9972 réponses à ce sujet

[vigna]

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

Carnage, i'll end up just agreeing to disagree on that. people don't necessarily need to invoke the name. we aren't a 501c3. the movement is a feeling and what joins us is disatisfaction. What would be said beyond  "we don't like the ending"?   As I stated earlier..we all have different nitpicks about the end, where it goes wrong, at what point it jumps shark, etc.    That's just my POV....and i'm probably wrong. Just chiming in..I'm not trying to be antagonistic or trying to derail this thread at all. so, i'll leave it alone.    I appreciate those people actively working on building polls, flow charts, and gauging  consensus for us. That is what will ultimately win the war--that and media attention, and loss of revenue.

Modifié par vigna, 19 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[ReavousX]

Carnage752 wrote...

MajorUhlan wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

vigna wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

How about we keep it simple in regards to PAX? If you attend the panel, and you're lucky enough to get to ask a question, don't say "Hey I'm RandomGuy432 from the BSN, and I'm a part of the Retake Mass Effect movement!"

Ask it as a fan, and be cool (you'll see that this is a frequent phrase of mine). We don't need a SPOKESPERSON to go and ask questions, or have questions asked to them for that matter. Please. That's silly, and probably the worst way to get the conversation between us and Bioware started.

This whole mentality I'm seeing is acting as if we're the only people on the planet who dislike the ending of ME3. I guarantee you that right now there are more people who dislike the ending of ME3 out in the world who will never touch the BSN than there will be here, or in the Facebook group. So, let's not put ourselves in this box where we pretend that only people in this thread or BSN won't like the ME3 ending, or ask questions about it.

I'm not saying that to marginalize our group, trust me on that. An organized 40k is FAR more effective than unorganized masses.

Reavous, you don't get it. We can't just let any random person speak for us. What if that FTC guy was the fan picked out? We have come too far to leave something as trivial as who will speak for us to chance.

But honestly no one has to speak for US. They can just speak for themselves.  All we want is a new ending...it will take time to figure out what is appropriate. that take charts and statistics which are being gathered. the fcat is there is no one thing we want. we all want different things. We only agree that the end ruined the game  or hurt our love for the game. Am I  wrong...maybe I am?    Calculating what people were most disappointed with will take time......Bioware will not be  able to m,ake everyone happy--if they do anything they will look at the charts, see what is doable, adn try to make the most people happy they can.

They won't see it as speaking for themselves. They will see it as speaking for all of us. That's my whole point.

Honestly, there is no real way to control people anyway. There will be many, many people, who will be at PAX East and other locations, who have never been to this forum thread, who will speak thier minds if asked. All we can hope is that they will be rational, intelligent, concise, honest, and civil. And, maybe, they will have seen this thread and can give some of our viewpoints while they are at it.

But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

Or we could just openly make a statement that "NO OFFICIAL FROM RETAKE MASS EFFECT WILL BE ASKING QUESTIONS AT PAX" and be done with it.  That seems far more effective.  Fans who go, and are a part of the movement will do their thing as fans.  If for some reason they try otherwise, then it's a non-issue because we stated far ahead of time that we'd not have any sort of "official" person there.

[TheLostGenius]

vigna wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...

I think its great that this game has riled up such a huge controversy, but at the same time I don't understand why the minority detractors to the ending (who are VERY vocal online) are so offended that some people actually really liked the ending, and thought it was very cool and high concept sci fi? That maybe after a Galactic Holocaust your LI and some decisions you made would probably be twisted into ashes in the wind?

Masterwork in emotional and expository storytelling, The ending is the real deal. I love Marauder Shields though, hes a good spokes person for you folks.

many of us are envious that people liked the ending. It would be easier than not liking it. seriously.

THe game teases the ideal ending fairly consistently throughout part 3. That what makes the ending so affecting. If you think of the level of destruction the Reaper entities pose, its hard pressed to say that the "big decisions" you made in the earlier games really were all that affective. 

Before ME3 you accomplish two major victories against the nemesis entity, The Reapers.

