9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Kirival]

amazon is their own entity...its just good business for them. a large part of amazon sales comes from tech and software sales and building good relationships with those customers is smart business

[Paparob]

How much impact would it have if we all tweeted the same question at Casey Hudson, like "Is the indoctrination theory true?"

[Nithe]

Paparob wrote...

How much impact would it have if we all tweeted the same question at Casey Hudson, like "Is the indoctrination theory true?"

At best, probably none... it's not the kind of thing someone under an NDA would be very receptive to, and it can only hurt our public perception.

[moonface2012]

(erased by user)

Modifié par moonface2012, 22 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[Crellis]

[quote]beetlebailey123 wrote...

[quote]Nithe wrote...

[quote]rfrombrazil wrote...
[/quote]
I knew the stocks of EA would take a hit. That's not a surprise honestly. I am actually worried for the employees of Bioware I don't want them to suffer. While I do agree it will help our movement, I sincerly hope people don't lose their jobs over this.

[/quote]

If people do lose their jobs over it. Unfortunatly that would be due to the decisions the company has made. 

We do not have to apologise for being smart consumers.

Hold the line

Modifié par Crellis, 20 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Xandurpein]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Hirosama_White-PR wrote...

Keep updating this, is so fascinating
I'm sure Bioware and EA will remember this for a long time and learn from their mistakes.

Technically? It's already happening. The Dragon Age team has practically scrapped what they were working on and has gone into heavy fan input mode, ala working along side fans to make the next Dragon Age.

What results may come are yet to be seen, my personal trust has wavered (again that's me personally), but there is some sort of impact.

I think this is something we elaborate on. Bioware are obviously very happy to foster a climate where the fans feel they have a personal stake in their games as long as it's to their advantage. This backlash is as much as anything else a result of Bioware actively fostering a sense of entitlement among the fans so we will be loyal to them, but when the chips are down it's just about the money. When there's a controversy over the ending of Mass Effect 3 we have no longer any stake in the game at all, we're just troublesome customers to be handled by the PR department. Unless Bioware owns up to this, I will certainly take this lesson to heart.

[TurambarEA]

That unigamesity article is a good read - I've been disgusted by the knee-jerk reaction of the games media towards gamers where most of those doing so aren't even across the issues in the first place. Anyone who hasn't read it should give it a read: http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/

"Professional courtesy doesn’t mean to be nice, it means be professional enough to know and understand the issue before you write about it."

It's afternoon in Australia now and I'm only just checking in - did I miss anything in the last 12+ hours?

[IndustrializedTaco]

[quote]Crellis wrote...

[quote]beetlebailey123 wrote...

[quote]Nithe wrote...

[quote]rfrombrazil wrote...
[/quote]
I knew the stocks of EA would take a hit. That's not a surprise honestly. I am actually worried for the employees of Bioware I don't want them to suffer. While I do agree it will help our movement, I sincerly hope people don't lose their jobs over this.

[/quote]

If people do lose their jobs over it. Unfortunatly that would be due to the decisions the company has made. 

We do not have to apologise for being smart consumers.

Hold the line

[/quote]
I still feel it is wrong for people to lose their jobs over this. I will hold the line... but I hope the best for the employees of this company.

[Nithe]

Crellis wrote...

If people do lose their jobs over it. Unfortunatly that would be due to the decisions the company has made. 

We do not have to apologise for being smart consumers.

Hold the line

Agreed. The responsibility does fall on the creator's head, and not on ours, the consumers. I don't think beetlebailey or I meant otherwise, just that it would be another regrettable effect of Bioware/EA's poor choices.

[ReynoldsXD3]

This is hardly an issue about writing practises or the details of tropes.



 This is basically us playing  games consisting of "challenging and defeating the machinations of an ancient and powerfull enemy, to be  concluded in a final, epic showdown that leaves one side th winner, and the other the loser."
 So we went into me3 thinking that if we put in the hours to get the best possible assets (minus the things our decisions from earlier games locked us out of) we could ride in, and get a WIN.

A classic WIN, including the well proven HAPPY END (you know, a lot of people like WINNING AND EATING CAKE).


Was that too much to expect?

 Instead we get a non ending that leaves everyone screwed. And not due to our choices or inability to make the right calls to gather support (you know, game action) but because some buck got lazy at the end.


This is Lost bad, this is Galactica bad.

Its Asspull bad. the worst kind of bad.


"it was supposed to be memorable"  You know whats memorable to me? my shepard riding into sol with a honking huge army of of the willing to go murder reapers. and winning. and then having a celebration. perhaps with beer.

The kind of memorable where i can look back and say "**** yeah."




