9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Carnage752]

Hydralysk wrote...

Lil One wrote...

As for that anti-retakeem3 group, what I find sad is that they cannot accept that not everyone feel the same way they do, that no other opinion than theirs is correct.

I really don't mean to be rude, but I'm pretty sure that's how they feel about us.

Ahhh irony.

Remain civil in any dealings with them. This will weaken them if neccesarry. That's all I can say.

[Syrellaris]

Bachuck wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Hello Syrellaris,

This thread is specifically for discussing the public relations tactics that EA/Bioware are employing on the community in response to the negative fan reaction. A question like the one you posed, which while valid, can also unintentionally derail this thread into a completely different topic.

Would you be so kind as to make a new thread in the forum to discuss that issue? It would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you.
BaChuck

They both fit. Ending discussion feeds into why people dislike the ending and Why they have the bad fan reactions as you say it. I am merely asking what would happen if bioware announces, which is still part of the fan reaction.

So it does fit here.

[mmdestiny]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

It doesn't matter what combinations of reasons it is, if they want to make a new ending, because they feel the fans are right, and Mass Effect deserves better, then it's fine.

I guess, in easier words, you can't force someone to make new art. You can say "This sucks" and then inspire them to revise it, but you can't force it.

I think many here actually agree with you.

It's not so much about forcing our opinion on them. The way I see it, it's more about pointing out why it's in their best interest to change the ending, because it objectively contradicts, even invalidates much of their own creation.

Bottom line; we're not saying "Your picture sucks", but we're saying "Hey, there's a big stain on your otherwise great picture that you've overlooked. Might wanna fix that"

This.  THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

If we're going to label video games as art, which I personally do, then we have to hold video games to the same standard as art.  No art should be made without the express expectation of criticism, and no artist worth their salt will throw constructive criticism out the window.   Bioware claims that they are listening to the feedback.  That's great, that's the first step.  I feel though that just because video games are made by large companies doesn't make them immune to the necessity of acting on constructive criticism though, and financially, it shouldn't, when they are making art with the EXPRESS intention of making money off of it.

Yes I want the endings extrapolated (and I think that should be the word the Movement uses, instead of "changed).  Is Bioware REQUIRED to do so?  No.  Is it good artistic practice (as well as sound financial advice to) to do so?  I'd say yes.  

[sabasebatyne]

Also, just because they release a patch/DLC at this point doesn't mean that they always planned it this way from the start, naturally. It could obviously be as simple as a response to fan criticism ala Fallout 3.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

jojimbo wrote...

trouble is, theyre sitting aloof, and with all the "end-fanboiz" posts could be a counter attack is already in play.

Well I wouldn't worry about it.  Bioware is worried about losing our money if we refuse to touch their stuff no matter what until an ending is released we will win.  Imagine how this looks to casual gamers,if the hard core fans are up in arms this much the game's ending must really suck and not be worth their money. That is what I am hearing from the people I talk to any way.  Just stick together no matter what is said here,in the media,or on facebook. Yes bioware is going to attack us and attack us hard for the next month or two but in the end you need out money so if we with hold that we will win in the end. This will not be a quick victory but if we don't give up it will be a victory.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[ReavousX]

Checking in, looks like this thread is full speed ahead this Monday.

On FTC guy, good intentions, so I'm not going to unload on him...but any sort of action like that against Bioware isn't the direction we should go in, and that seems to be what the vast majority of us believe.

As for this ending/artistic integrity debate going on. Bioware through artistic integrity out the window when they churned out the ending we got in ME3 due to EA's deadlines. Love em', but that's how I feel about that.

[Carnage752]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

We need to make sure this is NOT associated with us. If you happen to see it. Urge the owner to close it. Also state we do not associate with such people.

[Kioux]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I havent beat the game yet, but without spoilers, how bad is the ending exactly? I mean I know how the community can overreact sometimes(no offence, and I'm not saying anyone here is) but it seems a little far fetched to me that Bioware such a bad ending that theres not one good thing to say about it.

