9972 réponses à ce sujet

[ahandsomeshark]

Pandoravv3 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Pandoravv3 wrote...

One bit of perspective from someone in the stock market (disclaimer, I do not deal in stocks for video game companies, but it should all be very similar). They will in fact lose money if they release a new ending. When people invest in a particular stock, they mainly look at 2 things, quarterly profits, and what the buzz about the company is. Right now their quarterlies are looking good as they release ME3 right before the end of Q1 getting great sales numbers for that quarter which looks good to investors (and IMO might be why the ending sucks so much.... they were just too close to the quarters end), and if you look at what you see when you don't look on forums, but rather at what an average investor would look at, you mostly don't see our cause being championed that much. Seriously take a look at google, alot of their money comes not only from sales, but also investors, and to an average investor it does in fact look like a vocal minority if they see it at all. This should change! Right now I'm assuming EA/Bioware is sitting in their lovely bunker, and they are thinking about it, but how they are thinking about it is probably in these terms.

1. If they release a statement saying our bad, we messed up then the news outlets will pick up on it immediately, and it makes EA/Bioware not look as good of an investment, and while the fans are happy, the investors (now that they know the company screwed up) will lose confidence. However, by doing this a new ending is made, and future sales will not go down.

2. Bunker down, ride the storm, and deal with the significantly reduced sales from fan dissatisfaction, which leads to less funding for bioware, and possibly a reduced role for them in EAs roster, however their stock price remains consistent.

Right now they are analyzing which will cost them more money. The thing is they are going to lose money anyway, and they should (they delivered a bad product, that did not meet expectations that the creators themselves created), however we can pick which way they lose it. We love bioware, and know they can make good games, that's why we'd all prefer it if choice #1 happened (also because I want my house with tali). We can have #1, all we need to do is take the choice away from EA/Bioware, spread the message to the media as much as possible, and when the investors start panicking they will move heaven and earth to not lose their second source of money (aka DLC sales from customers). We have a newsworthy story here, but it's all about the phrasing. We can't just say hey, this video game gave me an ending that I didn't like, and we want it fixed, as average joe doesn't care about whether or not you like mass effect 3s ending or not. And since average joe doesn't care, news outlets won't report it. We need to get our own PR machine working (figuratively of course), and display the story differently. Instead of being gamers angry at a failed ending, display it as a group of consumers concerned with accountability of corporations for their products, as that is something average joe can watch/read/ect. Play up the childs play event (which was absolutely genius by the way), and make this a story relateable to even for non gamers, and a cautionary tale to every corporation out there. Make a splash! holding the line on the forums is a valuable service, and is something that needs to be done, but to truly stick it to em, we need to do things outside as well (like the childs play thing), and really get the media's attention, because the more stories produced, the more investors are going to see the problems, and the more likely EA/Bioware is to think that option #1 is more attractive. Thank you for your time, hold the line, we won't let marauder shields sacrifice be in vain!

My knowledge of EA's stock situation is pretty old (I did some in depth industry analysis for an Industrial Organization project a few years ago) but wasn't it already pretty dismal because of all the licensing rights they were paying (part of the reason they changed their buisness model somewhat when it came to acquiring studios/IP's). I would imagine that with the huge upfront production costs of video games DLC content plays a huge role in their revenues (as in the 1.99-3.99 packs that amount to a costume change and not much more) and any significant expectation of a decrease in those sales would be a big problem.

EA stock is rising right now following a trend you usually see with it. Right now its hovering around 17$, but with a major release just coming out, I imagine investors are seeing what is up with it before commiting (EAs stock recently went down from around mid 20s due to issues with the SW MMO, so I imagine they are desperatly trying to get it higher) As for their buisness model you are in fact correct, In the end they will lose more money if they do not fix the ending. However the guy deciding if that's true or not is likely an ageing suit who thinks the average age of a gamer is 14, and we all have ADHD. Therefore the hope of them reaching the right conclusion is what is the issue. They are probably seriously underestimating the movement, and by the time they realize it, it might be too late.

