9972 réponses à ce sujet

[vigna]

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

It's just odd that someone who isn't interested in what you're trying to do sticks around for 160 pages.  Call me paranoid.

Walde. Calm down. He is asking questions.

No, he's spreading FUD.  Fear, uncertainty and doubt.  Another PR tool.

thank you..no one listens to me.

If he is then we will respond with the civility that keeps this whole movement going.

i was never uncivil.

[cyrrant]

I do believe that there's a post on the front page that advises anyone that has problems with anyone else to take it to PMs as soon as possible. Showing cracks like that is only going to damage the movement.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Lazarus Cricket]

Bargain with our numbers and collective buying power, negative media exposure could kill this I think. They are concerned about profits we need to find a way to show them we would buy from them only if they give us a dlc to purchase that makes the fixes most people want. I agree we need more momentum and exposure, neutral or positive, to have a bargaining chip so to speak. Negative exposure with strawman arguements and ad homonen attacks could be in our favor as long as we look civil detractors will seem unreasonable *finges crossed*.

Either way, if this doesn't pan out they will have hurt the stable profits generated from their fan base if they take a shift that seems they are unwilling to appease loyal customers. As more people complete the game I think the vocal minority will get alot less minor and alot more vocal.

Edit: Forgot to quote, this is in response to mumwaldee (did I get that right?)

Edit: also not suggesting to not walk out at any point I just don't see it to be good strategy as the initial and only attack, do so if they attempt to disarm with more lies and false placation

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 19 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[c3pu2]

vigna wrote...

I can tell you this from experience. I was correct about Hudson releasing a statement on a Friday to bbe crushed by the news cycle. Many of us have creditentials of respect in the real world as well--we just don't use them here.

When "leaders" are picked by people arbitarily for a movement that will often will quickly lead to the movement collapsing--or simply fading with a whimper. What will happen if a "leader' meets the Bioware biggies or the EA guys? They generally get swept away and start the worship thing and lose focus. People get feelings hurt and they move on. People want to be remembered for being part of a movement rather than being one of the unremembered mass. People naturally want to stand out and be remembered. Remember we are all fans.......when fans actually meet the creators of the things they love theye generally act like an idiot or they start the worship and soft peddling. ...it is natural. The humanizing the corporation phase. Natural and dangerous and happens so often that many groups fail because they put their trust in someone who was undeserving. A bad or incapable leader is worse than no leader.

End rant.

we dont need leaders we are legion

[vigna]

Boceephus wrote...

About the walkout.

That might be nice if you have at least a quarter of the people in the hall on your side, but if we only manage to get a dozen or so people they'll look kinda ridiculous and paint us as kids not willing to hear the other side as someone mentioned.

It would squander the opportunity to hear what they have to say and then be able to ask questions in a very public forum which would be a win, even if they're brushed aside by PR doublespeak.

That is most appropriate if anything is done IMO.

[BrotherFluffy]

I think a walkout is a bad idea. As others have said, it looks like we just aren't interested in opening up a dialogue. And that's what we want, a dialogue. This is our chance to meet the developers face to face and ask them the hard questions, like why we can't challenge the Catalyst's logic when you've proved him wrong earlier in the game. Why Joker and the Normandy are fleeing the battle when it's totally out of character. This is our one free shot, and if we waste it by walking out, we miss it, and it will be spun as us looking like petulant children.

[avmf8]

Lazarus Cricket wrote...

Bargain with our numbers and collective buying power, negative media exposure could kill this I think. They are concerned about profits we need to find a way to show them we would buy from them only if they give us a dlc to purchase that makes the fixes most people want. I agree we need more momentum and exposure, neutral or positive, to have a bargaining chip so to speak. Negative exposure with strawman arguements and ad homonen attacks could be in our favor as long as we look civil detractors will seem unreasonable *finges crossed*.

