9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightfire78]

What bugs me with the article posted earlier (aside form the fact that some of it is old quotes merged together to imply other things than they originally did and that it doesn't really say anything concrete) is this talk about people wanting a happier ending. I'm not sure that that properly depicts the... problematic... nature of the ending. I hope that in reality Bioware is reading the forums more closely (and watching the many excellent youtube commentaries) than that and knows that the issues go beyond happy or non-happy endings...

[Janus382]

Baineblade wrote...

You got dude!  So!  Anyone keeping up with Gamefront?  They've posted like 4 or 5 articles in the past few hours that are a bit interesting to read!

Thanks for the tip!  I've been impressed with their coverage so far.

[Apathy1989]

Syrellaris wrote...

The studio behind hit videogame "Mass Effect 3" on Monday said fans who wanted a happier ending may get a slice of what they wish for, following an online campaign calling for changes.

The game's executive producer Casey Hudson acknowledged in an online post that the chosen conclusion to the gripping science fiction action trilogy had generated "a lot of discussion and debate," but stood firm on the decision.

"We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending," he explained in the studio's first and only response to the campaign," on gamemaker BioWare's website forum.

"To do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way," he continued, in a reference to the heroic character whose choices and actions are controlled by players in all three titles.

A "Demand a Better Ending for Mass Effect 3" page at social networking website Facebook had logged more than 42,000 "likes" by Monday and a "@RetakeME3" account at Twitter had 4,528 followers.

One fan took the campaign further, filing a complaint with the US Federal Trade Commission arguing that BioWare and publisher Electronic Arts had not been honest about how the trilogy would end.

Hudson, however, noting feedback from players that the ending was too bleak, said BioWare was working on new content that will be made available to download online to extend play beyond the current finish of the game.

"We'll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be," he said. "This is not the last you'll hear of Commander Shepard.

"We also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories," Hudson added.

Originally launched in 2007, the final installment in the "Mass Effect" trilogy was released on March 5 and snapped up by fans.

The games pit the main character, a male or female version of Commander Shepard depending on player preference, against an ancient race of machines called "Reapers" intent on wiping out organic life in the cosmos.

Allies made or friends lost in one game changes who is at the side of a player's character, and thus their options, in sequels. Players can opt to not import characters' reputations from earlier games so they can start fresh.

Hudson said the game had been designed with a series of endings to key plots to allow players to "carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey."

If this is true, then there is still a big disconnect between fans and Bioware. The ending isn't too bleak, its just incomplete and breaks all good story telling conventions.

http://social.biowar.../index/10022779

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

[Zulmoka531]

Someone paid Yahoo a pretty penny to post this, then again it's Yahoo which is..bleh:

http://games.yahoo.c...-173411384.html

[Greyhound144]

Enjoyed the updates on atghunter's comments
and OP for keeping track

Word of mouth is the best advertising in the world, it costs you nothing but is hard to achieve. ME series had a good word of mouth reputation, on ME2 release i got 2 people into the Saga, you multiply that by 40000 odd customers who praise your work? 80000 extra sales? of course not entirely works like that, but ruining your reputation with loyal fanbase will cost you $ here's hoping they will at least try to salvage some of that lost reputation.

Hold the line!

[Leland Gaunt]

Nightfire78 wrote...

What bugs me with the article posted earlier (aside form the fact that some of it is old quotes merged together to imply other things than they originally did and that it doesn't really say anything concrete) is this talk about people wanting a happier ending. I'm not sure that that properly depicts the... problematic... nature of the ending. I hope that in reality Bioware is reading the forums more closely (and watching the many excellent youtube commentaries) than that and knows that the issues go beyond happy or non-happy endings...

I think you make a good point there. Even though I want a happy ending with little blue children for my main shep, that doesn't go for the rest of them, since I played them in very different ways. I certainly don't want just another colored blast with a forced happy ending and I think that goes for almost everybody in this thread.

[Syrellaris]

We get it. You love Bioware (hell, you may even be working for them).  But for the rest us that don't trust Bioware, due to their recent public track record, will continue to remain skeptical of them. All we want are endings that are diverse, endings that make sense, and to get closure for the trilogy. Until then, we wait.

I wish I was working for them haha, sure would pay better then my current job. I love bioware because I've had nothing but good experiences with them, this one little ending thing isn't going to sway me so badly that I will never trust them again.

The fact is, I have spoken with some of them and they are truly passionate about the games they develop. You can call it PR if you will but when you are face to face with someone, were you can hear the emotion in there words and  see the passion they have for there job and what they create, well in short it gives you a much better understanding then you think.

I am not asking you to trust them, I am merely giving my point of view regarding them. I want some things changed just as much as you do, so in that we stand together.

[Tirranek]

Jamie9 wrote...

Tirranek wrote...

