9972 réponses à ce sujet

[marshkoala]

@Gulkin
Sorry questions.

Is this the original thread that was locked out? If it is does anyone know why it is locked out. Do the moderators give a reason or do they just stop the thread?

@The Almighty Al
Boy was that a great story!!!
Gives me reason to hope! We are not alone!

@DoctorCrowtgamer
Thank you so much for the save!

[Agamemnon2589]

Having just read a goodly portion of this thread, I have to say I'm a little overwhelmed. I mean, I knew this movement had support...but not THIS much. This is amazing. I can't believe there are even legitimate professionals in the realms of PR, finances, gaming, and the military actively joining and lending advice to this movement. This is incredible. I was willing to hold the line before, but this? It brings a tear to me eye.

[Amschel]

The ending was just so demoralizing. It's been a few weeks now and i still don't have any desire to do a second play through. I really don't see my self buying any dlc for this game because it would not be enough incentive for me to play the game again. Also, I am not going to say that i will refuse to buy any future Bioware games because i just don't know what they will end up producing. However i will probably not preorder their games anymore.

I hope this does not come off as childish. I don't mean to use this as a threat to Bioware that im going to boycott them unless they fix the ending. It is just how i feel.

People keep pointing out the different holes in the ending and that its just confusing and lacks a lot of closure. And I believe these to be true. If you take another perspective though you realize that the ending is just demoralizing. If an ending to a game that has all these choices and should drive people to play through multiple times, but the last 10 minutes or so just throws your desire to play the game anymore out the window, I can only see that as a failure.

I have also seen people talk about the ending being clever, that if you think about it Shepard is just dreaming/hallucinating the ending. If this is true, if this is what Bioware planned, I still don't see it as a good ending. To me this is Bioware saying "ok the ending is just Shepards hallucination, if the fans think really hard they will realize this, and we get to have a clever ending." Except this just ends up with the fans who come to this hallucination conclusion having to determine the entire ending on their own, Bioware not having to really commit to anything. This end also still lacks any closure, witch i believe is one of the biggest reasons people don't like the ending.

I apologize for the randomness of this post, I guess i just needed to vent a little. Anyway I hope we can keep the pressure up and convince Bioware/Ea to take action and compromise with the fans.

[RockyRoberts]

^^^ I agree don't fall into the tactics that have been described in this post. Let's stay positive and civil and make sure that our voices are clearly heard!

[wepeel_]

Flyprdu wrote...

Noatz wrote...

I like how Stanley Woo is saying "End of Line." whenever he locks a thread.

This could just be an ironic turn of phrase, but it is also possible he is doing it specifically to try and get under people's skin.

Don't rise to it.

Nah, it's just a Tron quote.  It's not intentional.

Also, Stanley has been doing that for years, going back to before the ME1 release. I believe he's just doing his job. But you are right in that we can't let it bother us. We're most likely going to have to live through a lot worse before this is over.

[Captiosus77]

Beti88 wrote...

Looks like our letter campaign failed miserably, because there not even a whisper about it. The first bunch of letters should've arrived today, yet not a peep:(

Letter campaigns don't work immediately. Just ask the fans of Family Guy and Jericho who went through similar campaigns. Protesting takes time, lots of time. The best thing a company could wish for is consumer ADHD: That is to say, the protest loses steam, gets discouraged, and goes off to the next "new shiny". Then the company can just blow it off.

So don't be discouraged that the first letter campaign hasn't done anything yet. Just keep writing letters.

Modifié par Captiosus77, 19 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[Volion]

TurambarEA wrote...

I don't see how any threads concerning the endings or reactions to them can be considered not to be relevant to the story/campaign but if he's locking that thread for not being story related, then this one is really no different. Any Plan B in the event they start locking our threads?

I'll see what I can do.. 

Modifié par Volion, 19 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Aligalipe]

Pandoravv3 wrote...

