9972 réponses à ce sujet

[daemiendrake]

Thanks for the warm welcome. It's getting late out here but I shall return after resting to man my post.
Hold the Line!
SSV Nor-Cal Signing off.

[maki0129]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...
There are plenty of other things that should be fixed for free. Face import issues, multiplayer content disappearing issues, etc.

But if they do add a decent ending, it should be free, regardless of how much it costs them. The consumer has a reasonable expectation that if they purchase the third and final game of a series, it will include the ending.

No, they shouldn't.

I do not like it anymore than you do, but a company should never sacrifice money to please their fanbase unless it is deemed completely and absolutely necessary in a capitalist system.

Now, in a couple of weeks, that may change. In a couple of weeks, the discontent with the ending could reach a point in which they should fix it for free because the losses would be unsustainable otherwise.

But we're not in that situation yet, in a capitalist market, a company should never give away high quality material, developed at a cost, for free unless they have no other option, because otherwise they risk losing money and scaling down. And scaling down typically ends in people (most of whom are probably not responsible for the screw ups of the company itself) winding up without a job.

Modifié par maki0129, 19 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[ElMuchu]

Hereafter the email I sent to Bioware: Hold the line!

Dear Mrs, Mr,
I am sending this email to share with you my point of view regarding your last product: Mass Effect 3. First of all, I am French and I am a pretty new customer of Bioware. I come to you buying Dragon Age Origins, then, the quality of this game leads me to buy Mass Effect. Here again, the quality of the story, the choices provided to the player and the gameplay were so awesome that I pre-order Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3. I even also buy Baldur’s Gate oldies series… After the deception of Dragon Age 2 (not a bad game but not as good as other previous ones – mainly due to the weaker opposition made to a less charismatic hero I think and to the reuse of areas), and thanks to Mass Effect 2, I still keep faith in your company and maintain my pre-order for Mass Effect 3. Now that I just finish it, I would like to provide you with some kind of feedbacks.
I like this game, really… until the last 15 minutes… It is even greater than Mass Effect 1 and 2 that are my two favorites games since I play video game (I started 15 years ago) Scenario is well built, there are many interactions with other characters. I also very appreciate the fact that secondary quests are very well done and consistent with the main plot (on the contrary of Dragon Age 2 for instance, there is always an interest in searching an item somewhere: in one case it is useful to save a wounded general, in another case, it helps to build a machine gun or items that are necessary for war effort).
I really appreciate the fact of seeing previous characters coming from Mass effect 1 and 2.
There are tons of awesome moments like Mordin’s and Legion sacrifice, Fight between Thane and Kei Leng… There are also funny times like Grunt coming from nowhere covered of blood after a huge fight against Rachni saying he is hungry, discussions with Garrus and the crew inside the Normandy, romance scene with Garrus (bottle shot on presidium roof). There are also great emotional times when we fight Reapers on Tuchanka and Ranoch or when we can end the war between Geth and Quarians.
I could spend hours telling you what I like in this game, anyway there is one point that I dislike and that makes me sad in a crazy way: the endings. Why have you done this to our Shepard? We have built a character that we have followed since the first game, we have spent so many time with him/her, made so many efforts to beat the Reapers… I am not satisfied by these endings. After the trailers you have made, I want to kick the Reapers out of the Galaxy and to have a happy Shepard seen as a hero by the Galaxy people. I also want the possibility to have him/her makes the highest sacrifice and to be acclaimed like a hero too.
Current endings are far too close. From my point of view, ending system of Mass Effect 2 was far away better. You could have made for instance:
- A happy end, with all Reapers dead, a victoriousliving Shepard acclaimed by the whole Galaxy followed by a wedding. We could see he/her sharing a drink with remaining Normandy’crew, thinking about all the friends they lost. “Biologic life and synthetic life can live together, let see Geth and Quarians and give us a chance”: that could have been a possible answer of Shepard at the end.
- One or two middle endings based on currently existing ones: fusion with Reapers is an interesting idea.
- A sad End with all Reapers dead but a preserved Galaxy thanks, for instance, to the crash of the complete Normandy on Hartbinger
If we wand sadness, we can just watch the news on TV, please, give us a possibility for enjoyment and hope.
Once again, except the end, you have done an amazing game with Mass Effect 3. Bioware also has done a damned fantastic job with the whole Mass Effect series. Please, hear your fans and customers and provides to this series the ends that it deserves (RetakeMassEffect3).
Best regards
One of your numerous fan

[aznsoisauce]

Kinoru wrote...

