9972 réponses à ce sujet

[PaulusAugustus]

Lena Grozi wrote...

 ... But after the initial anger is gone for me, resolve stays, and it stays strong.
So good work, everyone, and stay strong.
Hold the line!

Yes I feel the same - completely disheartened by the ME3 ending, had wanted to go back and replay from the beginning of ME1, new character, new choices, new romance and see how it effects the game but now I see no point in doing that. From what I can tell, the ONLY thing that effected the ending of ME3 is whether or not you destroyed the collector base.

You may as well not completed any side quests in any of the previous games as they bring nothing to ME3's end game, besides a few meagre assets that you can make up for with multiplayer if you choose to. You killed Wrex and the Salarians died at Virmire? You let the council die? Nearly everybody died in the Collector Base assault? You blew Ashley/Kaidan's brains out on the Citadel? You backstabbed the Krogan? Liberated either the Quarians or Geth and destroyed the other?  Doesn't really matter so why go back and make those choices now?

After all the liberal talk in the pre-release stages of choices throughout the series making the ending matter, providing that linear ending without any real choice is what has us feeling let down or outright upset/angry by the endings and I think the media should acknowledge that instead of painting the disgruntled fans as crying over their lack of gumdrops, rainbows, fluffy kittens and gingerbread houses.

I've reached an acceptance stage now where I'm over the ending to not let it affect me anymore but after being a fan of Bioware ever since picking up the original Baldur's Gate 5-CD Big Box back in the day, this ending has seriously compromised my confidence and trust in their storytelling and narrative.

PaulusAugustus - Holding the Line.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

MeldarthX wrote...

http://www.examiner....ans-and-bioware

I know its been talked about a bit; but Atghunter's thoughts on this would be very incredible.

People that are starting to loose heart; don't. BW/EA are scared - and every right to be. What happened there was possibly one of the worst blunders they could of done along with one of the best things for us.

Some people were starting to get dishearted by the double talk; lack of talk - That's exactly why they are doing it. Problem is - they just renewed resolve for most - and gave inshot for many; many more.

We're growing - we will continue to grow. We are making history here - Like our Shepards - Gamers of all ages - from all over the world - are uniting as one. Not out of hate - but out of Love for these games.....and what BW was - the goto RPG company.

I don't mind them wanting to expand their sales - but its your loyal fans that been with you from the beginning that keep you alive as a company. Please remember that.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Well said.  Stick together and we will win just don't give up because it will take a while for this to sink in but if we stay together there is no way we will lose.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[wepeel_]

Like DoctorCrowtgamer says, this is going to take time. Expect them to say nothing for a long time. Expect them to, when they make statements, not make them in line with what we are hoping to hear. Expect DLC-announcements to be multiplayer only without mention of the endings.

Throughout all this, we must persevere. Be civil and polite, but never take what BioWare offers you unless it is exactly what we have been asking for. Unless they are really, really prepared to make it right.

[marshkoala]

@Lena Grozi
There is the PAX East Platoon group that you can join they are organzing an event in Boston.

[rianna]

Salyut wrote...

Wait, there's a statement coming Wednesday? Is there some official source for this or is it just a rumour?

Off topic, but enjoy Persona 3! It's a wonderful game. I'm thinking about replaying my Persona 3 psp port one of days myself. Or maybe the P2 IS port. Haven't decided yet.

Probably a rumor. I just stumbled over "something-something  statement on Wednesday" while I was desperately trying to catch up, can't even remember which thread. Being out sick for the weekend is not good for holding the line!

[Promchek]

MeldarthX wrote...

http://www.examiner....ans-and-bioware

I know its been talked about a bit; but Atghunter's thoughts on this would be very incredible.

People that are starting to loose heart; don't. BW/EA are scared - and every right to be. What happened there was possibly one of the worst blunders they could of done along with one of the best things for us.

Some people were starting to get dishearted by the double talk; lack of talk - That's exactly why they are doing it. Problem is - they just renewed resolve for most - and gave inshot for many; many more.

We're growing - we will continue to grow. We are making history here - Like our Shepards - Gamers of all ages - from all over the world - are uniting as one. Not out of hate - but out of Love for these games.....and what BW was - the goto RPG company.

I don't mind them wanting to expand their sales - but its your loyal fans that been with you from the beginning that keep you alive as a company. Please remember that.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

hear, hear !!

[Tirranek]

Jamie9 wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

I think there's a lot of selective acknowledgment and ignoring going on, on both 'sides'. And as much as I might agree that the endings are for the most part unsatisfying and feel imcomplete, I can't get behind a 'movement' like this.