One bit of perspective from someone in the stock market (disclaimer, I do not deal in stocks for video game companies, but it should all be very similar). They will in fact lose money if they release a new ending. When people invest in a particular stock, they mainly look at 2 things, quarterly profits, and what the buzz about the company is. Right now their quarterlies are looking good as they release ME3 right before the end of Q1 getting great sales numbers for that quarter which looks good to investors (and IMO might be why the ending sucks so much.... they were just too close to the quarters end), and if you look at what you see when you don't look on forums, but rather at what an average investor would look at, you mostly don't see our cause being championed that much. Seriously take a look at google, alot of their money comes not only from sales, but also investors, and to an average investor it does in fact look like a vocal minority if they see it at all. This should change! Right now I'm assuming EA/Bioware is sitting in their lovely bunker, and they are thinking about it, but how they are thinking about it is probably in these terms.

1. If they release a statement saying our bad, we messed up then the news outlets will pick up on it immediately, and it makes EA/Bioware not look as good of an investment, and while the fans are happy, the investors (now that they know the company screwed up) will lose confidence. However, by doing this a new ending is made, and future sales will not go down.

2. Bunker down, ride the storm, and deal with the significantly reduced sales from fan dissatisfaction, which leads to less funding for bioware, and possibly a reduced role for them in EAs roster, however their stock price remains consistent.

Right now they are analyzing which will cost them more money. The thing is they are going to lose money anyway, and they should (they delivered a bad product, that did not meet expectations that the creators themselves created), however we can pick which way they lose it. We love bioware, and know they can make good games, that's why we'd all prefer it if choice #1 happened (also because I want my house with tali). We can have #1, all we need to do is take the choice away from EA/Bioware, spread the message to the media as much as possible, and when the investors start panicking they will move heaven and earth to not lose their second source of money (aka DLC sales from customers). We have a newsworthy story here, but it's all about the phrasing. We can't just say hey, this video game gave me an ending that I didn't like, and we want it fixed, as average joe doesn't care about whether or not you like mass effect 3s ending or not. And since average joe doesn't care, news outlets won't report it. We need to get our own PR machine working (figuratively of course), and display the story differently. Instead of being gamers angry at a failed ending, display it as a group of consumers concerned with accountability of corporations for their products, as that is something average joe can watch/read/ect. Play up the childs play event (which was absolutely genius by the way), and make this a story relateable to even for non gamers, and a cautionary tale to every corporation out there. Make a splash! holding the line on the forums is a valuable service, and is something that needs to be done, but to truly stick it to em, we need to do things outside as well (like the childs play thing), and really get the media's attention, because the more stories produced, the more investors are going to see the problems, and the more likely EA/Bioware is to think that option #1 is more attractive. Thank you for your time, hold the line, we won't let marauder shields sacrifice be in vain!

Lol the media is against us mostly, they are on EA's payroll.

[Jedifan421]

To be honest, as someone who's invested in this movement not for himself but for everyone else, it's going to be hilarious for BioWare to try write themselves out of the hole they put themselves in for the ending DLC that will inevitably come and cost 1600+ MSP or 15 dollars. If you can honestly disregard the insanely circular logic of the Catalyst, Shepard's entire character being 180'd in the final conversation and the A,B,C, format ending, no matter what you do, all the relays blow up and trillions die in supernova like explosions across the galaxy including the entire Sol system and everyone in it.

They could have just explained that the Relays are disabled and not destroyed with one line of dialogue but they were too lazy to do that.

That being said, I'm glad this movement to Retake Mass Effect 3 is remaining civil, getting organized and remaining leaderless. All the fans who want a new ending DESERVE it.

Remember Marauder Shields and HOLD THE LINE!

[SkaldFish]

Captiosus77 wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

They are in full cover it up mode. They have no intention of doing anything about the ending, so they are going to cover it up, silece the people that are vocal about this, and try to make it look like there is no problem.

