9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Carnage752]

Michotic wrote...

 http://www.facebook....sEffect3]Demand a better ending broke 40,000.[/url]

THERE WE GO GUYS! HOLD THE LINE!

[vigna]

frylock23 wrote...

c3pu2 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Let me rephrase.
Who is up to take actual action on Bioware and let our acual voices be heared by them at PAX East instead of posting "Hold the line" no matter how grand it is and HOPEING Bioware will see?
PAX East Platoon social.bioware.com/group/7049/

You do this. You will lose.

The minute someone barges into that panel acting like an unruly protestor negates your whole movement. Just a fair warning.

I wasn't going for unruly.
I was meaning that we would sit there as a group like any other person and ask questions about the ending. Leting them know we're not the minority.

Intentions are noble.

But try to control a group of angry nerds and geeks dressed up in costume at a panel. It is...difficult.

...We have Marauder Shields and "Hold The Line" t-shirts.

should I be impressed by this?

That won't stop people if they get out of hand. Look, if you guys thank you can do it peacefully, and it actually happens, i'm all for it. But nine times out of ten, that never happens when the wound is so fresh.

plus there sure as hell going to be a cople people going just to make trouble i say we dont go at all and make it official so if people do go and make trouble our ass is coverd

The best thing to do is to stand quietly in the back and along the sides of the room holding up large signs that clearly convey your beef. "Hold the Line" "Retake ME3" "Fix the Endings" are all possible slogans. If you really must, wait until the last possible moment before you start chanting. Make sure they've said all they're going to say first and are getting ready to pick up and leave. That way, you know they can't help but see your signs. You know they've registered your presence and so has anyone from the press who happens to be there. And no one can plausibly paint you as angry or disruptive especially if you decide to not say anything. And if you are simply standing and being quiet and they send people to escort you out (unless they post rules about no signs or something); then it looks bad for them.

The hardest thing for you to do is to vet all your people and make sure you all have the discipline to hold youselves to that standard.

i doubt they may even allow signs....

[Darthlawsuit]

Neuthung wrote...

Hmm... My threads are getting sunk pretty quick. How would you guys feel about a video campaign? I posted a response to BioWare's thread asking for criticism, and I was thinking of making a page to collect a lot of other videos that cover similar things. It would humanize our movement, really show them who is affected.

Count me out. I hate posting video on the internet.

[BrotherFluffy]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Guys, I just don't want anyone going to represent us. Judging from the way some people reacted to Link's questions, this made me realize we need to be careful who represents us. If we go to PAX alot of press is going to be there. If we present the wrong guy as someone to speak for us it can end in disaster. I am talking to Knife right now on his want to speak for us.

Reality:  you need someone that is clean cut, physically attractive, and is well spoken.  They must have the demands list etched into their memory and can stay on topic no matter what kind of underhanded insults/questions can be hurled at them.  Pretty tall order with no funding or means of communication other than bsn.

The people who are going and on BSN can swap e-mails via PMs and communicate that way

[Carnage752]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Guys, I just don't want anyone going to represent us. Judging from the way some people reacted to Link's questions, this made me realize we need to be careful who represents us. If we go to PAX alot of press is going to be there. If we present the wrong guy as someone to speak for us it can end in disaster. I am talking to Knife right now on his want to speak for us.

Reality:  you need someone that is clean cut, physically attractive, and is well spoken.  They must have the demands list etched into their memory and can stay on topic no matter what kind of underhanded insults/questions can be hurled at them.  Pretty tall order with no funding or means of communication other than bsn.

Thanks for your feedback. I am not deciding though. I am just trying to stop people who call themselves out as speakers for us.

[Jamie9]

Unfortunately, it's time for me to sleep. Remember.

Our choices should matter - Hold the Line.

[ReavousX]

I'll throw a few things out, and see what sticks.

Designating a "leader" isn't all that wise. Titles aren't really needed, nor is anyone going to take this more seriously if there are titles anyways. It's a video game, people. Anyone outside of the gaming industry will be quick to write us off as angry kids, cute little titles aren't going to change that.

What IS working (despite this notion that non-traditional movements don't work) is this natural system of leaders stepping forward on their own, through their actions and statements. The facebook, the input from guys like atghunter...the cream rises to the top, so to speak. The movement has already be noticed and acknowledged in the media, without need for a "spokesperson".

If we need to say anything, as a movement and community, we have all the tools needed to throw together a survey of ourselves and let the results speak. This is the internet, and we have countless tools right at our fingertips.

