9972 réponses à ce sujet

[ReavousX]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is EA/Bioware just waiting for us to get bored and tired and give up?
How long will they play the waiting game us?
Are they testing our patience?
We will get what we want, do they honestly care?

Well, they're certainly waiting.  There are a lot of reasons for the waiting though, and I don't think we're the biggest one at all.  They're analyzing numbers, contemplating options, and addressing current in-game issues.

If we get bored and go away during that period of time, well, that's just a bonus for them.

[vigna]

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. That takes charts and statistics which are being gathered. The fact is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to make everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, and try to make the most people happy they can.

Modifié par vigna, 19 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[InsaneNarwhal]

NAWhisperBlade wrote...

 Hello All,

I have taken the time to read, in detail, some of the most well-constructed posts about movement organizations here. Some of them are very interesting. However, none have yet touched upon the most critical way of really winning this fight.

I am an ex government intelligence officer. My specialization was Insurgency Organization and Deniable Operations. I think this long thread is missing a few key points in terms of organizing an effective counter-offensive to BioWare. We have had analytics from military and academic perspective. I'd like to offer my take from a purely strategic take. Note: I am not discrediting anyone, nor do I endorse extreme measures. Merely, these are excerpted from what a real insurgency against a government would be like in terms of planning and execution.

1. Concentrated Operations - Isolate the enemy

We need to reduce our outcry against EA, BioWare and BioWare PR down to specifically BioWare. Why? EA is the umbrella company of BioWare. To strategically attack BioWare in isolation means that EA will either have no choice but to join the fight, or to abandon BioWare to its own demise. Either cause will be beneficial. The former being that EA's participation will draw tremendous coverage and outrage, while the latter will mean that BioWare is left to a sinking boat and destroys the corporate-publishing relations. Remember - EA is a publisher and a funding source. It is not the game-maker.

2. Targeting Intelligence

In the real world, this means killing, maiming, or disabling key persons. However, given that we aren't going to kill anyone, this means operative measures must change. Key persons are targeted and attacked relentlessly and painted black. Every time they voice an opinion, that would be drowned and mired at a tremendously disproportionate ratio in public venues enough to discredit them. The same lie told a thousand times becomes the truth. Since BioWare has already done this to gamers, there's no reason why the gamers cannot hold them to the same moral standards.

3. Sympathizers

There are key employees and persons in the hostile camp not necessarily opposed to the movement. These people are found and swayed to the new cause. With charming rhetoric, these key individuals can be won over to contribute to the opposing front. At best, they join the cause. At worse, they promise to keep quiet and withdraw support for the enemy.

4. Propaganda

This is important. People do not get fired up by long posts, but rather slogans and charming rhetoric. We need videos, music, blood and passion fueling material to work up the masses. Hold the line? Let's really make people remember that. Music. Images. Graphics. You name it.

5. Kill Order

To take down a government at the end, you need guns and bullets. In this case, it's to give BioWare absolutely no respite in Media Coverage. More people need to find more media companies to cover this war, but not to cover it in a perspective of "Pissed Off Gamers vs Artistic Integrity". Instead, the better way and monetizing way for news agencies to cover it would be "Gaming corporation sells false product advertising to 3.5 million users, causes social uproar over social media.".


6. Fuel the fire

The more passionate, the better.

Again - This is just a government take down. Whether or not this ends up happening is not something in which I endorse or believe. 

Yeah. Not to be rude, but that sounds like exactly the opposite of the way most people want to go about this. 

[Carnage752]

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

[Michotic]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is EA/Bioware just waiting for us to get bored and tired and give up?
How long will they play the waiting game us?
Are they testing our patience?
We will get what we want, do they honestly care?

Right now, BioWare and EA are assessing the situation. The game has been out for less than two weeks in some areas, and even less than that in others. Also, it's the weekend. I doubt there will be much of a response at this point. I am interested to see what else will be said on BW/EA's behalf, but right now, I think it's too early to expect much from them.

This will take time. It's not going to happen overnight. The most important thing is to keep a cool heal. We're all here together.

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[Razorsteel]

MajorUhlan wrote...

Razorsteel wrote...

FTC guy, sheesh... Every movement seems to have it's Crazy Ivans.

Hahaha! "Full stop, all quiet."
"What is a Crazy Ivan?"
"Sometimes, Russian sub commanders like to see what is in their baffles by turning suddenly. They call it a 'Crazy Ivan..."

I loved Hunt for the Red October!

Me too, it is one of my favorite movies.

[Captiosus77]

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

If it really were a "minority", they wouldn't even be starting lines of dialog on the boards, Twitter, and Facebook. People who are dissatisfied with the ending are not a minority. Those of us posting here vocally might be construed as a minority, but only in that we keep posting.

