9972 réponses à ce sujet

[vigna]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is it true EA/BW are being sued by fans for the ending?

No, some lone person filed an FTC compaint though. They did that as an individual.

[Carnage752]

Alright guys. If any of you want to continue discussions with me, PM me please. We are making things tense around here. We are no longer talking about speaking at PAX or leadership on this board. Deal?

[cyrrant]

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is it true EA/BW are being sued by fans for the ending?

No.  One guy filed an FTC complaint which is not (repeat: NOT) a lawsuit.  That won't go anywhere because they need a ton of complaints to start a probe.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[ReavousX]

marshkoala wrote...

@ReavousX and Carnage752
I have a quick question and forgive my ignorance but are either of you part of the Retake Mass Effect group?

Has anyone ever been to a PAX East event? I haven't and am not quite sure of the set-up. Is it like Comic-Con in San Diego where hundreds of fans gather in a room in front of a panel?

Also I believe NAWhisperBlade stated that he wasn't suggesting anyone follow his list but just explaining how you fight(not with fists)a solidly entrenced opponent. Bioware is a huge company and for the last week and a half have been engaging in a PR attack as described by atghunter.
I inferred he was just trying to help.

Don't worry about it Marsh, there's no such thing as a dumb question.

I consider myself as part of the Retake Mass Effect movement (if you mean the BSN "group" I am there as well!).  There's no official indoctrination to the group, but I could benefit from putting one of the pictures in my signature.  

I'm honestly not 100% sure of the set up, but I'm thinking it's very much like Comic-Con or similar conventions.  

I also agree on NAWhisperBlade's statement, I don't think he meant it how a few people took it.

[Kirival]

Whether or not we choose to try and focus on finding a leader we need to keep making our individual voices heard. Personally I'm opposed to such an action at the moment simply because it would divert attention from the real problem at hand (the ending) to choosing a leader and then getting back on track. I also think that the more individual voices are out there, the harder it is for EA/BioWare to write this off as a vocal minority.

[vigna]

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

If we could do it right, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having the people who meet up have some points/questions on hand to ask that we would all like to have addressed.  

The thing there is, if the group did tag their questions/discussions with the Retake name, what happens if media takes that chance to speak with them?  I'd like to think that all involved would be incredibly professional and mature, and do us justice.  But, who knows how it would go, and who knows how we'd look coming out of there.  

When I look at the risk/reward, I think we might be better off holding the line as is, rather than pushing in any sort of "official" manner.

I think part of the problem picking an "official" spokesperson here on the web is that we don't have any real interaction with whoever it is.  If one of the Retakers at whatever pre-PAX meetup is highly intelligent, eloquent, and able to speak in a coherent fashion, then an on-the-spot nomination for official PAX spokesman wouldn't be too objectionable.  Then if media approaches a single member of the group at PAX, the (temporary!) spokesman can be ushered forward.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Again, risk/reward is brutal here.  Lots left to chance.  Something I think COULD work though, is if we drafted a statement aimed at Bioware for PAX, and let THAT be the message conveyed.  It would be a big effort that takes a great deal of time, but we could totally do that.  

Create the top points and present them concisely, in a well written format, then when the general consensus is "Hey, that's pretty good!" we can publish it on all of Retake's platforms, and the folks going to PAX can take it with them.  If they're asked anything, or ask anything, the statement should be the go to piece when it comes to Retake's stance on things when it comes to Bioware at PAX.

I've been trying to rally folks to also create a concise list of demands as well, but things get buried so fast.  That'd be figured out via Google Doc survey, I would think.

I'll consider myself swayed by your idea.  Having an official statement lets you leave it with the media without the risk of someone shooting their mouth off.  If Bioware can have official statements, so can we.  It's all the same PR game in the end.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Not trying to be a dork, but are there any other formats that could be used beyond Google doc ?

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

That one guy is either crazy or brave. Maybe both.
Either the ending is bogus!
Hold the Line.

[cyrrant]

vigna wrote...

Not trying to be a dork, but are there any other formats that could be used beyond Google doc ?

Dork alert!

Apart from maybe circulating something around the boards here?  I'm not up to snuff on what sort of tools the internet provides for mass-edit of a particular work.

[Lexxbomb]

lol what celebrities could we get as the face of this movemnt... I wonder what Seth Green's viewpoint is... how cool would it be to have "Joker" as the face of the movement

[wheelierdan]

i disagree with the calls for formal organization and leadership. The power of this movement has nothing to do with how official it is. it has to do with the fact that so many people feel a certain way. Boiling that down to a leader is counter productive in my opinion.