 I just saw this one when searching for news. Not sure if this has been posted already.
http://venturebeat.c...-mass-effect-3/

Edit: Just checked the article's information its dated 3/12/2012 but I didnt really notice it before. Was prolly sidetracked by the forbes articles.

Edit 2.0 Found a new article. This time I'm sure its new.

That gametrailers article is reporting on a statement made several days ago? Whoa, way to slowpoke.

Still, nice to see news continue to spread.

[Mvin]

So, what to make of this? http://i.imgur.com/6bLRG.png

Is this damage control? Has an honest soul at Bioware told us the truth and is now taking the heat from both EA and the fanbase?

Modifié par Mvin, 19 mars 2012 - 08:14 .

[RagingCeltik]

Su13perfitz wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

atghunter wrote...
Years ago, I worked for a PR damage control team and everything right now is going by the book. First, re-affirm and ignore (also known as doubling down), then try and define the detractors in the mainstream with things like "this is all a big mistunderstand", etc. while remaining civil in the hopes the detractors go rabid. Meanwhile go dark and use countermeasures through third part sources to prop up your position and brand the outcry as driven by hacks, haters or a minority trying to wear out the detractors on these outlets or "shock troops" while protecting the corporate core.

well for people goign "by the book" they havent done any of those things...

Actually if you look at most of the gaming websites they portrayed people as "entitled". First they said it was art. Then they said they wanted lots of "speculation". Then they said a vocal minority had problems. Finally we have some statements that people are polarized by the ending. All that has happened is the gaming media has gotten more and more egg on their collective faces while the fans look better and better. The few sources that got reviews correctly or tried to be unbiased are finally weighing in on the consumers' side. Even IGN did a facebook poll asking how many liked tha ending with less they 1 in 5 liking and over 3 in 5 disliking it. IGN did this to give themselves wiggle room because they are one of the places with the most egg on their face.

Entitlement refers to not having ownership of or having paid for something.   Doesn't apply.   We have a right to complain about a product we purchased.

I do believe Mass Effect is literary art.   The argument I've seeing a lot on the anti-change side is that any change Bioware makes will violate their artistic integrity.   I would argue artistic integrity does not apply to the artist so much as it does the work of art itself.   The artistic integrity of the Mass Effect story has already been violated by an ending that does not match the tone, context, and message of the rest of the work.

It would be like Andy and Red becoming comedians and starting a comedy tour in the last moments of Shawshank.

Hold the line!

[musicaleCA]

Mvin wrote...

So, what to make of this? http://i.imgur.com/6bLRG.png

Is this damage control? Has an honest soul at Bioware told us the truth and is now taking the heat from both EA and the fanbase?

More of the same. "We're listening, haven't decided anything yet."

Gods, I feel like Garrus. The platitudes are already old...and it's only been a week. O.o

[maki0129]

Mvin wrote...

So, what to make of this? http://i.imgur.com/6bLRG.png

Is this damage control? Has an honest soul at Bioware told us the truth and is now taking the heat from both EA and the fanbase?

Both.

Jessica Merizan, the woman who's most likely responsible for that post, is, in my experience, an unusually sincere and nice person.

She is sincerely sympathetic of the gamer's plights, worries and concerns, and actively tries to connect to the whole fanbase at an emotional level.

That being said, she's a part of the PR division of EA, whose main goal regarding this issue, should be to stall and delay any actual commitments or discussions on this issue until it either blows over, or until the company as a whole decides the direction to take in this highly unusual and volatile scenario.

Modifié par maki0129, 19 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[JK FALCO]

I guess this is a good a thread as any to say my 5c. I have been following the events on this forum (and all around the internet) since Mass Effect 3's release last week. I should let it be known now that I have no industry background or insightful work experience to share like some of the other posters in this thread, I am just a 28 year old gamer from New Zealand. I have been playing games since my parents Amiga 600 and I have seen my fair share of great games and my fair share of bad games over the years.

I think it should be stressed, and I would hope that both ourselves (the gamers/protestors) and Bioware do not forget this, but Mass Effect 3 is not a bad game. It is a fantastic game. Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are also fantastic games.

That is why we are protesting, not because we hate Mass Effect 3 and think it is a bad game, but because we truly love the game. Most of us are just upset by the last 10 minutes.

I hope that Bioware realise that we are this passionate because we love the franchise and are their biggest fans. We are not some angry mob looking to cause trouble. If the franchise was terrible we would not bother. It would just be another game on a large pile of games that people play for several hours and throw away. I hope that we (the gamers/protestors) also don't forget this. We don't want this to turn nasty.

