post.

I also want to say I'm all for sad endings. Heck, I picked the suicide option in DA1 even though there were "happier" endings. I was of course was quite sad, but the end made sense within the game, and I didn't wish I chose something else. In fact, I thought it was a great ending, and I got a little misty eyed.

ME3 however, the ending makes NO SENSE whatsoever. It throws away all convention, and seems thrown together in 5 minutes. There are so many flagrant plot holes, it's obviously a complete punt.

I've bought every game from Bioware since BG1 (I'm old) and if this isn't resolved I'll probably never buy another. I can't believe the game studio I know and love would see fit to ship something like this.

[People4Peace]

Tyrannis Vos wrote...

 I'm sorry if anyone has seen this or it has already been posted, but I don't see the harm in posting this again. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT!

Someone did a complete breakdown of why the ending just does not make sense or offer closure. He broke down every aspect and flipped it over. It's a great read and reminds us why we are holding the line.

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Retake Mass Effect 3!

This is excellent! I am assuming it has been tweeted or sent to Bioware already?

If not, it really needs to be!

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Beti88 wrote...

My passionate hatred for the endings has been replaced by utter sadness at this point.

I fear that if we don't get results soon most of us will grow tired of this and our numbers (and more importantly, our voice) will diminish at an alarming rate.

If we've put over 100 hours into mass effect, and been willing to raise over 60k in charity in such a short time, I don't see us disbanding anytime soon.

I'm going to see though through to the end, regardless of it's outcome.

As will I.  Bioware is hoping we will give up that is why they are stalling because they know if we don't we will win.  We can only defeat ourselves,don't let that happen.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[thrashmental]

So last year around christmas I did not take any days off from work even though I needed the rest.
I always planned to take a whole week off with ME3 to rest my body and decompress. Enjoy my favorite universe that I've been a part of from day one.

I'm playing the game, I'm loving it.
I've never actually laughed out loud or really cried because of things happening in Mass Effect.
Don't get me wrong, I've felt sad and happy all through the two first games.
But somehow this third installment really stepped up the story, characters and writing to move me in a way I never thought possible.
And Kai Lang, when he got away with the prothean data I so desperatly needed.
I've never been so mad, so hungry for revenge even though I played paragorn I wanted to make him pay dearly.
Garrus actually made me feel better, like a real friend.
And Ashley, so beautiful and strong.
I could go on and on... but let's move on.
I invest in my story, my shepard. The first of many I believe, 'cause I have so many saved from previous games. I want to play out every story, every scenario and every ending. Good or bad...

However (!) the ending came, and man I was completely destroyed. I've never felt so helpless.
No matter what I do, I doom the galaxy, I doom the mass effect universe. Shepard dies, I die...

I have no will, no urge, no point, no reason to play this game or ME 1 & 2. It all ends the same way.
In a bleak, forced, futile, crushing way.

I'm very unhappy, this week was supposed to be a happy week. Now I'm actually depressed, I feel apathy. Nothing really matters right now in my life. Work is just work, friends and family don't understand this pain. They never invested this much time and money into something like Mass Effect.

All I have deep deep down in the void that is my heart. Is one star, a shimmering star of hope that they will fix the ending. Please...

I am a tired, beaten up young man of 27 years old. Holding the line, leaning on all of you for support. You give me strength, I will never give up because of you my fellow gamers, and dare I say... friends.

[thrashmental]

Edit: double post

Modifié par thrashmental, 18 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Tyrannis Vos]

People4Peace wrote...

Tyrannis Vos wrote...

 I'm sorry if anyone has seen this or it has already been posted, but I don't see the harm in posting this again. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT!

Someone did a complete breakdown of why the ending just does not make sense or offer closure. He broke down every aspect and flipped it over. It's a great read and reminds us why we are holding the line.

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Retake Mass Effect 3!

This is excellent! I am assuming it has been tweeted or sent to Bioware already?

If not, it really needs to be!

I've sent it to them, but it wouldn't hurt for them to receive it from multiple people! :happy:

[dmalicious]

Beti88 wrote...

My passionate hatred for the endings has been replaced by utter sadness at this point.

I fear that if we don't get results soon most of us will grow tired of this and our numbers (and more importantly, our voice) will diminish at an alarming rate.

We waited over 5 years to get to this point, no? I think Mass Effect fans can stand to wait a little longer to see Shepard's story really end.

[Enichan]

zsom wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

zsom wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Great news!  I don't have highspeed so I can't play online but how much does TOR cost a month?  If more and more people do this Bioware will be losing a lot of money not just from Mass Effect three but on a month by month basis for the whole company.  We can win if we stick together and don't cave and don't fall for the spin.