Anyways if it is that bad, should I just wait to beat the game until the "new" ending they apparently plan on making is released or get the new ending in a second playthrough?

I thought that at the beginning - "It can't be that bad, can it?" I for myself was proven wrong and like many others here, I am not sure what to say. On the one hand I would tell you to see the ending and come up with your own opinion - who knows, maybe you actually like it. On the other hand, I wanna save you from the same disappointment that I experienced.

But if you are planning to finish the game anyway - you might as well finish it now, see what bothers us, make up your mind and maybe join us as another active voice.

[Agamemnon2589]

lanep25 wrote...

A little humor relief! Smile!

I lolled hard tuff. XD

[Salyut]

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

I agree. Death threats are never okay. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's a very tasteless one.

[Bachuck]

Syrellaris wrote...

Bachuck wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

1 serious question, what if bioware comes up with a big DLC expansion next month or perhaps a small post saying that the Indoctrination is what really happened and that thus the story aint finished yet. (Regardless, the indoctrination theory seems to be real, there is simply to much evidence and facts stating that it is true)

How will you all feel?

Hello Syrellaris,

This thread is specifically for discussing the public relations tactics that EA/Bioware are employing on the community in response to the negative fan reaction. A question like the one you posed, which while valid, can also unintentionally derail this thread into a completely different topic.

Would you be so kind as to make a new thread in the forum to discuss that issue? It would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you.
BaChuck

They both fit. Ending discussion feeds into why people dislike the ending and Why they have the bad fan reactions as you say it. I am merely asking what would happen if bioware announces, which is still part of the fan reaction.

So it does fit here.

While negative fan reaction does feed into how EA/Bioware will respond, your question is not specifically about their public relations tactics. There are already numerous threads on the boards asking that very same question and I am asking you, politely, to please not post content that can derail the thread.

[Syrellaris]

Salyut wrote...

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

I agree. Death threats are never okay. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's a very tasteless one.

Death threats are punishable by jail sentence of atleast 2-5 years depending on how serious it was meant.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Thanx to everyone who replied, I think what I'll do is just beat it once to see the "bad" ending, and save just before the "point of no return" so when the new ending comes out I can experience it without playing through the whole game again. (hopefully that'll work)

[sabasebatyne]

Syrellaris wrote...

Salyut wrote...

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

I agree. Death threats are never okay. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's a very tasteless one.

Death threats are punishable by jail sentence of atleast 2-5 years depending on how serious it was meant.

Agreed. No need to rehash Neon Genesis Evangelion territory here.

[cApAc aMaRu]

Syrellaris wrote...

Salyut wrote...

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

I agree. Death threats are never okay. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's a very tasteless one.

Death threats are punishable by jail sentence of atleast 2-5 years depending on how serious it was meant.

Bioware is going to die someday, because EA's modus operandi is to run their developers into the ground.

[Fattness132]

Kioux wrote...

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

I havent beat the game yet, but without spoilers, how bad is the ending exactly? I mean I know how the community can overreact sometimes(no offence, and I'm not saying anyone here is) but it seems a little far fetched to me that Bioware such a bad ending that theres not one good thing to say about it.

Anyways if it is that bad, should I just wait to beat the game until the "new" ending they apparently plan on making is released or get the new ending in a second playthrough?

I thought that at the beginning - "It can't be that bad, can it?" I for myself was proven wrong and like many others here, I am not sure what to say. On the one hand I would tell you to see the ending and come up with your own opinion - who knows, maybe you actually like it. On the other hand, I wanna save you from the same disappointment that I experienced.

But if you are planning to finish the game anyway - you might as well finish it now, see what bothers us, make up your mind and maybe join us as another active voice.

I think this pic explains the "it cant be that bad" position people had.

http://www.photoshac...18/me3morph.gif

Modifié par Fattness132, 19 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[Carnage752]

@Capac amaru
If you are going to continue such negative dialogue, can you please take it elsewhere? Thank you.

[mmdestiny]

Salyut wrote...

The Almighty Ali wrote...

