Ce sujet est fermé
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
Doesn't make it right. If this was their intention they would have made it clear, or ignore us completely. The fact they are in such a scramble now indicates this was an honest screw up. They would have already confirmed ending DLC.Syrellaris wrote...
Vap0ur_Snake wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
ArmyKnifeX wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one. The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers. They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.
We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product. The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised. That's it. It is business.
Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.
ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.
I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.
You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story. If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward. As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.
That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.
My point is that there is no "art issue." Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development. The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.
Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child.
Or they didn't lie and left us with a cliffhanger for future DLC. its not uncommon practice to be honest.
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
Modifié par Syrellaris, 19 mars 2012 - 08:42 .
Carnage752 wrote...
Even if they run with the indoctrination theory, the fact Shepard still runs with the Starchild's plan AFTER breaking indoctrination will be a massive plothole.komoshi wrote...
In a way, I believe BioWare is in an amazing position right now. But only if they don't drop the (2nd) ball.
If you think about it, they can use the Indoctrination Theory (Which many agree that it's a very clever way to 'tell' a story to the gamer, like meta-clever) and give the fans a sigh of relief.
They can claim that it was their intention all along. (And all the misdirection and silence was to emphasize the point - Which honestly, I don't really know if it was REALLY intended by a 'play by the books' EA, but many seem to think that it's possible with BioWare. So, they can still kind of get away with it.)
Even if they don't use the Indoctrination Theory, they can still release something that is of quality closure (and hopefully free to show good measure) to please their hardcore fans and show them (and the press) that they are a company that really care about their relationship with their audience.
Either way they can really win this.
And I'm sure EA/BioWare is aware, and they may think they still hold most of their cards.
But what I do think is that they're underestimating how volatile the situation is actually at hand.
If they choose to delay too long, I think all of that 'upper hand' I just wrote about will not matter since they would be missing a crucial timing.
I personally think, had they have at least threw us a bone about the matter (vs. just silence), and actually made at least some statement at the not-so-kind responses from the major article websites, it wouldn't have been THIS negative... But I suppose the damage is done.
Kind of also makes me wonder if EA/BioWare got a tad impatient with this game, with the DLC, and (in my opinion) their poor handling with the majority's response with the ending.
Since it launched at early March. With the fiscal year ending at the end of the month… It must’ve been very tempting to rack up just a few more dollars in the reports. (And omit the negativity about the ending, at least until the end of March)
It’s just me speculating, but based on some of the other people’s post about how the fiscal year works… I also think being surprisingly silent about the whole matter (in the expense of more frustrated fans) is also part of it.
Bad official press must look unappealing to investors, but I don't know if they are looking at the long term matter of bad impression from their most loyal fans.
Reply several pages late, but hot dang this thread moves fast.CommanderConnor wrote...
Hey all,
I've been lurking the movement in the forums for several days since I completed my second playthrough of ME3. I say second because on my first I assumed that I had screwed up during my initial playthrough and needed to build up my EMS to get a better final result. After I recieved the same ending I finally took to researching the ending to see if other outcomes were available. After discovering that I had achieved the BEST outcome in the game I became depressed. I had not gauged how deeply attached I had become to the series, and was shocked that such a poorly composed ending (in my eyes) could personally affect me.
It took me approximately a week to figure out how to even be able to post on the forums; something that I view as a testament to how little I normally am involved in gaming. Mass Effect is the ony series I get excited about, and I play very little games apart from it. I needed to get involved.
In this post I would like to achieve the following things:
1. Potential feedback from those of you in the movement to give me direction on how I can actively participate. I have donated to Child's Play and created a twitter to engage the Mass Effect twitter. Where do I go from here?
2. Discuss how amazing you folks are.
I will be accomplishing number 2 now.