Either way, if this doesn't pan out they will have hurt the stable profits generated from their fan base if they take a shift that seems they are unwilling to appease loyal customers. As more people complete the game I think the vocal minority will get alot less minor and alot more vocal.

I am not going to purchase the ending to fix an ending Bioware quickly put together just to get the game out quicker.

It is obvious they finished the ending quicky because they wanted to start selling it.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

ReavousX wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Knife you don't have the authority to do that yet.

Ehm, excuse me? I've been an active participant in these boards since nearly day one after the release of the game. I wrote what seems to be the most popular mission statement thus far.

I also have been working hard to organize a PAX East Group and did so very early on.

This has been a community effort, and will remain so my friends.  Telling anyone they don't have "authority" to answer simple questions as an individual who's a participant in the movement is straight up silly.  

I appreciate what you're trying to do Carnage, but I'm finding a lot of the time you're chanting "be civil" to people who are being perfectly civil and fleshing out a debate.  

The entire reason "civility" became a go to word is because Jessica asked that we all remain civil when giving feedback.  As in, don't bash the staff.  Not that we should turn savage and go at eachother's throats.  But spamming "be civil" and telling people that they shouldn't discuss conflicting opinions on a public forum is about as useful as playing ME3 while being tracked by Bioware during this protest.  

So, everyone...be cool.  If you think someone is getting a little too pushy, and it could reflect poorly on the Retake Movement, send them a PM and let it be handled quietly, as it should be. 

Yes please don't start fighting.  We are all friends her and we have the power the only way we lose is if we start fighting that is what Bioware is stalling for. Don't let it happen .

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Moirai]

I won't be at PAX myself, guys, since I'm a bit too far away, I'm afraid.

Just be on the lookout for individuals sent in by EA/Bioware PR to stir up trouble for the cause. Unfortunately that's an all too common tactic in these circumstances.

If someone specifically causes problems, take their photo.

[c3pu2]

i dont like the atmosfere here tonight so im going to hold the line elsewere
keelah se'lai

[mumwaldee369]

BrotherFluffy wrote...

I think a walkout is a bad idea. As others have said, it looks like we just aren't interested in opening up a dialogue. And that's what we want, a dialogue. This is our chance to meet the developers face to face and ask them the hard questions, like why we can't challenge the Catalyst's logic when you've proved him wrong earlier in the game. Why Joker and the Normandy are fleeing the battle when it's totally out of character. This is our one free shot, and if we waste it by walking out, we miss it, and it will be spun as us looking like petulant children.

Keeping it in the Sun Tzu vein, you are making battle plans on THEIR website, you're not going to blindside them with stuff planned here.  They will have talking points that they will stick to.  The media is on their side.  I'm not trying to be harsh towards you, just constructively critical.

[Lozark]

Yeah, whatever ends up happening, don't walk out, hold your ground! And then bumrush the stage! Raaaaaah!

...okay, maybe not that last part

[Emberwake]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Lochias WH wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Mr Link, perhaps we can carry this discussion elsewhere? Some people seem to misinterpreting your questions.

Oh it's fine. Ive been called worse.


That was really the only question I had, along with the warning. As I said, if you want to set up an interview, have your PR/spokesperson contact me, and well set something up.

just be warned, I will be asking tough questions. 

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

I apologize if you've been poorly treated in this thread, but it certainly seems like you've just muscled your way into this thread and told people "it's either my way or the highway". I understand you may have organized protests before, but that methodology is not going to get you anywhere with us. Please come at this from an angle of discussion rather than simply telling us what to do.

 

I get that. Like I said though, it was a friendly warning. 

Part of the problem, Links, is that your advise has been very condescending. You are assuming outcomes that no one has even approached, and passed judgement on the actions of others. They are reacting negatively because you, even in trying to help, are provoking them.

As for your question about leadership, while your point is valid overall, why would a movement without any funding need a treasurer? Why would a movement without meetings need a secretary? If you  are about to reply with an answer like, "Thats my point, without funding and meetings you won't succeed," then I'll say that you should simply have suggested that the movement organize, get funded, and schedule meetings.