I do hope we don't give that impression. I definitely have acknowledged some people will, and do, enjoy the ending. Polls and such though have proved that the majority do not. If a DLC ending is created, people who like the previous ending can keep it, people who want their choices to matter can have that too. It's a win-win.

If you have any questions concerning the movement, are on either side of the fence and just want to question my viewpoint, feel free.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not against voicing objection towards the endings, and if content is released that provides a further epilogue ala DA: Awakening, I'm down with that. I also appreciate that some people are genuinely willing to be civil and discuss things, both with Bioware and the rest of the fan community.

Unfortunately the rhetoric behind so much of this is embarressing, at least to me. Terms like; The Movement, holding the line and posts that read like someone is trying to write Sun Tzu's: The Art of Sticking it to Bioware just kill any interest I have in supporting it.

I do have some individual questions, if you want to answer:

What did you specifically dislike about the ending? For me it was that the final moments were presented by a character's likeness I had no attachment to. The child was un-necessary appeal to emotion that ended up dictating your Shepard's perspective on things; very un-Mass Effect. For me, having dead characters appear in the deams, and your LI or other significant character be the avatar of this moment would have had a great deal more resonance, and it would be an experience that related to your character specifically. I also think there are just basic continuity problems with Joker on the Normandy.

Is it a remake, or an extension of the ending that is being requested by the majority fans? For me, an epilogue from Hackett, stories about the first steps in rebuilding, or insights into the squadmates would be enough for me.

How many of these highlighted plotholes are actually genuinely that, as opposed to questions that fans are simply disinclined to discuss? I see mention of exploding relays = Arrival explosion, mass starvation, isolation, no hope of rebuilding etc. These are used as weight behind the argument for change, but I personally think most of these examples don't hold up under scrutiny. There is very little discussion going on about them though, because those who want to express their dislike of the endings, seem invested in making the outcome of the game seem as grim as possible.

If this change were to be achieved, what do you expect the attitude of those involved to be? I'd like to think that if a positive change is affected, it will be seen as an example of fan/devloper collaboration. As it is, though, from what I've read I'm half-expecting banners to appear, saying:  'We fought the enemy. We Endured. We made a difference.' That kind of stuff is just to me.


Anyway, thanks for responding, Jamie9.

[Razorsteel]

BW/EA will attempt to wear us down. We must be strong in our resolve. They will send agents of discord(disguised as fans) to disrupt and disillusion us.

Our Choices Should Matter- Hold The Line

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

wepeel_ wrote...

Like DoctorCrowtgamer says, this is going to take time. Expect them to say nothing for a long time. Expect them to, when they make statements, not make them in line with what we are hoping to hear. Expect DLC-announcements to be multiplayer only without mention of the endings.

Throughout all this, we must persevere. Be civil and polite, but never take what BioWare offers you unless it is exactly what we have been asking for. Unless they are really, really prepared to make it right.

Well said.  they are going to have to see that their sales,stock,and reputation going down for a month or so before they will know for a fact that they have to change anything.  In the mean time they will do everything they can do to trick us into buying stuff and they will try to break up the movement by attacking us in the press and maybe even sending plants here to start fights.  Stick together and don't give in and there is no way we can lose.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Vap0ur_Snake]

 Quick question (and sorry for going off topic)

How do you ad the fleet banner to your profile? I can't find a signature option anywhere. And also what code do I need to use, txt ?

[Wowlock]

Hey guys , how's holding the line going ? Even after the facebook blunder I think we got more steam behind us.

If this situation ever resolved soon, It will be weird to see our group to dissolve... I mean we are hurdled together by the Ending's ****storm....and when we see the light of they day....well must say it will be an interesting time.

But until then , holding the line together.

[Sandoo]

Just read the first page. Very interesting but I feel it's a bit too much.

I consider myself a hardocre game. I love the ME franchise, and I used to love Bioware (yeah, the ending and DLC day 1 did upset me, forcing me to use Origin didn't help)
I was very angry when i've finished the game and agree with what everybody were saying about it. Even created a FB account just to like the retake thing.

But don't you think you're going a bit too far ? It's a great game (the best I've played over the last 10 years) but it's still only a game. Speaking of military organisation, etc ... it's just too much for a game, no matter how good it is.

I've made my peace with it. Bioware/EA can talk all they want, i'll only react if they actually do something.
Either they do a DLC for the real ending and I might reconsider my opinion on Bioware. (not sure about EA since they behave like that for other games...). Make it a free DLC and it would be even better.
Or they do nothing and I will simply ignore Bioware from now on.

