9972 réponses à ce sujet

[ArmyKnifeX]

Boceephus wrote...

About the walkout.

That might be nice if you have at least a quarter of the people in the hall on your side, but if we only manage to get a dozen or so people they'll look kinda ridiculous and paint us as kids not willing to hear the other side as someone mentioned.

It would squander the opportunity to hear what they have to say and then be able to ask questions in a very public forum which would be a win, even if they're brushed aside by PR doublespeak.

Thank you, I've been saying this as well. I doubt we'll have more than a dozen people who want to get organized as well. But the T-Shirts might be more popular than I realize!

[c3pu2]

Boceephus wrote...

About the walkout.

That might be nice if you have at least a quarter of the people in the hall on your side, but if we only manage to get a dozen or so people they'll look kinda ridiculous and paint us as kids not willing to hear the other side as someone mentioned.

It would squander the opportunity to hear what they have to say and then be able to ask questions in a very public forum which would be a win, even if they're brushed aside by PR doublespeak.

your right walking is not a good idea if you do you look stupid if they keep deflecting the same question 100 times they look like idiots

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Knife you don't have the authority to do that yet.

Ehm, excuse me? I've been an active participant in these boards since nearly day one after the release of the game. I wrote what seems to be the most popular mission statement thus far.

I also have been working hard to organize a PAX East Group and did so very early on.

I'd also like to point out how so much of this movement has been from self-appointed authority that has later been proven through demonstrating capacity.

Guys please don't start fighting that is what bioware and the people who support them want.  We are all just fans saying that Bioware has lost our trust and will not get any more of our money until they get it back. Please we are so close to victory as long as we don't fight each other we will win.  Please don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[mumwaldee369]

Boceephus wrote...

About the walkout.

That might be nice if you have at least a quarter of the people in the hall on your side, but if we only manage to get a dozen or so people they'll look kinda ridiculous and paint us as kids not willing to hear the other side as someone mentioned.

It would squander the opportunity to hear what they have to say and then be able to ask questions in a very public forum which would be a win, even if they're brushed aside by PR doublespeak.

Or maybe it'll get a reporter to ask them why they're doing it and what they want.

[Carnage752]

vigna wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

It's just odd that someone who isn't interested in what you're trying to do sticks around for 160 pages.  Call me paranoid.

Walde. Calm down. He is asking questions.

No, he's spreading FUD.  Fear, uncertainty and doubt.  Another PR tool.

thank you..no one listens to me.

If he is then we will respond with the civility that keeps this whole movement going.

[Darkeus]

And the arguments between each other are starting again

Guys, LinksOcarina does ask some valid questions. I am not sure if they apply with this particular movement but they are very valid questions.

So everybody calm down, take a deep breath and refocus.

It is not a bad idea to go to PAX and have your say, but Links is right, it has to be organized. One bad step, one idiot in the crowd claiming to be us, and it is back to the media calling us rabid gamers and whiners. If people are going to PAX, then it needs to be organized and there has to be a consistent goal.

Or otherwise it will be a disaster.

Modifié par Darkeus, 19 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[Elvwood]

I am not a forums type of person. I usually go to them if I am stuck on a game
and do not really comment all that much or read that much because I usually
see topics resulting in name calling matches.
After playing ME3 I came here to see if I was the only one that felt the way I did about the ending.

I was shocked when I saw all the posts. I Have been reading as much as I can.
I have found a warm place to go after such a cold ending, and that is due to the people on this board

I just wanted you to know that no matter what the outcome is.
I have found solace here.
All of you have taken a bad ending and turned it into a beautiful beginning
You should be proud of what you have accomplished
Thank you all

Hold The Line

[ImpudentInfidel]

A bit of information that I think changes things a bit; an ending with a lot of what people are demanding already exists. The old script version of the Star Child scene they cut fills in most of the plot holes and explains the options, if not the Normandy stuff. The Mass Relays are only destroyed in the Destruction ending too. It's all in the script that leaked before launch.