You do realize that with this you are screwing over a bunch of people who had nothing to do with ME, right? Even a bunch of players who will now be stranded on a desolate server with no way to transfer their chars to a more heavily populated one. Great news indeed..

But, as far as I know, we haven't kidnapped anyone.  All people leaving ToR are doing it of their free will.  We're not bringing down servers, or hacking accounts. 

Yes, but cheering on as someone entirely innocent gets screwed and actively encouraging it is still pretty low.

I don't think anyone here needs to feel guilty about not spending their money somewhere. In fact, nobody here should have to justify anything. Just like I won't harp on someone for playing multiplayer despite hating the ending, ditching your SWTOR account is just another way of making your voice heard and speaking with your wallet.

Yeah, it negatively impacts an unrelated part of the same business, and that's sad, but judging people because they no longer feel comfortable supporting the whole of a company seems a bit harsh too. If I patron a cafe where I really like the waiters but the guy behind the bar is a total jerk and I stop going there, the waiters lose my tips, but that doesn't make me a horrible person.

[Emberwake]

It occurred to me last night that one of the more powerful tools we have at our disposal is Google. If searches for Mass Effect 3 turn up links to criticism of the ending, we will definitely have their attention. EA's marketing department will definitely notice if this happens, and if the problem doesn't go away, they'll be on the phone to Bioware pretty damn fast with a message to "fix it".

If we can get EA's attention, they'll want the problem gone. EA shelled out a fortune for Bioware because the name prints money. Bad press could cost them a fortune. If Bioware isn't scrambling to fix the ending yet, they ought to be soon. Mass Effect will go down in history as that really great series with a terrible ending.

Hold the line.

[Panicomatic]

[quote]Fallenfromthesky wrote...

[quote]Panicomatic wrote...

[quote]Zhijn wrote...

[quote]Panicomatic wrote...

No matter how long I think about it I just can't wrap my head around how they sent ME3 out the door thinking that the ending to the game is production worthy. All of this could have been avoided if they had spent more time developing the ending. I wonder how adversely the ending really is affecting their return on investment? I guess there is a silver lining though; Child's play donations are at about $64K right now.[/quote]

EA's march fiscal. Thats why. Out of time.

Deadlines. =(

[/quote]

You're right, as depressing as that is. Now the situation is so much more... complicated.
[/quote]

Ultimately everything boils down to profit. Massive demand for product but companies have no profit from product, product won't be supplied the law of supply and demand 

What we need to do is to make our protest aims commercially viable or convince EA that fixing Mass Effect 3 is something they can profit from.

I know some people won't like that but there not really any other option if they don't think changing the ending is profitable they simply won't do it regardless of what we say.
[/quote]

People have been defending the ending saying that it's art. If the paintbrush was forced to paint an incomplete picture by the company, is the art still considered art? If the relationship between the art and the medium is effected by the investor, then isn't the art transformed into a product? As a consumer of that product are we not entitled to receive the product that was marketed and advertised to us? 

Now don't get me wrong, this game is defintiely art. It has some very beautiful and gripping scenes, and I was enthralled. But under the logic used in this quote: 
[quote]Panicomatic wrote...

No matter how long I think about it I just can't wrap my head around how they sent ME3 out the door thinking that the ending to the game is production worthy. All of this could have been avoided if they had spent more time developing the ending. I wonder how adversely the ending really is affecting their return on investment? I guess there is a silver lining though; Child's play donations are at about $64K right now.[/quote]

EA's march fiscal. Thats why. Out of time. 

Deadlines. =(

[/quote]
would that not constitute that the art was manipulated by external sources prior to its creation? What is it that we are doing now? We're trying to manipulate the art after its creation, to extend and build upon what is already there. So as a point of being an art piece, does the boundary of acceptable change assert itself based on a timline? Is it still not the same thing to change art, regardless if the change happens prior to or after its creation? And if so how does being a consumer of a product fit into this equation -- because if the artist is censored by an investor and time constraints and profit projections does it not make the game more of a product then an artists creation? Which has more weight, and why? 

Modifié par Panicomatic, 18 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[Demarco09]

Midasmistake wrote...

I have to admit that I'm a little worried about this getting out of hand. I've been a Bioware fan for a long time, I bought most of their games and my faith and love for this company was the reason I became a game design major. I have to say that like everyone here I felt betrayed with the ending, and my view of Bioware had already been tarnished with the released of DA2 and DA:O DLC. But now I'm more worried for the actual employees, writers and artist that worked on ME3. I cannot help but feel bad for them. They worked hard on this series and they love it as much as we do or even more since this is their vision and creation. I know I feel bad after a day of bad critiques I cannot even begin to imagine a week of thousands of people criticizing my work. IDK just wanted to give my view on the matter. Lets just hope this gets resolved in a timely manner and that in the long run we don't hurt the company we love.

