9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Daverid]

Psythorn wrote...

So just to remember what we can do:
- Not buy DLC (or any other stuff) until we got what we want
- Make ourselves heard. Keep pressure up. For example: Rate the game in the Bioware thread here - give it a good rating for all BUT the last 10 minutes, express how much you enjoyed it and how the last 10 minutes ruined it - hint that you would give a much better rating if this would be fixed
- Do the same at amazon and other websites (free speech - if you feel that way - express it)
- Keep the important polls on the first page (bookmark them, comment to them every day)
- Stay polite, emphasis on how this ruined your experience complete on an otherwise great game

And LIKE the RetakeMassEffect FB Page : 
http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3 
And Keep Tweeting things like: "Game was a 10/10 Masterpiece and then the Ending Ruined it all"
(Or if you thought it was only 9/10 or 8 or whatever just say it was brilliant or something)

[RagingCeltik]

bahamutomega wrote...

RagingCeltik wrote...

 We've all been so serious lately, so here's a bit of lighthearted brevity into the thread to close out the weekend.
If Lord of the Rings ended like Mass Effect 3
If Ghostbusters ended like Mass Effect 3

hahahahahahahahaha!!!
they need to make a part where Frodo morphs into Sauron or everyone turns into goblins.  have to have all 3 options, here, remember?

It's not about that, remember?  SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE!

[Carnage752]

Guys, like it or not we are in this for the long haul. It worries me that you thought this could be fixed in a week.

This statement just proves we need to be stronger and louder than ever! We have accomplished so much! We have barely started!

So stay strong, stay loud, and HOLD THE LINE!

[animadpig]

http://social.biowar...5&poll_id=29964

I would like to invite people to vote this one. It is a good to let Bioware/EA know how many of us are willing to return ME3 if Bioware/EA are not willing to reply our protest officially and positively. Hold the line.

[Jamie9]

Spent the last hour catching up on all these posts. Man, you guys are a frantic bunch. So many great ideas and well conveyed opinions too.

Monday is dawning and today we will have the full view of the PR department. Be ready.

Our choices should matter: Hold the Line.

[blurryhunter]

I've had far too many conflicts in my life, both military and civilian, to enter into a new one. Physically young, but feeling my mental age, I suppose.

That said, I have my own feelings on Mass Effect 3's endings and I tread a precarious neutral ground, so to speak. However, I wanted to leave something here, having read much of this. Just seemed right.

"There are many things in life you cannot do alone. There is nothing you cannot do with sheer determination."

[Elvwood]

Have to go to work Now

Hold the line

[N7Kopper]

The Indoctrination Theory gave me hope.
Turns out the Theory may have been the source of the Indoctrination. Hopefully not though, as it makes sense.
But still, the line. We must hold it.
And I should come up with something witty to say.

[SilentWolfie]

Holy whoa. To be honest, I have not seen this coming where the probable "most thoughtful" people on the Retake ME side coming out analyzing on what's going on. To be completely honest, I have not touch my ME 3 ever since I knew the ending after finishing the game in 16 hours.

I'm definitely not one of those amazing PR/thinking cap guys, but I think the worst case is Bioware/EA not making a new ending DLC/DVD, or come up with a weak alternative ending to the ME franchise.

I would think that ME franchise is vastly successful as a RPG with a pretty good story to it. The universe is big, well thought out details, and the characters are believable, although they might be some misses but that's my opinion. As far as I can remember, the final fantasy series is my favourite RPG series, then KOTOR 2 (Sorry! I find the sequel to be better and less cookie-cutter.), THEN Mass Effect.

Long story, but this is the third time I have felt that a game made me feel something again somewhat. Anything less than amazing will not be able to cut it. I will personally pay a bit more to get a better ending with a few more hours to it by additional content, or else this game will become something of an eyesore where all I remember is how Bioware screwed up ME.

Personally, calling this current ending "art" is a big affront to me because it is not even close to what I think as literature, and it needs to be redone either by sticking to traditional endings (which will make it pretty good but not sublime or advance gaming as art), or really having a better writer on team.