I think I can speak for most people when I say that over the years Bioware have been renowned as being a great game developer. If they weremto come to the party and give their loyal fans what they so desperately want - a fitting ending to Mass Effect 3 - then I would think this would reinforce their position as a great game developer for a long time to come. I know that would be my opinion of them anyway.

But maybe I'm just ranting.

Modifié par JK FALCO, 19 mars 2012 - 08:26 .

[cApAc aMaRu]

maki0129 wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...
There are plenty of other things that should be fixed for free. Face import issues, multiplayer content disappearing issues, etc.

But if they do add a decent ending, it should be free, regardless of how much it costs them. The consumer has a reasonable expectation that if they purchase the third and final game of a series, it will include the ending.

No, they shouldn't.

I do not like it anymore than you do, but a company should never sacrifice money to please their fanbase unless it is deemed completely and absolutely necessary in a capitalist system.

Now, in a couple of weeks, that may change. In a couple of weeks, the discontent with the ending could reach a point in which they should fix it for free because the losses would be unsustainable otherwise.

But we're not in that situation yet, in a capitalist market, a company should never give away high quality material, developed at a cost, for free unless they have no other option, because otherwise they risk losing money and scaling down. And scaling down typically ends in people (most of whom are probably not responsible for the screw ups of the company itself) winding up without a job.

These are not 'artistic' problems, these are things that are broken about a product. You can't handwave a broken product by saying 'if they fix it they would have to cut staff' These are things that should have been found and fixed in testing, and never made release.

It is disgusting for you to try to guilt people into accepting less than what they deserve, excusing EA and Bioware's chronic mismanagement.

[bahamutomega]

they tried giving me a free weekend of SWTOR. i didn't even open the e-mail message - straight to garbage.

holding the line.

[Kondorr]

RagingCeltik wrote...

 I would argue artistic integrity does not apply to the artist so much as it does the work of art itself.   The artistic integrity of the Mass Effect story has already been violated by an ending that does not match the tone, context, and message of the rest of the work.

It would be like Andy and Red becoming comedians and starting a comedy tour in the last moments of Shawshank.

Hold the line!

I know, all I do lately is to agree with what other people have to say, but well... agree with the RagingCelitc!


Hold the line!
Take back Mass Effect! 

[Radwar]

bahamutomega wrote...

they tried giving me a free weekend of SWTOR. i didn't even open the e-mail message - straight to garbage.

holding the line.

That's the spirit!

Hold the line!

[arg0s5]

Remember my fellows. Your decision on Mass Effect 3's ending can be decided between three colors. Don't let your experience of the trilogy be reduced to a palette swap.

HOLD THE LINE!

[wolfeye7]

Morning from Estonia all.

Hold the line!

[Radwar]

maki0129 wrote...

Mvin wrote...

So, what to make of this? http://i.imgur.com/6bLRG.png

Is this damage control? Has an honest soul at Bioware told us the truth and is now taking the heat from both EA and the fanbase?

Both.

Jessica Merizan, the woman who's most likely responsible for that post, is, in my experience, an unusually sincere and nice person.

She is sincerely sympathetic of the gamer's plights, worries and concerns, and actively tries to connect to the whole fanbase at an emotional level.

That being said, she's a part of the PR division of EA, whose main goal regarding this issue, should be to stall and delay any actual commitments or discussions on this issue until it either blows over, or until the company as a whole decides the direction to take in this highly unusual and volatile scenario.

Yup, unusually is the right word which means I don't trust her. No matter how "nice" she is, she's still part of Bioware's PR which means she's on the other team, period.

[maki0129]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

It is disgusting for you to try to guilt people into accepting less than what they deserve, excusing EA and Bioware's chronic mismanagement.

Let me be clear about something.

I am not trying to guilt anyone into anything. But this is the way that reality works, the capitalist system is in essence broken because most companies now operate like this, in fact. This kind of behavior is prevalent in most companies that subscribe to American capitalist system and it is the reason why unemployment is so high even though CEO's keep earning billions.

As I said, I'm not a fan of the endings, and I believe in an ideal world, that content should be free as of right now and forever.

But the chances of that happening are low right now.

And the chance of that happening without someone losing their job, are basically 0.

I'd rather pay for the content, than see dozens of people being laid off because their douchebag boss didn't do their job right.

