9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Shavyer]

Oh come on, this is not like George Lucas changing the star wars films every time he can, (without anyone asking for it by the way) we want a DLC to change the ending, if you're happy with the actual one don't buy the dlc, but let us have what we want, what damage can do that? "oh, the art is now a tool of the money... bla bla bla" there are people that want a free dlc ending, I agree, but if it not possible for free then i'll gladly pay for it, but if i have to pay, i want a very very well done ending.

Hold the Line.

[Necroscope]

Fans strikes back:

Modifié par Necroscope, 19 mars 2012 - 08:29 .

[Humanwreck]

Been trying to catch up with the thread for the whole day, but I just can´t read as fast as people are posting. I did my part for the letter drive today by sending a letter and my N7 patch from the N7 edition to Bioware.

The points I gave out in my letter were that I had been a Bioware fan for a long time and when Mass Effect 1 was released I was hooked instantly. The addition of the patch was a hard one as I had actually planned on using it but it just felt hollow to me. "Being" N7 didn´t hold any weight to me anymore. I´m still shocked have badly the last few percent of a otherwise incredible sci-fi series can eat at me so badly.

I just had to post before heading to bed I have a test tomorrow on different laws that affect your work as a security guard. Finland is holding the line

[komoshi]

In a way, I believe BioWare is in an amazing position right now. But only if they don't drop the (2nd) ball.

If you think about it, they can use the Indoctrination Theory (Which many agree that it's a very clever way to 'tell' a story to the gamer, like meta-clever) and give the fans a sigh of relief.

They can claim that it was their intention all along. (And all the misdirection and silence was to emphasize the point - Which honestly, I don't really know if it was REALLY intended by a 'play by the books' EA, but many seem to think that it's possible with BioWare. So, they can still kind of get away with it.)

Even if they don't use the Indoctrination Theory, they can still release something that is of quality closure (and hopefully free to show good measure) to please their hardcore fans and show them (and the press) that they are a company that really care about their relationship with their audience.

Either way they can really win this.

And I'm sure EA/BioWare is aware, and they may think they still hold most of their cards.
But what I do think is that they're underestimating how volatile the situation is actually at hand.

If they choose to delay too long, I think all of that 'upper hand' I just wrote about will not matter since they would be missing a crucial timing.

I personally think, had they have at least threw us a bone about the matter (vs. just silence), and actually made at least some statement at the not-so-kind responses from the major article websites, it wouldn't have been THIS negative... But I suppose the damage is done.

Kind of also makes me wonder if EA/BioWare got a tad impatient with this game, with the DLC, and (in my opinion) their poor handling with the majority's response with the ending.

Since it launched at early March. With the fiscal year ending at the end of the month… It must’ve been very tempting to rack up just a few more dollars in the reports. (And omit the negativity about the ending, at least until the end of March)

It’s just me speculating, but based on some of the other people’s post about how the fiscal year works… I also think being surprisingly silent about the whole matter (in the expense of more frustrated fans) is also part of it.

Bad official press must look unappealing to investors, but I don't know if they are looking at the long term matter of bad impression from their most loyal fans.

[SuperTeal]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

 I havent beat the game yet(so no outright spoilers pls) but I heard ME3's ending is similar to Halo 3's Legendary Ending.....some ppl hated that ending at the time but look what Bungie(343) really had planned.

I know Bioware said this is the end of Shepard's story, but you never know.

Halo 3's ending and Mass Effect 3's ending are actually good things to compare.  Because ME 3 did the same kind of ending very poorly - gave you no closure - and produced no intelligent thought.

Halo 3 on the otherhand - although people were angry - produced a lot of good thought and didn't result in anyone screaming for a new ending.  We all knew that something similar was going to go down.  Oh and by the way - the ending video of Halo 3 did a lot more to close the story than ME3's ending video.

And 343 industrys hadn't planned anything at that point.  Halo 3 really was supposed to be the end of Master Chiefs storyline.  They resurrected his story to make money - plain and simple.

Modifié par SuperTeal, 19 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Syrellaris]

Necroscope wrote...

Fans strikes back:

and yet that wasn't funny at all, just a boring repeating crappy made video =/ with one hell of a bad sound track on it. God my ears!

[vigna]

Humanwreck wrote...

