9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Utopianus]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet, but it's a good read - the musings of a screenwriter.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

[wepeel_]

Morning everyone. Such an awesome thread.

[Mariyanna]

I'm amazed at the devotion everyone is showing and all the intelligent arguments that have come from this campaign. I hope for the best (but expect the worst) and hope that BioWare's usually fantastic staff at least decides to tell us what's going on. I, for one, think the worst thing is just not knowing now.

[Nithe]

Utopianus wrote...

Not sure if this has been posted here yet, but it's a good read - the musings of a screenwriter.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

Another great write-up from a professional writer, probably the best I've read yet.

[Sinnick03]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Well, I finished the game not too long ago. Have to say, I loved it (minus the endings). Mass Effect is a great story. The Endings are just really messed up. People are trapped in Sol, will never see their homeworlds, trillions will starve to death, normandy crew is stranded on random planet, and the whole Galaxy is in lockdown since there are no relays.

Shepard can die, the whole crew can die in some final battle, but I just hope that we are not leaving the ME Galaxy a bigger mess than when we first entered it. It certainly ends with bright colors and a nice scene, but after giving a moment of thought, the endings are depressing with little hope, it's almost like the Reapers did succeed in this Cycle anyway.

Anyway, just wanted to add my voice to this movement, that I support it, not because I demand to be satisfied, I can remain dissatisfied and move on, but I would like to see this ME Galaxy to be as legendary as Shepard is said to be in the end. Honestly, I would like to see more of the Galaxy in the years to come. The endings just don't seem to make that possible, which is why I'm dissapointed.

I still am holding out hope that this is the most elaborate April Fools joke in gaming history.  That being said, if I have no definite news on April second, I may go from the Denial stage of grief to the Anger stage.

[bluespart]

I had been told that the endings weren't good. I was warned several times by different persons that it wasn't worth it. But I held through to my beliefs: That Bioware, who hadn't let me down since the start of this series, had kept their promises of an epic finale.

I played and enjoyed every seconds of Mass Effect 3, all the while asking myself "How could the end be so horrific? All this build up is so great, how could their possibly be a letdown?". I kept playing, convincing myself that the people complaining were a minority, that they just had too high anticipations. Up until the conduit, the end of the talk with the Illusive Man, I thought that it wasn't really anything bad. Anderson's last talk with you had me to tears. And then I was brought up to the last room.

The entire experience came crashing down around me. I watched, helpless, as everything I had ever accomplished was reduced to nothing. All my hard work, the countless hours of completionist gameplay I spent, lost forever. I was left with nothing but a choice where none of the outcomes mattered or even made sense. And to add salt to the injury, I was quickly reminded that soon there would be DLC to buy and that I should really buy it.

I fully knew that the endings might upset me. I am a fan of "Happily ever after" endings. I still jumped right into it, fully prepared to face the death of Shepard and my squadmates. But I wasn't even given that. I was given nothing but uncertainty, speculation and a complete lack of logic.

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

Modifié par bluespart, 20 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[Hydralysk]

Child's Play just hit $69,000!

Also there's a guy trying to encourage us to kick in a buck here

Hold the line people!

Modifié par Hydralysk, 20 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[Hirosama_White-PR]

Keep updating this, is so fascinating
I'm sure Bioware and EA will remember this for a long time and learn from their mistakes.

[Boceephus]

bluespart wrote...

I had been told that the endings weren't good. I was warned several times by different persons that it wasn't worth it. But I held through to my beliefs: That Bioware, who hadn't let me down since the start of this series, had kept their promises of an epic finale.

I played and enjoyed every seconds of Mass Effect 3, all the while asking myself "How could the end be so horrific? All this build up is so great, how could their possibly be a letdown?". I kept playing, convincing myself that the people complaining were a minority, that they just had too high anticipations. Up until the conduit, the end of the talk with the Illusive Man, I thought that it wasn't really anything bad. Anderson's last talk with you had me to tears. And then I was brought up to the last room.

The entire experience came crashing down around me. I watched, helpless, as everything I had ever accomplished was reduced to nothing. All my hard work, the countless hours of completionist gameplay I spent, lost forever. I was left with nothing but a choice where none of the outcomes mattered or even made sense. And to add salt to the injury, I was quickly reminded that soon there would be DLC to buy and that I should really buy it.

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

Good to have you bluespart. Welcome to the line.

[Sinnick03]

bluespart wrote...

snip

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

I'm sorry you had to feel that heartbreak.    Welcome to the disenchanted.

[BaKaNoOB]

Welcome to the line

[Hydralysk]

bluespart wrote...