That would work if it were limited only to these boards. Unfortunately for Bioware - and fortunately for us - Pandora's Box is mostly open now. They can't silence everyone, because this topic is all over Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and as comments to Metacritic and gaming sites and has been picked up by some media outlets such as Forbes and GameFront.

There's no way they can put everything back in the box now and act like it never happened. Even attemping to do so will only harm their reputation further.

Do you honestly see them trying to silence those who are vocal about the ending? I don't see it, frankly, and I think it's important to be fair. I understand the suspicion and sense of distrust, but I think an accusation of muzzling just makes us look unreasonable. IMO. FWIW. YMMV.

[wepeel_]

Beti88 wrote...

Looks like our letter campaign failed miserably, because there not even a whisper about it. The first bunch of letters should've arrived today, yet not a peep:(

I wouldn't assume that at all. Remember, they want to keep this as quiet as possible. Announcing that they got hundreds of sincere letters of disappointment doesn't seem like a move to benefit them in that. But though they may not openly comment on it, it's still one more piece of a whole they won't be able to ignore forever.

To stand any hope of getting what we want here, we have to be extremely patient.

Modifié par wepeel_, 19 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[Enichan]

Aligalipe wrote...

Enichan wrote...

Whew, finally caught up again. atghunter for president, like, srsly. You may not want to be a leader of this movement, but if nothing else you're an inspiration.

So I'm thinking of doing a commentary video on Mass Effect 3 on my Youtube channel, probably Wednesday since RL calls the next couple days. I don't have a whole lot of subscribers, but I still have about 140, so I could reach a decent chunk of people.

Should I?

Can you give us a link to your youtube channel so we can subscribe. That 140 can be 1000 

Sure, I'd feel guilty about the self-advertising inherent, but this thread moves so quickly most people won't notice the link anyway. >_> So here you go. No video til Weds though, I'm not gonna half-ass this if I'm gonna do it.

[Captiosus77]

SkaldFish wrote...

Captiosus77 wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

They are in full cover it up mode. They have no intention of doing anything about the ending, so they are going to cover it up, silece the people that are vocal about this, and try to make it look like there is no problem.

That would work if it were limited only to these boards. Unfortunately for Bioware - and fortunately for us - Pandora's Box is mostly open now. They can't silence everyone, because this topic is all over Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and as comments to Metacritic and gaming sites and has been picked up by some media outlets such as Forbes and GameFront.

There's no way they can put everything back in the box now and act like it never happened. Even attemping to do so will only harm their reputation further.

Do you honestly see them trying to silence those who are vocal about the ending? I don't see it, frankly, and I think it's important to be fair. I understand the suspicion and sense of distrust, but I think an accusation of muzzling just makes us look unreasonable. IMO. FWIW. YMMV.

That's the point I'm trying to make. The accusation of "silencing critics" holds no merit because if they were going to take that path, they would have done it much, much earlier than now. Now it's too late to even try to do that because if they do as Vasparian suggested, they will only harm their reputation further.

Modifié par Captiosus77, 19 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Captiosus77 wrote...

Beti88 wrote...

Looks like our letter campaign failed miserably, because there not even a whisper about it. The first bunch of letters should've arrived today, yet not a peep:(

Letter campaigns don't work immediately. Just ask the fans of Family Guy and Jericho who went through similar campaigns. Protesting takes time, lots of time. The best thing a company could wish for is consumer ADHD: That is to say, the protest loses steam, gets discouraged, and goes off to the next "new shiny". Then the company can just blow it off.

So don't be discouraged that the first letter campaign hasn't done anything yet. Just keep writing letters.

This!  Stay together people,this is going to take a while but if we don't give up we can not lose.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Pandoravv3]

Aligalipe wrote...

Pandoravv3 wrote...