At the same time, this indoctrination theory that's in the forums is a ridiculously bad ending/follow up, and of horrible writing. I don't want that ending either at all, seriously disgusting. Hopefully if Bioware finally agrees to change the ending, it won't be this.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I can't believe that people need to resort to advanced military tactics just to get a somewhat decent ending to the franchise you love.

Guys, if Bioware is doing everything in it's power to avoid pleasing their fans as some of these phd's suggest, **** them. You shouldn't have to call war just to get a coherent ending. Just stop playing their games. If they detest the idea of making their story satisfactory, they can go screw themselves.

Don't buy their products. Stop fighting them, just let them lose revenue when creating DLC that no one buys.

[RagingCeltik]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I can't believe that people need to resort to advanced military tactics just to get a somewhat decent ending to the franchise you love.

Guys, if Bioware is doing everything in it's power to avoid pleasing their fans as some of these phd's suggest, **** them. You shouldn't have to call war just to get a coherent ending. Just stop playing their games. If they detest the idea of making their story satisfactory, they can go screw themselves.

Don't buy their products. Stop fighting them, just let them lose revenue when creating DLC that no one buys.

The flip side of that is that if we don't fight back, situations like this will continue to happen.   This is the whole point of feedback.  

[Lil One]

Dreaming of one day writing a book (many of us do) I have read a lot about how to write and how not to write. What they did with this ending, introducing a new character (the "child") at the very end and breaking with the established character of the protagonist (no argument, mere acceptance as truth) is a big no-no. Even in books it will outrage most readers and risk alienating them from future work.

This is partly why I even now have a hard time believing that this ending actually was approved.


Holding the line.

Modifié par Lil One, 19 mars 2012 - 12:38 .

[Malchat]

I note that there is an aspect to this controversy that’s not been discussed much  and which may give us a new vector in the PR battle: the role of the gaming media.

There is an incredible mismatch between the gaming press’ near universal approval and the fan reaction, even to the point that prominent gaming news outlets ridicule and marginalize the protests.

Now, I realize that taste is subjective and that game reviews  are notoriously lopsided in the favor of AAA publishers due to advertising dynamics but still... I would have expected gaming journalists and opinion makers to at least anticipate a strong fan reaction when they finished their early review copies.

I have gone through all the 90+ reviews listed on Metacritic and almost no one seems to pick up on the notion that the ending might be controversial.

Again, let me clarify: it do not expect the gaming press to come around to our point of view and share our outrage, not all. I’m just baffled that they didn’t even acknowledge that (some) fans might perceive the ending as flawed when they covered the launch of ME3.

Aren’t these the people who are supposed to have a finger on the pulse of the modern gaming audience?

Most gaming news outlets are still playing catch up and coming to grips with the scale of the controversy – it completely blindsided them. In many ways, the mainstream press is surpassing them in coverage appropriate to the impact of the controversy. You’d think their professional pride would start to kick in at this point.

Why is this relevant to the movement?

• In the last PR statement, Hudson points to glowing reviews, diminishing the validity of our concerns by appealing to authority.
  
  
• I expect gaming outlets to go into ‘catch-up’ mode this week, which may give us an opening to let our voice be heard outside of the BSN / Facebook / Twitter channels.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Malchat, 19 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[Vap0ur_Snake]

Good afternoon (for me, no idea what it is for everyone, I'm not EDI)

I'm just popping in to say that I'm holding the line. Need to go out soon but I'll be back later.

Our choices should matter - HOLD THE LINE!

[Gibb_Shepard]

RagingCeltik wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I can't believe that people need to resort to advanced military tactics just to get a somewhat decent ending to the franchise you love.

Guys, if Bioware is doing everything in it's power to avoid pleasing their fans as some of these phd's suggest, **** them. You shouldn't have to call war just to get a coherent ending. Just stop playing their games. If they detest the idea of making their story satisfactory, they can go screw themselves.

Don't buy their products. Stop fighting them, just let them lose revenue when creating DLC that no one buys.