Yeah I meant dismal in terms of it's long-term price. As in it was trading around 50-60 bucks pre 2008 or so and since then has been topping out at around 25 bucks. I think they dropped 50 or so percent between 2007 and 2008. And while I hate to be one of the gamers that blames everything on the publishers when you think about Bioware had a fairly short development cycle between ME2 and ME3, especially when you consider the number, and size, of the ME2 DLC and the fact a PS3 version was made just a little over a year ago.

[The Almighty Ali]

Bachuck wrote...

Good afternoon everyone.

I need your help. Yesterday when I left this topic it was at 158 pages (and I've read them all); Today it's at 204. However, between my real life responsibilities and the weekend being over, I can't possibly red through all those pages. I also awoke quite ill this morning and won't spend much time on the computer today.

What I'm requesting from all of you is if you feel there are any posts, videos, articles, etc., that would make a great addition to the main post, please PM me the link(s). That doesn't mean I'm going to automatically add it, but it'd make it far easier for me to read/review and update the front page than to read through nearly 50 pgs of new content (and while reading those 50, more are created).

I'm aware of EA/Bioware's statement on facebook but I need links to any rebuttle posts/analysis that were made in here or elsewhere. I ask for your help in helping me keep this topic updated. I can't do it alone. In other words, help me, and thus, each other, 'Hold This Topic Line'.

For the record, I thought the original FB post ("At this time...") was SOP and didn't discourage me in the least. 

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
BaChuck

We'll keep you posted.

[DarthSliver]

Chronor wrote...

The price drop mentioned above is pretty telling. Compared to Skyrim, which has been out far longer than ME3, Skyrim is still commanding $60 in the US with no sign of letup. That just shows that a good game has a longer, financial shelf life. ME3 could have been this and much more.

Which is sad because Skyrim was a broken piece of crap when it released and not even patches can truly fix it because the issue with it is in its coding/ roots of development. At least ME3 is good until the godkid shows up

[Pandoravv3]

RazorrX wrote...

It is possible that the Anti-Retake stuff going on is a result of the corporate response. They have people who will be trying to jack up the user ratings, trying to write as many pro ending posts as possible to drive the retake movement posts back, etc. It is pretty simple actually. IF they can deflect enough away they do not have to admit that we are a large group and not a 'minority'.

The corporation is trying to spin this still, but it is obvious we have their attention now. I take this as a good sign.

The Line will be held Mr. Woo. The Line will be held.

Extremely possible, Companies have been caught before trying to modify review scores, and whatnot, and if you beleive it, there's a user who says that his friend works for Bioware, and they were told to pose as people who like the endings. I don't know if I buy that, a bit too conspiracy theory like for me, but it wouldn't suprise me either.

[sadako]

wheelierdan wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

which to me is another slap in the face i just paid 60 dollars for the game.

Honestly I feel that the rest on Mass Effect 3 i.e. almost every second of the game was worth what I paid just the ending devalued the whole feeling of the game.

i agree and honestly im not gonig to get worked up about that, if you take out the end it was worth the money.  It's just soo soon is all.

What? you didn't notice that the journal system was faulty, that even the journal system in ME1 and ME2 was actually working?

[ArmyKnifeX]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

People have actually started protesting our protest? Why? What have we done to them?

I think some of the upset-ness comes from them thinking that if we succeed then suddenly video games aren't art. That's a pretty silly argument in and of itself because if they are art, they're corporate art. Unless it's released for free in which case the players would be incredibly silly for protesting something in it.

However, with ME3 specifically there were things we were promised that we didn't get as well as blatant marketing lies. But unlike the guy who made the FTC complaint, we want to work with BioWare to fix these things and give ME3, and the Shepard trilogy, the kind of ending it deserves!

[sadako]

Pandoravv3 wrote...

Extremely possible, Companies have been caught before trying to modify review scores, and whatnot, and if you beleive it, there's a user who says that his friend works for Bioware, and they were told to pose as people who like the endings. I don't know if I buy that, a bit too conspiracy theory like for me, but it wouldn't suprise me either.