I ask of you one question:

Does the end taint the moments that came before it? Do you see yourself replaying this game knowing your choices do not matter in the end? Is it the journey, the destination, or both that matter?

Those arguments against the ending are very rational, and I agree with most of them. Introducing a new power so late in the game was largely unnecessary, though I wouldn't say it undermined things all that much. You get the impression it's a dormant power that set things in motion, only activated when circumstances came together to prove that method didn't work.

At the very least the ending is what I'd call 'disposable', the kind of thing you'd accept at the end of a film, but lacking when it comes to a story you've shaped. It's too cinematic when it shouldn't be, and not enough (in my opinion) when it would benefit from it.

As for your question, I felt reluctant to start a new game initially, for a number of reasons.

1) The game, regardless of flaws in the ending moments, is a very emotional experience. As much as I thought I was ready for a space-apocalypse conclusion, ME3 did an amazing job of surprising me. I didn't really feel like jumping back in to it right away because I was still processing it from the first time.

2) For all the characters I created, I realised that I only really had 1 definitive Shepard. She was the first one I made in ME1 back in 2007, when all the choices and consequences were unknowns, and therefore all the more meaningful. I made lots of other characters in 1, while waiting for 2, and in 2, while waiting for 3. Yet when I finished 3, I honestly felt finished. Tom Francis explained it really well:

"Shepard is the best game character I’ve ever played. She’s been an ongoing improv collaboration between me and BioWare to build a hero that works for their plot, but suits my tastes. Since we composed her first inspiring speech to the crew when she took charge of the Normandy, a commanding, brutally effective woman has emerged through 60 hours of tough decisions. She’s killed thousands who got in her way, hung up on the interstellar Council four times, punched the same reporter in three different interviews and shot people mid-sentence. But she has also formed conflicted, quiet, sometimes touching relationships with some of the alien weirdos dragged along on her mission. Relationships that gave her character a gentler side I didn’t expect, but which made sense of the person I had in my head."

With prior games in the series, there was always that element of 'what will happen next?' Now that I've completed the trilogy, I know what leads to what and there is a certain magic, both narratively and technically, that any other playthrough won't have.

3) With the state of the ending in flux as a result of efforts to change it, and the possibility that it might, I'm not particularly invested in playing through again until a definitive state is reached.

4) It's been a long journey, and rather than wrap things up with a bow, a whole new world of 'what ifs, what abouts, and huh?s' have opened up. It's knackering, quite frankly . Those same questions will be there no matter what Shepard I play, so beyond a certain point I feel I'll just be repeating myself.

But does it taint the series for me? Honestly, I would say no, because in my opinion the final choice feels like the first decision in a new series, instead of the last one of the old. Sort of like how Robert E. Howard's Conan series marks the fall of Atlantis as the starting point of a new age, the fall of the relays etc feels like the origins of how a new society is started.

Yes it's basically the same ending (visually) for each outcome, and yes, the war asset mechanic makes little difference aesthetically to things (which I would have liked a lot), but for me, every choice in the series was about how my particular Shepard was able to get to that ending. It was about being strong enough to affect a change of some sort, and that strength manifested through all sorts of choices I'd made. I felt it faithfully reflected that, and the only problem is that there is no immediate Mass Effect 4 to see the long-term consequences of her actions.

So you see it as all those descisions made do pay off but in the end they serve to get your Shepard to that point. I wish I could view it like that. I mean, I can see where you are coming from, the trilogy tests Shepard's resolve and he finally overcomes his final test (the Illusive Man) and gets to make his or her choice.

I will thoroughly admit that I put all my eggs into the 'choices will make the ending' change basket, even before BioWare admitted so in interviews. If they hadn't have directly confirmed my expectations, I would probably be saying exactly what you are.

I hope that if the ending is changed, it does not ruin what you see in this game's ending. Thank you for helping me understand a similar, but in some ways very different point of view. It's been very enlightening.

I was away for most of the evening, so sorry for the delay in replying. I think you're right and I'm lucky that I avoided a lot of the promotional material that could have affected my expectations. As it stands, I had no preset opinion beyond hoping the game would recognise my past actions. It did that superbly, arguably at the cost of failing to properly acknowledge the larger decisions in 3 itself. The complaints concerning the lack of reflection on your actions, particulary the Organic vs Synthetic argument, are absolutely valid.

I've just never seen a game react to my decisions to such an extent over three games before. That fact alone still has me amazed, and while I can support the idea that the series deserves a more thorough conclusion than what it got, I can't say it's retroactively ruined everything else it got right.

Thanks for taking the time respond and I hope things develop in a way that will make you and others ultimately happy with the series.

[rpat102]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Someone paid Yahoo a pretty penny to post this, then again it's Yahoo which is..bleh:

http://games.yahoo.c...-173411384.html

85 likes to the group to keep Mass Effect 3 the same, 43, 694 to demand a better ending.  Vocal minority much?