Been trying to catch up with the thread for the whole day, but I just can´t read as fast as people are posting. I did my part for the letter drive today by sending a letter and my N7 patch from the N7 edition to Bioware.

The points I gave out in my letter were that I had been a Bioware fan for a long time and when Mass Effect 1 was released I was hooked instantly. The addition of the patch was a hard one as I had actually planned on using it but it just felt hollow to me. "Being" N7 didn´t hold any weight to me anymore. I´m still shocked have badly the last few percent of a otherwise incredible sci-fi series can eat at me so badly.

I just had to post before heading to bed I have a test tomorrow on different laws that affect your work as a security guard. Finland is holding the line

That's awesome send them your CE patch and ask for a game patch in return! Beautiful!

[Lupus Canivus]

Marcin R wrote...

has everyone seen this? click

Thanks, a very interesting and well written article. I hope that "atghunter" - glad he is with us - gets to read it.

As for IGN, well what can you say - the less the better.

Hold the line!

[jellobell]

shygravel wrote...

It's all together disheartening that its other media outlets that are spurning us with negative, derisive, and sometimes offensive comments while so much of the Retake Mass Effect movement has been uplifting in its desire to take the 'high road'. I know I was immediately willing to join up when I saw the simple - and beautiful - idea of the Childs Play drive as a way to show that we're serious and conscientious.

And then I read articles like this:
http://www.inenterta...nges-the-rules/

With lines like this:
"There are so many ways to look at the end of Mass Effect 3 and some gamers who seem to have a deeper understanding of life believe that what Bioware done was a perfect way to end the journey of Shepard..."
Seriously? I'm a well educated 30-year-old mother of two young sons; wife of an active duty Marine. I dislike the ME3 ending. I believe it to be riddled with plot holes and weak literary devices. I believe it provides a deeper sense of confusion and disillusionment than it does any amount of 'pragmatic' realism or closure. And that means I do not have a "deeper understanding of life"?

It's articles like that which make me all the more determined to keep pointing out that what I want (and I think most of us want) is precisely what the current ending does not provide: A greater sense of continuity and in-game realism that stays true to the IP and universe it started five years ago. Not some cliche idea that 'life isn't fair' so we are only 'pragmatic' if we choose to swallow a nonsensical ending that leaves us feeling helpless and manipulated. Life isn't about fairness or the lack thereof, life is about what we as individuals and a community are willing to make of it. I for one still believe the ME writers are fully capable of delivering an ending - or additions/fixes to the current ending - that prove just how progressive, fulfilling and jointly enjoyable a true collaborative effort can be.

And yes... still holding the line.
Right behind Marauder Shields

*thumbs up* Totally agree, Shy. It really seems like Bioware didn't know what to do with the endings (thus LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE). Well we know what we want, and all we can do now is tell them.

[Lupus Canivus]

 https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true#


Sorry, this is the article.

[Vap0ur_Snake]

SuperTeal wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

SuperTeal wrote...

But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one.  The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers.  They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.

We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product.  The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised.  That's it.  It is business.

Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.

ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.

I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.

You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story.  If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward.  As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.

That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.

My point is that there is no "art issue."  Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development.  The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.

Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child. 

Modifié par Vap0ur_Snake, 19 mars 2012 - 08:36 .

[Carnage752]

shygravel wrote...

It's all together disheartening that its other media outlets that are spurning us with negative, derisive, and sometimes offensive comments while so much of the Retake Mass Effect movement has been uplifting in its desire to take the 'high road'. I know I was immediately willing to join up when I saw the simple - and beautiful - idea of the Childs Play drive as a way to show that we're serious and conscientious.

And then I read articles like this:
http://www.inenterta...nges-the-rules/

With lines like this:
"There are so many ways to look at the end of Mass Effect 3 and some gamers who seem to have a deeper understanding of life believe that what Bioware done was a perfect way to end the journey of Shepard..."
Seriously? I'm a well educated 30-year-old mother of two young sons; wife of an active duty Marine. I dislike the ME3 ending. I believe it to be riddled with plot holes and weak literary devices. I believe it provides a deeper sense of confusion and disillusionment than it does any amount of 'pragmatic' realism or closure. And that means I do not have a "deeper understanding of life"?

