9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

MeldarthX wrote...
To answer your question.......I can't and the really frustrating part  is I want to.  I a writer; I know how hard sometimes it is to pull everything together - You don't do it right and it falls apart.  This wasn't even trying to pull everything together; that's my biggest issue.....

I have a lot of friends who want me to log onto TOR - I won't and won't resub until something is done - DLC - forget it; I can't fire up ME1 to do a run through......because its space magic at the end....its ruined the jounery.....


Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Yeah, I want to replay the ME Trilogy, I want to play Dragon Age again. But I am sticking to my promise. I'm not a full time writer, but I did do very well in English and have always had a hobby for writing. I've never actually released any of it, I just write for my own satisfaction.

The thing is, with me at least, you often lose sight of your original intentions for the story. You get carried away in the many chapters, the many characters in your story. But in the end, if you stay true to your characters, they, in a way, write the rest of the story for you.

This is why I think the ending can and should be different. The other 98% of the game sets obvious directions for multiple epilogues, yet they are all ignored in favour of what we got. Maybe BioWare lost sight, or maybe they didn't stick true to their characters, and ended up using an ending that didn't work with them.

Our choices should matter: Hold the Line.

[Hicks233]

shephard987 wrote...

Hey guys, am I the only one having trouble getting on the donation site?
Because I've been trying for the last hour and I still can't get in.

Same here. Give it a little time, could be maintenance/traffic/glitch?

[ahandsomeshark]

Faceless Minion wrote...

I admire that you're standing for your belief.  But I feel the overall reaction is far too heated.  I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell Bioware you're displeased.  You're certaintly entitled to do that, and I would stand by you in saying you have a right to do that.

But the rampant "Swear off everything Bioware/EA till they fix it", "The entire series is now unreplayable", and this "Let's donate a ton of money to a charity on the bare hope they'll change anything"?  After the game has only been out for 12 days?

Or the claims that Bioware's silence and vague answers (which is standard company policy so early after release) is indicative of some kind of plot/conspiracy?

I support your opinion.  I feel the methods being used to portray this opinion are...extreme.

Non-extreme methods won't get noticed, and won't get cared about.  The movement is workig quite hard indeed to insure that our message, though passionate, is also respectful.  But let's examine just how this definite boycotting is working at this point, hrm?

Some quiet, "polite" sort of protest would not have garnered any traction at all, media wise...  Instead, what do we have thusfar?  Game reviewer sites have been steadily falling into our camp as well, after the quite expected sheep ones like IGN.  But more than that?  We have Forbes.  We have CNN.  We have non-gaming news pointing out that this is a serious financial issue for Bioware, and one that people are actively spending their own money to advertise!

So though I can respect your opinion...  It's just plain garbage in this situation.

Also as far as swearing off EA/bioware products I doubt many people are doing it just because of the ME3 endings. For me I've had issues with EA for years, Bioware and the Mass Effect series were literally the ONLY reasons I hadn't completely sworn off them yet. And then Dragon Age: Origins and ME2, along with all the stories about how they were revamping their buisness model to allow more creative freedom and what not to their aquired studios, made me think they had turned a corner. ME3's endings, plus some other issues I've had with their recent practices are more like the final nail in the coffin for me. And not really just with EA but with most major game publishers in general. Why am I going to continually give them my money if I dislike major portions of their business practices and models, and on top of that feel there's been a drop in the quality of the final products?

[Fulgrim88]

Bachuck wrote...

I urge each of you to please remain calm and civil in your exchanges. Disrespectful comments or attacks from the "ReTake" group go a long way in helping the EA/Bioware PR machine paint the movement in a negative light, ultimately leading to public dismissal.

'Holding the Line' is great, but do so with respect and dignity. Anything less undermines your position.

Quoted for truth.

This thread has begun to spin a little too fast. Keep a clear head, folks

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Hydralysk wrote...

Razorsteel wrote...