They have a term for that. Astroturfing.

I prefer corporate sockpuppets.

[Wowlock]

MajorUhlan wrote...

Reporting in...

Just had a conversation with a friend today. He wasn't happy about the ending either, but he wasn't truly disappointed: or at least not enough to take a stand. It was good to hear his point of view that the ending allows for some imagination to be used. Unfortunately we had to agree to disagree, but it was interesting to get a "middle of the road" sort of perspective.

Hold the line!

You should've asked him '' Did you pay 60£ or so only yo Imagine the ending? '' 

But not every is as emotionally invested as most of us soo if he is satisfied....well good for him.

My worries is that since many dissatisfied customers tend to keep it to themselves...these kind of unethical acts will continue to surfice in the future.

Just look ath DLCs evolvement and now you get DAY 1 DLCs....and ME3 is just another example of how a beloved game can cut it's ending and force players to buy it seperately while shamelessly defending it.

I can only feel sad about the future if our message won't get through.

[Hydralysk]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

People have actually started protesting our protest? Why? What have we done to them?

I think some of the upset-ness comes from them thinking that if we succeed then suddenly video games aren't art. That's a pretty silly argument in and of itself because if they are art, they're corporate art. Unless it's released for free in which case the players would be incredibly silly for protesting something in it.

However, with ME3 specifically there were things we were promised that we didn't get as well as blatant marketing lies. But unlike the guy who made the FTC complaint, we want to work with BioWare to fix these things and give ME3, and the Shepard trilogy, the kind of ending it deserves!

I may sound like a broken recond here but this is pretty much what I think of when I hear the "Game are art and art cannot be changed!" line.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Versus Omnibus]

RazorrX wrote...

It is possible that the Anti-Retake stuff going on is a result of the corporate response. They have people who will be trying to jack up the user ratings, trying to write as many pro ending posts as possible to drive the retake movement posts back, etc. It is pretty simple actually. IF they can deflect enough away they do not have to admit that we are a large group and not a 'minority'.

The corporation is trying to spin this still, but it is obvious we have their attention now. I take this as a good sign.

The Line will be held Mr. Woo. The Line will be held.

One of PR's job is to keep whatever it is they represent in a positive light. All this anti-Retake movement stuff could very well be part of that PR, but without any proof there is no way to know for sure. Our best chance to overcome those challenges is to simply to stay calm and present our goals in a reasonable light.

Hold the line, men! Hold the line!

[wheelierdan]

sadako wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

which to me is another slap in the face i just paid 60 dollars for the game.

Honestly I feel that the rest on Mass Effect 3 i.e. almost every second of the game was worth what I paid just the ending devalued the whole feeling of the game.

i agree and honestly im not gonig to get worked up about that, if you take out the end it was worth the money.  It's just soo soon is all.

ok yeah the journal system sucked but i guess the many improvements overshadowed that for me.

What? you didn't notice that the journal system was faulty, that even the journal system in ME1 and ME2 was actually working?

[ahandsomeshark]

815Sox wrote...

Suggesting that this issue (a video game ending that people are upset about) is some how shifting PR response paradigms is way too much. Especially considering that in 2008 the United States had one of the most important elections in history which also was the first event where PR and Social Media mixed on a global scale. The 08 election was not just relegated to the US. Sure we voted, but everybody was paying attention.
.

I think you're conflating two ideas. The way social media impacts social civil duties and the way it impacts the consumer-producer relationship in terms of media production and consumption are too drastically different things.

[wicked_being]

Hey guys just in case this hasn't been posted yet:

http://pay.reddit.co..._twitter_monday

Modifié par wicked_being, 19 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[Faceless Minion]

I admire that you're standing for your belief.  But I feel the overall reaction is far too heated.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell Bioware you're displeased.  You're certaintly entitled to do that, and I would stand by you in saying you have a right to do that.

But the rampant "Swear off everything Bioware/EA till they fix it", "The entire series is now unreplayable", and this "Let's donate a ton of money to a charity on the bare hope they'll change anything"?  After the game has only been out for 12 days?