It's articles like that which make me all the more determined to keep pointing out that what I want (and I think most of us want) is precisely what the current ending does not provide: A greater sense of continuity and in-game realism that stays true to the IP and universe it started five years ago. Not some cliche idea that 'life isn't fair' so we are only 'pragmatic' if we choose to swallow a nonsensical ending that leaves us feeling helpless and manipulated. Life isn't about fairness or the lack thereof, life is about what we as individuals and a community are willing to make of it. I for one still believe the ME writers are fully capable of delivering an ending - or additions/fixes to the current ending - that prove just how progressive, fulfilling and jointly enjoyable a true collaborative effort can be.

And yes... still holding the line.
Right behind Marauder Shields

They want to antagonize us. We keep showing them civillity and don't bite into thier traps, we will be fine.

Hold the line men! Hold the line!

[CommanderConnor]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

 I havent beat the game yet(so no outright spoilers pls) but I heard ME3's ending is similar to Halo 3's Legendary Ending.....some ppl hated that ending at the time but look what Bungie(343) really had planned.

I know Bioware said this is the end of Shepard's story, but you never know.

Could the aversion to talking about the ending on Bioware's part be because they don't want to announce the next game yet? lol

[Vergil_dgk]

Great thread. I can't believe I managed to get through all those WoTs on the first page. However, I find myself nodding along in agreement to most of them: I don't hate Bioware - in fact, they have long been a big part of my life as a gamer. I don't hate the people who created Mass Effect 1+2 - those are great games. I don't even hate whoever wrote the bad ending to 3 - everyone makes mistakes! I'm a writer (though not in the English language) and I've certainly made many mistakes due to fatigue/inexperience/misguided enthusiasm. That said, I really do think the ending to this series is a real shame. It just does not do it justice. I'm convinced this is not a case of ordinary people not catching on to a great artist's vision in his own lifetime, but rather the result of a spectacular creative miscalculation probably made under pressure. I hope to get a new ending and will support the movement - but I'm not turning against Bioware as a company. I won't purchase more DLC for Mass Effect unless they adress the ending - not because I don't like Mass Effect, but because I just can't see the point to playing as Shepard while this ending is canon. It's that bad.

Modifié par Vergil_dgk, 19 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[Carnage752]

Syrellaris wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

Fans strikes back:

and yet that wasn't funny at all, just a boring repeating crappy made video =/ with one hell of a bad sound track on it. God my ears!

There will always be angry, immature people. I hope you have seen that most of the movement trys and mostly succeeds to be civil.

[Syrellaris]

Vap0ur_Snake wrote...

SuperTeal wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

SuperTeal wrote...

But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one.  The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers.  They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.

We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product.  The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised.  That's it.  It is business.

Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.

ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.

I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.

You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story.  If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward.  As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.

That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.

My point is that there is no "art issue."  Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development.  The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.

Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child. 

Or they didn't lie and left us with a cliffhanger for future DLC. its not uncommon practice to be honest.

[Leafs43]

PR team has extended the olive branch.

EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.

Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.


We are winning.

Modifié par Leafs43, 19 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[fainmaca]

Just one thing I thought I should bring to the attention of the thread, may or may not be related to the endings scandal:

I just got an e-mail from Bioware with regards to my TOR account. Due to work, I have been offline for maybe two weeks now, and I get this e-mail encouraging me to come back online (Not cancelled my sub, just not logged in), with the tagline 'Mako misses the adventure.....'

I don't know about you, but this seems strange to me considering I'm still a subscribing customer. It feels to me like they need people to get online to help swell dwindling numbers or something.

Maybe they are feeling the pinch?

I'd love to hear thoughts on this observation.

Fainmaca out.

[Stadred]

I do hope that they will correct the ending, and do their best to talk straight about the issues we've raised. I bought an X-Box because of this game, and later the xbox slim and a even a kinect for ME3... So it can easily be said that their actions represent my wallet opening for ancillary companies.

But on a personal note, I want them to make good on their promises. We've all seen the list of what was promised (Wildly varied endings, and not simply A, B, or C), and I'd like to actually see such a game!

[Carnage752]

komoshi wrote...

In a way, I believe BioWare is in an amazing position right now. But only if they don't drop the (2nd) ball.

If you think about it, they can use the Indoctrination Theory (Which many agree that it's a very clever way to 'tell' a story to the gamer, like meta-clever) and give the fans a sigh of relief.

They can claim that it was their intention all along. (And all the misdirection and silence was to emphasize the point - Which honestly, I don't really know if it was REALLY intended by a 'play by the books' EA, but many seem to think that it's possible with BioWare. So, they can still kind of get away with it.)