But instead i got the "yeah this company is dead to me" memorable.


have fun not earning my money (of course i know this is of no concern to you).
Oh and swtor sub is canceled   (of course i know this is also of no concern to you). 
  Oh and EA, yeah you are on the ban list now too, you joined activinion and uebelsoft. 



oh btw here is one for writers in general:

If i want to see a non happy end, i look out of the effing window, and watch news channels. I do not need you people driveling on about how not everything can end well, i know that.. Thats why i like fiction, because it can end well there.



ever resentful,

ex-customer #whateveryoudontcareitherway
Naturally also my worst wishes to all of you.

Modifié par ReynoldsXD3, 20 mars 2012 - 11:40 .

[Nithe]

TurambarEA wrote...

That unigamesity article is a good read - I've been disgusted by the knee-jerk reaction of the games media towards gamers where most of those doing so aren't even across the issues in the first place. Anyone who hasn't read it should give it a read: http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/

"Professional courtesy doesn’t mean to be nice, it means be professional enough to know and understand the issue before you write about it."

It's afternoon in Australia now and I'm only just checking in - did I miss anything in the last 12+ hours?

Welcome back, and yes you did; Amazon is now offering full refunds for Mass Effect 3: http://social.biowar...ndex/10291789/1 

[IndustrializedTaco]

Nithe wrote...

Crellis wrote...

If people do lose their jobs over it. Unfortunatly that would be due to the decisions the company has made. 

We do not have to apologise for being smart consumers.

Hold the line

Agreed. The responsibility does fall on the creator's head, and not on ours, the consumers. I don't think beetlebailey or I meant otherwise, just that it would be another regrettable effect of Bioware/EA's poor choices.

Thank you. While I fully support the change of an ending, and will continue to hold the line. I just hope employees are alright.

[RiouHotaru]

Meh, the Dark Energy idea wasn't terribly much better. Since it only resulted in two choices one of which was basically "Reapers win", and I can't see ANYONE honestly picking "Hey, Reapers are right!" as an option.

[IndustrializedTaco]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Meh, the Dark Energy idea wasn't terribly much better. Since it only resulted in two choices one of which was basically "Reapers win", and I can't see ANYONE honestly picking "Hey, Reapers are right!" as an option.

That's what bugged me about the dark energy thing. I mean wouldn't this technically be a more or less universal problem, and not just a galatic problem. I mean if you have the ability to speed the ageing of stars shouldn't that be a cause for concern of not just the reapers but the WHOLE BLOODY UNIVERSE. I mean that would of been an interesting plot twist though. I wonder was there a conclusion to that quest? Did we ever find out why the star was dying. I didn't, I'm just wondering did any one else have that problem?

[RiouHotaru]

TurambarEA wrote...

That unigamesity article is a good read - I've been disgusted by the knee-jerk reaction of the games media towards gamers where most of those doing so aren't even across the issues in the first place. Anyone who hasn't read it should give it a read: http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/

"Professional courtesy doesn’t mean to be nice, it means be professional enough to know and understand the issue before you write about it."

It's afternoon in Australia now and I'm only just checking in - did I miss anything in the last 12+ hours?

Wait...I don't get this.  The gaming media's reaction to the fans is considered "knee-jerk"...but the reaction of the fans themselves isn't?

That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?  The game hasn't even been out 2 weeks yet.  And we STILL don't know what Bioware is working on.

I'd say the fans are knee-jerking more than the gaming media.

[Nithe]

@beetlebail: I was too distracted by all the explosions and high octane nightmare fuel being thrown around to notice that particular plot hole, at the time.

[cyrrant]

Sinnick03 wrote...

bluespart wrote...

snip

No, Bioware. This is not how you put an end to a series renowned for it's complex and (often) ethical dilemnas. It is without any regrets that I had my voice to this growing chorus of discomtempt.

Because our choices matters,
Hold the Line

I'm sorry you had to feel that heartbreak.    Welcome to the disenchanted.

Welcome indeed.  But feel disenchanted no longer, because here you will find at least some sense of solace, and I hope you let a little bit of everything that's going on here on the BSN fill whatever hole the ending has left in your heart.  Have faith that we'll get the endings changed.  Show that as much as you love Mass Effect and all the characters in it, you will not just lie down and accept that the ending we got is the ending such an amazing series deserves.  Join us, we are Retake Mass Effect, and we're here until all of us are finally whole again.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[SkaldFish]

the lord of spoons wrote...

wheelierdan wrote...

that's the main reason i cant wait to hear writers justify it. I just have to know what brought them to that end.

these are the people who took fan corrections of the latest book and said, wow good job guys we are fixing this for all future printings... They understood how important the integrity of the source material was.

the ending to mass effect 3 reads like someone who saw the matrix trilogy, or perhaps deus ex 1, loves some of the themes and hurriedly wrote some fan fiction, instead of researching the material.

