9972 réponses à ce sujet

[NOD-INFORMER37]

I havent beat the game yet, but without spoilers, how bad is the ending exactly? I mean I know how the community can overreact sometimes(no offence, and I'm not saying anyone here is) but it seems a little far fetched to me that Bioware such a bad ending that theres not one good thing to say about it.

Anyways if it is that bad, should I just wait to beat the game until the "new" ending they apparently plan on making is released or get the new ending in a second playthrough?

[Fulgrim88]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

I think many here actually agree with you.

It's not so much about forcing our opinion on them. The way I see it, it's more about pointing out why it's in their best interest to change the ending, because it objectively contradicts, even invalidates much of their own creation.

Bottom line; we're not saying "Your picture sucks", but we're saying "Hey, there's a big stain on your otherwise great picture that you've overlooked. Might wanna fix that"

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 19 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Captiosus77]

shephard987 wrote...
*snip*

My response would have been considerably shorter:

"While you are well within your rights to file a complaint with the FTC, please bear in mind how other social movements, such as Occupy Wall Street, were dismissed. The media latched onto the negative aspects of it, alone, and used that to turn public sentiment against them. I'm sure you were well intentioned, but the old adage of 'any publicity is good publicity' doesn't really apply in this scenario."

I did get a chuckle out of his comment that "at best" the FTC would issue a fine. I was an early adopter of Windows Phone 7 on AT&T and when AT&T and Microsoft really screwed up the pre-NoDo and NoDo software updates, disgruntled AT&T customers sent thousands of complaints to the FTC. Guess what happened.

If you guessed "nothing", here's a box of Thin Mints cookies.

[Quietness]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

I would be cautiously optomistic. I WANT to be their customer for a long long time. I would reserve my judgement until the game is released.

[Hydralysk]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

I'd be happy, but I doubt the indoc theory is real. In Final Hours it's said that they were planning to do something like the indoc theory but scrapped it, so most of the evidence is probably left over from that.

[Pandoravv3]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

While I respect your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it, I must respectfully disagree. When art is pushed out early to get extra money, and sacrifices quality in the process because some non artistic exec said that it would be more cost effective, I don't beleive it is art anymore. Art is mostly in the indie market right now, from large studios I don't expect art, I expect good entertainment. As art is interesting, but I have a stressfull enough life as it is, sometimes I want to play games to be entertained. As such I want an ending that entertaines me, not leaves me with soul crushing darkness.

[The Almighty Ali]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Happy, As that's the theory most seem to have drawn a conclusion to. Even myself.

[Carnage752]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Specify. Are both centered around the indoctrination theory?

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

So you think it's okay for an artist to lie about what he is selling you because artist are above the law?  We have a whole thread showing the lies they told.  Those lies are the reason i paid $80 instead of waiting for reviews.  Now if Bioware wants to refund my money then I will stop asking for the content they told me would be in the game.  They also said I would not need Multiplayer to get all singleplayer endings and they continue to spread this lie.  I think all companies,even those in the 'art" business should be held to their words by customers.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[ahandsomeshark]

shephard987 wrote...

THIS WAS JUST PUT UP ON OUR FACEBOOK GROUP

"I just received a message from the person that originally filled the FTC complain, and asked others to do the same.

I'm not in the business of sharing the private messages people send to me, but I have to make an exception for this.

Here is his message:

"Hi. I'm the guy who first filed an FTC complaint (there are a lot of others now). I just wanted to say that I fully support the movement and was in no way trying to make it look bad. I knew that my move would be controversial, but that it would be a net PR gain for the movement if the story went viral, which it did. It wasn't done as an "attack" on bioware or anything of the sort; at best, the FTC would give them a slap on the wrist fine. The important thing was that it would keep the controversy in the media cycle, and that folks outside the gaming community actually know what the FTC is and what it's for and the fact that people filed complaints against EA carries weight. I just wanted to let you know that, since I know some thought I was trying to attack bioware or that it was a lawsuit or something; it's nothing of the sort. I'm on your side and this was my way of holding the line. Good luck to all of us, and remember Marauder Shields!"

Message Ends.

My response:

Your effort to keep the Retake movement in the spotlight has succeeded. Many people were were on the wire about the movement have now decided we are a bunch of arrogant, selfish gamers that are lashing out because we don't know how to act constructively.

Your move to file with the FTC has received universally negative reactions, and had undone much of the good the movement has managed to do, and has added a permanent blemish to our record.

You have managed to create infighting among the #RetakeMassEffect movement when we need as much cohesion as possible.

You have shown Bioware and EA that we are not responsible enough to be communicated with as we will just attack them blindly. They have no reason to offer a dialogue with us if they believe that we are going to attack them out right.

The Retake movement is a movement of gamers united in the attempt to get the ending that the Mass Effect series deserves.

We are not here to launch legal campaigns and make enemies out of the only entities that can help us achieve our goals.

If you wish to continue your FTC suit please do so elsewhere, and please make every attempt to distance yourself from the #RetakeMassEffect movement."

ANY THOUGHTS?