I've bought the first ME when it came out only because it was done Bioware. I knew it would be awesome because KOTOR was the greatest game, so was baldur gate.
Now it'll be different, if I see a new Bioware game, I just won't bother with it.

You've talk about the effect of the free star wars weekend, the MP event but there's also the major discount on Origin games.

In conclusion, very interesting first page. I've learned a lot but I think it's going a bit too far for a game.

[Bunzmaster]

We're holding the line here in Canada too!

If BW wasn't in another Province I'd go pickit in front of their office for everyone :-)

Our choices should matter! Hold the Line!

[wepeel_]

Vap0ur_Snake wrote...

 Quick question (and sorry for going off topic)

How do you ad the fleet banner to your profile? I can't find a signature option anywhere. And also what code do I need to use, txt ?

The quick way is to find one from your area, right-click and select view
image to see what the URL is. Then copy the URL, go into Profile ->
Forum Settings to find the signature window and type in [ img ] url [ /img ] without the spaces.

Modifié par wepeel_, 19 mars 2012 - 03:04 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Sandoo wrote...

Just read the first page. Very interesting but I feel it's a bit too much.

I consider myself a hardocre game. I love the ME franchise, and I used to love Bioware (yeah, the ending and DLC day 1 did upset me, forcing me to use Origin didn't help)
I was very angry when i've finished the game and agree with what everybody were saying about it. Even created a FB account just to like the retake thing.

But don't you think you're going a bit too far ? It's a great game (the best I've played over the last 10 years) but it's still only a game. Speaking of military organisation, etc ... it's just too much for a game, no matter how good it is.

I've made my peace with it. Bioware/EA can talk all they want, i'll only react if they actually do something.
Either they do a DLC for the real ending and I might reconsider my opinion on Bioware. (not sure about EA since they behave like that for other games...). Make it a free DLC and it would be even better.
Or they do nothing and I will simply ignore Bioware from now on.

I've bought the first ME when it came out only because it was done Bioware. I knew it would be awesome because KOTOR was the greatest game, so was baldur gate.
Now it'll be different, if I see a new Bioware game, I just won't bother with it.

You've talk about the effect of the free star wars weekend, the MP event but there's also the major discount on Origin games.

In conclusion, very interesting first page. I've learned a lot but I think it's going a bit too far for a game.

I agree. Just grab a petition for those who want the endings changed, and then if Bioware continue to be coy, just say **** it and don't buy anything from them. They've lost a ****load of customers.

Saying change the endings or we'll flank you military style really isn't necessary. All they care about is money. Once they see that no one wants to pay for their ****ty DLC without a coherent ending, they'll get the message.

[Vap0ur_Snake]

wepeel_ wrote...

Vap0ur_Snake wrote...

 Quick question (and sorry for going off topic)

How do you ad the fleet banner to your profile? I can't find a signature option anywhere. And also what code do I need to use, txt ?

The quick way is to find one from your area, right-click and select view
image to see what the URL is. Then copy the URL, go into Profile ->
Forum Settings to find the signature window and type in [ img ] url [ /img ] without the spaces.

I did it on my iPhone so I just copied and pasted the actual image and didn't have to use code thanks. 

[Hicks233]

Sandoo wrote...

Just read the first page. Very interesting but I feel it's a bit too much.

I consider myself a hardocre game. I love the ME franchise, and I used to love Bioware (yeah, the ending and DLC day 1 did upset me, forcing me to use Origin didn't help)
I was very angry when i've finished the game and agree with what everybody were saying about it. Even created a FB account just to like the retake thing.

But don't you think you're going a bit too far ? It's a great game (the best I've played over the last 10 years) but it's still only a game. Speaking of military organisation, etc ... it's just too much for a game, no matter how good it is.

I've made my peace with it. Bioware/EA can talk all they want, i'll only react if they actually do something.
Either they do a DLC for the real ending and I might reconsider my opinion on Bioware. (not sure about EA since they behave like that for other games...). Make it a free DLC and it would be even better.
Or they do nothing and I will simply ignore Bioware from now on.

I've bought the first ME when it came out only because it was done Bioware. I knew it would be awesome because KOTOR was the greatest game, so was baldur gate.
Now it'll be different, if I see a new Bioware game, I just won't bother with it.

You've talk about the effect of the free star wars weekend, the MP event but there's also the major discount on Origin games.

In conclusion, very interesting first page. I've learned a lot but I think it's going a bit too far for a game.

More about false advertising and consumer rights. Falling into the trap of being a fan first and consumer second is easy. If you let this slide then they can slide on future products, not just Bioware but the precedent is set for other developers.

[MDT1]

Is it true, that if you bought ME3 via origin, you can echange it for another game of the same value?