I had been told that the endings weren't good. I was warned several times by different persons that it wasn't worth it. But I held through to my beliefs: That Bioware, who hadn't let me down since the start of this series, had kept their promises of an epic finale.

I played and enjoyed every seconds of Mass Effect 3, all the while asking myself "How could the end be so horrific? All this build up is so great, how could their possibly be a letdown?". I kept playing, convincing myself that the people complaining were a minority, that they just had too high anticipations. Up until the conduit, the end of the talk with the Illusive Man, I thought that it wasn't really anything bad. Anderson's last talk with you had me to tears. And then I was brought up to the last room.

The entire experience came crashing down around me. I watched, helpless, as everything I had ever accomplished was reduced to nothing. All my hard work, the countless hours of completionist gameplay I spent, lost forever. I was left with nothing but a choice where none of the outcomes mattered or even made sense. And to add salt to the injury, I was quickly reminded that soon there would be DLC to buy and that I should really buy it.

I fully knew that the endings might upset me. I am a fan of "Happily ever after" endings. I still jumped right into it, fully prepared to face the death of Shepard and my squadmates. But I wasn't even given that. I was given nothing but uncertainty, speculation and a complete lack of logic.

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

Well put, Mass Effect is too good a trilogy to let it end like this.

[Numdenu]

It's 2:30 AM in my area. Maybe that's why a parody of "All I Want For Christmas" about the ending and its plotholes sounds like a good idea.

I'm rotating out. Will be back tomorrow to keep holdin'.

[Necrotron]

It is sad that my full and complete life has me holding a line to see a game I love not fall into ruin because the ending was alllowed to be an absolute travesty and abandonment of all that is Mass Effect.

But...I want to see Mass Effect remembered for more than EPIC FAIL, so I HOLD.

Let's make Mass Effect a mark in history to remember!

[Agamemnon2589]

Anybody else see the thread with the results from that huge poll? This oughta be fun. Incoming troll horde.

[Irrelevant SN]

Hey guys. Not much to add, just giving my support. I donated a modest amount (See next to nothing) to childs play and intend to join the letter writing / badge mail campaign. I've got a lot of faith in our endeavor, with atghunter and others delivering a resounding rally cry. I'm not the type to get fired up over game "controversies", and I did not realize how much I truly cared for Mass Effect till I got to the end and could not describe what I felt. My mind just kinda went "Huh?" and I just stared at the screen wondering if it was my fault I didn't get it. About an hour later, the rage set in. I had been robbed. Robbed of all the promises this game made. I don't need a happy ending. No happily ever after with my space wife. I expected Shep to die. I expected bad turns for my beloved characters. And the game was highly successful at reaching my shriveled little black heart with true bittersweet moments. (I would have liked to experiment on the seashells.) But that end. No closure, variety, impact from my choices or cohesion with the overall theme or plot.My "Not much to add" has quickly become a rant, sorry. Anyways, as always...

Hold The Line

[Necrotron]

bluespart wrote...

I had been told that the endings weren't good. I was warned several times by different persons that it wasn't worth it. But I held through to my beliefs: That Bioware, who hadn't let me down since the start of this series, had kept their promises of an epic finale.

I played and enjoyed every seconds of Mass Effect 3, all the while asking myself "How could the end be so horrific? All this build up is so great, how could their possibly be a letdown?". I kept playing, convincing myself that the people complaining were a minority, that they just had too high anticipations. Up until the conduit, the end of the talk with the Illusive Man, I thought that it wasn't really anything bad. Anderson's last talk with you had me to tears. And then I was brought up to the last room.

The entire experience came crashing down around me. I watched, helpless, as everything I had ever accomplished was reduced to nothing. All my hard work, the countless hours of completionist gameplay I spent, lost forever. I was left with nothing but a choice where none of the outcomes mattered or even made sense. And to add salt to the injury, I was quickly reminded that soon there would be DLC to buy and that I should really buy it.

I fully knew that the endings might upset me. I am a fan of "Happily ever after" endings. I still jumped right into it, fully prepared to face the death of Shepard and my squadmates. But I wasn't even given that. I was given nothing but uncertainty, speculation and a complete lack of logic.

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

And THAT is why hordes of people, people who make 100K+ a year, people of all races and backgrounds, are united on internet web forums, wasting their time, because they LOVE a story that has enraptured them for 100+ hours, because they don't want it to end in NOTHING REALLY MATTERED.

So, we hold, frantically typing our keyboards, crafting succient and logical arguements, and hoping, most of all hoping, that THIS won't be the end of all we hold dear.

C'mon, this doesn't have to end in tragedy.