^THIS!  You said it perfectly imo, I honestly love Bioware, always have. I don't want to hurt them, I just hope they can see why all of us are feeling this way and do their honest best to try and change it for the better.

 I wish the best of luck to Bioware honestly, and I hope they take all of these emotional pleas as a huge compliment that their fans actually love this game so much that they actually CARE. 

ME3 actually lived up to everything I wanted it be and more, except that the ending left me with questions and unhappiness.  I actually like the endings we have, but I hope that we can get another added one that leaves us happy and gives us that reaction to *sigh* after the epilogue crosses the scene.

Actually... I would LOVE to have the same reaction to ME3's endings as I did with ME1's.  Now THAT gave me goosebumps, joy and butterflies!  I just want to know that I can let Shep live along with his crew, and still hoping for a cut scene with our LI's would be absolutely fantastic.

You guys are doing great, keep it up! 

Hold the line!!!!!

Modifié par Demarco09, 18 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

thrashmental wrote...

Stuff

I couldn't do anything at work the day after.. the ending happened..

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[ahandsomeshark]

vigna wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Graphf wrote...

Jarret Lee wrote:
"These are good people who care deeply about the work they do."

This was taken from a post his talking about how Bioware cares.

1st. LOL

2nd, If they care why do that with the endings making all the choices we've ever made in the game pointless?

3rd. The reveal of Tali's face, the laziest photoshop I have ever seen done. This should have been a monumental reveal and instead it looks like some high-school photoshop job. We should have seen her face in game or not at all.

4th. The size of the squad. why is it smaller? They said because there would be more interaction and depth but that simply isn't true. There is the same level there has always been. There should have been more characters, it would have made more of a difference in who died and lived in ME2. But of course this is just another opportunity for Bioware to cut corners.

Your last point is actually a bigger issue for me than the endings. Because it makes me feel like, as a consumer and a major fan of bioware, I was just downright lied too. If anything since so many of the conversations boiled down to the NPC just talking at you, or listening to conversations between crew members, it seemed like there was less depth than in ME2 and ME1. I just don't see how they can claim otherwise. To me that was the biggest dissapointment considering the depth I've come to expect from bioware games.

Also the squad make up was just ridiculously unbalanced (hella tech heavy and low on biotic squad member options)

Without FTAshes it is an even smaller squad...yikes.

Yeah I thought people were making too big of a dlc of day one dlc prior to ME3 coming out. Then after actually playing through the campaign I was astounded by how much of a role he played and how much of a difference in made on the main story-line. I literally can't imagine playing the game without it, where as as much as I love Kasumi/LoTS/Zaeed etc the game doesn't seem incomplete without them.

And as to the original point I wouldn't even care about the endings if I wasn't so in love with the rest of the series, including most of ME3. Even with the bugs and the squad size I thought ME3 was the best game I had ever played up until the endings. Even now I'd say in terms of game play, specifically combat, there is pretty much no game I can think of that comes close to ME3. I don't think people would be half as upset if ME1, and ME2, and most of ME3 hadn't raised the bar so incredibly high. Any other game and I would have just traded it in and been done with it after the end. But I don't want that for Mass Effect, I want to feel like I have a reason to go back and play ME1 and ME2 and import new saves. And with the current ending I just don't feel that. That's why I and I assume a ton of other posters, continue to come to this site to read and try and spread information about the "takebackME3" movements.

[Darkeus]

vigna wrote...

So did I a few pages before you.

Like I said, fast moving thread!!! 

[Aligalipe]

dmalicious wrote...

Beti88 wrote...

My passionate hatred for the endings has been replaced by utter sadness at this point.

I fear that if we don't get results soon most of us will grow tired of this and our numbers (and more importantly, our voice) will diminish at an alarming rate.

We waited over 5 years to get to this point, no? I think Mass Effect fans can stand to wait a little longer to see Shepard's story really end.

It doesn't matter that much anymore, because If they don't fix the ending, they' ll lose their fans, even if the hatred gets diminish. They DON'T want that. They need us.

[The Final Few]

I believe that currently Bioware is trying to ride out the storm in hopes that the flame burns itself out. We can't let that happen. We have to get the message across that the fans, the ones who have followed the series from day one, the ones who put their hard earned money into the series, are not going to be ignored and have a right to be heard.

We are not a vocal minority, or a non vocal minority. The members upset with the endings are the majority. I have brought many of my friends into the Mass Effect universe with ME3. They don't visit this site. They don't care about the series like I do. They are playing it because they have seen how much I enjoy it.

But I have heard their opinions on the game, my friends who don't own another Bioware game, question the ending. It confused them. They see some of the problems I see.

We have to make Bioware realize that we are not the only ones who are upset. We must hold the line.