And since this is a large group of people who generally agree, people are going to have opinions and want to take courses you as a person may not like, but thats how a large loosely organized thing works and you have to realize you can't control it.

If someone wants to go to pax and ask questions let them, if you're so worried about how something reflects on you as an individual then i recommend joining some sort of official card carrying groups.

You can't say, "yay im part of a mufti-thousand member group, and also say hey wait guys don't do or say anything i haven't personally approved of!"

This is just my opinion im just getting the vibe that purity tests are coming the way some are talking.

[Yalision]

Just keep making noise.

[Nightfire78]

Captiosus77 wrote...

TheLostGenius wrote...
The ending was a disaster, but if it wasn't it would have been selling out the entire story arch for fan pandering. In real life love is often times tragic, issues with people feeling bad about losing their LIs in the game is very interesting, because this happens to everyone in actual life, and a game made you feel this loss, thats a very new thing for this medium. Real life never has happy endings, just happy times, and Shepard has these with his friends and crew mates...though you as the role player command his identity in many ways.

While I understand where you're coming from, I disagree that having the option of having a sunshine-and-rainbows ending (which would have to be undoubtedly difficult to achieve) would be construed as "pandering". In a way, I feel that our current crop of endings, where they're all forced to be "tragic", is a continued overuse of a cliche that has been used far too frequently in modern cinema, literature, and even gaming. In a sense, that is pandering, as well.

That said, if someone views their Shepard as a tragic hero, by all means, they should have an option that allows them to play as such. If someone sees their Shepard as a victorious renegade antihero (since Shep can't truly be a villain), that should be an option as well. And if someone wants to work to get the happiest possible ending, that should be accomodated, too.

As many have said, video games are equal parts entertainment and escapism. I don't need to play through 100+ hours of a series to be reminded that real life sucks and then you die. At least give me the option of continuing to play Shepard as I have throughout the other parts of the series, not just three tragic ends that all end with identical with plot hole induced cliffhangers.

Personally,  I probably would have played my Shepard to be a tragic hero, dying at the end if it meant ensuring the survival of the galaxy. While, technically, I can do that with these endings, they leave too many questions about what I actually achieved, and too few choices to determine my own fate.

^Agree.

[Tyrannis Vos]

vigna wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is it true EA/BW are being sued by fans for the ending?

No, some lone person filed an FTC compaint though. They did that as an individual.

The guy actually submitted something to the BBB (Better Business Bureau) as well.

[marshkoala]

@MajorUhlan
Thank you so much for the link. I've been reading this thread on and off and came back from supper and wow it just grew and sortof changed.

Just a thought if this is a big indoor room as Boceephus seemed to indicate it will be loud and chaotic.
Holding signs all around the room where the panel and media can see would be a good idea. I mean person next to person perhaps the same clothes(jeans and logo t-shirt) all around the 3 walls might make an impact. Just thinking.

[Optimus J]

vigna wrote...

Totally Not Swaggacide wrote...

Is it true EA/BW are being sued by fans for the ending?

No, some lone person filed an FTC compaint though. They did that as an individual.

Complain filed for false advertising, which totally stands. He have the evidence to back it up.
It will probably move as slow as hell, but have merit in the legal meaning. So Casey and Marc could get hurt for false statements, since all the false propaganda are from THEIR statements and not the official material from the company.

[cyrrant]

wheelierdan wrote...

i disagree with the calls for formal organization and leadership. The power of this movement has nothing to do with how official it is. it has to do with the fact that so many people feel a certain way. Boiling that down to a leader is counter productive in my opinion.

And since this is a large group of people who generally agree, people are going to have opinions and want to take courses you as a person may not like, but thats how a large loosely organized thing works and you have to realize you can't control it.

If someone wants to go to pax and ask questions let them, if you're so worried about how something reflects on you as an individual then i recommend joining some sort of official card carrying groups.

You can't say, "yay im part of a mufti-thousand member group, and also say hey wait guys don't do or say anything i haven't personally approved of!"

This is just my opinion im just getting the vibe that purity tests are coming the way some are talking.

You are right, of course.  There are some who see organizing and electing leaders as a more effective way to get out their message, and I don't blame them.  They're hurt by the endings just as badly as the rest of us, and they want to get things done.  I respect that, but I agree with you, and I may have lost sight of that a few pages back.