[rfrombrazil]

Guys, thoughts? I'll just leave this here and go to bed, but between a 5$ drop in stock value, which will only continue (i'm betting it gets to 14$/share), and well, basically none of bioware's main lineup franchises doing very well lately....

http://www.gamespot....anceled-6367086

heres the post in the forums.

http://social.biowar.../index/10245444

its very handy they announced it today/yesterday, if for nothing else than taking the heat a little off ME3. but it could also mean a greater scheme of things - which i will not dwelve upon for lack of relevant data.

[Zulmoka531]

Hirosama_White-PR wrote...

Keep updating this, is so fascinating
I'm sure Bioware and EA will remember this for a long time and learn from their mistakes.

Technically? It's already happening. The Dragon Age team has practically scrapped what they were working on and has gone into heavy fan input mode, ala working along side fans to make the next Dragon Age.

What results may come are yet to be seen, my personal trust has wavered (again that's me personally), but there is some sort of impact.

Modifié par Zulmoka531, 20 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[Elios]

Seems there are some reports of EA and Amazon offering refunds
Faux Olive branch any one?

[Mbednar]

Bathaius wrote...


And THAT is why hordes of people, people who make 100K+ a year, people of all races and backgrounds, are united on internet web forums, wasting their time, because they LOVE a story that has enraptured them for 100+ hours, because they don't want it to end in NOTHING REALLY MATTERED.

So, we hold, frantically typing our keyboards, crafting succient and logical arguements, and hoping, most of all hoping, that THIS won't be the end of all we hold dear.

C'mon, this doesn't have to end in tragedy.

The thing is, it wasn't even a satisfying tragedy.  It was just incredibly poor.

Although I would prefer a happier ending, I would have been satisfied if it was a well written tragedy.  One that made me feel like my sacrifice made a positve difference in the galaxy.  When this game ends, I feel like a couple hundred years of running from the reapers would have been better than isolating and causing the extinction of most of the galaxy.

[Kirival]

these are just some thoughts I've had if anyone wants to read them, along with links to other articles! I've said a few things in this thread before and its a great read, lets keep it going ppl!

go see http://social.biowar.../index/10270489 to find out what I'm talking about


Some Thoughts

That out of the way I really liked this post! Great thoughts OP and very well stated. I cannot argue with you, nor can I refute your passage about the Star Child which I thought was your most well stated and interesting point. The fact that the possibilities of the galaxy are endless and therefore so could my ending be was truly poignant. My only complaint is that I didn't want to imagine anything I could or wanted to be the ending.

One of the things that makes video games so enjoyable is the limitations under which you work or labor. This is not a book where I picture everything in my minds eye and fill in the blanks as I see fit. There is limited theorycrafting when there is a universe defined by gameplay and exploration. That said I think that there is a place for theorycrafting, fanfiction, and our own wild imaginations. However when there is a specific story being told it is counterproductive to the storytelling process to leave TOO much up to the imagination of the masses.

If too much is left unclear or vague, it leaves the audience, or participants in the instance of a game, feeling unsatisfied. This happens for many reasons, and theres a great post on it here:

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

but ultimately it is because when we are being told a story, even if we are active participants of it, we want to be told the story. That sound silly when you say it out loud, and some might make the point that in the Mass Effect games we have become the authors of the story, as inko1nsiderate does in his post. By saying the ending is anything we can imagine, the gamer truly does become the author. However, there is a serious problem with that concept.

This problem brings me back to the concept I mentioned above and that is limitations. Before anyone gets worried, here limitations are a good thing. As much as the gamer wants to be able to explore, affect the world around him/her, and be able to shape a character to his/her will, if that is not done under limitations it become much more of a world building exercise than a storytelling experience. Go play minecraft if you don't know what I'm talking about (p.s. I'm not mocking minecraft). A player gains enjoyment by working under the limitations placed on them and overcoming the obstacles those limitations imply.

If it was easy to make peace between the Quarians and the Geth, it wouldn't bring satisfaction would it? The player did not choose to have the Quarians go to war with the Geth, or choose the Geth response, but they had influence over the outcome. This framework, or these limitations, that were put in place allow the player to feel a sense of accomplishment when you manage to stop the genocide of an entire people.