Say what you mean, think about how other people will perceive it.

Hold the line.

Yes, treasuer is usually for funding. I probably should have omitted it though at this time because of the type of organization this has been so far.

As for secretary, taking notes and providing feedback is usually a good idea. Especially if you are passing notes along to other people. 

Maybe I just am old school in how things work though. Probably a mistake on my part. 

Treasurer's aren't "usually for funding", thats pretty much all they are. A secretary would be great for taking notes... if all our communications weren't already being recorded on message boards.

I'm not sure if its a matter of being old school. I like your message: get organized. But you've come under fire in the last couple pages of this topic and I hope you can see why that happened.

Hold the line.

[Carnage752]

Guys, I just don't want anyone going to represent us. Judging from the way some people reacted to Link's questions, this made me realize we need to be careful who represents us. If we go to PAX alot of press is going to be there. If we present the wrong guy as someone to speak for us it can end in disaster. I am talking to Knife right now on his want to speak for us.

[rickelmo]

Anyone who feels they have the backbone and mind to basically be an ambassador for the group should just get their names in the thread and then all of those people discuss it themselves. Having a bunch of people argue over leadership won't get anyone anywhere.

Doing something at PAX can shed us in the worst light possible so this needs to be well thought out and whoever has the BACKBONE to carry out this stuff needs to discuss it with other "leaders". We are already going to be a small group in a larger crowd, so we can't argue and do the equivalent of "dividing our forces".

[ArmyKnifeX]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

I think a walkout is a bad idea. As others have said, it looks like we just aren't interested in opening up a dialogue. And that's what we want, a dialogue. This is our chance to meet the developers face to face and ask them the hard questions, like why we can't challenge the Catalyst's logic when you've proved him wrong earlier in the game. Why Joker and the Normandy are fleeing the battle when it's totally out of character. This is our one free shot, and if we waste it by walking out, we miss it, and it will be spun as us looking like petulant children.

Keeping it in the Sun Tzu vein, you are making battle plans on THEIR website, you're not going to blindside them with stuff planned here.  They will have talking points that they will stick to.  The media is on their side.  I'm not trying to be harsh towards you, just constructively critical.

There are two things I'm counting on with PAX East: One, that at least one, very important question will be answered that represents the community as a whole, and that two: they will have a stock response for it.

However, the very act of asking the question and letting the double-talk reply get seen is the point of the act.

BioWare COULD surprise us all and give a straight answer. I think if they did, they'd have a lot of love coming from us.

[frylock23]

c3pu2 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Let me rephrase.
Who is up to take actual action on Bioware and let our acual voices be heared by them at PAX East instead of posting "Hold the line" no matter how grand it is and HOPEING Bioware will see?
PAX East Platoon social.bioware.com/group/7049/

You do this. You will lose.

The minute someone barges into that panel acting like an unruly protestor negates your whole movement. Just a fair warning.

I wasn't going for unruly.
I was meaning that we would sit there as a group like any other person and ask questions about the ending. Leting them know we're not the minority.

Intentions are noble.

But try to control a group of angry nerds and geeks dressed up in costume at a panel. It is...difficult.

...We have Marauder Shields and "Hold The Line" t-shirts.

should I be impressed by this?

That won't stop people if they get out of hand. Look, if you guys thank you can do it peacefully, and it actually happens, i'm all for it. But nine times out of ten, that never happens when the wound is so fresh.

plus there sure as hell going to be a cople people going just to make trouble i say we dont go at all and make it official so if people do go and make trouble our ass is coverd

The best thing to do is to stand quietly in the back and along the sides of the room holding up large signs that clearly convey your beef. "Hold the Line" "Retake ME3" "Fix the Endings" are all possible slogans. If you really must, wait until the last possible moment before you start chanting. Make sure they've said all they're going to say first and are getting ready to pick up and leave. That way, you know they can't help but see your signs. You know they've registered your presence and so has anyone from the press who happens to be there. And no one can plausibly paint you as angry or disruptive especially if you decide to not say anything. And if you are simply standing and being quiet and they send people to escort you out (unless they post rules about no signs or something); then it looks bad for them.