I put it all together in another post at http://social.biowar...4299/1#10215581, but the thread got buried in about 30 seconds.

[LinksOcarina]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
It is indeed. 

Again, as someone who's actually attened a PAX East event before I can tell you this is actually not very constructive to the nature of the event and will leave a LOT of people miffed. It's better to simply ask predetermined questions politely, wait for the reply, thank the speaker, and calmly retake your seat. Sitting in the theater as a group, listening, appluading, and generally being polite, maybe even enthusiastic about the ME universe, is going to get us much farther than a walk-out that will take seats away from convention attendees who may have waited for 2+ hours in a line.

We're not protesting the entirety of Mass Effect, remember. We're just protesting this ending and the treatment BioWare/EA have been giving us.

I agree, its hard to organize something like that.

Like I said, I hope you can do it. I am just really worried about  the reaction answers may get. It's kind of why I liked the idea of a walkout, it sends a message directly.

Although I see your point on it being a problem otherwise. 

[Emberwake]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

Oh it's fine. Ive been called worse.


That was really the only question I had, along with the warning. As I said, if you want to set up an interview, have your PR/spokesperson contact me, and well set something up.

just be warned, I will be asking tough questions. 

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

I apologize if you've been poorly treated in this thread, but it certainly seems like you've just muscled your way into this thread and told people "it's either my way or the highway". I understand you may have organized protests before, but that methodology is not going to get you anywhere with us. Please come at this from an angle of discussion rather than simply telling us what to do.

 

I get that. Like I said though, it was a friendly warning. 

Part of the problem, Links, is that your advise has been very condescending. You are assuming outcomes that no one has even approached, and passed judgement on the actions of others. They are reacting negatively because you, even in trying to help, are provoking them.

As for your question about leadership, while your point is valid overall, why would a movement without any funding need a treasurer? Why would a movement without meetings need a secretary? If you  are about to reply with an answer like, "Thats my point, without funding and meetings you won't succeed," then I'll say that you should simply have suggested that the movement organize, get funded, and schedule meetings.

Say what you mean, think about how other people will perceive it.

Hold the line.

Modifié par Lochias WH, 19 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Sorry. But I don't want this to go the way of OCW wwith a bunch of wannabe leaders and spokesmen coming out of the woodwork. I'll let Buchaka talk to mr link.

I don't want this to go the way of OWS either, but I highly doubt it will. We have a clear goal in mind. People who are capable of taking responsibility have been assuming it. The leadership and organizational structure is distributed, yes, but this allows us to hit multiple fronts at once.

If you doubt my capacity please send me a PM and we can discuss it.

Messaging now.

[Lazarus Cricket]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Concerning PAX:

Well, considering that yes, one guy can completely screw the whole thing for everyone, handing EA a PR victory they didn't earn, my question is...

Would EA plant someone in the crowd to make a complete tool of themselves to give us bad press?

Because what's more feasible? Making a multimillion dollar DLC, or paying one guy sixty bucks to scream really loud in a public place?

We can deal with the situation if that happens.

If I may ask... How?

I have a suggestion, if I may...

THE RETAKE ME3 WALKOUT

Sit tight until whomever is the emcee announces the Mass Effect 3 team.  And as soon as they hit the stage, everyone affiliated with the movement gets up and walks out.

It achieves the goal of peaceful protest, and if anyone does stay behind and makes a complete tool of themselves, we can distance ourselves from them by saying they weren't part of the movement because they didn't walk out with you.

If it's done quietly and peacefully, the security guys won't stop you.  In fact, the only way I can see this blowing up in the movement's face is if they pick that time to unveil The Truth, and if THAT'S the worst case scenario...

Forgive me if it seem presumptuous of me to suggest this, but I only wish to help.

That is a briiliant idea!
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

Not a good Idea, you need to bargain first, not look like you are closed to negotiations at all.
 
You don't walk away from a salesman at the begining, you state what you desire and then if the are unwilling to comprimise then you gamble with walking away. This lets them know ifthey do not comprimise we will take our business elsewhere.
 