A minority wouldn't be getting such comprehensive coverage from Forbes, whose only stake in the entire situation is how the scenario will affect business for Bioware and EA.

Modifié par Captiosus77, 19 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[Zine2]

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

Anyone who thinks that the ending is actually good is either ignorant of its implications, or is seriously messed up and condones the message that "Genocide is an acceptable solution to imagined racial/species differences based on an ideology of hatred".

Educating the former is just business. Arguing with the latter is a service to humanity.

Also, anyone who is still buying the "Vocal minority" line from Bioware has clearly never taken a statistics course. The ending is OVERWHELMINGLY reviled. Five years from now people will not look back and say how brillant the ending is. Five years from now people are STILL gonna say it was a repulsive ending.

Modifié par Zine2, 19 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[ReavousX]

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

And where did I say to have anyone SPEAK FOR US?  No where.  I said the exact opposite.  

The panel will be open to fans, period.  The chances of someone going and asking an ending related question are far greater than someone going and saying "Hey I'm so and so from the Retake movement."  Seriously.  Actually, it's even more likely that NO ONE asking questions will introduce themselves.

I don't think I'm the one not getting things...again, I said the complete opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.

Are you saying we should choose the fans that speak or let any fan there speak?

I'm saying it's going to be a panel discussion full of fans and media.  We don't need to have any say in who says what, only ask that people don't openly say that they're anyone involved with the movement.  I'm all for someone going and trying to ask questions, just leave Retake out of the equation.  

That solves the entire issue, really.  If members of the group want to organize and go together, that's cool I think, just don't go acting a fool and throwing around the Retake name.  

But, one point I was trying to make is that it's VERY likely that someone in the media will ask questions regarding the ending and all things related before any fan gets a crack anyways.  If the media name drops Retake, cool, more media coverage.  

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Are we the Rebel Alliance and EA/BW the Empire?
If do who Luke, Han, Leia, Vader, and the Emperor.
I'll be Lando because he is cool

[HK-90210]

Zine2 wrote...

Anyone who thinks that the ending is actually good is either ignorant of its implications, or is seriously messed up and condones the message that "Genocide is an acceptable solution to imagined racial/species differences based on an ideology of hatred".

Educating the former is just business. Arguing with the latter is a service to humanity.

Also, anyone who is still buying the "Vocal minority" line from Bioware has clearly never taken a statistics course. The ending is OVERWHELMINGLY reviled. Five years from now people will not look back and say how brillant the ending is. Five years from now people are STILL gonna say it was a repulsive ending.

And how do you feel about that?

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 19 mars 2012 - 02:51 .

[Carnage752]

Zine2 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

Anyone who thinks that the ending is actually good is either ignorant of its implications, or is seriously messed up and condones the message that "Genocide is an acceptable solution to imagined racial/species differences based on an ideology of hatred".

Educating the former is just business. Arguing with the latter is a service to humanity.

Also, anyone who is still buying the "Vocal minority" line from Bioware has clearly never taken a statistics course. The ending is OVERWHELMINGLY reviled. Five years from now people will not look back and say how brillant the ending is. Five years from now people are STILL gonna say it was a repulsive ending.

That is rude and inconsiderate. They might have genuinely liked the ending. Who are you to say they are wrong?

[Biotic Budah]

 One thing that sticks in my craw was that Casey Hudson, and Bioware in general were saying that this is the ending THEY wanted. And that is the problem. It should have been the ending their GAMERS wanted. This to me came off as an arrogant response. They immediately follow that with "We listen to our fans, and fan feedback is important to us." It's as if they said "We did it our way, but we'll be happy to hear you complain about it." If there were a fixed narrative like in the Halo series, I would have went along with it, but you gave us too much control, had us invest into the world. We deserved better and I thought Bioware was better than that.

Secondly, Bioware knew they were going to have backlash from the get go because they revised their code of conduct policy for their forums just days before the games release. 

The next thing is that you have most these gaming writers/reviewers/shows who for the most part support Bioware's ME3 ending wholeheartedly. The exception being Forbes magazine. For one, it was a bad business decision to put out an ending the creators wanted, rather than one that would please their customers. Two, perhaps they forgot to put that writer on the swag list? Just kidding? More than likely it's that the writers in Forbes cannot be scared by threats of not getting game exclusives from EA. These gaming writers/reviewers/shows act as if it will absolutely set a bad precedent to change the ending. WRONG. Bethesda changed the ending of Fallout 3 with Broken Steel and laughed all the way to the bank because the DLC that followed actually meant something. It is hard to see how any follow up DLC can enhance ME3 after that ending. 