Well, still think it's a PR machine working. You should try make a poll on how many people think video games is art, and it would be a clear answer I think. Games are products. Art is not usually interactive.

They're just trying to put an art spin to it so as to excuse them saving money by reusing FMVs and changing the hues of the explosion.

Well, with art, I can see what sucks and elect not to buy it. ME 3 was good until the last 5-10 mins. If i could have witnessed the ending first, I would have never parted with my 60+ dollars.

This is also another issue I have. The people who say "Don't like it? Don't buy it! Vote with your wallet!" don't seem to realize that argument falls apart when I need to open my wallet and give them cash before I can even see what I'm voting for.

Yeah and want is more now with PC games there is no way to return the game.  This is why I would support a law that gives every buyer of software a 30 day grace period where if the product does not live up to what the makers said it would be they can return it for a full refund.  I don't know it's just an idea.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Optimus J]

I think it's a good thing that groups whose defend the ending appeared. now we can compare the numbers. They aren't growing much and their threshold will be low.

It's a matter of time before the press pick up on the comparison between the group sizes.

[sabasebatyne]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...


I think some of the upset-ness comes from them thinking that if we succeed then suddenly video games aren't art. That's a pretty silly argument in and of itself because if they are art, they're corporate art. Unless it's released for free in which case the players would be incredibly silly for protesting something in it.

Exactly. This "changing the ending renders the game not art" argument, apart from being rather incorrect, is essentially pointless, simply because video games are a form of interactive entertainment. This is quite divorced from a status, either real or implied, as art. Even if player choice ultimately matters little in the existing endings, the rest of the series trumpeted "choice" as the all-important crux of the universe (literally and figuratively). It is therefore even more baffling to me why the current endings are the only options, with no recourse for players who want to take alternative actions. Futhermore, the logic really starts to break down when one considers that (assuming additional endings) those who prefer the original endings could simply refrain from downloading or playing content which changes the ending of their playthrough. I truly fail to see the downside to this scenario for anyone concerned.

[Taboo]

Mass Effect will always be art in my eyes. Changing the ending won't diminish that.

[shephard987]

THIS WAS JUST PUT UP ON OUR FACEBOOK GROUP

"I just received a message from the person that originally filled the FTC complain, and asked others to do the same.

I'm not in the business of sharing the private messages people send to me, but I have to make an exception for this.

Here is his message:

"Hi. I'm the guy who first filed an FTC complaint (there are a lot of others now). I just wanted to say that I fully support the movement and was in no way trying to make it look bad. I knew that my move would be controversial, but that it would be a net PR gain for the movement if the story went viral, which it did. It wasn't done as an "attack" on bioware or anything of the sort; at best, the FTC would give them a slap on the wrist fine. The important thing was that it would keep the controversy in the media cycle, and that folks outside the gaming community actually know what the FTC is and what it's for and the fact that people filed complaints against EA carries weight. I just wanted to let you know that, since I know some thought I was trying to attack bioware or that it was a lawsuit or something; it's nothing of the sort. I'm on your side and this was my way of holding the line. Good luck to all of us, and remember Marauder Shields!"

Message Ends.

My response:

Your effort to keep the Retake movement in the spotlight has succeeded. Many people were were on the wire about the movement have now decided we are a bunch of arrogant, selfish gamers that are lashing out because we don't know how to act constructively.

Your move to file with the FTC has received universally negative reactions, and had undone much of the good the movement has managed to do, and has added a permanent blemish to our record.

You have managed to create infighting among the #RetakeMassEffect movement when we need as much cohesion as possible.

You have shown Bioware and EA that we are not responsible enough to be communicated with as we will just attack them blindly. They have no reason to offer a dialogue with us if they believe that we are going to attack them out right.

The Retake movement is a movement of gamers united in the attempt to get the ending that the Mass Effect series deserves.

We are not here to launch legal campaigns and make enemies out of the only entities that can help us achieve our goals.

If you wish to continue your FTC suit please do so elsewhere, and please make every attempt to distance yourself from the #RetakeMassEffect movement."