The movement is strong because it's so diverse.  We hold the line together because we know we can make a change.  Let's get back to it, the rest of this is semantics anyway.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[ReavousX]

vigna wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

If we could do it right, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having the people who meet up have some points/questions on hand to ask that we would all like to have addressed.  

The thing there is, if the group did tag their questions/discussions with the Retake name, what happens if media takes that chance to speak with them?  I'd like to think that all involved would be incredibly professional and mature, and do us justice.  But, who knows how it would go, and who knows how we'd look coming out of there.  

When I look at the risk/reward, I think we might be better off holding the line as is, rather than pushing in any sort of "official" manner.

I think part of the problem picking an "official" spokesperson here on the web is that we don't have any real interaction with whoever it is.  If one of the Retakers at whatever pre-PAX meetup is highly intelligent, eloquent, and able to speak in a coherent fashion, then an on-the-spot nomination for official PAX spokesman wouldn't be too objectionable.  Then if media approaches a single member of the group at PAX, the (temporary!) spokesman can be ushered forward.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Again, risk/reward is brutal here.  Lots left to chance.  Something I think COULD work though, is if we drafted a statement aimed at Bioware for PAX, and let THAT be the message conveyed.  It would be a big effort that takes a great deal of time, but we could totally do that.  

Create the top points and present them concisely, in a well written format, then when the general consensus is "Hey, that's pretty good!" we can publish it on all of Retake's platforms, and the folks going to PAX can take it with them.  If they're asked anything, or ask anything, the statement should be the go to piece when it comes to Retake's stance on things when it comes to Bioware at PAX.

I've been trying to rally folks to also create a concise list of demands as well, but things get buried so fast.  That'd be figured out via Google Doc survey, I would think.

I'll consider myself swayed by your idea.  Having an official statement lets you leave it with the media without the risk of someone shooting their mouth off.  If Bioware can have official statements, so can we.  It's all the same PR game in the end.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Not trying to be a dork, but are there any other formats that could be used beyond Google doc ?

I really don't know, but it's REALLY useful for surveys.  There's been a ton of them popping up around here, and would probably be the most effecient way to keep things transparent (making results public so there's no worries of manipulation) and quick.  I'd probably fire one up that had the "check multiple boxes" option and ask that everyone only pick their top 3 or however many demands.  Then, whichever ones are on top after a certain period of time, we format into a concise (thats the bigges thing for me, make it short and powerful, none of that "too long didn't read" stuff) statement with the demands bullet pointed.  

Retake movement benefits from the key point being obvious, and that's to have the endings of ME3 addressed, but I still think statement/demands can go a long way.  There's one fellow who has a really great mission statement he worked up, and I would certainly look into incorporating it, it was definitely a good one.

[ArmyKnifeX]

Carnage752 wrote...

Alright guys. If any of you want to continue discussions with me, PM me please. We are making things tense around here. We are no longer talking about speaking at PAX or leadership on this board. Deal?

I'm going to post about PAX stuff if people ask me about it.

[shephard987]

Lexxbomb wrote...

lol what celebrities could we get as the face of this movemnt... I wonder what Seth Green's viewpoint is... how cool would it be to have "Joker" as the face of the movement

While it would be interesting to see what Seth Green's view point is, we cannot put him 
or any other voice actor under this kind of scrutiny, which will surely follow if BioWare or EA ever realizes
they made a stand like that. The aftermath for Mr. Green would be everything we stand against in this group.
Therefore, I think it should be forbidden to contact any voice actors of the franchise. They had nothing to do 
with this mess, and we shouldn't drag them in. 

We, FANS, are enough to deal with this.
That is, if BioWare and EA truly care about us. 
If not, then we don't care about BioWare or EA. 

Don't lose hope. 
Our voice is more than enough.

Hold the Line

Modifié par shephard987, 19 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[Carnage752]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Carnage752 wrote...

Alright guys. If any of you want to continue discussions with me, PM me please. We are making things tense around here. We are no longer talking about speaking at PAX or leadership on this board. Deal?

I'm going to post about PAX stuff if people ask me about it.

That is not a problem

[Vikali]

shephard987 wrote...

Lexxbomb wrote...

lol what celebrities could we get as the face of this movemnt... I wonder what Seth Green's viewpoint is... how cool would it be to have "Joker" as the face of the movement

While it would be interesting to see what Seth Green's view point is, we cannot put him 
or any other voice actor under this kind of scrutiny, which will surely follow if BioWare or EA ever realizes
they made a stand like that. The aftermath for Mr. Green would be everything we stand against in this group.
Therefore, I think it should be forbidden to contact any voice actors of the franchise. They had nothing to do 
with this mess, and we shouldn't drag them in. 