In closing, I thank the person who wrote all of this for this thread. You really hit on a lot of key points. Bioware should simply fess up and move on.

Mass Effect 3 was supposed to be the game that set the tone for this decade. It was going to be THE definitive, groundbreaking game of this century. Instead of being remembered for that they will be remembered as the guys who alienated their gamers because of how THEY felt the game should end. Let me know how much money you make off of "Artistic License.". 

Modifié par Biotic Budah, 19 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[Razorsteel]

Captiosus77 wrote...


If it really were a "minority", they wouldn't even be starting lines of dialog on the boards, Twitter, and Facebook. People who are dissatisfied with the ending are not a minority. Those of us posting here vocally might be construed as a minority, but only in that we keep posting.

The "minority" speak is an attempt to marginalize us, just be civil. Ask them how many lumps do they want in their tea, and move on.

[cinderburster]

Zine2 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

Anyone who thinks that the ending is actually good is either ignorant of its implications, or is seriously messed up and condones the message that "Genocide is an acceptable solution to imagined racial/species differences based on an ideology of hatred".

Educating the former is just business. Arguing with the latter is a service to humanity.

Also, anyone who is still buying the "Vocal minority" line from Bioware has clearly never taken a statistics course. The ending is OVERWHELMINGLY reviled. Five years from now people will not look back and say how brillant the ending is. Five years from now people are STILL gonna say it was a repulsive ending.

I think calling someone seriously messed up for their opinion is a liiiiiittle too close to the name-calling we're all trying to avoid, don't you?

[MajorUhlan]

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

Honestly, there is no real way to control people anyway. There will be many, many people, who will be at PAX East and other locations, who have never been to this forum thread, who will speak thier minds if asked. All we can hope is that they will be rational, intelligent, concise, honest, and civil. And, maybe, they will have seen this thread and can give some of our viewpoints while they are at it.

[ArmyKnifeX]

 So in the interest of resolving a lot of this, why don't I just paste our mission statement here. Yes, I wrote it, but so far people seem to like it. It's a list of talking poitns I came up with to reflect as many of our concerns as possible without really putting words into people's mouths. If you're worried about getting interviewed and caught off guard, you can just refer back to this:

We hold grievances with the current ending and EA/BioWare because:

• The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers.

• The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans.

• The response from BioWare needs to change.

• We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We dedicate our time to this cause because we genuinely care about Mass Effect and its story.

• We want to see a product that we, as human beings, as consumers, as fans, and as players can be proud of.

• We wish to see a conclusion to the game that does the rest of the series justice - in terms of concluding the story and providing the players with both choices and consequences to prior choices.

Retake Mass Effect 3 - Hold the line. 


If you agree with this mission statement then please, stop playing the Mass Effect games. Don't buy new EA/BioWare products. We must show them, beyond the use of this mission statement, that we are willing to use what means we have to convey our message. They will know how many people are playing and for how long with Origin and the EA Network.

I think, Carnage, it's a risk we'll have to take to let people speak for themselves and be themselves. If the press is responsible, they'll go to the individuals who have shown themselves to be organizers and articulate.

If it's a slander piece, it doesn't matter who we pick as an "official spokesperson", they'll still find the kind of person they want to slander us.

[Carnage752]

MajorUhlan wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

Honestly, there is no real way to control people anyway. There will be many, many people, who will be at PAX East and other locations, who have never been to this forum thread, who will speak thier minds if asked. All we can hope is that they will be rational, intelligent, concise, honest, and civil. And, maybe, they will have seen this thread and can give some of our viewpoints while they are at it.

But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

[ReavousX]

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

[cyrrant]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is EA/Bioware just waiting for us to get bored and tired and give up?
How long will they play the waiting game us?
Are they testing our patience?
We will get what we want, do they honestly care?

There are definitive stages to the PR game, and we've gone through a couple so far.  The general idea is that, yes, they are waiting for us to either get bored and go home, or consume ourselves in internicine bickering.

They will play the waiting game for as long as they think that their business interests are served.  If enough fans are in favor of ending DLC, then they would be foolish not to cash in.

They are testing our patience, and our resolve.

Some people choose to let what little faith they have in Bioware keep them sustained.  Bioware has previously been a very good company to its fans, so this is legitimate.  That being said, these same people are also protesting loudly here because they know that the ending was not what Shepard's story deserved.  We will get what we want as long as we continue to let our voices be heard.  We are Retake Mass Effect and we will be here to hold the line until the ending is fixed.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

 So in the interest of resolving a lot of this, why don't I just paste our mission statement here. Yes, I wrote it, but so far people seem to like it. It's a list of talking poitns I came up with to reflect as many of our concerns as possible without really putting words into people's mouths. If you're worried about getting interviewed and caught off guard, you can just refer back to this:

We hold grievances with the current ending and EA/BioWare because:

• The game's ending fails to meet what we were promised as consumers.