We need to look like we still care are willing to engage in dialogue, In my view atleast, someone who has more expertise in negotiating feel free to correct me if I am in error.

[mumwaldee369]

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

It's just odd that someone who isn't interested in what you're trying to do sticks around for 160 pages.  Call me paranoid.

Walde. Calm down. He is asking questions.

No, he's spreading FUD.  Fear, uncertainty and doubt.  Another PR tool.

thank you..no one listens to me.

If he is then we will respond with the civility that keeps this whole movement going.

I'm a former marine, I haven't been rude yet.

[ArmyKnifeX]

LinksOcarina wrote...
I agree, its hard to organize something like that.

Like I said, I hope you can do it. I am just really worried about  the reaction answers may get. It's kind of why I liked the idea of a walkout, it sends a message directly.

Although I see your point on it being a problem otherwise. 

I'll do my damnedest to make sure the reaction is polite. It can't be any worse than the double-speak we're already getting. If anybody seems to uppity about it, I'll make sure they sit it out.

[mumwaldee369]

Lazarus Cricket wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Concerning PAX:

Well, considering that yes, one guy can completely screw the whole thing for everyone, handing EA a PR victory they didn't earn, my question is...

Would EA plant someone in the crowd to make a complete tool of themselves to give us bad press?

Because what's more feasible? Making a multimillion dollar DLC, or paying one guy sixty bucks to scream really loud in a public place?

We can deal with the situation if that happens.

If I may ask... How?

I have a suggestion, if I may...

THE RETAKE ME3 WALKOUT

Sit tight until whomever is the emcee announces the Mass Effect 3 team.  And as soon as they hit the stage, everyone affiliated with the movement gets up and walks out.

It achieves the goal of peaceful protest, and if anyone does stay behind and makes a complete tool of themselves, we can distance ourselves from them by saying they weren't part of the movement because they didn't walk out with you.

If it's done quietly and peacefully, the security guys won't stop you.  In fact, the only way I can see this blowing up in the movement's face is if they pick that time to unveil The Truth, and if THAT'S the worst case scenario...

Forgive me if it seem presumptuous of me to suggest this, but I only wish to help.

That is a briiliant idea!
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

Not a good Idea, you need to bargain first, not look like you are closed to negotiations at all.
 
You don't walk away from a salesman at the begining, you state what you desire and then if the are unwilling to comprimise then you gamble with walking away. This lets them know ifthey do not comprimise we will take our business elsewhere.
 
We need to look like we still care are willing to engage in dialogue, In my view atleast, someone who has more expertise in negotiating feel free to correct me if I am in error.

What do we have to bargain with?  Media exposure and pressure would surely be better?

[LinksOcarina]

I don't know, saying im spreading FUD is a bit dramatic, no?

[ReavousX]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Knife you don't have the authority to do that yet.

Ehm, excuse me? I've been an active participant in these boards since nearly day one after the release of the game. I wrote what seems to be the most popular mission statement thus far.

I also have been working hard to organize a PAX East Group and did so very early on.

This has been a community effort, and will remain so my friends.  Telling anyone they don't have "authority" to answer simple questions as an individual who's a participant in the movement is straight up silly.  

I appreciate what you're trying to do Carnage, but I'm finding a lot of the time you're chanting "be civil" to people who are being perfectly civil and fleshing out a debate.  

The entire reason "civility" became a go to word is because Jessica asked that we all remain civil when giving feedback.  As in, don't bash the staff.  Not that we should turn savage and go at eachother's throats.  But spamming "be civil" and telling people that they shouldn't discuss conflicting opinions on a public forum is about as useful as playing ME3 while being tracked by Bioware during this protest.  

So, everyone...be cool.  If you think someone is getting a little too pushy, and it could reflect poorly on the Retake Movement, send them a PM and let it be handled quietly, as it should be. 

[Darkeus]

[quote]


Not a good Idea, you need to bargain first, not look like you are closed to negotiations at all.
 