One bit of perspective from someone in the stock market (disclaimer, I do not deal in stocks for video game companies, but it should all be very similar). They will in fact lose money if they release a new ending. When people invest in a particular stock, they mainly look at 2 things, quarterly profits, and what the buzz about the company is. Right now their quarterlies are looking good as they release ME3 right before the end of Q1 getting great sales numbers for that quarter which looks good to investors (and IMO might be why the ending sucks so much.... they were just too close to the quarters end), and if you look at what you see when you don't look on forums, but rather at what an average investor would look at, you mostly don't see our cause being championed that much. Seriously take a look at google, alot of their money comes not only from sales, but also investors, and to an average investor it does in fact look like a vocal minority if they see it at all. This should change! Right now I'm assuming EA/Bioware is sitting in their lovely bunker, and they are thinking about it, but how they are thinking about it is probably in these terms.

1. If they release a statement saying our bad, we messed up then the news outlets will pick up on it immediately, and it makes EA/Bioware not look as good of an investment, and while the fans are happy, the investors (now that they know the company screwed up) will lose confidence. However, by doing this a new ending is made, and future sales will not go down.

2. Bunker down, ride the storm, and deal with the significantly reduced sales from fan dissatisfaction, which leads to less funding for bioware, and possibly a reduced role for them in EAs roster, however their stock price remains consistent.

Right now they are analyzing which will cost them more money. The thing is they are going to lose money anyway, and they should (they delivered a bad product, that did not meet expectations that the creators themselves created), however we can pick which way they lose it. We love bioware, and know they can make good games, that's why we'd all prefer it if choice #1 happened (also because I want my house with tali). We can have #1, all we need to do is take the choice away from EA/Bioware, spread the message to the media as much as possible, and when the investors start panicking they will move heaven and earth to not lose their second source of money (aka DLC sales from customers). We have a newsworthy story here, but it's all about the phrasing. We can't just say hey, this video game gave me an ending that I didn't like, and we want it fixed, as average joe doesn't care about whether or not you like mass effect 3s ending or not. And since average joe doesn't care, news outlets won't report it. We need to get our own PR machine working (figuratively of course), and display the story differently. Instead of being gamers angry at a failed ending, display it as a group of consumers concerned with accountability of corporations for their products, as that is something average joe can watch/read/ect. Play up the childs play event (which was absolutely genius by the way), and make this a story relateable to even for non gamers, and a cautionary tale to every corporation out there. Make a splash! holding the line on the forums is a valuable service, and is something that needs to be done, but to truly stick it to em, we need to do things outside as well (like the childs play thing), and really get the media's attention, because the more stories produced, the more investors are going to see the problems, and the more likely EA/Bioware is to think that option #1 is more attractive. Thank you for your time, hold the line, we won't let marauder shields sacrifice be in vain!

Lol the media is against us mostly, they are on EA's payroll.

The gaming media yes, but it we can get enen a tiny segment on something like MSNBC/FOX/ect, then it will have a chain reaction i beleive. As we've seen with forbes, places that don't take money from EA are there, we just have to look outside the gaming community for allies.

[Aligalipe]

Is there a forum for Retake Mass Effect Movement? I mean BSN is regulated by Bioware we need a forum in which we can discuss freely? I'm not blaming Bioware for that. Some of our discussions are not directly related to ME3 story like this one; http://social.biowar...ndex/10246768/1

If there is not a forum for our movement. Can someone create one? I would offer to create it but I'm going to an exchange program for one week. I can't do it.

[Skyline45]

[/quote]

The gaming media yes, but it we can get enen a tiny segment on something like MSNBC/FOX/ect, then it will have a chain reaction i beleive. As we've seen with forbes, places that don't take money from EA are there, we just have to look outside the gaming community for allies.

[/quote]

CNN

[Utopianus]

Tirranek wrote...

I ask of you one question:

Does the end taint the moments that came before it? Do you see yourself replaying this game knowing your choices do not matter in the end? Is it the journey, the destination, or both that matter?

Those arguments against the ending are very rational, and I agree with most of them. Introducing a new power so late in the game was largely unnecessary, though I wouldn't say it undermined things all that much. You get the impression it's a dormant power that set things in motion, only activated when circumstances came together to prove that method didn't work.