Just a small FYI, I recieved a PM from a member with a link to youtube.
It was a link to a song entitled "Bioware you're gonna die some day"
This is counter productive and if possible I'd like those that agree that using a death threat is not something we should use nor encourage and remind them of this.

Granted it's a result of anger but I don't see any constructive coming from it.

I agree. Death threats are never okay. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's a very tasteless one.

I've said it before when it came up with that thread last night about what happened last night with that Twitter/Facebook message, and I'll say it again now.  Do not even draw attention to things like that.  Yes, they're very counterproductive to the Movement.  Yes, in some ways, we do need to ensure that it is known we have no affilations with BS like that.  

But I'd also be concerned about haphazardly bringing it up in discussion too, because before you know it, discussion gets derailed, organization suffers, and we have people ranting about how terrible human nature can be, and the only thing an outsider who HAD been curious about the Movement will see is a wave of text about very negative things that don't even define US.

[sabasebatyne]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Bioware is going to die someday, because EA's modus operandi is to run their developers into the ground.

EA's MO with other devs. aside, I still think this isn't the right tone to take with our criticism.

Modifié par sabasebatyne, 19 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[Carnage752]

@nmdestiny
Well said. I agree

[SuperTeal]

Deflagratio wrote...

I consider it a violation of the Artistic Integrity of Mass Effect if they create a new ending just because the consumer demands it.

Mass Effect as a series is a video game - it is a consumer entertainment product.  It is not an art film.  Because it is a video game it requires the consumer to interact with it directly - as opposed to indirectly (such as a film.)  Mass Effect is also unique as a video game in that it requires the consumer to make choices that have a direct effect on the overall story (up until the end.)

The consumer has every right to demand changes to Mass Effect 3's ending, because the ending represents a key portion of the game's story mechanic, which should involve choice.  The ending features almost no repercussion of choice - this creates a major problem for the Mass Effect product, because one of the primary selling points of the ME brand is the choices you get to make - and the effects the have on not only yourself and your squad, but the entire Milky Way.  If the ending does not factor in any of the choices we've made throughout the series then it doesn't meet consumer expectations - nor does it meet the promises made by developers for over two years.

I studied film production and story design for my undergraduate degree - so I know very well what artistic integrity is about.  The flaw with arguing that artistic integrity should stop the end from being changed is this:  Mass Effect 3 is not an art film or a literary masterpiece - it is an action/RPG video game with the soul purpose of pleasing fans and making money for shareholders.  If it does not please fans, then there is the chance that it won't make as much money as was expected by the CFO of Bioware/EA, and if that happens the shareholders become disappointed.  It is in everyone’s best interest for the ending to be tweaked via DLC.

If they choose not to make any changes, or even explain themselves as to the poor nature of the endings development, then Bioware signs a sort of "artistic integrity death sentence” They will lose a largely important portion of their fanbase: the ones that are concerned about the artistic integrity of their games.  That loss of a fan base will diminish any artistic integrity they hope to have, because they'll be forced to appease to a more mass consumer base - and I can tell you right now that mass consumer bases know nothing of artistic integrity, nor do they care.

So contrary to your argument, I think the most important thing for them to do is to change the ending - because we the fans and the consumers want to keep the story and integrity of the Mass Effect series intact.  With the current ending the artistic integrity and the story integrity are greatly compromised.

Modifié par SuperTeal, 19 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[ArmyKnifeX]

sabasebatyne wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Bioware is going to die someday, because EA's modus operandi is to run their developers into the ground.

EA's MO with other devs. aside, I still think this isn't the right tone to take with our criticism.

It really isn't. Besides I don't think any of us actually WANT to see the high quality BW games to die. If we weren't so invested in seeing this company and their franchises continue we wouldn't be so passionate about the ME3 ending and having it changed.

And I think that's one of the messages we need to get across as strongly as possible. We're doing this out of love - for Mass Effect and for BioWare.

I would like to point out that EA does have a tendency to throw dev studios into the meat grinder, but that's a completely separate issue for the time being.

Modifié par ArmyKnifeX, 19 mars 2012 - 07:07 .