9972 réponses à ce sujet

[sabasebatyne]

Gah, didn't refresh quickly enough! lol

[LinksOcarina]

Optimus J wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Uh...they don't do that anymore.

They merged three companies into BioWare over the past three years, and have pretty much made it their RPG/RTS wing of the company. It also helps that Dr. Ray Mayzuka is now a member of the board of EA Games, which also houses Danger Close, Visceral Studios, Criteron Games, EA Black Box, and DICE. 

These are the guys making RPGs, RTSs, Racing, Shooters and Action titles. They have EA Play, the casual market stuff, and EA Sports, seperate. 

Honestly, EA has a very respectable corporate structure, it gives quasi-autonomy to their studios without bleeding them into one another too much. Of course when a studio grows like BioWare, which merged with Mythic and Victory Games, it may not look good from afar, but consider this; Victory was launched to work on the Command and Conquer liscence in 2010, so it made more sense to give them higher name recognition. It showed confidence in BioWares abilities with the game, even though its their first foray outside of an RPG since MDK 2. 
 
This is a better structure for a large-scale company in many pockets. This is a better model than say, Activision, which has over a dozen different studios under its helm and pretty much orders them to make something that may or may not be within the confines of their respected talents. For example, Neversoft moved from making the Tony Hawk games to Guitar Hero in 2007 after Harmonix signed a deal with EA. And they held that jointly with Vicarious Visions who developed games for three different systems simultaneously for them. If anything, Activision is more akin to what EA did, only without good structure or competant development teams behind it. 

So I wouldn't knock the corporate structure much.

EA  is at the deepest analysis a greed bastard company at the core, but as one onion have multiple layers.And I have to agree that those layers give such freedom to studios that it turns to a huge success.

The problem we are facing here is that ONE of those studios covered itself with hubris and is more worried with maintaining their own opinion,no matter how most of the world say they can't FORCE IT into other. And they keep fighting to force it, with little regard of the consequences over themselves, over the customers,and ABOVE ALL THINGS the company.

This situation is already splashing over all studios. The price drop people say that ALREADY happened to ME3 is in fact over a MULTITUDE of titles of EA, so they can generate a faux selling report to appease their shareholders.

What scare me the most isn't the disregard of Bioware about the players. atghunter have way more profound analysis on that. What REALLY scare me is that out of his hubris in what he consider artistic integrity, Casey is willing to go to ANY measures to protect the Deus-ex rip-off he thinks it's a homage to his favorite game, in the end of ME3.

And what's been scaring me even more this Monday is how tight his team is with him, willing to sacrifices themselves for his cause.

And then come my relief that EA is company that envision PROFIT. The fact that ultimately our side gives EA that goal and Bioware's side take it from them, I say "HURRAY FOR CAPITALISM!"

And that is bad for the artist to consider their art precious?

It may a failure for commercial art, but you can't fault the artist for defending it, just like I can't fault George Lucas for changing the Star Wars movies. I may not like it, but he has the right to do so, even if it doesn't make sense.

So while it may be hubris, its still his right to do so since he created the game with his team.  It is still  his game if the EULA was enforeced to the letter of the law, which is why this is a very interesting precedent that is occuring...

[SuperTeal]

Razorsteel wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

look at this video (IGN): http://youtu.be/tm-OtQNJVEg?t=2m15s

we have to stay civil you say...

Ea gives them AD dollars and throws one of their own into the game. They want to protect their interest.
So they put this infantile stuff up on youtube to get you fired up. Don't fall for it. This is part of the game to smear us.
Don't fall for those "Jedi" mind tricks.

Sith mind tricks....  <_<

[Beti88]

Sentr0 wrote...

look at this video (IGN): http://youtu.be/tm-OtQNJVEg?t=2m15s

we have to stay civil you say...

My shovel... Where is my shovel?!

BLAM BLAM BLAM

[ArmyKnifeX]

MeldarthX wrote...

I'd agree with you - but going by EA's own statements - Video Games are not art; they are business.

EA isn't the authority on what is and what isn't art. Though if you look back to their corporate stance from wayyyy back in the 80s when they got started, they named their company Electronic Arts because they, most importantly above all, viewed themselves as artists and video games as a new medium, capable of being as strong as any other artistic medium.

For them to have so radically changed stances, if they released such a statement, is a truly sad state of affairs.

As I said in my earlier post, if BioWare are truly happy and think that the ending stands on its own without any weakness and is bulletproof as a work of art, they aren't obligated to listen to us. It may well be that our RetakeME movement is giving the dissenters in BioWare credence, if they exist, and it may be that our critiques are pointing out the flaws they don't wish to have in their work.

Don't forget that every artist has to deal with critiques and criticisms, sometimes FAR harsher ones than we're giving BioWare. If, because of these critiques, an artist wishes to change their piece that does not detract from the piece. My brother went through one fo the toughest critique educations at his university, and I can strongly say that changing your work to make it better because of good criticisms does not undermine its value in any way.