The biggest thing right now is to keep the interest up, keep spreading the message, and yes, be civil. There's plenty of ammunition to use without name calling or attacking Bioware. Casey's "A, B, C endings" quote with the picture of the three choices is ample material. Honestly, if you're trying to "fight" for the movement, that picture alone is a quality weapon.

Again, to everyone. Be cool. If you're not particularly sold on the movement, I ask that you keep an open mind, and if by chance some random person on the internet comes at you with an attack...write them off as such, because there are plenty of well meaning, respectful people here to discuss the topics at hand with.

[Carnage752]

Darthlawsuit wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

Hmm... My threads are getting sunk pretty quick. How would you guys feel about a video campaign? I posted a response to BioWare's thread asking for criticism, and I was thinking of making a page to collect a lot of other videos that cover similar things. It would humanize our movement, really show them who is affected.

Count me out. I hate posting video on the internet.

That's pretty smart. Maybe compile videos that give REASONABLE AND CIVIL reasons on why the endings are bad. Nice idea.

[katness]

Whoa... What happened here. Everyone please stop arguing with each other....

Never before have I seen such a group of intelligent and rational group of people on a forum. Everyone has great insight and opinions! But, if people keep going at each other, this thread will suffer... Please, keep holding the line.

[rickelmo]

InsaneNarwhal wrote...

We don't need to do anything at PAX that would potentially ruin what is usually such a great event. We just need to keep talking about our dissatisfaction with the ending and your resolve to not purchase any other DLC or MP weapon packs and such until this issue is resolved. Keep it simple, clear, and civil.

And on that note. I'm gonna take a food break. Play nice. =)

 Unfortunately, I don't think most people have the willpower to just not buy dlc. We all talk a big game but protests like these usually end up with the protestors doing exactly what they were going against. Just look at that Call of Duty: Black Ops boycott. At the end of the day, people will most likely buy the dlc, and that is why promising to "never buy a Bioware product again" is useless. So doing something at PAX that shows maturity and the will to do what is right by the Mass Effect franchise is probably the best idea possible (considering a charity still gets gaming sites calling us entitled).

 Whoever organizes this PAX thing just needs to know that one false move can ruin any chance of getting a new ending. One Kotaku article talking about how "entitled" we are can do more damage than I'd like to admit.

[Carnage752]

ReavousX wrote...

I'll throw a few things out, and see what sticks.

Designating a "leader" isn't all that wise. Titles aren't really needed, nor is anyone going to take this more seriously if there are titles anyways. It's a video game, people. Anyone outside of the gaming industry will be quick to write us off as angry kids, cute little titles aren't going to change that.

What IS working (despite this notion that non-traditional movements don't work) is this natural system of leaders stepping forward on their own, through their actions and statements. The facebook, the input from guys like atghunter...the cream rises to the top, so to speak. The movement has already be noticed and acknowledged in the media, without need for a "spokesperson".

If we need to say anything, as a movement and community, we have all the tools needed to throw together a survey of ourselves and let the results speak. This is the internet, and we have countless tools right at our fingertips.

The biggest thing right now is to keep the interest up, keep spreading the message, and yes, be civil. There's plenty of ammunition to use without name calling or attacking Bioware. Casey's "A, B, C endings" quote with the picture of the three choices is ample material. Honestly, if you're trying to "fight" for the movement, that picture alone is a quality weapon.

Again, to everyone. Be cool. If you're not particularly sold on the movement, I ask that you keep an open mind, and if by chance some random person on the internet comes at you with an attack...write them off as such, because there are plenty of well meaning, respectful people here to discuss the topics at hand with.

We may not need a leader, but we need a system on designating who is speaking for us. Not just some random people saying they will speak for us. Splintering at this stage will make people not take us seriously.

[Carnage752]

katness wrote...

Whoa... What happened here. Everyone please stop arguing with each other....

Never before have I seen such a group of intelligent and rational group of people on a forum. Everyone has great insight and opinions! But, if people keep going at each other, this thread will suffer... Please, keep holding the line.

It's fine. This is healthy debate. We have all remained civil.

[Luiginius]

Ender99 wrote...

I think a lot of people on here are getting wound a little too tight. Take atghunters advice and take a break, chill out, and then come back and hold the line.

Indeed, watch a movie, go for a run, disconnect from the net for a bit. Also, this is basically a consumer activism thing, nothing more serious. All we can do, is express what we think about me and if that doesn't effect anything, there are other gaming studios out there who do good work. 

Ultimately, wallets speak the loudest.

[mumwaldee369]

Carnage752 wrote...

