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EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*


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#4176
vigna

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rickelmo wrote...

InsaneNarwhal wrote...

We don't need to do anything at PAX that would potentially ruin what is usually such a great event. We just need to keep talking about our dissatisfaction with the ending and your resolve to not purchase any other DLC or MP weapon packs and such until this issue is resolved. Keep it simple, clear, and civil.

And on that note. I'm gonna take a food break. Play nice. =)


 Unfortunately, I don't think most people have the willpower to just not buy dlc. We all talk a big game but protests like these usually end up with the protestors doing exactly what they were going against. Just look at that Call of Duty: Black Ops boycott. At the end of the day, people will most likely buy the dlc, and that is why promising to "never buy a Bioware product again" is useless. So doing something at PAX that shows maturity and the will to do what is right by the Mass Effect franchise is probably the best idea possible (considering a charity still gets gaming sites calling us entitled).

 Whoever organizes this PAX thing just needs to know that one false move can ruin any chance of getting a new ending. One Kotaku article talking about how "entitled" we are can do more damage than I'd like to admit.

I only buy about 3 or 4 games a year. that is why games like ME are so important to me. Replayability is very important.  In this day and age of play 8 hour and forget them type vdeo games only certain games even grabb my attention. notably stuff like DA, Skyrim, o  ME type things.
Holding the line at purchase, and holding off on playing are not difficult for some of us.

#4177
TheLostGenius

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I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

#4178
Elvwood

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Not sure if anyone has seen this or not From The New York daily news
http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1040725

It does not support us and calls us fanboys
and again compares Movie, TV endings to Game endings

#4179
ReavousX

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How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

#4180
Totally Not Swaggacide

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We will not be ignored. Never relent. Hold The Line

#4181
Deathfromabo

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Regardless of whether we need or have a leader anyone going to PAX should be able to voice their opinions. All they need to remeber is everything we have been exemplifying in this thread, civility, clear demands and respect.

Our choices should matter: Hold the Line

#4182
vigna

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TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

many of us are envious that people liked the ending. It would be easier than not liking it. seriously.

#4183
myrmedon419

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Well we could start a campaign to buy the rights to ME universe and content, rehire the ME1 writer and fix it.

We could also get very litigious and ponder fraudulent inducement "A successful fraudulent inducement claim requires a claimant to establish that it “reasonably relied” upon promises of future conduct made by another party. However, a court may find it unreasonable for a party to rely on statements or promises, for instance, when not contained within a written agreement, when that agreement contains a merger clause. In such cases, reliance on the oral promises may be found to be unreasonable, and it will not be held that there was reasonable reliance on such representations."

I'm not advocating either as practical, or even worth the effort in the end. Just two ideas from a disappointed fan of the series I don't think have been discussed in the preceding 168 pages.

Commander Shepards of the world, are you ready to bring to bear the full might of whatever you can against the Electronic Arts corporation?

#4184
ArmyKnifeX

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Carnage752 wrote...
Fact is, we NEED to. You may not like it, but if people want to take us seriously, we have to present a united and organized front. A house divided can not stand.


I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any real divisions come up with regards to the big, important issues.

#4185
InsaneNarwhal

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TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.


I don't really think it is a minority of people at this point. But I am not offended at people that like the ending. I'm happy for them, if they could enjoy it. It isn't the kind of closure most of us both wanted and expected from comments prior to release. Thanks for stopping by though. =3

#4186
Carnage752

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ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

#4187
Razorsteel

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Remember, a flame starts with a spark.
Our choices should matter: Hold the Line

#4188
nightshadeofvoid

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I am not a big forum type, mostly a lurker, but I dont think we need someone at Pax to ask questions. My reasons for this is the fact that we are getting the attention of many media outlets(for better or worse) as it is. If there has been no announcement by then the media will ask. This large of a consumer fan base protesting a company's game is going to be wondered about. Now I will admit they probably wont ask specificly if there are any changes or fixes in the works but even just a question about how the protest is expected to affect sales still gets us in their face. I am sure that they will have preset talking points and will not want to diverge from them but even if they have a "stock" answer to any question involving us it means we are getting to them. If you do go to Pax I humbly ask that you hold true and act in clear and proffesional manner and I also wish you the best of luck.
I personally do not expect a quick resolution to this and am not sure I will care about it if it comes but I will not support Bioware if they truly believe they can treat their customers this way. I dont need a leader to do what I feel is right but if you feel that a persons ideas are good then please(no sarcasm) follow them or their example. We all hold the line in our own way.