[ReavousX]

Corrik Ronis wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

TurambarEA wrote...

Volion wrote...

Noatz wrote...

I like how Stanley Woo is saying "End of Line." whenever he locks a thread.

This could just be an ironic turn of phrase, but it is also possible he is doing it specifically to try and get under people's skin.

Don't rise to it.

"End of Line." The phrase was most famously used by the Master Control Program in TRON. 
It is similar to human phrases like, "End of communication", "That's final", and "That will be all".

There's no way he picked it absent of thought for our unofficial catch cry 'hold the line'. I thought it was somewhat inflammatory as well (throwing sarcasm at already agitated people is always going to be inflammatory) but yes, agreed, don't rise to it.

I don't see how any threads concerning the endings or reactions to them can be considered not to be relevant to the story/campaign but if he's locking that thread for not being story related, then this one is really no different. Any Plan B in the event they start locking our threads?

"End of line" predates "hold the line"  by approximately 25 years. I have been using it for at least 9 years, since before Mass Effect 1. It is an homage to the Mster Control Program in the 1982 Disny movie "Tron," not a dig at anyone's cause or protest movement. If you believe it is inflammatory, then I would suggest that you're overthinking things and should perhaps learn a little more about me and the movie I am referencing.

Threads are locked if they are not story and campaign related. Since we already have a couple of threads discussing the protest movement, new threads discussing only the protest movement or addressing the protest movement will likelt be locked. This is not decret information, and I would have gladly told you all of this had you but asked in a private message. Jumping to conclusions and crafting conspiracy theories based on half-considered circumstantial evidence does none of us--least of all your "cause"--any good.

thank you.

So can we take the fact that you put cause in quotation marks as inflamitory. It certainly sounds like you are trying to send a message there.

Let it go.  Regardless of what he meant by it, we don't get anything positive out of pressing the issue.

[Xivai]

ReavousX wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

look at this video (IGN): http://youtu.be/tm-OtQNJVEg?t=2m15s

we have to stay civil you say...

I think that's a great video! 

Now, hear me out.

Their own poll has a majority of fans not liking the ending.  They're alienating their own fans/viewers.  That could go horribly for IGN.  So, let them joke and have their fun.  I hope they're saving up that ad money.

A smart post this is. Let them attempt their own damage control and see how it fares.

[Gespenst]

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

So did the operation Goliath work or not I don't know as I have been avoiding my copy of Mass Effect 3. Just seems to me that if Goliath did fail then it shows our movement is being hear AND having a noticable effect on the player base. 

It might have had something to do with the fact that PS3 players could take part.

[Kathris89]

Have any of you seen this? I think it sums up what we are all about pretty well

http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

Remember to keep it civil, be respectful, and hold the line!

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

I find it surprising the IGN continues this behaviour. On the other hand, I do reason that, for them, 'the fans' have become one huge mass, a conglomerate obstacle to be negotiated, instead of real people. As such, they have lost touch with actually being a fan, and instead have become the same kind of distant enterpreneur as the Big Game Companies have.

[SuperTeal]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

MeldarthX wrote...

I'd agree with you - but going by EA's own statements - Video Games are not art; they are business.

EA isn't the authority on what is and what isn't art. Though if you look back to their corporate stance from wayyyy back in the 80s when they got started, they named their company Electronic Arts because they, most importantly above all, viewed themselves as artists and video games as a new medium, capable of being as strong as any other artistic medium.

For them to have so radically changed stances, if they released such a statement, is a truly sad state of affairs.

As I said in my earlier post, if BioWare are truly happy and think that the ending stands on its own without any weakness and is bulletproof as a work of art, they aren't obligated to listen to us. It may well be that our RetakeME movement is giving the dissenters in BioWare credence, if they exist, and it may be that our critiques are pointing out the flaws they don't wish to have in their work.

Don't forget that every artist has to deal with critiques and criticisms, sometimes FAR harsher ones than we're giving BioWare. If, because of these critiques, an artist wishes to change their piece that does not detract from the piece. My brother went through one fo the toughest critique educations at his university, and I can strongly say that changing your work to make it better because of good criticisms does not undermine its value in any way.

But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one.  The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers.  They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.

We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product.  The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised.  That's it.  It is business.

Modifié par SuperTeal, 19 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[ArmyKnifeX]

ReavousX wrote...

Let it go.  Regardless of what he meant by it, we don't get anything positive out of pressing the issue.

Agreed. We're still posting on their boards and several of these threads are in fact wildly off-topic. The fact that they're even permitting the existance of a thread like this one is mind-blowing and I think says a lot about BioWare. It's a tacit agreement that we fans have legitimate grievances.

[Fallenfromthesky]

Sentr0 wrote...

look at this video (IGN): http://youtu.be/tm-OtQNJVEg?t=2m15s

we have to stay civil you say...