1. You stop Soverign the Vanguard Of The Citadel from opening up the relays, thus delaying the invasion and adding a little bit more hope to the possibility of defeating them.

2. Defeating the indoctrinated Collector's, essentially once again slowing down the beginning of the invasion, occupation, and mass holocaust/genetic harvesting of all species. 

The ending was a disaster, but if it wasn't it would have been selling out the entire story arch for fan pandering. In real life love is often times tragic, issues with people feeling bad about losing their LIs in the game is very interesting, because this happens to everyone in actual life, and a game made you feel this loss, thats a very new thing for this medium. Real life never has happy endings, just happy times, and Shepard has these with his friends and crew mates...though you as the role player command his identity in many ways.

For example on my Renegade playthrough I murdered Mordin, and so one of the most beautifully orchestrated and emotionally impactful cutscenes (from all the build up and the presentation) I've ever seen ina  video game.:happy:

[Optimus J]

InsaneNarwhal wrote...

Yeah. Not to be rude, but that sounds like exactly the opposite of the way most people want to go about this. 

Because it IS. We don't want to take over Bioware. We don't want to define how they will work from now on. We just want that they keep the premise of the games and don't take everything from us with that epic fail ending.

We trusted them until that crappy ending,as long as the decision are meaninful premise is obeyed I don't want to take control of anything but my Shepard.

[Ender99]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Are we the Rebel Alliance and EA/BW the Empire?
If do who Luke, Han, Leia, Vader, and the Emperor.
I'll be Lando because he is cool

Aww I wanted to be Calrissian!

On a more serious note, perhaps it's already been suggested, but I think we need a website. I think one centralized, organized, information hub would help us tremendously.

[TransientNomad]

Just thought I'd chime in saying these pages have been a very interesting insight into the issues at hand and views of both camps.

Hold the line

[VinHikaru]

I support the campaign to convince the developers to provide better ending options, but I do not support all of these posters suddenly equating the Retake Mass Effect movement with military strategy and war tactics. We're not "targeting key individuals" like we're soldiers in an army. If you're going to take this movement seriously, be respectful and serious about it...use peaceful and reasonable venues like these forums and social networking sites to make your voices heard and offer constructive criticism.

Everyone just wants to be the next atghunter and provide their "insider" expertise. I respect your career paths, but we don't need ex-CIA telling us how to take down the enemy. Also, Bioware is not an "enemy." They're a company that made a product that many of their customers feel did not live up to its promises.

The Retake Mass Effect movement has a real purpose and a beautiful ideal, even if it is sometimes taken off-topic by people who really don't understand what this movement is about. It's about choice, it's about having options, and it's about holding the developers to their goal of providing a trusting and cooperative relationship with their consumers to create the universes in their video games.

Modifié par VinHikaru, 19 mars 2012 - 02:55 .

[ReavousX]

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

The two of you need to hug it out.  Also, I sense a little misunderstanding between the two of you, can you take it to PMs and see if this can be resolved there.  If not, cool, come back and we can find someone to mediate.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

There's absolutely zero angst in both of our statements.  Zero.  I think it's gonna be alright, we're staying together for the children. 

[ArmyKnifeX]

Carnage752 wrote...
They lost a lot of credibility though if they have to rely on people we don't endorse to speak for us. Kinda exposes them as trying to slander us. I see your plan as an uneccesarry risk.

On another note, this is a good list

I think it's an entirely necessary risk if we want to stay true to our ideals.

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

I can tell you right now that because of the nature of this movement, and how, remember, a key component of our complaints revolve around personal choice, and our own personal narratives, a LOT of people won't be happy with having other people "designate" someone to speak for them.

We're better off not touching this unless it becomes a real problem.

You underestimate how Bioware will play to our emotions if they find out we are letting any random fan speak his mind. They will attempt to agitate, or if they want to go too far, plant someone to make a big fuss and make us look bad.

They want our PR ruined so people don't listen to us. They will exploit any loose end we have. We can't risk that.

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
They lost a lot of credibility though if they have to rely on people we don't endorse to speak for us. Kinda exposes them as trying to slander us. I see your plan as an uneccesarry risk.