Hold The Line

If anything I think you should be more upset at the media painting an FTC complaint as some outrageous move. Filing an FTC complaint is perfectly reasonable (and really not that big of a deal). It's only being made into a big deal by the media because they assume gamers don't know how the FTC works and will accept whatever they say and jump to conclusions without doing their research, and no offense but responding to him like that only proves him right. The FTC is intended to protect consumers from multiple things including advertising, and in this case it's pretty hard to ignore the fact that EA's public campaign definitely involved some questionable advertising in relation to what things were implied to be in the game vs what was actually in the final product. And in the situation of pre-orders, which gaming companies actively try to promote in order to maximize profit, there's enough of a question of whether they were willfully allowing information, which they knew to be false to be spread in order to push pre-orders. Now would I have filed an FTC complaint? No but that's more because I'm lazy and I would assume it involves a lot of paperwork. But there's absolutely no reason anyone should think he's childish or an entitled gamer because of it. FTC complaints happen all the time and really it's a tool consumers should use more readily. Also filing a complaint does not equal filing a "suit". So unless I missed something about this particular story I don't think this guy is actually trying to get them sued for some sort of anti-competitive behavior.

[mmdestiny]

Ace Kenshader wrote...

Optimus J wrote...

Ace Kenshader wrote...

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder as the old saying goes.

Basically what I mean is that everyone has a different standard on what comes as satisfying and good endings, many people think that these endings are good and shouldn't be changed. Others would disagree, the fact of the matter is, is that Bioware didn't make the games to do god damn fan service, they want to make excellent games and get money as that is how the industry works whether you like it or not.

Many? In favor have 50 members on facebook, against have 42250.
Now consider BOTH GROUPS a vocal minority. And do the math of what the silent majority feels like.

If your logic tells that most people act like the 50 and only those 42K exist, well there's a flaw in you thoughts.

Have you ever considered that maybe that most of the buyers don't really use Facebook?  Considering that Mass Effect 3 has already sold 1.5 million copies on the 360 alone, and when groped with the PS3 and PC it's over 2 million, there's a good possibility that a large majority of the gamers on this just really don't give a ****. Unless you got evidence that shows over half a million want the ending changed, your logic is fatally flawed.

Bioware has always been about fan collaboration (or so they keep reminding us).  What they output will be created with the feedback of their fans (again, as they keep reminding us).  If the silent majority stays silent, they obviously aren't a part of that dialogue, so arguing whether the silent majority likes or dislikes the ending is of no consequence.  If the ending is mended via DLC, their options would be to A.) Continue not giving a crap and not purchase it, B.) continue not giving a crap and purchase it just for the experience, or C.) not be able to voice any negative reaction because if you didn't participate in the dialogue that led up to it, you can't complain about the decision that was reached.

Modifié par mmdestiny, 19 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[Jamie9]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

If they announce they are fixing this... my loyalty were be reafirmed. It has to revolve around your choices though
I'd go back and tell those people I told not to buy the game that they are actually getting their act together and convince them to buy it.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

I think many here actually agree with you.

It's not so much about forcing our opinion on them. The way I see it, it's more about pointing out why it's in their best interest to change the ending, because it objectively contradicts, even invalidates much of their own creation.

Bottom line; we're not saying "Your picture sucks", but we're saying "Hey, there's a big stain on your otherwise great picture that you've overlooked. Might wanna fix that"

I agree. The idea is to inspire Bioware to see why we consider the endings to be so terrible, enough so that they themselves want to change it and will put forth creative efforts to bring it to the standard which the ME series has set at this point. If they don't want the ending revised, they shouldn't bother trying, as it probably won't be any better in quality and will be made grudgingly.

[ahandsomeshark]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I havent beat the game yet, but without spoilers, how bad is the ending exactly? I mean I know how the community can overreact sometimes(no offence, and I'm not saying anyone here is) but it seems a little far fetched to me that Bioware such a bad ending that theres not one good thing to say about it.

Anyways if it is that bad, should I just wait to beat the game until the "new" ending they apparently plan on making is released or get the new ending in a second playthrough?

I felt the same way before I beat it. I figured everyone was being ridiculous, then I actually got to it. It's not that it's really bad, it's just seems really out of place in context with the rest of the games and kind of out of left field. And it will leave you with a lot more questions than answers.

[Lil One]

As for that anti-retakeem3 group, what I find sad is that they cannot accept that not everyone feel the same way they do, that no other opinion than theirs is correct.

[lanep25]

A little humor relief! Smile!

[Hydralysk]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I havent beat the game yet, but without spoilers, how bad is the ending exactly? I mean I know how the community can overreact sometimes(no offence, and I'm not saying anyone here is) but it seems a little far fetched to me that Bioware such a bad ending that theres not one good thing to say about it.

Anyways if it is that bad, should I just wait to beat the game until the "new" ending they apparently plan on making is released or get the new ending in a second playthrough?

I'd like to say wait, once you get to a big beam of light just turn it off and pretend Shepard jumped into a cannon and was fired headfirst in Harbinger, killing him but saving the galaxy, and you'd be better off.