[No_MSG]

Yeah, I don't know how you call the ending bleak. It's not... anything. It would be bleak if someone could explain what happened. From what I saw in my ending, it was a super mega happy ending, except that Shepard died. "Shepard died space diving, but everyone else is on this planet, and everything is gum drops and lollypops." That's what I got out of my ending.

My preferred ending is far more bleak. I refuse to choose, and the galaxy burns.

[Aarick13]

"We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending," he explained in the studio's first and only response to the campaign," on gamemaker BioWare's website forum.

"To do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way," he continued, in a reference to the heroic character whose choices and actions are controlled by players in all three titles.


This to me is a slap in the face. It seems to me that he doesnt understand why everyone is angry. I would have loved a bittersweet ending. Like the dark energy. either save the universe for now or save it for the next 50,000 years. There was nothing bittersweet about the 3 color choice, and once i got to the final mission my decisions didnt matter. i got full EMS, saved squad mates, reunited the turian, krogan, geth, quarian but i didnt see any epilogue about that. why bother doing any of that.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yeah i think any new endings should include a happy ending. After all people don't have to go for it if they don't want to but it seems to me with all the old team mates you lose in ME3 you don't need Shepard and his LI to die in order to make the victory bittersweet. I hate to keep going back to this one show but in Babylon 5 when they retook earth most of the characters made it out alive but no one felt like standing up and cheering because of what happened to Susan and Marcus. It seems to the me the endings we have now are all bitter and no sweet.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Zulmoka531]

rpat102 wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Someone paid Yahoo a pretty penny to post this, then again it's Yahoo which is..bleh:

http://games.yahoo.c...-173411384.html

85 likes to the group to keep Mass Effect 3 the same, 43, 694 to demand a better ending.  Vocal minority much?

I stopped in the middle of reading it. Yahoo has always had questionable journalism, but this reeks of...bias to say the least. Someone had to pay for that.

[David Falkayn]

Darkeus wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

[
Want a couple of examples?

1) I am currently in a very dedicated european Star Wars the old republic guild for roleplay and such. We had a fan meeting up in London in 2011 at the eurogamer exposition. Bioware both with ME3 and Swtor were there. They also had there developers and Stephen Reid with them. We managed to sneak in a few questions and asked them if we could be in the Beta since we missed the conference they were holding. They said sure.

We had to write down our email adresses and give it to them. Low and behold 1 week after eurogamer, we had our Closed beta invites for Sw:Tor.

2) I also managed to play mass Effect 3 there the first time and recieved some very nice background information that people here on BSN did not even know about.

I also met up with them in a special meet and greet session in London at gamerbase I think on Piccadilly circus.  Were we had some beers, snacks and played Sw:tor while we chatted about various bioware games from the past as well as those still come!

in short. Bioware never really let me down and they are amazing people.

Umm, just more PR to keep fans happy.  Sorry, they cared about your money, not being nice to you!  I mean come on, those types of events are used to humanize the company and also to make fan relationships.  Most companies do these types of things, they do not make EA/Bioware special....

Why couldn't Hudson and Reid be acting out of both motives?  Sure, they wanted a repeat customer, but they also went out of their way to do some nice stuff with this person and spend time with him/her that they didn't have to spend.  Look, I'm as disappointed by the ending as most of the rest of you here, but I'm not ready to consign Bioware to the "no longer buy from" pool just yet.  I've been a customer of Bioware and its earlier incarnations going all the way back to Planescape: Torment and I don't want throw what has been a mutually beneficial commercial/entertainment relationship away out of a fit of pique.  I'm not asking the Bioware creators to jettison their endings and I'm not asking those players who enjoyed the endings to give them up--I just want what many others here want--an ending that completes my Shepard's story satisfactorily.  Right now, I'm in wait and see mode.  If Bioware gives me the ending I want--or even makes a good faith effort at it--then I will happily continue to buy their games and sing their praises.   If not, then yes, an almost 15 year relationship will probably end with all sides the losers.

[InsaneAzrael]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Someone paid Yahoo a pretty penny to post this, then again it's Yahoo which is..bleh:

http://games.yahoo.c...-173411384.html

Those comments smacked of horrendous irony. Complaining on the internet about people complaining on the internet.. Cringe.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

I'm sorry but given that they lied in the past and are still lying now about not needing MP for SP endings I can't trust anything Bioware says. Now if they take action and I see a patch for EMS and they start work on new ending DLC then that will go along way to getting my trust back. Stick together people no matter how long and we will win.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[earthonline]

 I personally liked the endings

there are more than 16 endings in the game

and I found one I like

[ReavousX]

If there's anything I personally want to demand other than better endings, it's to hear Casey and the rest of Bioware acknowledge that we're not mad because the endings aren't "happy". Please, I wanted an ending where my Shepard sacrificed himself! The lack of a happy ending is something that should be addressed, but it's hardly the fuel for this fire.

