Bioware, I would like to get better, non-crappy endingS for ME3 (and the whole ME series).
Maybe it's time to your official statement not "mistake within our internal communications"?
Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line
EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*
Débuté par
Bachuck
, mars 16 2012 10:44
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#4827
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:04
MinatheBrat
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Bachuck- thank you for updating your post and keeping us all in the loop. I appreciate the time and the effort!
#4828
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:05
Psythorn
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Sainta117 wrote...
Anyone else think it's time Bioware moved from "listening" to "acknowledging?"
I once had a training as consultant. One thing that I remember is:
Once all basic needs are covered (eating, housing, ...) Humans are motivated by two things only:
- FUN
- PAIN
What does this tell us ?
FUN: To EA/Bioware it's fun if they get good reviews, sell their DLC, sell their GAME.
PAIN: Bad Reviews, DLC does not sell, GAME sales drop.
So again - IF you really want new endings:
- Give bad ratings,feedback, in threads, polls etc. and make sure that it's clear WHY you do so (and if you enjoyed the game up to that point, state that also)
- resist in buying DLC
- resist in buying the game if you did not yet
- make clear that you WOULD give better reviews, spend money if they did as you are asking
- spread the word
- try to get professional reviewers on your side (same mechanism - you need to generate FUN/PAIN)
Modifié par Psythorn, 19 mars 2012 - 01:06 .
#4829
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:05
CJMissen
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- 167 messages
I'm along with in all this. anybody else getting very insulted by being marginalised? certainly the feel of it.
Who here would praise Bioware, for actually coming out and being up front about things rather than these orchestrated and designed responses that give us neither, here, there, or even the time of day?
185th New Melbourne Marines
Holding the Line, steady, strong and for the long haul.
We Dare to Stick Around
Who here would praise Bioware, for actually coming out and being up front about things rather than these orchestrated and designed responses that give us neither, here, there, or even the time of day?
185th New Melbourne Marines
Holding the Line, steady, strong and for the long haul.
We Dare to Stick Around
#4830
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:08
Xellith
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The end should reflect your choices. Instead we got the shaft.
#4831
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:14
wicked_being
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AmstradHero wrote...
Bah, read reviews from reviewers you trust. Don't mindlessly believe everything you read. I take game reviews with a healthy dose of salt. Read several and look at the points they raise. In most cases, don't go for this "reviewers are paid to give high scores" conspiracy theory.wicked_being wrote...
David Jaffe nails it right on the head. 7:40- 8:20
Nah I don't read reviews anymore. Instead I go and watch a livestream of someone playing a game I plan to buy. At least I know the streamer would most likely give me an honest "gamer to gamer" reply. I only do pre-orders when I trust the developer. I pre-ordered DA2. I pre-ordered ME3. Look where I am now...holding the line.
#4832
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:14
DoctorCrowtgamer
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Wow it seems like a lot happened while I was asleep. People please stay with this for the long haul and don't believe anything Bioware says even if they say nothing is coming stick with it. From what I can tell they are starting to panic I think they were hoping this thing would blow over this weekend. We are not going to know anything yet. Look I think they know if this is still going on at the end of the quarter they are trouble so they are going to try every trick they have to shut us down before then. Don't let them get away with it. Boycott everything EA or bioware made until new ednings DLC is released and they make it so we don't need to play multiplayer to get singleplayer endings.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
#4833
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:17
Xellith
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Bioware is in trouble. They will fix this or they will wither and die. Those are the only two options. Ive already stopped a fair number of people picking up ME3. Im holding the line and im not gonna quit until I get my happy ending I worked for and none of this nonsensical bittersweet bullcrap.
#4834
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:19
cApAc aMaRu
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- 409 messages
wicked_being wrote...
AmstradHero wrote...
Bah, read reviews from reviewers you trust. Don't mindlessly believe everything you read. I take game reviews with a healthy dose of salt. Read several and look at the points they raise. In most cases, don't go for this "reviewers are paid to give high scores" conspiracy theory.wicked_being wrote...
David Jaffe nails it right on the head. 7:40- 8:20
Nah I don't read reviews anymore. Instead I go and watch a livestream of someone playing a game I plan to buy. At least I know the streamer would most likely give me an honest "gamer to gamer" reply. I only do pre-orders when I trust the developer. I pre-ordered DA2. I pre-ordered ME3. Look where I am now...holding the line.