Or the claims that Bioware's silence and vague answers (which is standard company policy so early after release) is indicative of some kind of plot/conspiracy?

I support your opinion.  I feel the methods being used to portray this opinion are...extreme.

Non-extreme methods won't get noticed, and won't get cared about.  The movement is workig quite hard indeed to insure that our message, though passionate, is also respectful.  But let's examine just how this definite boycotting is working at this point, hrm?

Some quiet, "polite" sort of protest would not have garnered any traction at all, media wise...  Instead, what do we have thusfar?  Game reviewer sites have been steadily falling into our camp as well, after the quite expected sheep ones like IGN.  But more than that?  We have Forbes.  We have CNN.  We have non-gaming news pointing out that this is a serious financial issue for Bioware, and one that people are actively spending their own money to advertise!

So though I can respect your opinion...  It's just plain garbage in this situation.

Modifié par Faceless Minion, 19 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[sadako]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

People have actually started protesting our protest? Why? What have we done to them?

I think some of the upset-ness comes from them thinking that if we succeed then suddenly video games aren't art. That's a pretty silly argument in and of itself because if they are art, they're corporate art. Unless it's released for free in which case the players would be incredibly silly for protesting something in it.

However, with ME3 specifically there were things we were promised that we didn't get as well as blatant marketing lies. But unlike the guy who made the FTC complaint, we want to work with BioWare to fix these things and give ME3, and the Shepard trilogy, the kind of ending it deserves!

Well, still think it's a PR machine working. You should try make a poll on how many people think video games is art, and it would be a clear answer I think. Games are products. Art is not usually interactive.

They're just trying to put an art spin to it so as to excuse them saving money by reusing FMVs and changing the hues of the explosion.

Modifié par sadako, 19 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Pandoravv3 wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

It is possible that the Anti-Retake stuff going on is a result of the corporate response. They have people who will be trying to jack up the user ratings, trying to write as many pro ending posts as possible to drive the retake movement posts back, etc. It is pretty simple actually. IF they can deflect enough away they do not have to admit that we are a large group and not a 'minority'.

The corporation is trying to spin this still, but it is obvious we have their attention now. I take this as a good sign.

The Line will be held Mr. Woo. The Line will be held.

Extremely possible, Companies have been caught before trying to modify review scores, and whatnot, and if you beleive it, there's a user who says that his friend works for Bioware, and they were told to pose as people who like the endings. I don't know if I buy that, a bit too conspiracy theory like for me, but it wouldn't suprise me either.

Well if that it is what is happening I don't think it will help them much.  this movement is now all over the net and media and as long as we don't buy anything until they fix the ending they will continue to have problems.  I mean even the most casual gamers I know have now heard that Mass Effect 3 sucks and the shelves of every store I go into are full of copies.  Planeting people here will not stop us.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Agamemnon2589]

marshkoala wrote...

@Agamemnon2589
I know I was grasping at straws, but couldn't help it it made me laugh out loud. But I still think something physical is a good idea. The producers of Jericho said in the second season dvd that the bags of nuts made a diference.

Doing something is better than nothing.

No, totally. I think something physical like that would definitely make a point. I was just being silly. Jokes just don't translate via interwebz very well.

[wheelierdan]

sorry i write in the wrong section to respond t you. the journal was wonky but it didnt break the game for me.
i loved the flexibility of the combat, that i could play an adept with an assault rifle, with a scope so it felt like a sniper rifle. the amount of freedom in the weapon system was amazing.

[Lokial]

I am enjoying reading the well thought out responses made by everyone, especially ATGhunter. Can he be the main military tactician?

[Bachuck]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

One of PR's job is to keep whatever it is they represent in a positive light. All this anti-Retake movement stuff could very well be part of that PR, but without any proof there is no way to know for sure. Our best chance to overcome those challenges is to simply to stay calm and present our goals in a reasonable light.

Hold the line, men! Hold the line!

This.