• The game's ending fails to meet our expectations as fans.

• The response from BioWare needs to change.

• We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We dedicate our time to this cause because we genuinely care about Mass Effect and its story.

• We want to see a product that we, as human beings, as consumers, as fans, and as players can be proud of.

• We wish to see a conclusion to the game that does the rest of the series justice - in terms of concluding the story and providing the players with both choices and consequences to prior choices.

Retake Mass Effect 3 - Hold the line. 


If you agree with this mission statement then please, stop playing the Mass Effect games. Don't buy new EA/BioWare products. We must show them, beyond the use of this mission statement, that we are willing to use what means we have to convey our message. They will know how many people are playing and for how long with Origin and the EA Network.

I think, Carnage, it's a risk we'll have to take to let people speak for themselves and be themselves. If the press is responsible, they'll go to the individuals who have shown themselves to be organizers and articulate.

If it's a slander piece, it doesn't matter who we pick as an "official spokesperson", they'll still find the kind of person they want to slander us.

They lost a lot of credibility though if they have to rely on people we don't endorse to speak for us. Kinda exposes them as trying to slander us. I see your plan as an uneccesarry risk.

On another note, this is a good list

[Hydralysk]

Zine2 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

Anyone who thinks that the ending is actually good is either ignorant of its implications, or is seriously messed up and condones the message that "Genocide is an acceptable solution to imagined racial/species differences based on an ideology of hatred".

Educating the former is just business. Arguing with the latter is a service to humanity.

Also, anyone who is still buying the "Vocal minority" line from Bioware has clearly never taken a statistics course. The ending is OVERWHELMINGLY reviled. Five years from now people will not look back and say how brillant the ending is. Five years from now people are STILL gonna say it was a repulsive ending.

Liking the ending does not mean you're stupid, his opinion that it's good just means he feels differently about it. We aren't happy and they are, that's it, and there should be no problem with anyone with a different opinion as long as he's not trying to force me to like it.

And if he is then you just ignore him.

[MajorUhlan]

Biotic Budah wrote...

 One thing that sticks in my craw was that Casey Hudson, and Bioware in general were saying that this is the ending THEY wanted. And that is the problem. It should have been the ending their GAMERS wanted. This to me came off as an arrogant response. They immediately follow that with "We listen to our fans, and fan feedback is important to us." It's as if they said "We did it our way, but we'll be happy to hear you complain about it." If there were a fixed narrative like in the Halo series, I would have went along with it, but you gave us too much control, had us invest into the world. We deserved better and I thought Bioware was better than that.

Secondly, Bioware knew they were going to have backlash from the get go because they revised their code of conduct policy for their forums just days before the games release. 

The next thing is that you have most these gaming writers/reviewers/shows who for the most part support Bioware's ME3 ending wholeheartedly. The exception being Forbes magazine. For one, it was a bad business decision to put out an ending the creators wanted, rather than one that would please their customers. Two, perhaps they forgot to put that writer on the swag list? Just kidding? More than likely it's that the writers in Forbes cannot be scared by threats of not getting game exclusives from EA. These gaming writers/reviewers/shows act as if it will absolutely set a bad precedent to change the ending. WRONG. Bethesda changed the ending of Fallout 3 with Broken Steel and laughed all the way to the bank because the DLC that followed actually meant something. It is hard to see how any follow up DLC can enhance ME3 after that ending. 

In closing, I thank the person who wrote all of this for this thread. You really hit on a lot of key points. Bioware should simply fess up and move on.

Mass Effect 3 was supposed to be the game that set the tone for this decade. It was going to be THE definitive, groundbreaking game of this century. Instead of being remembered for that they will be remembered as the guys who alienated their gamers because of how THEY felt the game should end. Let me know how much money you make off of "Artistic License.". 

There was a really great link provided by one of the other posters on the thread that linked to another forum thread about what Bioware has said and done. It was really useful to see all of the comments in one place to really get a feel for "what was promised" in a sense.

Lemme see if I can find it...

[ArmyKnifeX]

Carnage752 wrote...
But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

I can tell you right now that because of the nature of this movement, and how, remember, a key component of our complaints revolve around personal choice, and our own personal narratives, a LOT of people won't be happy with having other people "designate" someone to speak for them.

We're better off not touching this unless it becomes a real problem.

[cyrrant]

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

The two of you need to hug it out.  Also, I sense a little misunderstanding between the two of you, can you take it to PMs and see if this can be resolved there.  If not, cool, come back and we can find someone to mediate.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Modifié par cyrrant, 19 mars 2012 - 02:52 .