The flip side of that is that if we don't fight back, situations like this will continue to happen.   This is the whole point of feedback.  

No they won't, because you won't be buying their ****. That's the point. When they see their DLC stagnating so quickly, they'll know that those people who disliked the ending were numerous and serious. They'll know that continuing to play coy until their weapon DLC releases is a retarded idea.

[Psythorn]

That is the main point... 50k votings on the big fat mother of all polls about the ending should tell them something... However they could still try to convince themselves that this is still a minority voting... The next DLC will tell them the thruth... Literally... If people resist to buy it just to have something to clinge to than they will have to realise that those polls in fact are representing a majority... If too many give in and buy it we've lost...

So hold hold the line - do not give in...

Modifié par Psythorn, 19 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Vap0ur_Snake]

Malchat wrote...

I note that there is an aspect to this controversy that’s not been discussed much  and which may give us a new vector in the PR battle: the role of the gaming media.

There is an incredible mismatch between the gaming press’ near universal approval and the fan reaction, even to the point that prominent gaming news outlets ridicule and marginalize the protests.

Now, I realize that taste is subjective and that game reviews  are notoriously lopsided in the favor of AAA publishers due to advertising dynamics but still... I would have expected gaming journalists and opinion makers to at least anticipate a strong fan reaction when they finished their early review copies.

I have gone through all the 90+ reviews listed on Metacritic and almost no one seems to pick up on the notion that the ending might be controversial.

Again, let me clarify: it do not expect the gaming press to come around to our point of view and share our outrage, not all. I’m just baffled that they didn’t even acknowledge that (some) fans might perceive the ending as flawed when they covered the launch of ME3.

Aren’t these the people who are supposed to have a finger on the pulse of the modern gaming audience?

Most gaming news outlets are still playing catch up and coming to grips with the scale of the controversy – it completely blindsided them. In many ways, the mainstream press is surpassing them in coverage appropriate to the impact of the controversy. You’d think their professional pride would start to kick in at this point. 

Why is this relevant to the movement? 

• In the last PR statement, Hudson points to glowing reviews, diminishing the validity of our concerns by appealing to authority.
  
  
• I expect gaming outlets to go into ‘catch-up’ mode this week, which may give us an opening to let our voice be heard outside of the BSN / Facebook / Twitter channels.

Thoughts?

[*]Like you said mate, they are paid to advertise the game, that's why they get early copies. If they posted what they really thought about the ending then they would affect initial sales and this probably be liable in court. That wouldn't be as likely here but in the US people get sued for the smallest things. [*]Just my two cents but that's the way I see it. 

[Gudmoore]

Okay BioWare, here's my challenge to you:

www.youtube.com/watch

Describe how you were able to pass these off as "multiple" endings. These are not.

[IndomitableHawk]

Going to post here to keep up the support;

Been most of the time posting on the Face book page for quite a while and something I have seen crop up time and time again that is used against people against the ending is that it was Dark. Dark and dank with a bitter-sweet muddledin-between for good measure and because we didn't like the darkness in it we demanded a happier ending.

I could not disagree more since when did it become a cliché to write a good ending and have everything dark and dreary. I agree there should have been one insidethe game but to those players that failed during the course of their adventures like in ME2 with the suicide mission.

I've been keeping my eyes open on everyone's view points and one of them has to be about the ending being changed. I'm not sure how to feel about this. Is it right to change; no. As a writer or someone who wants to write I would be horrified to have someone force me to change the ending because the publisher or client did not like it, it was notwhat I want to happen in my story.

However regardless of the lovely plot holes and out of sync characters the ending could be at least closed and still end (Dark/Bad/Medium/Ok/Good) to give back that level of choice which was stolen from the last fifteenth minutes of game play. (Because that has been the point of the series,your character, your choice and your mistakes. The freedom to experiment, but for me I cannot do that knowing that it would lead down the same path. An endless cycle doomed to repeat itself <seewhat I did there?>)

This would keep =/= both parties happy.Those who can ignore all the mistakes and tones of the godchild and out of character Shepard believing that TIM could have been right with their ending. But have a continuation and a proper ending for what the series should have been. Maybe even an expansion something which the gaming world is surly lacking right now, DLC is far to short and not as satisfying as a good expansion. I believe DA:A was the last expansion I have ever seen.