Even if they don't use the Indoctrination Theory, they can still release something that is of quality closure (and hopefully free to show good measure) to please their hardcore fans and show them (and the press) that they are a company that really care about their relationship with their audience.

Either way they can really win this.

And I'm sure EA/BioWare is aware, and they may think they still hold most of their cards.
But what I do think is that they're underestimating how volatile the situation is actually at hand.

If they choose to delay too long, I think all of that 'upper hand' I just wrote about will not matter since they would be missing a crucial timing.

I personally think, had they have at least threw us a bone about the matter (vs. just silence), and actually made at least some statement at the not-so-kind responses from the major article websites, it wouldn't have been THIS negative... But I suppose the damage is done.

Kind of also makes me wonder if EA/BioWare got a tad impatient with this game, with the DLC, and (in my opinion) their poor handling with the majority's response with the ending.

Since it launched at early March. With the fiscal year ending at the end of the month… It must’ve been very tempting to rack up just a few more dollars in the reports. (And omit the negativity about the ending, at least until the end of March)

It’s just me speculating, but based on some of the other people’s post about how the fiscal year works… I also think being surprisingly silent about the whole matter (in the expense of more frustrated fans) is also part of it.

Bad official press must look unappealing to investors, but I don't know if they are looking at the long term matter of bad impression from their most loyal fans.

Even if they run with the indoctrination theory, the fact Shepard still runs with the Starchild's plan AFTER breaking indoctrination will be a massive plothole.

[Syrellaris]

Carnage752 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Necroscope wrote...

Fans strikes back:

and yet that wasn't funny at all, just a boring repeating crappy made video =/ with one hell of a bad sound track on it. God my ears!

There will always be angry, immature people. I hope you have seen that most of the movement trys and mostly succeeds to be civil.

oh I wasnt even aware the video was made by movement people, I just thought it was horrible done and not funny. I don't like IGN myself either, but the video they did was quite hilarious. (I watched the entire thing)

[SuperTeal]

CommanderConnor wrote...

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

 I havent beat the game yet(so no outright spoilers pls) but I heard ME3's ending is similar to Halo 3's Legendary Ending.....some ppl hated that ending at the time but look what Bungie(343) really had planned.

I know Bioware said this is the end of Shepard's story, but you never know.

Could the aversion to talking about the ending on Bioware's part be because they don't want to announce the next game yet? lol

I don't think this is the reasoning.  I think what is really going on is they're trying to decide whether to create a development team to make an ending DLC - and if that's worth the money that can be earned.

[Versus Omnibus]

People, listen!! Keep our business with Bioware and EA!! Stay civil and respectful towards them while ignoring those who calls us "whiners" or "entitled", or my favorite one by far: "Terrorists"!! All we want is for Bioware to listen to our feedback and apply it to ME3!

HOLD THE LINE!!

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

Optimus J wrote...

So, Operation Goliath apparently didn't come with the results they were expecting, and people are already pissed off with the preventive excuse that it wasn't a success because people forgot to turn on the on-line tracking.

See what they did there? They can deny people's lack of interest and blame the players on not sending the proper data on the otherwise HUGE success of that "goliath something".

So did the operation Goliath work or not I don't know as I have been avoiding my copy of Mass Effect 3. Just seems to me that if Goliath did fail then it shows our movement is being hear AND having a noticable effect on the player base. 

Well if that is true it may  explain why they seemed so paniced last night and early today.  They can't even tell EA and their stockholders that multiplayer is populare.

One thing I am surprised is not being talked about more is the deal Bioware made to get a Mass effect movie made.  It seems to me if this drags on the studio may become a behind the scenes player that could put presure on Bioware.  After all they want to be sure that the Mass effect brand will still have a fan base in three to five years time when they release the movie.  If I were them I would not be happy with someone doing everything they can to destroy loyalty to a brand I had just paid millions for.

We just have to stick togher and we will win.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

  I'd totally forgot about the rumor of a movie. Surely NO studio would want to be involved in a Mass Effect related project with a large part of the core fanbase alienated (no pun intended). 

If you can't meet your target audience what the point of trying?  

It was in Forbes the deal has been made with one of the production houses at Warner Brother and a script is being written.  WB can't be too happy right now.