[RagingCeltik]

 We've all been so serious lately, so here's a bit of lighthearted brevity into the thread to close out the weekend.
If Lord of the Rings ended like Mass Effect 3
If Ghostbusters ended like Mass Effect 3

[msitton]

I've been popping my head in and out of this thread all week, and it just keeps getting bigger. I just wanted to say thanks to the OP for updating the front page to make it easier to catch up.

Hold the line!!

[Janus382]

Let's cross the "paid or free" DLC bridge when we come to it, as it's obviously a divisive issue... tackling it early will only weaken us and strengthen our opposition.

Right now, we've come together to call for change and response. Let's not lose sight of that. Present a united front! Hold the line!

[RagingCeltik]

maki0129 wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

It is disgusting for you to try to guilt people into accepting less than what they deserve, excusing EA and Bioware's chronic mismanagement.

Let me be clear about something.

I am not trying to guilt anyone into anything. But this is the way that reality works, the capitalist system is in essence broken because most companies now operate like this, in fact. This kind of behavior is prevalent in most companies that subscribe to American capitalist system and it is the reason why unemployment is so high even though CEO's keep earning billions.

As I said, I'm not a fan of the endings, and I believe in an ideal world, that content should be free as of right now and forever.

But the chances of that happening are low right now.

And the chance of that happening without someone losing their job, are basically 0.

I'd rather pay for the content, than see dozens of people being laid off because their douchebag boss didn't do their job right.

Well said.

All we can really do is hold the line, and wait and see what happens.   No one is going to be completely happy with the answer from Bioware, and it's going to be a compromise.  But ultimately as far as pricing the DLC goes, I don't know that we'll ever have any say in that.   Protesting for artistic changes is one thing, but making financial demands on a company is another.

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 19 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[Biotic Budah]

Well Bethesda made a fortune off of Broken Steel for Fallout 3 and the DLC that followed. I find it so very interesting that the big name game review/writer sites who say that Bioware shouldn't change the ending because of the "Terrible" precedent it would set haven't acknowledged that fact that Bethesda has already done it! They didn't care because it made the game a whole lot better.

Hold the line!

Modifié par Biotic Budah, 19 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[SkaldFish]

Mvin wrote...

So, what to make of this? http://i.imgur.com/6bLRG.png

Is this damage control? Has an honest soul at Bioware told us the truth and is now taking the heat from both EA and the fanbase?

This is a very good question.

I realize it could be just as described, but I have to admit I've seen many cases over the years of a company's employees confusing the internal (employee) message and the external (customer) message, and that's what this feels like. (Not that one message is necessarily more accurate than the other, mind you...)

I think some recent gestures are encouraging, but I do want to caution everyone that there are miles between "tell us what you'd like to see changed" and the actual entry of items into a defect tracking system and prioritization for inclusion in a patch / DLC release.

And, make no mistake, the core problems that gave us the ending as it exists today ARE DEFECTS.

[garf]

It may be a compromise but right now they are offering nothing.

No Closure
No Sense
No Relays
No Choice...

In return they shall receive No Silence.

[Lil One]

JK FALCO wrote...

I guess this is a good a thread as any to say my 5c. I have been following the events on this forum (and all around the internet) since Mass Effect 3's release last week. I should let it be known now that I have no industry background or insightful work experience to share like some of the other posters in this thread, I am just a 28 year old gamer from New Zealand. I have been playing games since my parents Amiga 600 and I have seen my fair share of great games and my fair share of bad games over the years.

I think it should be stressed, and I would hope that both ourselves (the gamers/protestors) and Bioware do not forget this, but Mass Effect 3 is not a bad game. It is a fantastic game. Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 are also fantastic games.

That is why we are protesting, not because we hate Mass Effect 3 and think it is a bad game, but because we truly love the game. Most of us are just upset by the last 10 minutes.

I hope that Bioware realise that we are this passionate because we love the franchise and are their biggest fans. We are not some angry mob looking to cause trouble. If the franchise was terrible we would not bother. It would just be another game on a large pile of games that people play for several hours and throw away. I hope that we (the gamers/protestors) also don't forget this. We don't want this to turn nasty.

I think I can speak for most people when I say that over the years Bioware have been renowned as being a great game developer. If they weremto come to the party and give their loyal fans what they so desperately want - a fitting ending to Mass Effect 3 - then I would think this would reinforce their position as a great game developer for a long time to come. I know that would be my opinion of them anyway.

But maybe I'm just ranting.

I feel the same way, as I am certain a lot of us here do.  The end hurt because we do care.