ANY THOUGHTS?

Hold The Line

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

sabasebatyne wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...


I think some of the upset-ness comes from them thinking that if we succeed then suddenly video games aren't art. That's a pretty silly argument in and of itself because if they are art, they're corporate art. Unless it's released for free in which case the players would be incredibly silly for protesting something in it.

Exactly. This "changing the ending renders the game not art" argument, apart from being rather incorrect, is essentially pointless, simply because video games are a form of interactive entertainment. This is quite divorced from a status, either real or implied, as art. Even if player choice ultimately matters little in the existing endings, the rest of the series trumpeted "choice" as the all-important crux of the universe (literally and figuratively). It is therefore even more baffling to me why the current endings are the only options, with no recourse for players who want to take alternative actions. Futhermore, the logic really starts to break down when one considers that (assuming additional endings) those who prefer the original endings could simply refrain from downloading or playing content which changes the ending of their playthrough. I truly fail to see the downside to this scenario for anyone concerned.

Also if changing a game means that it is not art then any company who has ever released a patch or DLC for one of their games is not making art in the first place.  So Bioware was never making art and we have every right to ask for more endings.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Deflagratio]

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

[Versus Omnibus]

shephard987 wrote...

THIS WAS JUST PUT UP ON OUR FACEBOOK GROUP

"I just received a message from the person that originally filled the FTC complain, and asked others to do the same.

I'm not in the business of sharing the private messages people send to me, but I have to make an exception for this.

Here is his message:

"Hi. I'm the guy who first filed an FTC complaint (there are a lot of others now). I just wanted to say that I fully support the movement and was in no way trying to make it look bad. I knew that my move would be controversial, but that it would be a net PR gain for the movement if the story went viral, which it did. It wasn't done as an "attack" on bioware or anything of the sort; at best, the FTC would give them a slap on the wrist fine. The important thing was that it would keep the controversy in the media cycle, and that folks outside the gaming community actually know what the FTC is and what it's for and the fact that people filed complaints against EA carries weight. I just wanted to let you know that, since I know some thought I was trying to attack bioware or that it was a lawsuit or something; it's nothing of the sort. I'm on your side and this was my way of holding the line. Good luck to all of us, and remember Marauder Shields!"

Message Ends.

My response:

Your effort to keep the Retake movement in the spotlight has succeeded. Many people were were on the wire about the movement have now decided we are a bunch of arrogant, selfish gamers that are lashing out because we don't know how to act constructively.

Your move to file with the FTC has received universally negative reactions, and had undone much of the good the movement has managed to do, and has added a permanent blemish to our record.

You have managed to create infighting among the #RetakeMassEffect movement when we need as much cohesion as possible.

You have shown Bioware and EA that we are not responsible enough to be communicated with as we will just attack them blindly. They have no reason to offer a dialogue with us if they believe that we are going to attack them out right.

The Retake movement is a movement of gamers united in the attempt to get the ending that the Mass Effect series deserves.

We are not here to launch legal campaigns and make enemies out of the only entities that can help us achieve our goals.

If you wish to continue your FTC suit please do so elsewhere, and please make every attempt to distance yourself from the #RetakeMassEffect movement."

ANY THOUGHTS?

Hold The Line

Bravo, buddy. Bravo!!

HOLD THE LINE!!

[Ace Kenshader]

Optimus J wrote...

Ace Kenshader wrote...

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the old saying goes.

Basically what I mean is that everyone has a different standard on what comes as satisfying and good endings, many people think that these endings are good and shouldn't be changed. Others would disagree, the fact of the matter is, is that Bioware didn't make the games to do god damn fan service, they want to make excellent games and get money as that is how the industry works whether you like it or not.

Many? In favor have 50 members on facebook, against have 42250.
Now consider BOTH GROUPS a vocal minority. And do the math of what the silent majority feels like.

If your logic tells that most people act like the 50 and only those 42K exist, well there's a flaw in you thoughts.