You don't walk away from a salesman at the begining, you state what you desire and then if the are unwilling to comprimise then you gamble with walking away. This lets them know ifthey do not comprimise we will take our business elsewhere.
 
We need to look like we still care are willing to engage in dialogue, In my view atleast, someone who has more expertise in negotiating feel free to correct me if I am in error.[/quote]

What do we have to bargain with?  Media exposure and pressure would surely be better?[/quote]

Our wallets and continued patronage.....  For starters at least.

Modifié par Darkeus, 19 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[LinksOcarina]

Lochias WH wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

Oh it's fine. Ive been called worse.


That was really the only question I had, along with the warning. As I said, if you want to set up an interview, have your PR/spokesperson contact me, and well set something up.

just be warned, I will be asking tough questions. 

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

I apologize if you've been poorly treated in this thread, but it certainly seems like you've just muscled your way into this thread and told people "it's either my way or the highway". I understand you may have organized protests before, but that methodology is not going to get you anywhere with us. Please come at this from an angle of discussion rather than simply telling us what to do.

 

I get that. Like I said though, it was a friendly warning. 

Part of the problem, Links, is that your advise has been very condescending. You are assuming outcomes that no one has even approached, and passed judgement on the actions of others. They are reacting negatively because you, even in trying to help, are provoking them.

As for your question about leadership, while your point is valid overall, why would a movement without any funding need a treasurer? Why would a movement without meetings need a secretary? If you  are about to reply with an answer like, "Thats my point, without funding and meetings you won't succeed," then I'll say that you should simply have suggested that the movement organize, get funded, and schedule meetings.

Say what you mean, think about how other people will perceive it.

Hold the line.

Yes, treasuer is usually for funding. I probably should have omitted it though at this time because of the type of organization this has been so far.

As for secretary, taking notes and providing feedback is usually a good idea. Especially if you are passing notes along to other people. 

Maybe I just am old school in how things work though. Probably a mistake on my part. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 19 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[c3pu2]

ReavousX wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Knife you don't have the authority to do that yet.

Ehm, excuse me? I've been an active participant in these boards since nearly day one after the release of the game. I wrote what seems to be the most popular mission statement thus far.

I also have been working hard to organize a PAX East Group and did so very early on.

This has been a community effort, and will remain so my friends.  Telling anyone they don't have "authority" to answer simple questions as an individual who's a participant in the movement is straight up silly.  

I appreciate what you're trying to do Carnage, but I'm finding a lot of the time you're chanting "be civil" to people who are being perfectly civil and fleshing out a debate.  

The entire reason "civility" became a go to word is because Jessica asked that we all remain civil when giving feedback.  As in, don't bash the staff.  Not that we should turn savage and go at eachother's throats.  But spamming "be civil" and telling people that they shouldn't discuss conflicting opinions on a public forum is about as useful as playing ME3 while being tracked by Bioware during this protest.  

So, everyone...be cool.  If you think someone is getting a little too pushy, and it could reflect poorly on the Retake Movement, send them a PM and let it be handled quietly, as it should be. 

good im not the only one who see that

[Carnage752]

ReavousX wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Knife you don't have the authority to do that yet.

Ehm, excuse me? I've been an active participant in these boards since nearly day one after the release of the game. I wrote what seems to be the most popular mission statement thus far.

I also have been working hard to organize a PAX East Group and did so very early on.

This has been a community effort, and will remain so my friends.  Telling anyone they don't have "authority" to answer simple questions as an individual who's a participant in the movement is straight up silly.  

I appreciate what you're trying to do Carnage, but I'm finding a lot of the time you're chanting "be civil" to people who are being perfectly civil and fleshing out a debate.  

The entire reason "civility" became a go to word is because Jessica asked that we all remain civil when giving feedback.  As in, don't bash the staff.  Not that we should turn savage and go at eachother's throats.  But spamming "be civil" and telling people that they shouldn't discuss conflicting opinions on a public forum is about as useful as playing ME3 while being tracked by Bioware during this protest.  