At the very least the ending is what I'd call 'disposable', the kind of thing you'd accept at the end of a film, but lacking when it comes to a story you've shaped. It's too cinematic when it shouldn't be, and not enough (in my opinion) when it would benefit from it.

As for your question, I felt reluctant to start a new game initially, for a number of reasons.

1) The game, regardless of flaws in the ending moments, is a very emotional experience. As much as I thought I was ready for a space-apocalypse conclusion, ME3 did an amazing job of surprising me. I didn't really feel like jumping back in to it right away because I was still processing it from the first time.

2) For all the characters I created, I realised that I only really had 1 definitive Shepard. She was the first one I made in ME1 back in 2007, when all the choices and consequences were unknowns, and therefore all the more meaningful. I made lots of other characters in 1, while waiting for 2, and in 2, while waiting for 3. Yet when I finished 3, I honestly felt finished. Tom Francis explained it really well:

"Shepard is the best game character I’ve ever played. She’s been an ongoing improv collaboration between me and BioWare to build a hero that works for their plot, but suits my tastes. Since we composed her first inspiring speech to the crew when she took charge of the Normandy, a commanding, brutally effective woman has emerged through 60 hours of tough decisions. She’s killed thousands who got in her way, hung up on the interstellar Council four times, punched the same reporter in three different interviews and shot people mid-sentence. But she has also formed conflicted, quiet, sometimes touching relationships with some of the alien weirdos dragged along on her mission. Relationships that gave her character a gentler side I didn’t expect, but which made sense of the person I had in my head."

With prior games in the series, there was always that element of 'what will happen next?' Now that I've completed the trilogy, I know what leads to what and there is a certain magic, both narratively and technically, that any other playthrough won't have.

3) With the state of the ending in flux as a result of efforts to change it, and the possibility that it might, I'm not particularly invested in playing through again until a definitive state is reached.

4) It's been a long journey, and rather than wrap things up with a bow, a whole new world of 'what ifs, what abouts, and huh?s' have opened up. It's knackering, quite frankly . Those same questions will be there no matter what Shepard I play, so beyond a certain point I feel I'll just be repeating myself.

But does it taint the series for me? Honestly, I would say no, because in my opinion the final choice feels like the first decision in a new series, instead of the last one of the old. Sort of like how Robert E. Howard's Conan series marks the fall of Atlantis as the starting point of a new age, the fall of the relays etc feels like the origins of how a new society is started.

Yes it's basically the same ending (visually) for each outcome, and yes, the war asset mechanic makes little difference aesthetically to things (which I would have liked a lot), but for me, every choice in the series was about how my particular Shepard was able to get to that ending. It was about being strong enough to affect a change of some sort, and that strength manifested through all sorts of choices I'd made. I felt it faithfully reflected that, and the only problem is that there is no immediate Mass Effect 4 to see the long-term consequences of her actions.

I can't quite remember where I last saw it - it's been floating around in the forum and elsewhere, but Casey Hudson had already said any future materials for the Mass Effect franchise will not go past the events of Mass Effect 3, or at least not past when Shepard pushes one of the three buttons. And I guess that is what Casey had meant when he said ME3 would be the "definitive" ending to the series - it defines the boundaries to which the series will take place, in this case a timeline - from the year when humans discovered the prothean ruins on Mars to the moment Shepard presses the button. So Shepard's decision is the final, DEFINITIVE, decision for the entire series and franchise, not the first for a new series in the franchise. That is if we can still trust what Casey says of course.

Modifié par Utopianus, 19 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Aligalipe]

Skyline45 wrote...



The gaming media yes, but it we can get enen a tiny segment on something like MSNBC/FOX/ect, then it will have a chain reaction i beleive. As we've seen with forbes, places that don't take money from EA are there, we just have to look outside the gaming community for allies.


CNN

We can send letters to them instead of Bioware.