Because right now I feel a cliffhanger on the end of a trilogy is not the way to go; it would be like Tolkien ending the Return of the King with Frodo throwing the ring in the fire. A giant middle finger to all the fans that went along with the adventure to begin with. You would be left pondering if the ring worked, what happened to the great cast of
characters you've grown up to.

Lastly the god child was a total “deus ex machina” one that I had a fear of happening.I wish people would think it through when they do something this big. In fact the ending is very similar to that of the Night Dawn's last
book the Naked God in that the main character (Actually I'll stop there, I do recommend people reading it, great books but sadly let down by the end, but still worth it and possible does a better ending then just cut to black or a 22 second clip of someone drawing breath)

To that end I will keep supporting people on the ending situation but I do not believe in changing the ending. What done is done. I still think it can be expanded upon and give players that satisfaction they need and not another cliché ending where the hero self sacrifices herself for the good of human/alien kind. Sorry but no thanks I worked hard at a Paragon ending with Liara.

Now I'm rambling so I will finish up, I've said what I needed to say and applaud everyone who wants the proper or clear explanation that should have been there in the first place. (I'm also aware of the Indoc theory but again you don't end a trilogy like that, that type of ending is fine for the first or second part not the last)

Overall this is going to take some time, don't give into empty lies and promises. Keep together strong as a community and don't let anyone flame you and if they do remain calm and civil.

~ Hold the line ~

Modifié par IndomitableHawk, 19 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[wicked_being]

Malchat wrote...

I note that there is an aspect to this controversy that’s not been discussed much  and which may give us a new vector in the PR battle: the role of the gaming media.

There is an incredible mismatch between the gaming press’ near universal approval and the fan reaction, even to the point that prominent gaming news outlets ridicule and marginalize the protests.

Now, I realize that taste is subjective and that game reviews  are notoriously lopsided in the favor of AAA publishers due to advertising dynamics but still... I would have expected gaming journalists and opinion makers to at least anticipate a strong fan reaction when they finished their early review copies.

I have gone through all the 90+ reviews listed on Metacritic and almost no one seems to pick up on the notion that the ending might be controversial.

Again, let me clarify: it do not expect the gaming press to come around to our point of view and share our outrage, not all. I’m just baffled that they didn’t even acknowledge that (some) fans might perceive the ending as flawed when they covered the launch of ME3.

Aren’t these the people who are supposed to have a finger on the pulse of the modern gaming audience?

David Jaffe hits the nail right on the head. 7:40- 8:20

Modifié par wicked_being, 19 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[Ryuuken117]

I still don't get what you guys expect by "taking ME3 back."

It was obviously written and designed by people who don't care about you. They lied to you in the lead-up to release. They introduced gameplay modes that had no place in a space opera RPG because their publisher demanded it. They focused their marketing campaign not on us, but on some nebulous "gamer" who couldn't be bothered to play through the first couple games. They wrote an ending that contradicted the last two games and insulted common sense. They ended the series that has lasted half a decade with the words "DLC." They ridiculed you when you said you were upset and called you entitled when you complained.

You have to consider the possibility that Bioware does not like you, never wanted you; in all probability they hate you. It's not the worst thing that could happen. You could do better.

[Sainta117]

Anyone else think it's time Bioware moved from "listening" to "acknowledging?"

[cyrrant]

Hello BSN, after not enough sleep I'm here for a moment and off to work.  Just want to say:

HOLD THE LINE

Today is important.  Gaming media will be checking out what happened over the weekend.  The little blurbs in the mainstream media have caught some interest as well, so they may be checking back in.  Now is the time to let our voices be heard.  Today we redouble our efforts, here on the BSN, on facebook, and twitter, and anywhere else that will let us get our message across.  Send this message to Bioware: We are not placated, and we want these endings fixed!  We are Retake Mass Effect, and we're not going anywhere!