THE POINT


So what does all this have to do with the ending? Here's the thing. Without those limitations (or preset pieces in the story) the player doesn't feel as though he or she has achieved anything significant. When this concept is placed in line with the ending of Mass Effect 3 there is a serious problem. The problem is that the framework of the story as written by the excellent scribes (yeah I still have faith in you guys over there) at BioWare sets everything up so well. The player is completely immersed, the limitations seem like impossible odds but what else could there be, I mean you're Commander Shepard, and then you defeat The Illusive Man at last by either talking him down (a sheer triumph of charisma and faith) or blowing him away (because you do things the way you want and this is your galaxy) and then...you are presented with a choice that doesn't cater to any of your beliefs and seems to come out of the blue. The problems of storytelling aside (they are covered very nicely here: http://social.biowar.../index/10022779 ) this is a problem because of how it makes the player feel.

After this there is the cutscene which varies slightly depending on your war assets (and you might see Shepard take a breath if you chose to destroy synthetics), the different colored explosion, and the inevitable crash of the Normandy which makes little sense (again see other posts for discussion on plotholes). I ramble, but all of this leads to the Stargazer, which according to inko1nsiderate in the OP tells you that the galaxy is full of anything you can imagine and therefore implies that the ending could have been anything you can imagine.

THE PROBLEM

Whether this is the case or not the player is left incredibly unsatisfied because he/she usually feels cheated. If people think about it enough, I think it boils down to the fact that they didn't feel like all of their actions and choices leading up to the end mattered. This seems to be a great consensus among us dissenters and is presented as the #1 reason in this article: http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

RETURN

Returning to my orignal point about the lack of limitations placed on the player at this point, I would like to point out that without those limitations on where the story goes, the player will feel as though the story had little point no matter how it turns out (unless there really are thousands upon thousands of possible endings based upon all of those variable decisions). Without concrete evidence as to whether their actions had a purpose, or whether their efforts made a lasting impact, a player will feel cheated because he/she will assume that implies that those works were ultimately pointless. The fact that the lore of the Mass Effect universe seems to support this adds to the problem.*

So ultimately, although telling players what actually happens in the end according to their actions might seem like it detracts from the freedom a player has in telling his/her story it would actually make the majority of people feel better because while yes, we are telling the story of OUR Commander Shepard, we are not the authors or creators of the Mass Effect universe. We want to determine our actions, but we want to know how those affect the universe around us as they have for all the Mass Effect we played up to that point. People don't really want to have to imagine how the game ends and when they have played the game they expect to be told a story not asked to come up with it at the very last second, and I think that is a major sticking point for a lot of disgruntled people.

If you actually read this far thanks so much! This ended up being a lot longer than I thought

*There are multiple articles on this already but I am referring to something such as the destructive power of an exploding Mass Relay

[Nithe]

rfrombrazil wrote...

Guys, thoughts? I'll just leave this here and go to bed, but between a 5$ drop in stock value, which will only continue (i'm betting it gets to 14$/share), and well, basically none of bioware's main lineup franchises doing very well lately....

http://www.gamespot....anceled-6367086

heres the post in the forums.

http://social.biowar.../index/10245444

its very handy they announced it today/yesterday, if for nothing else than taking the heat a little off ME3. but it could also mean a greater scheme of things - which i will not dwelve upon for lack of relevant data.

The stock drop is interesting, and a little disturbing. I know it could lead to more traction for our movement, but I don't like the idea of Bioware employees suffering for it; a mixed bag, for sure.

The canceled expansions is, well, expected; DA 2 has been, to my understanding, almost universally panned as a disappointment by the fans. Feel free to correct me, of course.

Modifié par Nithe, 20 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[IndustrializedTaco]

Nithe wrote...

rfrombrazil wrote...

Guys, thoughts? I'll just leave this here and go to bed, but between a 5$ drop in stock value, which will only continue (i'm betting it gets to 14$/share), and well, basically none of bioware's main lineup franchises doing very well lately....

http://www.gamespot....anceled-6367086

heres the post in the forums.

http://social.biowar.../index/10245444

its very handy they announced it today/yesterday, if for nothing else than taking the heat a little off ME3. but it could also mean a greater scheme of things - which i will not dwelve upon for lack of relevant data.

The stock drop is interesting, and a little disturbing. I know it could lead to more traction for our movement, but I don't like the idea of Bioware employees suffering for it; a mixed bag, for sure.

The canceled expansions is, well, expected; DA 2 has been, to my understanding, almost universally panned as a disappointment by the fans. Feel free to correct me, of course.

I knew the stocks of EA would take a hit. That's not a surprise honestly. I am actually worried for the employees of Bioware I don't want them to suffer. While I do agree it will help our movement, I sincerly hope people don't lose their jobs over this.

[Nithe]

Elios wrote...

Seems there are some reports of EA and Amazon offering refunds
Faux Olive branch any one?

The Amazon refunds strike me more as shrewd business than anything.

Modifié par Nithe, 20 mars 2012 - 06:44 .