Have you ever considered that maybe that most of the buyers don't really use Facebook?  Considering that Mass Effect 3 has already sold 1.5 million copies on the 360 alone, and when groped with the PS3 and PC it's over 2 million, there's a good possibility that a large majority of the gamers on this just really don't give a ****. Unless you got evidence that shows over half a million want the ending changed, your logic is fatally flawed.

[shephard987]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. 
Your opinion is understandable.
However, there are those that disagree and therefore will fight this til the end. 

Thank you

Those of us that fight the fight,
Hold the Line

[Quietness]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

There has been many pieces of literature and art that has had to be revised, changed or even flat out reconed due to consumer perception. No one likes a starving artist, and this is more than normal art it was created to be consumed.

[Malchat]

We have to allow for some people who were genuinely positive (or just indifferent) to the ending to sincerely resist the idea that we're causing major changes to their game experience.

They are just as possessive of their head canon as we are, just coming from the other direction... the idea that we're retconning their experience can be upsetting, especially if they perceive our motivations as frivolous ('rainbows and ponies', mai waifu Tali etc.)

I think we have to be respectful of the dissenter's concerns and show that we don't desire to trample over a game they feel equally protective about.

Modifié par Malchat, 19 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

shephard987 wrote...

THIS WAS JUST PUT UP ON OUR FACEBOOK GROUP

"I just received a message from the person that originally filled the FTC complain, and asked others to do the same.

I'm not in the business of sharing the private messages people send to me, but I have to make an exception for this.

Here is his message:

"Hi. I'm the guy who first filed an FTC complaint (there are a lot of others now). I just wanted to say that I fully support the movement and was in no way trying to make it look bad. I knew that my move would be controversial, but that it would be a net PR gain for the movement if the story went viral, which it did. It wasn't done as an "attack" on bioware or anything of the sort; at best, the FTC would give them a slap on the wrist fine. The important thing was that it would keep the controversy in the media cycle, and that folks outside the gaming community actually know what the FTC is and what it's for and the fact that people filed complaints against EA carries weight. I just wanted to let you know that, since I know some thought I was trying to attack bioware or that it was a lawsuit or something; it's nothing of the sort. I'm on your side and this was my way of holding the line. Good luck to all of us, and remember Marauder Shields!"

Message Ends.

My response:

Your effort to keep the Retake movement in the spotlight has succeeded. Many people were were on the wire about the movement have now decided we are a bunch of arrogant, selfish gamers that are lashing out because we don't know how to act constructively.

Your move to file with the FTC has received universally negative reactions, and had undone much of the good the movement has managed to do, and has added a permanent blemish to our record.

You have managed to create infighting among the #RetakeMassEffect movement when we need as much cohesion as possible.

You have shown Bioware and EA that we are not responsible enough to be communicated with as we will just attack them blindly. They have no reason to offer a dialogue with us if they believe that we are going to attack them out right.

The Retake movement is a movement of gamers united in the attempt to get the ending that the Mass Effect series deserves.

We are not here to launch legal campaigns and make enemies out of the only entities that can help us achieve our goals.

If you wish to continue your FTC suit please do so elsewhere, and please make every attempt to distance yourself from the #RetakeMassEffect movement."

ANY THOUGHTS?

Hold The Line

Good job.

Let's not let this distract us any more.  i think we are very close to victory all we have to do is stay together.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Hydralysk]

Btw for any new entries or people that can't see/don't know about the link for one reason for another we are trying to get #RetakeME3 trending on twitter. Every voice counts, so if you can sign up to post this great (you can
also check out HarbyTheReaper ). Keep it civil, and if you don't want to spend time making your own here's a template.

@masseffect ME3 was outstanding, but the ending is unacceptable. When will new content be made available to address this? #RetakeME3

http://pay.reddit.co...twitter_monday/

Modifié par Hydralysk, 19 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Fallenfromthesky]

DarthSliver wrote...

Chronor wrote...