So, everyone...be cool.  If you think someone is getting a little too pushy, and it could reflect poorly on the Retake Movement, send them a PM and let it be handled quietly, as it should be. 

People seem to be misinterpreting this man's question. While I should have added more context to what I was saying to Knife, I just don't want any random guy representing our movement. What if he was the FTC guy?

I know he's not but it's an example.

[mumwaldee369]

[quote]Darkeus wrote...

[quote]


Not a good Idea, you need to bargain first, not look like you are closed to negotiations at all.
 
You don't walk away from a salesman at the begining, you state what you desire and then if the are unwilling to comprimise then you gamble with walking away. This lets them know ifthey do not comprimise we will take our business elsewhere.
 
We need to look like we still care are willing to engage in dialogue, In my view atleast, someone who has more expertise in negotiating feel free to correct me if I am in error.[/quote]

What do we have to bargain with?  Media exposure and pressure would surely be better?[/quote]

Our wallets and continued patronage.....  For starters at least.

[/quote]

I'd like to think corporate entities could see that logic, but I'm not confident they'll worry about future sales today.  They're worried about selling what they already have in the warehouse.  Media attention will hurt sales and twist their arms into action.

[c3pu2]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Lochias WH wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

Oh it's fine. Ive been called worse.


That was really the only question I had, along with the warning. As I said, if you want to set up an interview, have your PR/spokesperson contact me, and well set something up.

just be warned, I will be asking tough questions. 

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

I apologize if you've been poorly treated in this thread, but it certainly seems like you've just muscled your way into this thread and told people "it's either my way or the highway". I understand you may have organized protests before, but that methodology is not going to get you anywhere with us. Please come at this from an angle of discussion rather than simply telling us what to do.

 

I get that. Like I said though, it was a friendly warning. 

Part of the problem, Links, is that your advise has been very condescending. You are assuming outcomes that no one has even approached, and passed judgement on the actions of others. They are reacting negatively because you, even in trying to help, are provoking them.

As for your question about leadership, while your point is valid overall, why would a movement without any funding need a treasurer? Why would a movement without meetings need a secretary? If you  are about to reply with an answer like, "Thats my point, without funding and meetings you won't succeed," then I'll say that you should simply have suggested that the movement organize, get funded, and schedule meetings.

Say what you mean, think about how other people will perceive it.

Hold the line.

Yes, treasuer is usually for funding. I probably should have omitted it though at this time because of the type of organization this has been so far.

As for secretary, taking notes and providing feedback is usually a good idea. Especially if you are passing notes along to other people. 

bachuk and atg hunter are the secretary this tread is all about that

[vigna]

I can tell you this from experience. I was correct about Hudson releasing a statement on a Friday to be crushed by the news cycle. Many of us have creditentials of respect in the real world as well--we just don't use them here.

When "leaders" are picked by people arbitarily for a movement that will often quickly lead to the movement collapsing--or simply fading with a whimper. What will happen if a "leader' meets the Bioware biggies or the EA guys? They generally get swept away and start the worship thing and lose focus. People get feelings hurt and they move on. People want to be remembered for being part of a movement rather than being one of the unremembered mass. People naturally want to stand out and be remembered. Remember we are all fans.......when fans actually meet the creators of the things they love they generally act like an idiot or they start the worship and soft peddling. ...it is natural. The humanizing the corporation phase. Natural and dangerous-- and happens so often that many groups fail because they put their trust in someone who was undeserving. A bad or incapable leader is worse than no leader.

End rant.

Modifié par vigna, 19 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[MajorUhlan]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't know, saying im spreading FUD is a bit dramatic, no?

It is, but considering the tone of your comments that could be excused I think. You seem to be taking a high status role here and haven't, yet to my knowledge, provided any credentials as to what makes you an expert in the field of mass orginization. Not saying that you don't have the credentials, as you do write for an interesting website that seems to have a lot of good stuff on it; let alone what freelance work you do.