It's insulting, how they act like we just can't let go of the stories, and are unhappy because Shepard died.

[Darkeus]

David Falkayn wrote...

Darkeus wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

[
Want a couple of examples?

1) I am currently in a very dedicated european Star Wars the old republic guild for roleplay and such. We had a fan meeting up in London in 2011 at the eurogamer exposition. Bioware both with ME3 and Swtor were there. They also had there developers and Stephen Reid with them. We managed to sneak in a few questions and asked them if we could be in the Beta since we missed the conference they were holding. They said sure.

We had to write down our email adresses and give it to them. Low and behold 1 week after eurogamer, we had our Closed beta invites for Sw:Tor.

2) I also managed to play mass Effect 3 there the first time and recieved some very nice background information that people here on BSN did not even know about.

I also met up with them in a special meet and greet session in London at gamerbase I think on Piccadilly circus.  Were we had some beers, snacks and played Sw:tor while we chatted about various bioware games from the past as well as those still come!

in short. Bioware never really let me down and they are amazing people.

Umm, just more PR to keep fans happy.  Sorry, they cared about your money, not being nice to you!  I mean come on, those types of events are used to humanize the company and also to make fan relationships.  Most companies do these types of things, they do not make EA/Bioware special....

Why couldn't Hudson and Reid be acting out of both motives?  Sure, they wanted a repeat customer, but they also went out of their way to do some nice stuff with this person and spend time with him/her that they didn't have to spend.  Look, I'm as disappointed by the ending as most of the rest of you here, but I'm not ready to consign Bioware to the "no longer buy from" pool just yet.  I've been a customer of Bioware and its earlier incarnations going all the way back to Planescape: Torment and I don't want throw what has been a mutually beneficial commercial/entertainment relationship away out of a fit of pique.  I'm not asking the Bioware creators to jettison their endings and I'm not asking those players who enjoyed the endings to give them up--I just want what many others here want--an ending that completes my Shepard's story satisfactorily.  Right now, I'm in wait and see mode.  If Bioware gives me the ending I want--or even makes a good faith effort at it--then I will happily continue to buy their games and sing their praises.   If not, then yes, an almost 15 year relationship will probably end with all sides the losers.

Being a lifelong EA/Bioware fan, they have burned quite a few bridges for me.  Dragon Age 2 was a disaster.  They lied about not needing to play MP to get the max number of War Assets, they lied about the ending to ME3. 

That is enough for me.  But you have the right to trust them all you want.  That is your perrogative....

Modifié par Darkeus, 20 mars 2012 - 12:24 .

[Pandoravv3]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

I'm sorry but given that they lied in the past and are still lying now about not needing MP for SP endings I can't trust anything Bioware says. Now if they take action and I see a patch for EMS and they start work on new ending DLC then that will go along way to getting my trust back. Stick together people no matter how long and we will win.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

The MP needed for SP thing bothers me alot as well, assuming we do get a non terrible ending, I'll probably be playing these games for years to come. I'm worried one day I'll boot up the series to see that the servers are empty, and I can't get the (hopefully) good ending. Of course this is all moot if they don't change the ending, so lets focus on that for now.

Hold the line!

[Yoshikawa]

We love this game so much! It's the only reason WHY we want a logical ending to this amazing story and world!

[Janus382]

 I just want to let everyone know, that an acquaintance of mine, who hardly plays video games aside from SC2, just texted me asking what all the commotion is about ME3 and Retake... because his parents called and asked him about it.

Not sure where they heard about it... but news is getting around!

[SkaldFish]

Zero.Gee wrote...

Baineblade wrote...

I will admit I'm being passive agressive with my posting, but at the same time, I'm not going to come out in someone's face and tell them to "STFU You Wanker".  He's entitled to his opinion of course, but when he drives his opinion into the ground with you over the course of 2 days, over a myraid of differing subjects, something has to be said.

I can understand that completely. But I think its time people let that particular issue be. Lets focus our energy on other things.

Yes, please.

[Baineblade]

earthonline wrote...

 I personally liked the endings

there are more than 16 endings in the game

and I found one I like

......Which one...the Red, Green, or Blue explosion...?

[Hydralysk]

ReavousX wrote...

If there's anything I personally want to demand other than better endings, it's to hear Casey and the rest of Bioware acknowledge that we're not mad because the endings aren't "happy". Please, I wanted an ending where my Shepard sacrificed himself! The lack of a happy ending is something that should be addressed, but it's hardly the fuel for this fire.

It's insulting, how they act like we just can't let go of the stories, and are unhappy because Shepard died.

This is so true, I mean the whole ending sequence was pretty much spelling out "heroic sacrifice" to me and I didn't really care up until the point where they reaveal WHY I was sacrificing myself.