Holding the line

#4189
ReavousX

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Elvwood wrote...

Not sure if anyone has seen this or not From The New York daily news
http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1040725

It does not support us and calls us fanboys
and again compares Movie, TV endings to Game endings


Just a quick hit piece with the motive of bringing traffic in.  It's much faster to write a dismissive piece with keywords in the headline to do the heavy lifting than to actually put forth the thought required to deliver serious analysis. 

#4190
cyrrant

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myrmedon419 wrote...

Well we could start a campaign to buy the rights to ME universe and content, rehire the ME1 writer and fix it.

We could also get very litigious and ponder fraudulent inducement "A successful fraudulent inducement claim requires a claimant to establish that it “reasonably relied” upon promises of future conduct made by another party. However, a court may find it unreasonable for a party to rely on statements or promises, for instance, when not contained within a written agreement, when that agreement contains a merger clause. In such cases, reliance on the oral promises may be found to be unreasonable, and it will not be held that there was reasonable reliance on such representations."

I'm not advocating either as practical, or even worth the effort in the end. Just two ideas from a disappointed fan of the series I don't think have been discussed in the preceding 168 pages.

Commander Shepards of the world, are you ready to bring to bear the full might of whatever you can against the Electronic Arts corporation?


These would be unproductive, I think.  Though the idea of buying the rights is a nice hypothetical, the series is worth millions, we only (hah!) managed to raise $63,000 for charity, I don't think we'd have much more support for buying the rights.

Going all litigious on EA/Bioware won't get us what we want either.  We are all here because we love Mass Effect, and I'm not sure that a court-ordered ending would satisfy that many people.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

#4191
Xellith

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Elvwood wrote...

Not sure if anyone has seen this or not From The New York daily news
http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1040725

It does not support us and calls us fanboys
and again compares Movie, TV endings to Game endings


Was gonna post on that article - however the people posting comments there are already doing a stellar job at openning up the can of whoopass.

#4192
Carnage752

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ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
Fact is, we NEED to. You may not like it, but if people want to take us seriously, we have to present a united and organized front. A house divided can not stand.


I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any real divisions come up with regards to the big, important issues.

I'm talking about speaking for us. We don't want an outraged, pissed off fan speaking for us. We want a calm, reasonable fan to speak for us. And if we let a bunch of people speak for us, and random people at that, the chances this could go bad skyrocket.

We need to play it safe with PAX. Going there is already a risk.

#4193
ReavousX

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Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.


And where did I say to have anyone SPEAK FOR US?  No where.  I said the exact opposite.  

The panel will be open to fans, period.  The chances of someone going and asking an ending related question are far greater than someone going and saying "Hey I'm so and so from the Retake movement."  Seriously.  Actually, it's even more likely that NO ONE asking questions will introduce themselves.

I don't think I'm the one not getting things...again, I said the complete opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.

#4194
Moirai

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Elvwood wrote...

Not sure if anyone has seen this or not From The New York daily news
http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1040725

It does not support us and calls us fanboys
and again compares Movie, TV endings to Game endings


Typical. :(

In which case it would probably be a good idea not to view the page and give them page hits really.

#4195
Razorsteel

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FTC guy, sheesh... Every movement seems to have a Crazy Ivan.

Modifié par Razorsteel, 19 mars 2012 - 02:41 .


#4196
Xellith

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I suggest that ANYONE who wants to ask questions and wants to consider themself affiliated with the retake movement shouldnt write the questions themselves but should be given some questions to ask by us - the retake members. Could add questions to a poll and vote and get whoever gets a chance to ask a question to ask them in order of vote priority. Just a suggestion.