I have witnessed a truly beautiful movement over the last week. To observe peaceful and active protest within a gaming community is something that I did not expect to find, but deeply resonated in me. I may normally not be a gamer, but I do actively campaign for equality in my personal life. This is why I have been so touched to see people stand up for what they believe in, and in such a positive way as well. The charitable nature of the community, and their willingness to put the time and effort into persuing a better gaming experience is something that have changed the way I view video game fans.
Reading some of what people have taken the time to compose on here has made me even more emotional than the game itself. I have been exposed to so many different perspectives and each of them have given me insight to my own personal ME3 feelings. What has struck me the most is how strongly you stand together. The bond that this mutual dissappointment has created is awe-inspiring and yet another positive way to oppose it. It truly embodies Shepard and her/his philosophy that standing together can achieve greatness. I have never been so inspired by a collective fanbase, and would love the opportunity to join in that stand.
For a little insight into me I am an artist by profession and passion. Perhaps this is why I have been so touched by the response to Mass Effect. Video games are entertainment, but they are no more or less art than literature. This is proven by how it inspires an emotional response it its players. That does not negate a negative response to the ending and a desire to change it. If art were so concrete in its convictions and it never evolved due to critique we would all be producing finger-paintings. Critique of a work can and should influence its evolution, and if it is not listened to or disregarded then the author is missing out of further expansion of their work. No artist should be stubborn and stick to their guns 100% of the time, it suggests they have lost the passion to grow. I would truly be honored if people presented me with so many well-formulated critiques. It shows their level of care for the work itself.
I apologize for this lengthy post. In short, continue standing up for what you believe in. There are people out there that are inspired by what you are doing, and have been moved to join you.
DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
It was in Forbes the deal has been made with one of the production houses at Warner Brother and a script is being written. WB can't be too happy right now.
It's quite easy for people to associate anyone who doesn't like the ending with the cause.Syrellaris wrote...
Carnage752 wrote...
There will always be angry, immature people. I hope you have seen that most of the movement trys and mostly succeeds to be civil.Syrellaris wrote...
Necroscope wrote...
Fans strikes back:
and yet that wasn't funny at all, just a boring repeating crappy made video =/ with one hell of a bad sound track on it. God my ears!
oh I wasnt even aware the video was made by movement people, I just thought it was horrible done and not funny. I don't like IGN myself either, but the video they did was quite hilarious. (I watched the entire thing)
Carnage752 wrote...
Doesn't make it right. If this was their intention they would have made it clear, or ignore us completely. The fact they are in such a scramble now indicates this was an honest screw up. They would have already confirmed ending DLC.Syrellaris wrote...
Vap0ur_Snake wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
ArmyKnifeX wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one. The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers. They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.
We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product. The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised. That's it. It is business.
Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.
ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.
I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.
You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story. If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward. As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.
That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.
My point is that there is no "art issue." Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development. The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.
Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child.
Or they didn't lie and left us with a cliffhanger for future DLC. its not uncommon practice to be honest.
Syrellaris wrote...
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
Spring sales, its getting lowered in price on steam too and stores currently sell it for 29.99...(batman arkham city that is)
Modifié par Leafs43, 19 mars 2012 - 08:45 .
If they just said every ending was the result of indoctrination, then there would still be an uproar. This is still a lack of choice.Sinnick03 wrote...
Carnage752 wrote...
Even if they run with the indoctrination theory, the fact Shepard still runs with the Starchild's plan AFTER breaking indoctrination will be a massive plothole.komoshi wrote...
In a way, I believe BioWare is in an amazing position right now. But only if they don't drop the (2nd) ball.
If you think about it, they can use the Indoctrination Theory (Which many agree that it's a very clever way to 'tell' a story to the gamer, like meta-clever) and give the fans a sigh of relief.
They can claim that it was their intention all along. (And all the misdirection and silence was to emphasize the point - Which honestly, I don't really know if it was REALLY intended by a 'play by the books' EA, but many seem to think that it's possible with BioWare. So, they can still kind of get away with it.)