But another part of me is saying you should finish the ending and then form your own opinions on it. Maybe look into on of the articles dealing with what's wrong with the ending.

I guess go with whatever side of my psyche you like best. For me the ending was already shoddy when I first watched it, and the more I thought about it the more it all fell apart.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 19 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[Bachuck]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Hello Syrellaris,

This thread is specifically for discussing the public relations tactics that EA/Bioware are employing on the community in response to the negative fan reaction. A question like the one you posed, which while valid, can also unintentionally derail this thread into a completely different topic.

Would you be so kind as to make a new thread in the forum to discuss that issue? It would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you.
BaChuck

Modifié par Bachuck, 19 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[Hydralysk]

Lil One wrote...

As for that anti-retakeem3 group, what I find sad is that they cannot accept that not everyone feel the same way they do, that no other opinion than theirs is correct.

I really don't mean to be rude, but I'm pretty sure that's how they feel about us.

Ahhh irony.

[SkaldFish]

HaesoME3 wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

Sypher_KoS wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

TurambarEA wrote...

Volion wrote...

Noatz wrote...

I like how Stanley Woo is saying "End of Line." whenever he locks a thread.

This could just be an ironic turn of phrase, but it is also possible he is doing it specifically to try and get under people's skin.

Don't rise to it.

"End of Line." The phrase was most famously used by the Master Control Program in TRON. 
It is similar to human phrases like, "End of communication", "That's final", and "That will be all".

There's no way he picked it absent of thought for our unofficial catch cry 'hold the line'. I thought it was somewhat inflammatory as well (throwing sarcasm at already agitated people is always going to be inflammatory) but yes, agreed, don't rise to it.

I don't see how any threads concerning the endings or reactions to them can be considered not to be relevant to the story/campaign but if he's locking that thread for not being story related, then this one is really no different. Any Plan B in the event they start locking our threads?

"End of line" predates "hold the line"  by approximately 25 years. I have been using it for at least 9 years, since before Mass Effect 1. It is an homage to the Mster Control Program in the 1982 Disny movie "Tron," not a dig at anyone's cause or protest movement. If you believe it is inflammatory, then I would suggest that you're overthinking things and should perhaps learn a little more about me and the movie I am referencing.

Threads are locked if they are not story and campaign related. Since we already have a couple of threads discussing the protest movement, new threads discussing only the protest movement or addressing the protest movement will likelt be locked. This is not decret information, and I would have gladly told you all of this had you but asked in a private message. Jumping to conclusions and crafting conspiracy theories based on half-considered circumstantial evidence does none of us--least of all your "cause"--any good.

thank you.

The way he finger quotes "cause" reminds me of Councilor Sparatus. 

Ah yes, the "retake Movement" a collection of disgruntled Bioware fans allegedly petitioning us to alter our ending.  We have since dismissed that claim.

=sigh= ...and thank you for taking the time to explain.
Please everyone. Can we show some courtesy and civility here?

His point was fair and civilly made. Can you show some courtesy and accept some people are offended by things that don't offend you? I was kind of irked at "Cause" as well. Not enough to post about it, but I certainly see where the guy was coming from. It came across as condescending.

No, it was neither fair nor civil, IMO, while on the other hand the moderator's impatience was understandable given some of the posts he'd just read here. Like I said, he would have been perfectly within forum guidelines to have locked the thread.

I have to say this now, and everyone's reaction to it is their own, but I hope you understand it's coming from a desire for unity and a concern for our reputation.

I've been a part of this outcry since some of the very first posts. I'm all in. But everyone's getting tired and civility is suffering. I know it's slow. I know it's frustrating. But there's never a good reason to take pot shots at a moderator. The bottom line is that we're here at their pleasure. If you feel offended by a moderator, that's fine. I'm not invalidating your feelings. But it's probably more productive to either let it slide or take it up with the moderator in a PM. I've found them to be approachable and reasonable.

If saying this draws fire, so be it. But we can't claim to the public that civility is important to us, then choose not to exercise it when we interact with BioWare employees. If you can't see being civil for civility's sake, consider it part of a smart PR campaign.

[Syrellaris]

Carnage752 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Specify. Are both centered around the indoctrination theory?

Not sure what you mean by specify. It was a) Bioware either releases A DLC to proof to you all the ending was planned and they had further plans, showing it was indoctrination  or they didnt finish the DLC yet, even april and release a press statement saying the Theory is correct and that future expansion DLC will be incoming soon.

Both the same thing, different format.

[The Almighty Ali]

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

[sabasebatyne]

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

My feelings on this are mixed. On the one hand, it would be great to send off Shepard and co. properly. However, if at this point it is revealed that "Hey, we were just ****ing with ya, have some DLC. U mad?," I would be appropriately incensed. This is only because they have neglected to give any straight answers so far concerning the validity of the endings. While I am aware that some have interpreted Casey Hudson's comments to mean that he and the dev. team are perfectly happy with the endings, that the endings are intentional, and that the endings are final, it is far from certain that this is the case. However, If BW planned for everything to occur this way from the start, and then to swoop in with "resolution DLC," it seems to have backfired.