On another note, this is a good list

I think it's an entirely necessary risk if we want to stay true to our ideals.

It is our ideals though. You act like this is a dictatorship. A speaker speaks our ideals, the ideals we give him to speak.

[cyrrant]

VinHikaru wrote...

I support the campaign to convince the developers to provide better ending options, but I do not support all of these posters suddenly equating the Retake Mass Effect movement with military strategy and war tactics. We're not "targeting key individuals" like we're soldiers in an army. If you're going to take this movement seriously, be respectful and serious about it...use peaceful and reasonable venues like these forums and social networking sites to make your voices heard and offer constructive criticism.

The Retake Mass Effect movement has a real purpose and a beautiful ideal, even if it is sometimes taken off-topic by people who really don't understand what this movement is about. It's about choice, it's about having options, and it's about holding the developers to their ideal to provide a trusting and cooperative relationship with their consumers to create the universes in their video games.

Here here.  I agree that the idea of targeting individuals is in bad taste.  There are people in the corporation who just work there, and probably had nothing to do with what turned out to be a horrendous ending.  Don't let that humanizing element dull your call for a change, though, because in the end, Bioware as a company screwed up royal, and they now need to come clean and engage with us about the ending.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Ihatebadgames]

To me and this is my opinion only,it's the way you got those endings that tick people off also.If you did not play multiplayer you could not get what most consider the best ending(Shepards death rattle or was that a breath?)Choices frome ME1 and 2 were suposed to matter.ME3 ruined the whole series just for the new player who had no connection to the Normandy team and did not care who lived or died.Players who would only play the game a couple of times then trade it in.I still have Planescape tourment,BG1 and 2,Icewind dale1 and 2  ,Neverwinter Nights.
They used these endings so we would not bother them for more games about Shepard?We all knew that this was a 3 part series,yet Mr. Hudson  said that we have not seen the last of Shepard?
Multiplayer should not affect single player as single player should not affect multiplayer.Better endings with closure.Just say NO to non-story non-endings DLC and Hold the line.

[Carnage752]

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

The two of you need to hug it out.  Also, I sense a little misunderstanding between the two of you, can you take it to PMs and see if this can be resolved there.  If not, cool, come back and we can find someone to mediate.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

There's absolutely zero angst in both of our statements.  Zero.  I think it's gonna be alright, we're staying together for the children. 

This is a logical debate. We have stayed civilized, we are fine.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

This podcast says it all
http://theparanoidga...-bioware-oh-my/

[cyrrant]

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

The two of you need to hug it out.  Also, I sense a little misunderstanding between the two of you, can you take it to PMs and see if this can be resolved there.  If not, cool, come back and we can find someone to mediate.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

There's absolutely zero angst in both of our statements.  Zero.  I think it's gonna be alright, we're staying together for the children. 

That's good...given that he's a husk, is one of the children a Marauder?  Have you thought of any names yet?

[ReavousX]

Carnage752 wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

I can tell you right now that because of the nature of this movement, and how, remember, a key component of our complaints revolve around personal choice, and our own personal narratives, a LOT of people won't be happy with having other people "designate" someone to speak for them.

We're better off not touching this unless it becomes a real problem.

You underestimate how Bioware will play to our emotions if they find out we are letting any random fan speak his mind. They will attempt to agitate, or if they want to go too far, plant someone to make a big fuss and make us look bad.

They want our PR ruined so people don't listen to us. They will exploit any loose end we have. We can't risk that.

Carnage, I think the key point you're missing is that there will be many fans, not necessarily from the Retake movement, asking questions.  It's a big, open forum kind of thing.  Policing the fans there is...not an option. lol

So again, I'd suggest that we float around the idea of just making a statement that no one from Retake will be making any sort of statement/question at PAX, and close the book on it.  

[tfKR3W]

*cough* atghunter should organize us.

[ReavousX]

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

They're not going to "speak" though.  It's a simple process.  You are handed a microphone, you ask a question, and the microphone is taken away.  The name "Retake" won't even be part of the question, unless someone specifically asks what Bioware thinks of the movement.  