Even if they don't use the Indoctrination Theory, they can still release something that is of quality closure (and hopefully free to show good measure) to please their hardcore fans and show them (and the press) that they are a company that really care about their relationship with their audience.
Either way they can really win this.
And I'm sure EA/BioWare is aware, and they may think they still hold most of their cards.
But what I do think is that they're underestimating how volatile the situation is actually at hand.
If they choose to delay too long, I think all of that 'upper hand' I just wrote about will not matter since they would be missing a crucial timing.
I personally think, had they have at least threw us a bone about the matter (vs. just silence), and actually made at least some statement at the not-so-kind responses from the major article websites, it wouldn't have been THIS negative... But I suppose the damage is done.
Kind of also makes me wonder if EA/BioWare got a tad impatient with this game, with the DLC, and (in my opinion) their poor handling with the majority's response with the ending.
Since it launched at early March. With the fiscal year ending at the end of the month… It must’ve been very tempting to rack up just a few more dollars in the reports. (And omit the negativity about the ending, at least until the end of March)
It’s just me speculating, but based on some of the other people’s post about how the fiscal year works… I also think being surprisingly silent about the whole matter (in the expense of more frustrated fans) is also part of it.
Bad official press must look unappealing to investors, but I don't know if they are looking at the long term matter of bad impression from their most loyal fans.
From the way I understand the Indoc theory, the Starchild is still very much part of the indoctrination.
Enichan wrote...
Reply several pages late, but hot dang this thread moves fast.CommanderConnor wrote...
-cut for length-
Things you can do:
- Post on the forums every now and then, keep making yourself heard
- Join Facebook if you're not on it already and like this page
- Send letters to Bioware
- Contact the media about the story, including how well the Child's Play initiative is doing
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, cause I'm pretty tired at the moment. I'd also like to say your post - especially as a fellow artist - was touching, and I'm glad you found your way here. Hold the line.
ArmyKnifeX wrote...
Whoa there man... Hold up. Links has a lot of good points. I think most people's biggest problems with EA are twofold: one with their crappy customer support during non-launch times, and two: their marketing division.
I completely think their marketing division needs to be held accountable for the crap they throw at the public, especially the campaigns that paint gamers in a stereotypical light - it does nothing to further the cause of gaming as a legitimate medium or change the perception of gamers.
Without EA, by the way, we wouldn't have the huge budgets requires to produce AAA games. Are these budgets always necessary? No. But if there weren't a demand they wouldn't rake in more profits than any other form of media.
Syrellaris wrote...
Carnage752 wrote...
Doesn't make it right. If this was their intention they would have made it clear, or ignore us completely. The fact they are in such a scramble now indicates this was an honest screw up. They would have already confirmed ending DLC.Syrellaris wrote...
Vap0ur_Snake wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
ArmyKnifeX wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one. The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers. They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.
We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product. The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised. That's it. It is business.
Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.
ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.
I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.
You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story. If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward. As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.
That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.
My point is that there is no "art issue." Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development. The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.
Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child.
Or they didn't lie and left us with a cliffhanger for future DLC. its not uncommon practice to be honest.
It might also just be that they did not expect this cliffhanger to create such a bad taste with fans and are considering to change it slightly to make it more clear. It is speculation on both sides to be honest
Leafs43 wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
Spring sales, its getting lowered in price on steam too and stores currently sell it for 29.99...(batman arkham city that is)
The only time EA does this sort of thing is because sales are taking an immediate hit.
This same thing happened with DA2.
If 2 weeks ago, if you told EA they would have to offer a $10 version of Arkam City, I bet the would laugh at you.
Thing is, with all our theories, there is a lot of mights. Fact is, nothing has been confirmed for a fix for the ending, and until that happens we will have to stay and hold the line.Syrellaris wrote...
Carnage752 wrote...