Off to work now, I'm here in spirit, though.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[TurambarEA]

wicked_being wrote...

Malchat wrote...

I note that there is an aspect to this controversy that’s not been discussed much  and which may give us a new vector in the PR battle: the role of the gaming media.

There is an incredible mismatch between the gaming press’ near universal approval and the fan reaction, even to the point that prominent gaming news outlets ridicule and marginalize the protests.

Now, I realize that taste is subjective and that game reviews  are notoriously lopsided in the favor of AAA publishers due to advertising dynamics but still... I would have expected gaming journalists and opinion makers to at least anticipate a strong fan reaction when they finished their early review copies.

I have gone through all the 90+ reviews listed on Metacritic and almost no one seems to pick up on the notion that the ending might be controversial.

Again, let me clarify: it do not expect the gaming press to come around to our point of view and share our outrage, not all. I’m just baffled that they didn’t even acknowledge that (some) fans might perceive the ending as flawed when they covered the launch of ME3.

Aren’t these the people who are supposed to have a finger on the pulse of the modern gaming audience?

David Jaffe hits the nail right on the head. 7:40- 8:20

@ Malchat - yes, I've noted that with growing scepticism. Also the ones who are coming down on our side or writing fact-only articles, are those who aren't receiving the advertising cash - Forbes, independent sites, YouTubers, etc.

There's not great alternatives to what we're seeing there - either our 'gaming press' is horrendously out of touch with us and with what makes a great game OR they're cooking the books either consciously or sub-consciously because advertising pays the bills. At any rate, I know I will take anything resembling an opinion (editorials, reviews, all that jazz) from those 'game media' sites with a grain of salt from this point forward. It's awfully hard to recover from that kind of perceived loss of integrity imo.

@ wickedbeing - that's a great video, thanks for posting that.

Modifié par TurambarEA, 19 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[AmstradHero]

wicked_being wrote...

David Jaffe nails it right on the head. 7:40- 8:20

Bah, read reviews from reviewers you trust. Don't mindlessly believe everything you read. I take game reviews with a healthy dose of salt. Read several and look at the points they raise. In most cases, don't go for this "reviewers are paid to give high scores" conspiracy theory.

Malchat wrote...
I have gone through all the 90+ reviews listed on Metacritic and almost no one seems to pick up on the notion
that the ending might be controversial.

Aren’t these the people who are supposed to have a finger on the pulse of the modern gaming audience?

Nope. Not at all. Many sites have rated games very highly that I thought were absolute trash (Modern Warfare 2 - I played it for 7 hours and never again), and many have utterly panned games that I thought were far superior (Alpha Protocol - marred by some technical issues, but a phenonmenal game). Reviewers have their own tastes and biases, and you need to take that into consideration. There are some reviewers who say things that I couldn't disagree with more, and there are others whose opinion I trust. Reviewers are people too, not a paragon of objectivity and critical analysis devoid of emotion or preference. They're not robots.

In addition, many reviewers don't have a solid understanding of game design issues, but are simply gamers/journalists who were in the right place at the right time and had a particular way with words that an editor liked. Also, I'm going to go out here and say that it's also possible that not all reviewers may have finished the game before their articles were published. Or they wanted to steer clear of potential spoilers. That said, I did read a couple of articles that gushed about the game, but did mention in passing "the ending that will cause a lot of discussion."

Me, I just want to see a proper ending to the game. I likely suspected Shepard having to make a great sacrifice and/or potentially die, but like almost everyone else, I expected closure. I expected my choices to mean something. I expected war assets to mean something. I expected to find out what happened to all the people I had travelled with. I expected not to have gaping holes in the final scenes like Joker committing a grave dereliction of duty and my love interest (who was with me on Earth) to be with Joker to crash land on some mysterious jungle planet.  I expected not to be given a terrible, potentially hoodwink of an ending as the conclusion to what was otherwise a fantastic series.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 19 mars 2012 - 01:05 .