[vigna]

atghunter wrote...

vigna wrote...

Thanks ATG.....Good night folks........and remember

A line in the sand can be crushed by waves.

A line in the dirt can be scattered by winds.

The line in our hearts and minds can never be torn away.


Hold The Line!

I like that! /salute

Thanks!

[wepeel_]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Sandoo wrote...

Just read the first page. Very interesting but I feel it's a bit too much.

I consider myself a hardocre game. I love the ME franchise, and I used to love Bioware (yeah, the ending and DLC day 1 did upset me, forcing me to use Origin didn't help)
I was very angry when i've finished the game and agree with what everybody were saying about it. Even created a FB account just to like the retake thing.

But don't you think you're going a bit too far ? It's a great game (the best I've played over the last 10 years) but it's still only a game. Speaking of military organisation, etc ... it's just too much for a game, no matter how good it is.

I've made my peace with it. Bioware/EA can talk all they want, i'll only react if they actually do something.
Either they do a DLC for the real ending and I might reconsider my opinion on Bioware. (not sure about EA since they behave like that for other games...). Make it a free DLC and it would be even better.
Or they do nothing and I will simply ignore Bioware from now on.

I've bought the first ME when it came out only because it was done Bioware. I knew it would be awesome because KOTOR was the greatest game, so was baldur gate.
Now it'll be different, if I see a new Bioware game, I just won't bother with it.

You've talk about the effect of the free star wars weekend, the MP event but there's also the major discount on Origin games.

In conclusion, very interesting first page. I've learned a lot but I think it's going a bit too far for a game.

I agree. Just grab a petition for those who want the endings changed, and then if Bioware continue to be coy, just say **** it and don't buy anything from them. They've lost a ****load of customers.

Saying change the endings or we'll flank you military style really isn't necessary. All they care about is money. Once they see that no one wants to pay for their ****ty DLC without a coherent ending, they'll get the message.

Well, it's up to everyone to decide their own level of involvement. I doubt there's anyone seeing this as a military operation; it's just a matter of input from people with backgrounds in different fields in regards to principles to adhere to if you're hoping to bring about a change. And we do. Personally I think the whole thing is beautiful.

And if this in some way serves to make BioWare bring about a new ending, well. That would be pretty legendary, both for them as a company and for us as consumers.

Modifié par wepeel_, 19 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[solvill]

MeldarthX wrote...

http://www.examiner....ans-and-bioware

I know its been talked about a bit; but Atghunter's thoughts on this would be very incredible.

People that are starting to loose heart; don't. BW/EA are scared - and every right to be. What happened there was possibly one of the worst blunders they could of done along with one of the best things for us.

Some people were starting to get dishearted by the double talk; lack of talk - That's exactly why they are doing it. Problem is - they just renewed resolve for most - and gave inshot for many; many more.

We're growing - we will continue to grow. We are making history here - Like our Shepards - Gamers of all ages - from all over the world - are uniting as one. Not out of hate - but out of Love for these games.....and what BW was - the goto RPG company.

I don't mind them wanting to expand their sales - but its your loyal fans that been with you from the beginning that keep you alive as a company. Please remember that.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

couldn't say it better
Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[HanshinRynuusuke]

*Slight spoilers involved in summary*

As has already been noted in other forums, I am sure. This is a normal cycle. If we hold or stick to our guns, then things are more likely to change. The PR will, as has been mentioned, try to distract or mitigate our opinions.

Please everyone, remember why we have a problem with the endings presented! Below is a short list that sums up the issues, at least in my opinion.

1) Brevity, the ending cutscene's shortness and essential lack of interactiveness. Meaning, you are given 3 options and none that are based on your in-game choices or character's philosophical point of view.

2) Confusing and under-developped. We have the introduction of new concepts and characters that are major players in the last few seconds of the game. None of the events, after being hit by harbinger's beam, makes sense! The events are no longer in player control, aka preordained.

3) Lore and Plot Holes! An example of a lore hole is the destruction of the mass-relays in all endings. Followed by the inferred genocide of your entire allied fleet. Lastly, SSV Normandy's magical and mysterious escape by undisclosed or non-sensical means.

4) The complete disregard and discarding of the philosophical concepts of the Mass Effect Universe. I can only go into this briefly as there is way to much to truly expound. Essentially, you have endings that do not fit the premise of the game(s) as per official Bioware statements. Or the complex issues deliberated IC (In-character) over the course of playing the Mass Effect series.