[Carnage752]

Stay on topic people. We will win one war at time, and hold one line at a time.

[Marcin K]

HOLD THE LINE until all is good and one day longer if it isn't hold the line till Armageddon and then A WEEK LONGER

[Utopianus]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Utopianus wrote...

Hi
there, all. I'm new to the forums, but not new to the game, I suppose.
Having watched quite a major proportion of the first two ME games and
have the rest filled out by rants by my friend, a die-hard ME fan, I had
been convinced that ME is indeed the most unique and certain very fun
and captivating game for the past decade, and made my first ever
pre-order of a game, that of ME3 Collector's Edition - importing a
character from my friend's ME1~2 game which I had been a backseat driver
in creating, thus I was emotionally invested. Having shut myself out of
all things ME related so I don't get spoiled and having now finished
the game I was left floundering for answers - not ones for the questions
and choices that were never there at the last 10 minutes, but how could
such a stellar performance of a game and franchise possibly end on such
a bad note. That's when I stumbled across this thread, and having
lurked for a while, decided that I should let you guys know that I fully
support your cause, though I will declare that I am of the opinion that
the game has already been ruined and that even if a DLC was released to
fix it, there would not be the same feeling of satisfaction at the end
as compared to if the game had not originally had the bad climax.
However as I allowed myself to be exposed to more "spoilers" after
finishing the game, and finding out about the controversy surrounding
the day-one DLC and the less than satisfactory response from BioWare
regarding the anticlimatic ending, I have come to believe what you guys
are doing is great, so keep it up and Hold The Line!![smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Sorry for the rambling, it's early morning.

EDIT: Just
like to add that I had stopped playing SP and MP (I actually quite
liked it, but oh well), am never going to buy ME and ME2 because I have
lost incentive to play them, and I will probably not bother trying out
other BioWare titles such as Dragon Age and Knights of the Old Republic.

wait
have you never played ME1 or ME2? As angry as I am about the ME3
endings I would still encourage anyone who's never played them to play
them. The only issue is it will make the sting of ME3 even more
apparent. 

I've "played" ME1 and ME2, in that it was played for me, by my friend, and I was the backseat driver sitting beside him, enjoying the "show" as a movie. He was recommending the game to me and made a new Shepard in ME1 to my tailoring to show me what the game was like, and let me do the decisions. So I guess I was almost as emotionally invested in the game as those who had actually played the whole thing - I was certainly excited enough to pre-order the Collector's Edition - I've never pre-ordered anything before, let alone a game, and that says alot about my excitement for it, so yeah, the ME3 ending was a huge let-down to me.

Modifié par Utopianus, 18 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[Amagoi]

People4Peace wrote...

Tyrannis Vos wrote...

 I'm sorry if anyone has seen this or it has already been posted, but I don't see the harm in posting this again. PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT!

Someone did a complete breakdown of why the ending just does not make sense or offer closure. He broke down every aspect and flipped it over. It's a great read and reminds us why we are holding the line.

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Retake Mass Effect 3!

This is excellent! I am assuming it has been tweeted or sent to Bioware already?

If not, it really needs to be!

I vote for this to be our manifesto! We can launch a second letter campaign and snail-mail it to Bioware and EA.

[vigna]

Bachuck, here is the second ATGHunter post after the initial one if you feel it adds to the evolving history at all you may want to add it. It may not add anything except to show how they followed trends.

"atghunter wrote...

Tallrickruush:

At least at this point,
I'm pretty sure we're past the first standard corporate counter-moves.
Fewer and fewer "attack" articles are appearing against the unhappy fan
base and more are at least acknowledging there may be some validity to
the complaints (a standard paradigm shift to the center by the media to
try and come out on the winning side)

EA knows they have a
problem and it's not going away. Now it just comes down to the economic
fallout and cost assessment. I'll admit, this is an incredible thing
to watch as someone who studied corporate response tactics years ago.
The social media power aspect of a situation like this is perhaps
unwieldy, fickle, and as unpredictable as a Reaper on Red Bull! But
impressive nonetheless!

What I find most fascinating is that
groups like Take Back Mass Effect are so quickly organized (before the
internet these campaigned had to be created by letter-writing, phones
and slow media attention sometimes taking months) that tried-and-true
corporate counter-measures are simply outmaneuvered. As an old gamer,
I'm in awe of the rapid deployment of market forces the internet in
conjunction with 24 hour news cycle allows.

A good recent case
study on this and how the tactics play out is Mr. Limbaugh's recent
gaffe here in the U.S. After loosing roughly 100 sponsors, he's now on
“vacation”.

And you can bet they shut down the boards temporarily
because someone just turned this chess game onto the floor. Release a
statement deflecting the source and not the content and go back into
damage control mode.

Hold The Line"