Modifié par Aligalipe, 19 mars 2012 - 05:22 .

[Amschel]

RockyRoberts wrote...

^^^ I agree don't fall into the tactics that have been described in this post. Let's stay positive and civil and make sure that our voices are clearly heard!

I apologize if you see my post as using dirty tactics to try and force Bioware into changing the ending. I finished the game pretty early after release and I havent really vented until now how if feel. Like i said, i don't plan on boycotting Bioware or anything.Tthat post is just how i feel, and i am trying to be honest.

I am also trying to stay positive about this whole thing. I love Bioware. I own most of their games. I just feel like I can not blindly support them anymore. I guess that is what i was really trying to get at with my incoherent post.

[marshkoala]

@Padoravv3
Thanks for the insight!

Could you help us by maybe posting a example of an e-mail to a newspaper or online news outlet.
I'm not certain how do even start but I would like to try.

[Stanley Woo]

TurambarEA wrote...

Volion wrote...

Noatz wrote...

I like how Stanley Woo is saying "End of Line." whenever he locks a thread.

This could just be an ironic turn of phrase, but it is also possible he is doing it specifically to try and get under people's skin.

Don't rise to it.

"End of Line." The phrase was most famously used by the Master Control Program in TRON. 
It is similar to human phrases like, "End of communication", "That's final", and "That will be all".

There's no way he picked it absent of thought for our unofficial catch cry 'hold the line'. I thought it was somewhat inflammatory as well (throwing sarcasm at already agitated people is always going to be inflammatory) but yes, agreed, don't rise to it.

I don't see how any threads concerning the endings or reactions to them can be considered not to be relevant to the story/campaign but if he's locking that thread for not being story related, then this one is really no different. Any Plan B in the event they start locking our threads?

"End of line" predates "hold the line"  by approximately 25 years. I have been using it for at least 9 years, since before Mass Effect 1. It is an homage to the Mster Control Program in the 1982 Disny movie "Tron," not a dig at anyone's cause or protest movement. If you believe it is inflammatory, then I would suggest that you're overthinking things and should perhaps learn a little more about me and the movie I am referencing.

Threads are locked if they are not story and campaign related. Since we already have a couple of threads discussing the protest movement, new threads discussing only the protest movement or addressing the protest movement will likelt be locked. This is not decret information, and I would have gladly told you all of this had you but asked in a private message. Jumping to conclusions and crafting conspiracy theories based on half-considered circumstantial evidence does none of us--least of all your "cause"--any good.

thank you.

[Vasparian]

Aligalipe wrote...

Skyline45 wrote...



The gaming media yes, but it we can get enen a tiny segment on something like MSNBC/FOX/ect, then it will have a chain reaction i beleive. As we've seen with forbes, places that don't take money from EA are there, we just have to look outside the gaming community for allies.


CNN

We can send letters to them instead of Bioware.

That guy can't even get his information accurate.

[Jamie9]

Aligalipe wrote...

Is there a forum for Retake Mass Effect Movement? I mean BSN is regulated by Bioware we need a forum in which we can discuss freely? I'm not blaming Bioware for that. Some of our discussions are not directly related to ME3 story like this one; http://social.biowar...ndex/10246768/1

If there is not a forum for our movement. Can someone create one? I would offer to create it but I'm going to an exchange program for one week. I can't do it.

There is a FaceBook and Twitter page, though I myself don't use them too much. At the moment, being on the BSN puts us directly under the glare of BioWare. We want this. If we discuss things elsewhere, they don't know it's happening.

However, additional assets can't hurt, so I shan't stop anyone who comes up with new ideas. That's the whole point of being a group with diverse opinions. 

Our choices should matter: Hold the Line.

[marshkoala]

Oh by the way with the tv series "Jericho" fans sent tons and tons of nuts to the network to show how they felt could we do the same.
Something physical related to the ME3 universe. Just an idea, heard the network thought the fans of Jericho were pretty cute.