I watched this video and honesly its just wrong. We are not a band of vilagers rampaging down to the castle frankenstein to destroy a misunderstood monster, we are trying to help said monster change to be liked by everyone.

Finally to IGN we are making an effort to remain civil and as a whole we are receptive to different opinions but please give us that same respect and even if you don't agree with out view don't slam us for it makes you seem like the wild foaming at the mouth minority. that said no matter what we will continue to air our views as politly and as respectfully as possible.

Hold the Line 

[B33ker]

Don't know if this was posted yet, but it's a good chuckle to break the tension.

Unnecessary Censorship in Video Games: Mass Effect 3



If you want to show them how you really feel, vote with your wallet, it's the only thing they understand and the greatest power we have as consumers. EA is already rich, but don't make them richer by rewarding the sort of crap they've handed us this time around.

[Qwd666]

Harbing3r wrote...

The most common theme I'm seeing in the arguments against us (along with words like 'whiny' and 'entitled') is the notion of artistic integrity ie that we can't demand an artist change their art.

I just don't think this argument flies with added multiplayer, day 1 DLC, purchasable content for multiplayer etc

I think there are some marvelously talented and artistic people at Bioware and this campaign is to let them express themselves more than that travesty of an ending allowed them to.

As I see it, a game is not an art OR a product. It is BOTH. That way it's true we have to respect the creation of BW, but they have to listen to the costumers who intend to buy this or any other games they make as well.
It's simple for me: 1) They are willing to defend their oppinion and leave this (as they see) perfect game as it is
2) They realy listen and realise they made mistakes, try to setisfy us and therefore (re)gain our trust

[Fallenfromthesky]

Gespenst wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

So did the operation Goliath work or not I don't know as I have been avoiding my copy of Mass Effect 3. Just seems to me that if Goliath did fail then it shows our movement is being hear AND having a noticable effect on the player base. 

It might have had something to do with the fact that PS3 players could take part.

True that did remove a fair chunk of the statistics but still we can hoope that we are having at least some sort of effect

Hold the Line

[ArmyKnifeX]

SuperTeal wrote...

But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one.  The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers.  They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.

We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product.  The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised.  That's it.  It is business.

Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.

ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.

I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.

[Vap0ur_Snake]

Sorry, quoted the wrong person. Someone delete this please. 

Modifié par Vap0ur_Snake, 19 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[happy_diplomat]

I think the end decision is either an extended ending or just plain content dlc. However, if the ending is not extended, or if there was never a plan to fully end the game, ra/bioware will lose its core market no matter what pr tactics they use.

[SkaldFish]

vigna wrote...

Rulycar wrote...

Gaming in Entertainmet said
The negativity of the Mass Effect 3 ending will still not go away and we have since learned that fans have now pledged to donate $53,000 to charity if Bioware agree to change the ending – don’t know whether to say this is a nice gesture or an underhanded tactic to get the developers to make a change to the ending of ME3?

http://www.inenterta...nges-the-rules/

I really hope they rewrite this terrible misrepresentation.

Isn't it already donated whether BW changes it or not? Ugghhhh

Yes, they make it sound like some sort of blackmail. Argh.

[Mister Mida]

Can't people just ignore IGN?

[Fulgrim88]

maki0129 wrote...

Let us all please refrain from attacking moderators, or really people in general.

The reason why this movement has been working, is not only because of sheer numbers, but because we have been able to keep a significant measure of civility in our discontent. Let us try not to taint that by reducing this whole thing to a nasty flame war.

Let's keep calm, and keep voicing our opinions and our discontent, with our wallets, with our input, with our feedback, but most importantly with RESPECT.

Quoted for truth

Everyone be civil. Take a step outside.

This'll be won by patience and respect, not by rage

[beccathelion]

Mister Mida wrote...

Can't people just ignore IGN?

We can dream.

[Boceephus]

Mister Mida wrote...

Can't people just ignore IGN?

I'm with this guy. Clicking on their pages to rage at them just make their page counts go up and encourage them to act like ignorant children even more.

It's like Paul Anka said "JUST DON'T LOOK, JUST DON'T LOOK" and they'll go back to hyping some other AAA game to get more swag.

[Bachuck]

Sentr0 wrote...

look at this video (IGN): http://youtu.be/tm-OtQNJVEg?t=2m15s

we have to stay civil you say...

There's nothing insulting about that video as it's too childish to be taken seriously. It's only purpose is to demean and mock the movement (and placate their advertisers), but what they don't understand is that IGN is promoted as a professional video gaming site. Content of that nature only serves to hurt their image already more than it has been. In the future, will you consider them to be an objective source (assuming you did in the first place)? Will you subscribe to their premium site? Remember these times because it's filled with knowledge some people didn't posses before. Furthermore, as ReavousX stated, IGN's own poll has fans disagreeing with them, so truly, who looks the fool here?