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Guys, I just don't want anyone going to represent us. Judging from the way some people reacted to Link's questions, this made me realize we need to be careful who represents us. If we go to PAX alot of press is going to be there. If we present the wrong guy as someone to speak for us it can end in disaster. I am talking to Knife right now on his want to speak for us.

Reality:  you need someone that is clean cut, physically attractive, and is well spoken.  They must have the demands list etched into their memory and can stay on topic no matter what kind of underhanded insults/questions can be hurled at them.  Pretty tall order with no funding or means of communication other than bsn.

Thanks for your feedback. I am not deciding though. I am just trying to stop people who call themselves out as speakers for us.

My favorite Sun Tzu quote:  “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt”

[cyrrant]

We're a grassroots movement of many, and it's logical that there will be disagreements.  atghunter addressed the exact issue that's happening in this thread right now, twice, actually.

Electing leaders may be a bad idea, it gives PR a person to target, and then causes the masses to go rabid when they see their leaders taking flak.  On the other hand, coordination is the key to victory in a lot of endeavors, and the movement is spread out across a lot of threads and websites at the moment.

Carnage, I would not worry about this turning into OWS.  That movement did not have clearly defined goals, and we only have a single, burning desire:  see the endings to ME3 fixed.  That's all we've ever wanted, and all we will want until the day we get it.  That said, I see why you are antsy about this, because the endings affected you just as badly as the rest of us, and you want something DONE.  I'm right there with you.

Continue to engage anyone you meet with the civility this thread and the Retake movement has worked so hard for.  Don't rise to the bait if someone does come here asking us questions that may be very hard.  No one needs to be authorized to speak their mind here, and everything should be weighed appropriately.

That being said, don't let the spirit of goodwill dull your call.  We want new endings, we may want them in different ways, and we may all be willing to go to various lengths to get them, but in the end we are Retake Mass Effect, and we will Hold the Line.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

So does Bioware actually care what we think?

[vigna]

Thanks again to ATGHunter for providing such great insight, and to Bachuck for collecting the data and information so well, and starting this wonderful thread.

Well done guys.

[ArmyKnifeX]

Carnage752 wrote...
We may not need a leader, but we need a system on designating who is speaking for us. Not just some random people saying they will speak for us. Splintering at this stage will make people not take us seriously.

This is going to be tricky. From what I've seen, though, leaders and spokespeople are emerging through merit. Those who feel they aren't up to the task are staying back. In general this is going to be difficult, but I think we'll manage.

As much as I like solid systems, I don't know if we'll be able to come up with a good one that doesn't also fracture this movement.

[Michotic]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

So does Bioware actually care what we think?

I'd have to say yes. We are their customers. We are what keeps them going. However, as atghunter has said, they are probably assessing just how much attention to give us. I'm quite certain that if they felt they could write us off and do nothing and not lose money, they'd do that. If they think giving us what we want will work out best for them, they'll do that.

What we have to do is present a unified front that shows it IS in their best interest to listen to us and to take care of us.

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[rickelmo]

ReavousX wrote...

I'll throw a few things out, and see what sticks.

Designating a "leader" isn't all that wise. Titles aren't really needed, nor is anyone going to take this more seriously if there are titles anyways. It's a video game, people. Anyone outside of the gaming industry will be quick to write us off as angry kids, cute little titles aren't going to change that.

What IS working (despite this notion that non-traditional movements don't work) is this natural system of leaders stepping forward on their own, through their actions and statements. The facebook, the input from guys like atghunter...the cream rises to the top, so to speak. The movement has already be noticed and acknowledged in the media, without need for a "spokesperson".

If we need to say anything, as a movement and community, we have all the tools needed to throw together a survey of ourselves and let the results speak. This is the internet, and we have countless tools right at our fingertips.

The biggest thing right now is to keep the interest up, keep spreading the message, and yes, be civil. There's plenty of ammunition to use without name calling or attacking Bioware. Casey's "A, B, C endings" quote with the picture of the three choices is ample material. Honestly, if you're trying to "fight" for the movement, that picture alone is a quality weapon.

Again, to everyone. Be cool. If you're not particularly sold on the movement, I ask that you keep an open mind, and if by chance some random person on the internet comes at you with an attack...write them off as such, because there are plenty of well meaning, respectful people here to discuss the topics at hand with.

 If youn haven't read this yet then make sure you do. Reavous makes some really good points. Espcially using that quote and picture.

[Neuthung]

Carnage752 wrote...

Darthlawsuit wrote...