The hardest thing for you to do is to vet all your people and make sure you all have the discipline to hold youselves to that standard.

[LinksOcarina]

MajorUhlan wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't know, saying im spreading FUD is a bit dramatic, no?

It is, but considering the tone of your comments that could be excused I think. You seem to be taking a high status role here and haven't, yet to my knowledge, provided any credentials as to what makes you an expert in the field of mass orginization. Not saying that you don't have the credentials, as you do write for an interesting website that seems to have a lot of good stuff on it; let alone what freelance work you do.

yeah, my tone was uncalled for and i'm sorry for that.

I wish I can showcase proof of mass organization, most of the stuff I did was for things like organizing a protest to protect a historical landmark and a campaign against Mike Huckabee when he was visiting our school; basically it was about his values against abortion and what not.

We saved the landmark, at least. Letter campaign mostly and a town hall meeting showing. 

[Ender99]

I think a lot of people on here are getting wound a little too tight. Take atghunters advice and take a break, chill out, and then come back and hold the line.

[InsaneNarwhal]

We don't need to do anything at PAX that would potentially ruin what is usually such a great event. We just need to keep talking about our dissatisfaction with the ending and your resolve to not purchase any other DLC or MP weapon packs and such until this issue is resolved. Keep it simple, clear, and civil.

And on that note. I'm gonna take a food break. Play nice. =)

[BrotherFluffy]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

BrotherFluffy wrote...

I think a walkout is a bad idea. As others have said, it looks like we just aren't interested in opening up a dialogue. And that's what we want, a dialogue. This is our chance to meet the developers face to face and ask them the hard questions, like why we can't challenge the Catalyst's logic when you've proved him wrong earlier in the game. Why Joker and the Normandy are fleeing the battle when it's totally out of character. This is our one free shot, and if we waste it by walking out, we miss it, and it will be spun as us looking like petulant children.

Keeping it in the Sun Tzu vein, you are making battle plans on THEIR website, you're not going to blindside them with stuff planned here.  They will have talking points that they will stick to.  The media is on their side.  I'm not trying to be harsh towards you, just constructively critical.

I don't think we will.  I mean, they HAVE to know going into this what questions they're going to be fielding, even without reading this post.  Or my last one.  Whatever.  They know it, we know it.  But this is a chance to ask them face to face, and how both sides handle this will really kind of tip the scales in my opinion, and I don't think a walkout sends the right message.  

[Michotic]

 http://www.facebook....sEffect3]Demand a better ending broke 40,000.[/url]

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

Modifié par Michotic, 19 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[vigna]

On a positive note ...............remember Marauder Shields!
Hold the Line!

[mumwaldee369]

Carnage752 wrote...

Guys, I just don't want anyone going to represent us. Judging from the way some people reacted to Link's questions, this made me realize we need to be careful who represents us. If we go to PAX alot of press is going to be there. If we present the wrong guy as someone to speak for us it can end in disaster. I am talking to Knife right now on his want to speak for us.

Reality:  you need someone that is clean cut, physically attractive, and is well spoken.  They must have the demands list etched into their memory and can stay on topic no matter what kind of underhanded insults/questions can be hurled at them.  Pretty tall order with no funding or means of communication other than bsn.

[BrotherFluffy]

InsaneNarwhal wrote...

We don't need to do anything at PAX that would potentially ruin what is usually such a great event. We just need to keep talking about our dissatisfaction with the ending and your resolve to not purchase any other DLC or MP weapon packs and such until this issue is resolved. Keep it simple, clear, and civil.

And on that note. I'm gonna take a food break. Play nice. =)

I like this plan.