My stack of Bioware Collectors Editions, Mass Effect comics and books, and diecast normandy models sit there collecting dust while I wait for a patch so I can play Mass Effect 3 with my Shepards face, and experience the worst endings in gaming history from what I've heard. Brilliant. Worth $130US? (Australia sucks...) No.
Hold the line.
#4835
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:19
Cyruge
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as long as this thread is kept alive, along with other ones such as the one about the ending with almost 2000 pages and the one about indoctrination (almost 1000 IIRC), the matter won't just disappear.
#4836
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:20
NekoPanOnline
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Garus: i learned from you shep, scream loud enough and sombody will listen
(i think i got that quote wrong xd)
(i think i got that quote wrong xd)
#4837
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:24
DoctorCrowtgamer
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Xellith wrote...
Bioware is in trouble. They will fix this or they will wither and die. Those are the only two options. Ive already stopped a fair number of people picking up ME3. Im holding the line and im not gonna quit until I get my happy ending I worked for and none of this nonsensical bittersweet bullcrap.
Yeah well said!
Look this is not just about ME3 any more if we win this I am pretty sure every video game company will want to avoid this type of PR nightmare and I am sure they will make sure in future that when they talk about or do adds for a game those interview and adds will tell the truth. We are fighting for every gamer out there and if we stick together we will win.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
#4838
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:26
MDT1
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I don't get it why people insist we have a bittersweet ending?
What is sweet in galactic mass genocide?
What is sweet in galactic mass genocide?
#4839
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:27
zarnk567
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Bioware better give an actual response soon instead of this PR crap
#4840
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:28
Fulgrim88
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While a lot of what we've seen so far hints in that very direction, me and a lot of people around here don't want that to be true.Ryuuken117 wrote...
I still don't get what you guys expect by "taking ME3 back."
It was obviously written and designed by people who don't care about you. They lied to you in the lead-up to release. They introduced gameplay modes that had no place in a space opera RPG because their publisher demanded it. They focused their marketing campaign not on us, but on some nebulous "gamer" who couldn't be bothered to play through the first couple games. They wrote an ending that contradicted the last two games and insulted common sense. They ended the series that has lasted half a decade with the words "DLC." They ridiculed you when you said you were upset and called you entitled when you complained.
You have to consider the possibility that Bioware does not like you, never wanted you; in all probability they hate you. It's not the worst thing that could happen. You could do better.
We know a different Bioware. Even EA would have a hard time twisting that so bad, so fast
Modifié par Fulgrim88, 19 mars 2012 - 01:31 .
#4841
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:32
DrDark101
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I posted this in another thread (or some of it) but its worth repeating.
Anyone with a bit of common sense and two working eyes can see that the ending simply doesn't make sense and worst of all does not keep with the traditions established before it. Choice is suspended, the concept of good vs evil is negated and a narrative concept that up till that point was not even a thought (or even hinted at idea) is thrust into our faces that turns everything we understand as Mass Effect on its head. Likewise Shepard, a character that throughout the series has questioned everything, stood in staunch opposition to the "evil" that has come and exuded a sense of resolve and strength that inspires all around him/her quietly melts without reason and simply accepts the "Star Child" at face value. Think about that. This being if it is to be believed is the creator of the Reapers and the meat factory the Citadel has become is its home. This thing is the anti-Christ for lack of a better term, pure evil and Shepards true enemy yet he/she simply accepts its flawed logic and does what it says like a obedient servant? No, that simply will not do. A bad ending can ruin an overall experience no matter how good that experience leading up to it was. It makes things like retrospective and nostalgia moot points if the knowledge that in the final moments of a saga all your efforts are ultimately for naught. How can I look back at Mass Effect 1 and see it in the same light again, how can I justify the friendships I nurtured in Mass Effect 2 knowing what I know now? How can I see all the scenes of self sacrifice, valor, bravery, and despair depicted throughout the course of Mass Effect 3 as anything less than inconsequential diversions and in some cases blatant misdirection?