Public Relations is NOT simply damage control. PR firms routinely go on the offensive to try and sway public opinion against the dissenters.

Modifié par Bachuck, 19 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[SkaldFish]

815Sox wrote...

Suggesting that this issue (a video game ending that people are upset about) is some how shifting PR response paradigms is way too much. Especially considering that in 2008 the United States had one of the most important elections in history which also was the first event where PR and Social Media mixed on a global scale. The 08 election was not just relegated to the US. Sure we voted, but everybody was paying attention.

Again, tons of assumptions in these posts. Goliath is more likely a way to get lots of people playing in order for Bioware to get the most data possible before it releases a patch.

Occam's Razor...

People need to realize that not everyone who plays this game is as intense as people are on this board. Also, not everyone is lividly pissed off about the ending and participating in a massive display of cathartic nerd rage.

And not everybody is hurling insulting labels like "cathartic nerd rage" at people they disagree with.

That said, I understand your position. There has been a tendency to demonize and imagine that dark conspiracies are in play, and I think it does damage our position. Goliath is a good example of a dark motive being attached to an event that had undoubtedly been on the post-release event calendar for a long time. But lapses in civility and ideal behavior don't invalidate the position, nor do they indicate that it is nothing more than "cathartic nerd rage."

[Jamie9]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Good afternoon everyone.

I need your help. Yesterday when I left this topic it was at 158 pages (and I've read them all); Today it's at 204. However, between my real life responsibilities and the weekend being over, I can't possibly red through all those pages. I also awoke quite ill this morning and won't spend much time on the computer today.

What I'm requesting from all of you is if you feel there are any posts, videos, articles, etc., that would make a great addition to the main post, please PM me the link(s). That doesn't mean I'm going to automatically add it, but it'd make it far easier for me to read/review and update the front page than to read through nearly 50 pgs of new content (and while reading those 50, more are created).

I'm aware of EA/Bioware's statement on facebook but I need links to any rebuttle posts/analysis that were made in here or elsewhere. I ask for your help in helping me keep this topic updated. I can't do it alone. In other words, help me, and thus, each other, 'Hold This Topic Line'.

For the record, I thought the original FB post ("At this time...") was SOP and didn't discourage me in the least. 

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
BaChuck

We'll keep you posted.

If you or anyone else sends him links/post would you mind posting on here that you have? It'd be helpful if we didn't all bombard BaChuck with the same things over and over ha ha.

I haven't sent anything yet, however, just FYI.

[Pandoravv3]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Pandoravv3 wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Pandoravv3 wrote...

One bit of perspective from someone in the stock market (disclaimer, I do not deal in stocks for video game companies, but it should all be very similar). They will in fact lose money if they release a new ending. When people invest in a particular stock, they mainly look at 2 things, quarterly profits, and what the buzz about the company is. Right now their quarterlies are looking good as they release ME3 right before the end of Q1 getting great sales numbers for that quarter which looks good to investors (and IMO might be why the ending sucks so much.... they were just too close to the quarters end), and if you look at what you see when you don't look on forums, but rather at what an average investor would look at, you mostly don't see our cause being championed that much. Seriously take a look at google, alot of their money comes not only from sales, but also investors, and to an average investor it does in fact look like a vocal minority if they see it at all. This should change! Right now I'm assuming EA/Bioware is sitting in their lovely bunker, and they are thinking about it, but how they are thinking about it is probably in these terms.

1. If they release a statement saying our bad, we messed up then the news outlets will pick up on it immediately, and it makes EA/Bioware not look as good of an investment, and while the fans are happy, the investors (now that they know the company screwed up) will lose confidence. However, by doing this a new ending is made, and future sales will not go down.

2. Bunker down, ride the storm, and deal with the significantly reduced sales from fan dissatisfaction, which leads to less funding for bioware, and possibly a reduced role for them in EAs roster, however their stock price remains consistent.