Neuthung wrote...

Hmm... My threads are getting sunk pretty quick. How would you guys feel about a video campaign? I posted a response to BioWare's thread asking for criticism, and I was thinking of making a page to collect a lot of other videos that cover similar things. It would humanize our movement, really show them who is affected.

Count me out. I hate posting video on the internet.

That's pretty smart. Maybe compile videos that give REASONABLE AND CIVIL reasons on why the endings are bad. Nice idea.

I have two videos so far, both of which can be found in one of my recent threads. Everything is civil, I personally made sure that nothing overly negative crept into my delivery. Send me links to videos, I'll keep a list compiled.

[MajorUhlan]

LinksOcarina wrote...

MajorUhlan wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I don't know, saying im spreading FUD is a bit dramatic, no?

It is, but considering the tone of your comments that could be excused I think. You seem to be taking a high status role here and haven't, yet to my knowledge, provided any credentials as to what makes you an expert in the field of mass orginization. Not saying that you don't have the credentials, as you do write for an interesting website that seems to have a lot of good stuff on it; let alone what freelance work you do.

yeah, my tone was uncalled for and i'm sorry for that.

I wish I can showcase proof of mass organization, most of the stuff I did was for things like organizing a protest to protect a historical landmark and a campaign against Mike Huckabee when he was visiting our school; basically it was about his values against abortion and what not.

We saved the landmark, at least. Letter campaign mostly and a town hall meeting showing. 

Indeed - some people here are still on edge, others are just finishing the game and coming to this thread to vent. Emotions running high is to be expected, but communication is key. Thank you for understanding.

Great work on saving the historical landmark and the protesting. Having been a part of (never organized) stuff like that, I can certainly say that you probably had your hands full getting things done, and done right. It is hard work, but the pay off is big. I can respect that.

In regards to this thread: for me, I'm not sure what stage this 'movement' is at. It hasn't really materialized into something tangible in the traditional sense yet, simply because it is unconvential to begin with. The only real tangible items are the donations to Child's Play and perhaps some media coverage. Also, this forum thread is a minority of the people who feel the same way and might want some of the same things that we state as a community state here on the thread. I think that is where this is at, we are a community and not an organization per se. I can see it moving that way when it needs to, but I'm not sure the environment calls for it yet.

[InsaneNarwhal]

Just gonna throw this out while I snack down and watch some Iron Chef. Seriously guys, if you're angry or frustrated. If you want to argue with someone. If you're not sure what to do. It's probably time to take a breather. Stay happy, stay nice. Grab some food, watch some tv, go for a jog, decompress. Then come back and rejoin the community.

Choices matter- Hold that line.

[cyrrant]

ReavousX wrote...

I'll throw a few things out, and see what sticks.

Designating a "leader" isn't all that wise. Titles aren't really needed, nor is anyone going to take this more seriously if there are titles anyways. It's a video game, people. Anyone outside of the gaming industry will be quick to write us off as angry kids, cute little titles aren't going to change that.

What IS working (despite this notion that non-traditional movements don't work) is this natural system of leaders stepping forward on their own, through their actions and statements. The facebook, the input from guys like atghunter...the cream rises to the top, so to speak. The movement has already be noticed and acknowledged in the media, without need for a "spokesperson".

If we need to say anything, as a movement and community, we have all the tools needed to throw together a survey of ourselves and let the results speak. This is the internet, and we have countless tools right at our fingertips.

The biggest thing right now is to keep the interest up, keep spreading the message, and yes, be civil. There's plenty of ammunition to use without name calling or attacking Bioware. Casey's "A, B, C endings" quote with the picture of the three choices is ample material. Honestly, if you're trying to "fight" for the movement, that picture alone is a quality weapon.

Again, to everyone. Be cool. If you're not particularly sold on the movement, I ask that you keep an open mind, and if by chance some random person on the internet comes at you with an attack...write them off as such, because there are plenty of well meaning, respectful people here to discuss the topics at hand with.

This guy has it.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
We may not need a leader, but we need a system on designating who is speaking for us. Not just some random people saying they will speak for us. Splintering at this stage will make people not take us seriously.

This is going to be tricky. From what I've seen, though, leaders and spokespeople are emerging through merit. Those who feel they aren't up to the task are staying back. In general this is going to be difficult, but I think we'll manage.

As much as I like solid systems, I don't know if we'll be able to come up with a good one that doesn't also fracture this movement.

Fact is, we NEED to. You may not like it, but if people want to take us seriously, we have to present a united and organized front. A house divided can not stand.