Mass Effect 3's ending represents the disconnect that occurs when artistic vision takes precedence over consumer expectations. Granted the "games are art" debate can't be avoided and I agree that games are art to an extent, BUT all games ultimate function is that of consumer products, and that is a truth that simply cannot be debated or avoided. Artistic vision is important obviously it is the driving force that leads to the fantastic worlds we enjoy exploring in games, but as games are both art and a consumer product art cannot nor should not ever trump consumer expectations simply for art’s sake. As an artist I can look at my work and be content with what it says to me because ultimately it is my expression and only needs to please me. A game maker on the other hand must be willing to look at their concept and say this might work for me but will it work for the masses? If there is any doubt then they must sometimes be willing to comprise there vision in favor of the greater consumer good. Granted there is no way to please everyone, but comments out of Bioware seem to indicate that they knew the ending would be "polarizing" which is a nice way of saying they knew it would anger and upset people. Why do that? Why make an ending that on the face of it seems to have been intentionally designed to inflame a loyal and (as they have very quickly found out) passionate fan base? For art’s sake? I say that any game is ultimately a collaboration between its creators and the consumer and works on a system of trust. The consumer entrusts the developer to do right by them by knowing what the consumer expects and the developer in turn trusts the consumer to buy their product and continue to support there company. In the case of Mass Effect this symbiosis HAD been the case. The fans have supported the series in a huge way over the years and Bioware HAD been doing the series much justice. Why in the 11th hour at the pinnacle of what should have been a great albeit somber moment for the series Bioware decided to do what they did and allow art to override expectations is simply baffling to me.
I understand that from a business perspective Mass Effect 3 had to be a game that long time fans and new fans alike could play and get a satisfactory conclusion, but let’s be honest the vast majority of the people who bought Mass Effect 3 bought it because they have been fans of the series for a long time. They have played the previous games multiple times to create many potential outcomes. They expected a payoff that rewarded their choices and play style, it simply doesn't happen. It doesn't even matter if the ending is happy or sad or something of a mystery. Heck some fans would be content with a still image of Shepard with a bunch of blue kids running around him, but the problem is far deeper then that. What Bioware did was essentially have the series commit narrative suicide; they killed it without any good explanation. People just wanted the end to make sense, it doesn't and now we are left hanging with no universe or system in place to even get an answerer later. The ultimate kicker is Bioware then advertiser’s DLC afterward as if to say never mind that we unraveled the Mass Effect universe, never mind that we contradicted darn near everything, ignore the fact that it all comes to a unsatisfactory plop in the end, these new DLC packs will be ace! If reports are true then (as of now) all the DLC takes place pre-ending. Knowing what we know happens will such DLC even matter or bear any appreciable weight? Shepard could do the most heroically awesome thing in the history of history in one these DLC packs but oh well, it doesn't matter in the end. Why would I pay for that? I personally have no desire to revisit the game for the very same reason I can't stomach looking at Mass Effect 1 and 2 again. I literally picked up the cases the other day, looked at them and shook my head. The artwork hanging on my walls that I bought of the Normandy, Tali, Legion, Miranda and Korlus remind me of what was instead of what is and that’s just a sad thing.
Anyone with a bit of common sense and two working eyes can see that the ending simply doesn't make sense and worst of all does not keep with the traditions established before it. Choice is suspended, the concept of good vs evil is negated and a narrative concept that up till that point was not even a thought (or even hinted at idea) is thrust into our faces that turns everything we understand as Mass Effect on its head. Likewise Shepard, a character that throughout the series has questioned everything, stood in staunch opposition to the "evil" that has come and exuded a sense of resolve and strength that inspires all around him/her quietly melts without reason and simply accepts the "Star Child" at face value. Think about that. This being if it is to be believed is the creator of the Reapers and the meat factory the Citadel has become is its home. This thing is the anti-Christ for lack of a better term, pure evil and Shepards true enemy yet he/she simply accepts its flawed logic and does what it says like a obedient servant? No, that simply will not do. A bad ending can ruin an overall experience no matter how good that experience leading up to it was. It makes things like retrospective and nostalgia moot points if the knowledge that in the final moments of a saga all your efforts are ultimately for naught. How can I look back at Mass Effect 1 and see it in the same light again, how can I justify the friendships I nurtured in Mass Effect 2 knowing what I know now? How can I see all the scenes of self sacrifice, valor, bravery, and despair depicted throughout the course of Mass Effect 3 as anything less than inconsequential diversions and in some cases blatant misdirection?