Either way they need to be well thought out questions.

#4197
NAWhisperBlade

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 Hello All,

I have taken the time to read, in detail, some of the most well-constructed posts about movement organizations here. Some of them are very interesting. However, none have yet touched upon the most critical way of really winning this fight.

I am an ex government intelligence officer. My specialization was Insurgency Organization and Deniable Operations. I think this long thread is missing a few key points in terms of organizing an effective counter-offensive to BioWare. We have had analytics from military and academic perspective. I'd like to offer my take from a purely strategic take. Note: I am not discrediting anyone, nor do I endorse extreme measures. Merely, these are excerpted from what a real insurgency against a government would be like in terms of planning and execution.

1. Concentrated Operations - Isolate the enemy

We need to reduce our outcry against EA, BioWare and BioWare PR down to specifically BioWare. Why? EA is the umbrella company of BioWare. To strategically attack BioWare in isolation means that EA will either have no choice but to join the fight, or to abandon BioWare to its own demise. Either cause will be beneficial. The former being that EA's participation will draw tremendous coverage and outrage, while the latter will mean that BioWare is left to a sinking boat and destroys the corporate-publishing relations. Remember - EA is a publisher and a funding source. It is not the game-maker.

2. Targeting Intelligence

In the real world, this means killing, maiming, or disabling key persons. However, given that we aren't going to kill anyone, this means operative measures must change. Key persons are targeted and attacked relentlessly and painted black. Every time they voice an opinion, that would be drowned and mired at a tremendously disproportionate ratio in public venues enough to discredit them. The same lie told a thousand times becomes the truth. Since BioWare has already done this to gamers, there's no reason why the gamers cannot hold them to the same moral standards.

3. Sympathizers

There are key employees and persons in the hostile camp not necessarily opposed to the movement. These people are found and swayed to the new cause. With charming rhetoric, these key individuals can be won over to contribute to the opposing front. At best, they join the cause. At worse, they promise to keep quiet and withdraw support for the enemy.

4. Propaganda

This is important. People do not get fired up by long posts, but rather slogans and charming rhetoric. We need videos, music, blood and passion fueling material to work up the masses. Hold the line? Let's really make people remember that. Music. Images. Graphics. You name it.

5. Kill Order

To take down a government at the end, you need guns and bullets. In this case, it's to give BioWare absolutely no respite in Media Coverage. More people need to find more media companies to cover this war, but not to cover it in a perspective of "Pissed Off Gamers vs Artistic Integrity". Instead, the better way and monetizing way for news agencies to cover it would be "Gaming corporation sells false product advertising to 3.5 million users, causes social uproar over social media.".


6. Fuel the fire

The more passionate, the better.

Again - This is just a government take down. Whether or not this ends up happening is not something in which I endorse or believe. This does make me miss my job. 

Modifié par NAWhisperBlade, 19 mars 2012 - 02:42 .


#4198
Totally Not Swaggacide

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Is EA/Bioware just waiting for us to get bored and tired and give up?
How long will they play the waiting game us?
Are they testing our patience?
We will get what we want, do they honestly care?

#4199
Carnage752

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ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.


And where did I say to have anyone SPEAK FOR US?  No where.  I said the exact opposite.  

The panel will be open to fans, period.  The chances of someone going and asking an ending related question are far greater than someone going and saying "Hey I'm so and so from the Retake movement."  Seriously.  Actually, it's even more likely that NO ONE asking questions will introduce themselves.

I don't think I'm the one not getting things...again, I said the complete opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.

Are you saying we should choose the fans that speak or let any fan there speak?

#4200
MajorUhlan

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Razorsteel wrote...

FTC guy, sheesh... Every movement seems to have it's Crazy Ivans.


Hahaha! "Full stop, all quiet."
"What is a Crazy Ivan?"
"Sometimes, Russian sub commanders like to see what is in their baffles by turning suddenly. They call it a 'Crazy Ivan..."

I loved Hunt for the Red October!