Doesn't make it right. If this was their intention they would have made it clear, or ignore us completely. The fact they are in such a scramble now indicates this was an honest screw up. They would have already confirmed ending DLC.Syrellaris wrote...
Vap0ur_Snake wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
ArmyKnifeX wrote...
SuperTeal wrote...
But the problem with ME3 isn't an artistic one - it is a story and game mechanics one. The end doesn't deliver what was advertised for many months by the developers. They are artists to an extent - but they are also delivering a product.
We need to remember that Mass Effect is not high art - it is an entertainment product. The consumer has every right to demand that the product deliver what was promised. That's it. It is business.
Films are just as much "entertainment products" as they are art. Some films lean more towards one direction, others to the other. I certainly wouldn't bill a film like Melancholia or Antichrist as pure entertainment, just like I wouldn't call a film like Crank high art.
ME3 is so interseting because it serves us so very well in both an artistic and entertainment way that people are getting confused.
I agree that as consumers we were lied to. This is a separate issue from the art issue, though. ME3 is also high art. I don't think these two qualities HAVE to be reconciled with one another.
You're right - but the primary difference between Mass Effect (as a video game) and any film is that Mass Effectrequires interaction from the player to make decisions which direct the story. If I do not make these decisions the story stands still and doesn't move forward. As the consumer/player you have some control over the direction of the story - unlike a film.
That is where the problem with Mass Effect 3's ending comes in - it takes that promised control out of the hands of the consumer and delivers it to a pseudo deus ex mechina - delivering an ending that is polar opposite to what Casey Hudson said would happen.
My point is that there is no "art issue." Art doesn't factor into this, because Mass Effect 3 is a beautiful game - with a mostly well crafted story and character development. The problem is that the story development and one of the primary gameplay mechanics - choice - is broken by the ending.
Great point. How can they possibly ignore this, it is blatant fact. They lied about the ending which made it an even harder kick in the nuts when we were presented with a giant bowl of s*** to eat by the star child.
Or they didn't lie and left us with a cliffhanger for future DLC. its not uncommon practice to be honest.
It might also just be that they did not expect this cliffhanger to create such a bad taste with fans and are considering to change it slightly to make it more clear. It is speculation on both sides to be honest
Run into to your local game store and check the used prices for the game. I guarantee that adds justification for these peoples' thoughts.Syrellaris wrote...
Leafs43 wrote...
Syrellaris wrote...
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
Spring sales, its getting lowered in price on steam too and stores currently sell it for 29.99...(batman arkham city that is)
The only time EA does this sort of thing is because sales are taking an immediate hit.
This same thing happened with DA2.
If 2 weeks ago, if you told EA they would have to offer a $10 version of Arkam City, I bet the would laugh at you.
You are aware I hope that origin is EA's version of Steam right and they are constantly improving and making it more versatile like steam is and thus also include the sales and so on.
I understand people hate EA right now and truthfully that hatred is not deserved. EA is no different then Activision / Blizzard, codemasters or any other large publishing company. There for not everything they do is tied to Mass effect 3.
I mean I can understand you would say that about the multiplayer event, and perhaps even he free trial weekend in Swtor, but people are really starting to grab at totally loose ends right now, just to muster some extra support.
Agreed we are gaining ground, but the war continues.Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...
Leafs43 wrote...
PR team has extended the olive branch.
EA offering a $10 purchase on Batman Arkham City if you purchase ME3 on Origin. This has been advertised on both twitter and facebook.
Probably the most anticipated release in Bioware's history and 2 weeks after release they practically have to give another game away for people to buy it.
We are winning.
"Winning"? No...we're gaining ground, but at the expense of our franchise.
Which is necessary, I agree, but sad, nonetheless.
Syrellaris wrote...
people are really starting to grab at totally loose ends right now, just to muster some extra support.
Carnage752 wrote...
Thing is, with all our theories, there is a lot of mights. Fact is, nothing has been confirmed for a fix for the ending, and until that happens we will have to stay and hold the line.
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