Mass Effect 3's ending represents the disconnect that occurs when artistic vision takes precedence over consumer expectations. Granted the "games are art" debate can't be avoided and I agree that games are art to an extent, BUT all games ultimate function is that of consumer products, and that is a truth that simply cannot be debated or avoided. Artistic vision is important obviously it is the driving force that leads to the fantastic worlds we enjoy exploring in games, but as games are both art and a consumer product art cannot nor should not ever trump consumer expectations simply for art’s sake. As an artist I can look at my work and be content with what it says to me because ultimately it is my expression and only needs to please me. A game maker on the other hand must be willing to look at their concept and say this might work for me but will it work for the masses? If there is any doubt then they must sometimes be willing to comprise there vision in favor of the greater consumer good. Granted there is no way to please everyone, but comments out of Bioware seem to indicate that they knew the ending would be "polarizing" which is a nice way of saying they knew it would anger and upset people. Why do that? Why make an ending that on the face of it seems to have been intentionally designed to inflame a loyal and (as they have very quickly found out) passionate fan base? For art’s sake? I say that any game is ultimately a collaboration between its creators and the consumer and works on a system of trust. The consumer entrusts the developer to do right by them by knowing what the consumer expects and the developer in turn trusts the consumer to buy their product and continue to support there company. In the case of Mass Effect this symbiosis HAD been the case. The fans have supported the series in a huge way over the years and Bioware HAD been doing the series much justice. Why in the 11th hour at the pinnacle of what should have been a great albeit somber moment for the series Bioware decided to do what they did and allow art to override expectations is simply baffling to me.
I understand that from a business perspective Mass Effect 3 had to be a game that long time fans and new fans alike could play and get a satisfactory conclusion, but let’s be honest the vast majority of the people who bought Mass Effect 3 bought it because they have been fans of the series for a long time. They have played the previous games multiple times to create many potential outcomes. They expected a payoff that rewarded their choices and play style, it simply doesn't happen. It doesn't even matter if the ending is happy or sad or something of a mystery. Heck some fans would be content with a still image of Shepard with a bunch of blue kids running around him, but the problem is far deeper then that. What Bioware did was essentially have the series commit narrative suicide; they killed it without any good explanation. People just wanted the end to make sense, it doesn't and now we are left hanging with no universe or system in place to even get an answerer later. The ultimate kicker is Bioware then advertiser’s DLC afterward as if to say never mind that we unraveled the Mass Effect universe, never mind that we contradicted darn near everything, ignore the fact that it all comes to a unsatisfactory plop in the end, these new DLC packs will be ace! If reports are true then (as of now) all the DLC takes place pre-ending. Knowing what we know happens will such DLC even matter or bear any appreciable weight? Shepard could do the most heroically awesome thing in the history of history in one these DLC packs but oh well, it doesn't matter in the end. Why would I pay for that? I personally have no desire to revisit the game for the very same reason I can't stomach looking at Mass Effect 1 and 2 again. I literally picked up the cases the other day, looked at them and shook my head. The artwork hanging on my walls that I bought of the Normandy, Tali, Legion, Miranda and Korlus remind me of what was instead of what is and that’s just a sad thing.
Modifié par DrDark101, 19 mars 2012 - 11:06 .
#4842
Guest_Paulomedi_*
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:33
Guest_Paulomedi_*
Guest_Paulomedi_*
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- Guests
Paulomedi wrote...
fastjetjockey wrote...
Paulomedi wrote...
This game was about good story and immersion. All it reminds me now is about how a nonsensical deadline can destroy five years of hard work. Real life lesson. Thank you Bioware / EA!
Blizzard, while apples to oranges, have got this **** down. Release a game in their own goddamn time, and it shows.
I wouldn't mind playing mass effect 2 for another year or so. I would still buy Mass Effect 3, and I am sure that the game overall would be better. Not just the ending, but the whole story as well.
Now that the ending made the game fall flat on its face, we start to see all the bad writing that lurks around the third installment.
Again, I must say:
1-Where is the Dark Energy?
2-Where is the big metaplot from the first two games i.e. the Reapers were delayed in this cycle by the Prothean Mass Relay on the Citadel, so they had to change the plans.
3- The reason why they are so interested in humans in the second game. Answer: Human-Reaper could stop the Dark Energy!
4- Where is the big suicide mission on Earth?
5- Why use the Crucible, a Deus Ex Machina?
All in all, it appears that they had a change on the writing due to a script leak, and half-assed the story. To make things worse, all the good parts of Mass Effect 3 were about the relationship that you built from the first two games, so we are not really playing Mass Effect 3, but Mass Effect: Closure. To prove this, the biggest plot of the third installment is about the Cruicible, the weakest part in the Mass Effect lore.