5) Player choice completely discarded! Time for a quote from bioware's official Mass Effect page:

“EXPERIENCE THE BEGINNING, MIDDLE, AND END OF AN EMOTIONAL STORY
UNLIKE ANY OTHER, WHERE THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE COMPLETELY SHAPE YOUR
EXPERIENCE AND OUTCOME.”

All the endings presented are a blantant and 'purposeful' affront to that promise. Unless I am mistaken, that could be considered false-advertising..misleading etc. I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure that there are laws against that kind of conduct. That said, I am not giving legal advice or attempting to suggest legality with respect to this subject.

This is my own opinion but is also found at the following website and forum: http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Respectfully,
~Hanshin Rynuusuke

[lasertank]

PaulusAugustus wrote...

Lena Grozi wrote...

 ... But after the initial anger is gone for me, resolve stays, and it stays strong.
So good work, everyone, and stay strong.
Hold the line!

Yes I feel the same - completely disheartened by the ME3 ending, had wanted to go back and replay from the beginning of ME1, new character, new choices, new romance and see how it effects the game but now I see no point in doing that. From what I can tell, the ONLY thing that effected the ending of ME3 is whether or not you destroyed the collector base.

You may as well not completed any side quests in any of the previous games as they bring nothing to ME3's end game, besides a few meagre assets that you can make up for with multiplayer if you choose to. You killed Wrex and the Salarians died at Virmire? You let the council die? Nearly everybody died in the Collector Base assault? You blew Ashley/Kaidan's brains out on the Citadel? You backstabbed the Krogan? Liberated either the Quarians or Geth and destroyed the other?  Doesn't really matter so why go back and make those choices now?

After all the liberal talk in the pre-release stages of choices throughout the series making the ending matter, providing that linear ending without any real choice is what has us feeling let down or outright upset/angry by the endings and I think the media should acknowledge that instead of painting the disgruntled fans as crying over their lack of gumdrops, rainbows, fluffy kittens and gingerbread houses.

I've reached an acceptance stage now where I'm over the ending to not let it affect me anymore but after being a fan of Bioware ever since picking up the original Baldur's Gate 5-CD Big Box back in the day, this ending has seriously compromised my confidence and trust in their storytelling and narrative.

PaulusAugustus - Holding the Line.

Totally agreed. I'm already over the grief but my resolve became stronger. Holding the line!

[DIE75]

I just wanted to pop in to show my support…

I am a longtime Bioware fan and although not an extremely vocal one, I am quite unhappy with the way ME3 ended. I am an older gamer who loves a good RPG and even if Mass Effect has slowly moved away from what I would consider to be a true RPG, it has still been a wonderful series up until the last few minutes of the final game. I don't mind Shepard giving his/her life but at the same time, I was hoping that character wouldn't take the galaxy with them in doing so. It seems no matter what you do, it is a no-win scenario. Either the Reapers destroy the galaxy or you do. If we go by what has been shown in the ME2 DLC Arrival, the destruction of the Mass Relays and the supernova-like explosions that followed wiped out every system they reside in which destroyed quite a few major colonies and home worlds including Earth (the Charon relay orbits Pluto). I have not read through every statement made by Bioware or every thread in this forum arguing one way or the other since the game was released so I am considering the Arrival DLC to be cannon.

I was under the impression, as it seems most were, that even though this story arch was over the ME universe would carry on. To me, it just doesn’t make sense to spend 8+ years building a magnificent, intricate universe with all of its detail and lore to just destroy it as well as most of its inhabitants to end a single story arch. I can come to grips with a game ending poorly, I have been gaming long enough to see a ton of terrible endings but I just find it hard to accept that any game made in the future based on this universe will have to either be a prequel to the series or run parallel to it.

I have attempted to come to grips with the ending and start another playthrough but I am finding it extremely difficult to do so. I hope this movement is successful in getting either an extended or alternate ending to resolve not only the plot holes created (where was Joker headed anyway?) but to also keep the Mass Effect universe intact for future adventures.

Good luck and hold the line!  

Modifié par DIE75, 19 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[Utopianus]

Lil One wrote...

Dreaming of one day writing a book (many of us do) I have read a lot about how to write and how not to write. What they did with this ending, introducing a new character (the "child") at the very end and breaking with the established character of the protagonist (no argument, mere acceptance as truth) is a big no-no. Even in books it will outrage most readers and risk alienating them from future work.

This is partly why I even now have a hard time believing that this ending actually was approved.


Holding the line.

Not just that - introducing a new point, concept or character at the end, or conclusion, is THE major big no-no in any writing, per se. All university students, in fact perhaps even high school students, have been instructed in the basics of how NOT to write an essay, and doing the above is exactly the first thing we were told NOT to to do.