Right now they are analyzing which will cost them more money. The thing is they are going to lose money anyway, and they should (they delivered a bad product, that did not meet expectations that the creators themselves created), however we can pick which way they lose it. We love bioware, and know they can make good games, that's why we'd all prefer it if choice #1 happened (also because I want my house with tali). We can have #1, all we need to do is take the choice away from EA/Bioware, spread the message to the media as much as possible, and when the investors start panicking they will move heaven and earth to not lose their second source of money (aka DLC sales from customers). We have a newsworthy story here, but it's all about the phrasing. We can't just say hey, this video game gave me an ending that I didn't like, and we want it fixed, as average joe doesn't care about whether or not you like mass effect 3s ending or not. And since average joe doesn't care, news outlets won't report it. We need to get our own PR machine working (figuratively of course), and display the story differently. Instead of being gamers angry at a failed ending, display it as a group of consumers concerned with accountability of corporations for their products, as that is something average joe can watch/read/ect. Play up the childs play event (which was absolutely genius by the way), and make this a story relateable to even for non gamers, and a cautionary tale to every corporation out there. Make a splash! holding the line on the forums is a valuable service, and is something that needs to be done, but to truly stick it to em, we need to do things outside as well (like the childs play thing), and really get the media's attention, because the more stories produced, the more investors are going to see the problems, and the more likely EA/Bioware is to think that option #1 is more attractive. Thank you for your time, hold the line, we won't let marauder shields sacrifice be in vain!

My knowledge of EA's stock situation is pretty old (I did some in depth industry analysis for an Industrial Organization project a few years ago) but wasn't it already pretty dismal because of all the licensing rights they were paying (part of the reason they changed their buisness model somewhat when it came to acquiring studios/IP's). I would imagine that with the huge upfront production costs of video games DLC content plays a huge role in their revenues (as in the 1.99-3.99 packs that amount to a costume change and not much more) and any significant expectation of a decrease in those sales would be a big problem.

EA stock is rising right now following a trend you usually see with it. Right now its hovering around 17$, but with a major release just coming out, I imagine investors are seeing what is up with it before commiting (EAs stock recently went down from around mid 20s due to issues with the SW MMO, so I imagine they are desperatly trying to get it higher) As for their buisness model you are in fact correct, In the end they will lose more money if they do not fix the ending. However the guy deciding if that's true or not is likely an ageing suit who thinks the average age of a gamer is 14, and we all have ADHD. Therefore the hope of them reaching the right conclusion is what is the issue. They are probably seriously underestimating the movement, and by the time they realize it, it might be too late.

Yeah I meant dismal in terms of it's long-term price. As in it was trading around 50-60 bucks pre 2008 or so and since then has been topping out at around 25 bucks. I think they dropped 50 or so percent between 2007 and 2008. And while I hate to be one of the gamers that blames everything on the publishers when you think about Bioware had a fairly short development cycle between ME2 and ME3, especially when you consider the number, and size, of the ME2 DLC and the fact a PS3 version was made just a little over a year ago.

Oh, I completely agree, and I think you bring up a good point, I'm sure that the game was rushed, wouldn't be suprised at all if the ending is a direct result from them not having enough time before Q1 ends, as, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't bioware already force EA to give them a previous extension? Also because EA really needed a good Q1 showing because of the last big dip around january. Which is why I think they are so keen on keeping it from falling farther, after the almost 10$ drop due to the SWTOR issues, I think they really want it to stay where it is.

[Emberwake]

It seems very likely that at least some of the ending supporters are actually PR reps. EA has employed similar tactics in the past. It is quige telling to me that instead of replying in a few large pro-ending threads, they continue to spam the forum with new posts.

Hold the line.

[Jamie9]

Lokial wrote...

I am enjoying reading the well thought out responses made by everyone, especially ATGhunter. Can he be the main military tactician?

ATGhunter does not want to be the leader, or the main anything. From reading all of his posts, I get the impression he wants us to think for ourselves, to all fall into the role WE want to play (very fitting).

He has our back. We couldn't ask for anything more.

Use his posts to enlighten yourself, to choose your own actions!

Our choices should matter: Hold the Line.