Mass Effect 3 would be about the war, yes, but finding out the ultimate reason why the reapers exist, and discovering all this amidst the war. Not in 10 minutes of rainbow disaster.
I am very disappointed how can a serious company doing a serious business can make such disastrous choices.
#4843
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:33
DoctorCrowtgamer
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I want what I paid for and if I don't get that Bioware doesn't get any more of my money. Look this was always going tot takes a few months. Thank you for sticking with it until the end.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
#4844
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:43
Michotic
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http://www.computera...ding-statement/
Apologies if this has been posted (lot of thread to sift through). I'm still leery about what may happen, but I appreciate being acknowledged.
Our choices should matter. Hold the line.
Apologies if this has been posted (lot of thread to sift through). I'm still leery about what may happen, but I appreciate being acknowledged.
Our choices should matter. Hold the line.
#4845
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:45
Psythorn
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- 84 messages
Even if I take into account that usually for 1 people complaining there are 10 that do not complain (rule of thumb) that still tells me that there are way to much people that do not like it. I still do not see how someone can think that the ending is a success if alienating more than 50% of their fanbase.
http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989
So even if I take the 2% ten times it's still 12,520 vs 54,616 people that do not like it.
So if I would be somewhere in Bioware I would be alerted.
The only thing this doesn't tell me is how mad those 54k people are and what they are willing to do... But time will tell that...
The only bad thing is that that mother of all polls started somewhat "naive" (brighter ending). Because of so many votes the author decided to not change the questions at it would reset the poll. However if you read the first posting it clearly states that this is about much more than just a "brighter" ending...
http://social.biowar...606/polls/28989
Endings suck, we want a brighter one.
91%(54616 votes)
Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard.
6%(3742 votes)
Fine as it is.
2%(1252 votes)
So even if I take the 2% ten times it's still 12,520 vs 54,616 people that do not like it.
So if I would be somewhere in Bioware I would be alerted.
The only thing this doesn't tell me is how mad those 54k people are and what they are willing to do... But time will tell that...
The only bad thing is that that mother of all polls started somewhat "naive" (brighter ending). Because of so many votes the author decided to not change the questions at it would reset the poll. However if you read the first posting it clearly states that this is about much more than just a "brighter" ending...
Modifié par Psythorn, 19 mars 2012 - 01:48 .
#4846
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:49
Zhijn
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Atghunter, whats your thought on the latest FB/Tweet comment mistake, and the quick reply afterwards "we still listen ect"?.
#4847
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:51
Syrellaris
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Zhijn wrote...
Atghunter, whats your thought on the latest FB/Tweet comment mistake, and the quick reply afterwards "we still listen ect"?.
Not everything is a PR related thing...
#4848
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:55
Michotic
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Syrellaris wrote...
Zhijn wrote...
Atghunter, whats your thought on the latest FB/Tweet comment mistake, and the quick reply afterwards "we still listen ect"?.
Not everything is a PR related thing...
That's true, but atg has proven to be astute and have a level head. While I can't imagine the time he is investing in this thread alone, I (and no doubt most others) greatly appreciate it.
Our choices should matter. Hold the line.
#4849
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:58
DoctorCrowtgamer
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Michotic wrote...
http://www.computera...ding-statement/
Apologies if this has been posted (lot of thread to sift through). I'm still leery about what may happen, but I appreciate being acknowledged.
Our choices should matter. Hold the line.
They lied before and they are still lying about not needing multiplayer to get single player endings so please don't believe them until new endings DLC is released. Don't touch anything made by EA or Bioware until we get that and a patch that doesn't require multiplayer to get. Bioware is in panic mode that means we are winning and the only thing that can stop us is ourselves. Thank you for sticking together for as long as it takes people.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
#4850
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:00
Michotic
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DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
They lied before and they are still lying about not needing multiplayer to get single player endings so please don't believe them until new endings DLC is released. Don't touch anything made by EA or Bioware until we get that and a patch that doesn't require multiplayer to get. Bioware is in panic mode that means we are winning and the only thing that can stop us is ourselves. Thank you for sticking together for as long as it takes people.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
I agree. I am not budging from my position until I see full committment from BioWare/EA's side. I do think we should read and do our best to understand anything BioWare is saying. We need to be reasonable and civil. That doesn't mean we have to take it at face value.
Our choices should matter. Hold the line.