We, FANS, are enough to deal with this.
That is, if BioWare and EA truly care about us. 
If not, then we don't care about BioWare or EA. 

Don't lose hope. 
Our voice is more than enough.

Hold the Line

I agree. Not to mention a couple of the VA's have admitted they just don't have enough time to even play the games. They wouldn't be the ideal group anyway.

[Nightfire78]

The danger with trying to get a single leader is always faction building within the movement, attempts to define and organize things too strictly, disagreement with the way things are done despite agreement on the issue. Really I think it's good to have people with organizational skills setting stuff up like the donation drive, but trying to "pick" (an) official leader(s) has the potential to take focus away form what we're doing and create splinter groups, which is probably not helpful to the overall cause... but that's just my 2 cents worth.

[ReavousX]

This piece of news might have get buried in the discussions were really bumping the thread, but the Retake Mass Effect Facebook Page hit 40k likes! Jumping up from 33k from Thursday/Friday or so. That's great!

[vigna]

ReavousX wrote...

vigna wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

If we could do it right, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of having the people who meet up have some points/questions on hand to ask that we would all like to have addressed.  

The thing there is, if the group did tag their questions/discussions with the Retake name, what happens if media takes that chance to speak with them?  I'd like to think that all involved would be incredibly professional and mature, and do us justice.  But, who knows how it would go, and who knows how we'd look coming out of there.  

When I look at the risk/reward, I think we might be better off holding the line as is, rather than pushing in any sort of "official" manner.

I think part of the problem picking an "official" spokesperson here on the web is that we don't have any real interaction with whoever it is.  If one of the Retakers at whatever pre-PAX meetup is highly intelligent, eloquent, and able to speak in a coherent fashion, then an on-the-spot nomination for official PAX spokesman wouldn't be too objectionable.  Then if media approaches a single member of the group at PAX, the (temporary!) spokesman can be ushered forward.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Again, risk/reward is brutal here.  Lots left to chance.  Something I think COULD work though, is if we drafted a statement aimed at Bioware for PAX, and let THAT be the message conveyed.  It would be a big effort that takes a great deal of time, but we could totally do that.  

Create the top points and present them concisely, in a well written format, then when the general consensus is "Hey, that's pretty good!" we can publish it on all of Retake's platforms, and the folks going to PAX can take it with them.  If they're asked anything, or ask anything, the statement should be the go to piece when it comes to Retake's stance on things when it comes to Bioware at PAX.

I've been trying to rally folks to also create a concise list of demands as well, but things get buried so fast.  That'd be figured out via Google Doc survey, I would think.

I'll consider myself swayed by your idea.  Having an official statement lets you leave it with the media without the risk of someone shooting their mouth off.  If Bioware can have official statements, so can we.  It's all the same PR game in the end.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Not trying to be a dork, but are there any other formats that could be used beyond Google doc ?

I really don't know, but it's REALLY useful for surveys.  There's been a ton of them popping up around here, and would probably be the most effecient way to keep things transparent (making results public so there's no worries of manipulation) and quick.  I'd probably fire one up that had the "check multiple boxes" option and ask that everyone only pick their top 3 or however many demands.  Then, whichever ones are on top after a certain period of time, we format into a concise (thats the bigges thing for me, make it short and powerful, none of that "too long didn't read" stuff) statement with the demands bullet pointed.  

Retake movement benefits from the key point being obvious, and that's to have the endings of ME3 addressed, but I still think statement/demands can go a long way.  There's one fellow who has a really great mission statement he worked up, and I would certainly look into incorporating it, it was definitely a good one.

If we are thinking of teh same mission statement it was really good because it was  very succint and to the point. there wasn't a lot of minutia that detracted.

[Carnage752]

Nightfire78 wrote...

The danger with trying to get a single leader is always faction building within the movement, attempts to define and organize things too strictly, disagreement with the way things are done despite agreement on the issue. Really I think it's good to have people with organizational skills setting stuff up like the donation drive, but trying to "pick" (an) official leader(s) has the potential to take focus away form what we're doing and create splinter groups, which is probably not helpful to the overall cause... but that's just my 2 cents worth.

Please take these discussions to the group or elsewhere. We don't want any more debates here please.