And Bioware's answer?  PR babble about how they're so glad to see their fans rally and give to a good cause. 

The two of you need to hug it out.  Also, I sense a little misunderstanding between the two of you, can you take it to PMs and see if this can be resolved there.  If not, cool, come back and we can find someone to mediate.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

There's absolutely zero angst in both of our statements.  Zero.  I think it's gonna be alright, we're staying together for the children. 

That's good...given that he's a husk, is one of the children a Marauder?  Have you thought of any names yet?

Personally, I'd like to name him Marauder Shields.  It's a popular name in Reaper culture, apparently.

[Elvwood]

My Ending Scenario

Boiware Choose
Blue Option= Let yourself be controled by EA Not knowing exactly what your fate will be
Red Option = Ignore the Fans and see future sales destroyed
Green Option - Merge with the Fans and create Symbiosis

This is not an attack is is said in the spirit of fun

[cyrrant]

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

I can tell you right now that because of the nature of this movement, and how, remember, a key component of our complaints revolve around personal choice, and our own personal narratives, a LOT of people won't be happy with having other people "designate" someone to speak for them.

We're better off not touching this unless it becomes a real problem.

You underestimate how Bioware will play to our emotions if they find out we are letting any random fan speak his mind. They will attempt to agitate, or if they want to go too far, plant someone to make a big fuss and make us look bad.

They want our PR ruined so people don't listen to us. They will exploit any loose end we have. We can't risk that.

Carnage, I think the key point you're missing is that there will be many fans, not necessarily from the Retake movement, asking questions.  It's a big, open forum kind of thing.  Policing the fans there is...not an option. lol

So again, I'd suggest that we float around the idea of just making a statement that no one from Retake will be making any sort of statement/question at PAX, and close the book on it.  

I guess I'll join a lively discussion then.  This particular idea of disavowing any sort of official statement at PAX may need to be revised given that it's a prime place to pick up sympathetic media with a well-thought-out argument.  That being said, electing someone as a leader is not necessarily viable given just how diverse a movement we have going on here.  Might I suggest that we have the guy organizing the PAX trip distribute a list of talking points?  Maybe they meet up the day before and ask each other the hard questions to prepare the answers they will need.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Carnage752]

ReavousX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...
But there is a way to control it. If we designate who is speaking for us, they can't use any random angry fans opinions against us.

I can tell you right now that because of the nature of this movement, and how, remember, a key component of our complaints revolve around personal choice, and our own personal narratives, a LOT of people won't be happy with having other people "designate" someone to speak for them.

We're better off not touching this unless it becomes a real problem.

You underestimate how Bioware will play to our emotions if they find out we are letting any random fan speak his mind. They will attempt to agitate, or if they want to go too far, plant someone to make a big fuss and make us look bad.

They want our PR ruined so people don't listen to us. They will exploit any loose end we have. We can't risk that.

Carnage, I think the key point you're missing is that there will be many fans, not necessarily from the Retake movement, asking questions.  It's a big, open forum kind of thing.  Policing the fans there is...not an option. lol

So again, I'd suggest that we float around the idea of just making a statement that no one from Retake will be making any sort of statement/question at PAX, and close the book on it.  

They will exploit any weakness they show. Any anger or entitlement they show the media will center on. We need POSITIVE media coverage. The wrong people speak their minds, and we are re-labeled as whiny brats, and brought right back where we started.

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

I know there a retake me3 twitter but would u guys be interested starting our own sort of a bsn community one?

[cyrrant]

tfKR3W wrote...

*cough* atghunter should organize us.

He doesn't really want to lead us, and has warned against electing some kind of leader.  He told us to look to the organizers as "first among many"-style deals.  We can listen to them and let their opinions advise ours, but don't let your personal convictions be overwritten.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[theflyingzamboni]

I'd like to support those opposing the idea of having leaders for the movement. This isn't the same as a popular political movement, it won't benefit from having a 'face' for people to rally behind. People are rallying behind a cause, and that cause more effectively serves as the 'face.'

The strength in this movement is not having one voice speaking for an indefinite number of people, it is in having a large and definite number of people speaking with one voice.