The price drop mentioned above is pretty telling. Compared to Skyrim, which has been out far longer than ME3, Skyrim is still commanding $60 in the US with no sign of letup. That just shows that a good game has a longer, financial shelf life. ME3 could have been this and much more.

Which is sad because Skyrim was a broken piece of crap when it released and not even patches can truly fix it because the issue with it is in its coding/ roots of development. At least ME3 is good until the godkid shows up

But with a Bethesda game we all expect that there will be bugs because it is simply such a massive game and they have a history Oblivion, the Fallouts and Skyrim all have texture and gameplay bugs. Bioware on the other hand have always delivered quality story telling and great closure KOTOR and the first 2 Mass Effects did it why then did Mass Effect 3 drop the ball so bad at the end. A really shame IMHO.

Hold the Line people will hear 

[The Almighty Ali]

shephard987 wrote...

THIS WAS JUST PUT UP ON OUR FACEBOOK GROUP

"I just received a message from the person that originally filled the FTC complain, and asked others to do the same.

I'm not in the business of sharing the private messages people send to me, but I have to make an exception for this.

Here is his message:

"Hi. I'm the guy who first filed an FTC complaint (there are a lot of others now). I just wanted to say that I fully support the movement and was in no way trying to make it look bad. I knew that my move would be controversial, but that it would be a net PR gain for the movement if the story went viral, which it did. It wasn't done as an "attack" on bioware or anything of the sort; at best, the FTC would give them a slap on the wrist fine. The important thing was that it would keep the controversy in the media cycle, and that folks outside the gaming community actually know what the FTC is and what it's for and the fact that people filed complaints against EA carries weight. I just wanted to let you know that, since I know some thought I was trying to attack bioware or that it was a lawsuit or something; it's nothing of the sort. I'm on your side and this was my way of holding the line. Good luck to all of us, and remember Marauder Shields!"

Message Ends.

My response:

Your effort to keep the Retake movement in the spotlight has succeeded. Many people were were on the wire about the movement have now decided we are a bunch of arrogant, selfish gamers that are lashing out because we don't know how to act constructively.

Your move to file with the FTC has received universally negative reactions, and had undone much of the good the movement has managed to do, and has added a permanent blemish to our record.

You have managed to create infighting among the #RetakeMassEffect movement when we need as much cohesion as possible.

You have shown Bioware and EA that we are not responsible enough to be communicated with as we will just attack them blindly. They have no reason to offer a dialogue with us if they believe that we are going to attack them out right.

The Retake movement is a movement of gamers united in the attempt to get the ending that the Mass Effect series deserves.

We are not here to launch legal campaigns and make enemies out of the only entities that can help us achieve our goals.

If you wish to continue your FTC suit please do so elsewhere, and please make every attempt to distance yourself from the #RetakeMassEffect movement."

ANY THOUGHTS?

Hold The Line

I know the guy had good intentions, but I don't condone of his actions.
Still, What's done is done and I'm not going to hold it against him.

[Carnage752]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

Thank you for your opinion. I respectfully disagree, but we are always happy to hear new opinions.

Stay civil and hold the line!

[Syrellaris]

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

[sabasebatyne]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mass Effect will always be art in my eyes. Changing the ending won't diminish that.

I agree totally. Once again, its status as art is in no way determined by the ending or changes to it (if any). However, its status as a legitimate and satisfying form of interactive entertainment is completely defined by BW's response to the issue. Leaving aside the entertainment aspect, whether or not they ever update or change the ending, I will always love the time I had with my Shepard in this universe. Additional or revised endings would simply give me some proper closure to that time.

[Versus Omnibus]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

But that's only if video games are considered art, which nearly everyone had a different opinion on it (I don't believe VG are art).

Besides, we aren't "forcing" Bioware to do anything. It's not like we have a gun pointed at their heads; we're just simply giving Bioware our feedback which is that we don't like the endings and would love it if Bioware fixes them. If Bioware really only cared about what they think they wouldn't constantly ask the fans for feedback like they say they're doing now.