Same here.  The whole thing is just so illogical it has to be a writer or some writers that just went way to far down the rabbit hole and...I guess the game critics were more emotionally detached then all the fans so we were even more blindsided then we would be otherwise.

I would really find a serious literary defense of the ending to fascinating at this point on a purely intellectual level.

Well, an attempt at a literary defense would certainly be entertaining, especially if you're into dark comedy. The reality, sad to say, is that there is no literary defense for that ending. It's not literature; it's just a grab-bag of tired tropes strung together with pseudointellectual drivel and a great big spool of hubris. Worse, it feels as though [the person(s) responsible] just conjured it from thin air, stapled it hurriedly onto the ME3 narrative, and spray-painted it to match, without even bothering to integrate it with anything that had come before.

I don't think it's a big mystery; it's just incredibly poor work, from concept through execution. In a word, it's pure kitsch.

I do find two things curious: First, apparently no one called bulls**t before this literary felony made it out the door; and second, the company appears to be suffering from some sort of mass hypnosis that leads them to believe those last 5-10 minutes are, I don't know, amazingly clever or something.

Modifié par SkaldFish, 20 mars 2012 - 07:21 .

[IndustrializedTaco]

Nithe wrote...

@beetlebail: I was too distracted by all the explosions and high octane nightmare fuel being thrown around to notice that particular plot hole, at the time.

Heh. I'm just a cynical bastard.

[Crellis]

RiouHotaru wrote...

TurambarEA wrote...

Wait...I don't get this.  The gaming media's reaction to the fans is considered "knee-jerk"...but the reaction of the fans themselves isn't?

That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?  The game hasn't even been out 2 weeks yet.  And we STILL don't know what Bioware is working on.

I'd say the fans are knee-jerking more than the gaming media.

Don't you think it is warranted though? 

-We know what we have
-We don't know what we are going to get

Hold the line

[Nithe]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Wait...I don't get this.  The gaming media's reaction to the fans is considered "knee-jerk"...but the reaction of the fans themselves isn't?

That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?  The game hasn't even been out 2 weeks yet.  And we STILL don't know what Bioware is working on.

I'd say the fans are knee-jerking more than the gaming media.

It's a valid point, but:

Even if Bioware had the best of intentions in this(i.e. they ship an incomplete game, and then later blow us away with free DLC) it still sets a bad precedent for other developers. I don't want to see a trend of games being sold without endings and then ransomed through DLC.

My two cents.

Modifié par Nithe, 20 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[TurambarEA]

Ty for the update Nithe

@ RiouHotaru - 'knee-jerk' as in they reacted to what they perceived of the issue and wrote an article that they wanted to write instead of an article about what was actually happening. So in that sense, no, gamers are not having a knee-jerk reaction because we're not ignorant of the issues - this isn't about 'happy endings' or 'entitlement' or any of the junk the game media spewed at us in the first week, it's about the endings not stacking up to what was promised, the endings making no sense, etc., etc., etc.

[IndustrializedTaco]

A lot of gaming publishers (in the begining) were making claims that we were all whining gamers who felt entitled to a happy ending. Colin Moriarty from IGN is the best example of this.

[SkaldFish]

RiouHotaru wrote...

TurambarEA wrote...

That unigamesity article is a good read - I've been disgusted by the knee-jerk reaction of the games media towards gamers where most of those doing so aren't even across the issues in the first place. Anyone who hasn't read it should give it a read: http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/

"Professional courtesy doesn’t mean to be nice, it means be professional enough to know and understand the issue before you write about it."

It's afternoon in Australia now and I'm only just checking in - did I miss anything in the last 12+ hours?

Wait...I don't get this.  The gaming media's reaction to the fans is considered "knee-jerk"...but the reaction of the fans themselves isn't?

That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think?  The game hasn't even been out 2 weeks yet.  And we STILL don't know what Bioware is working on.

I'd say the fans are knee-jerking more than the gaming media.

No, it isn't hypocritical, because we have no indication, beyond wild apologetic conspiracy theory, that this is anything other than the ending. We turned the last page. We closed the book. There is no more data to consider. It's a completed experience, right down to the crass and intrusive DLC commercial at the end.

The gaming media, on the other hand, glanced briefly in our direction, grimaced, and sat down at the keyboard. How could this be anything other than entitled fans whining to get their way? they thought. That's the very definition of a knee-jerk reaction.

[bluespart]

Thank you al for the heartwarming welcoming everyone. It's something I find funny how the entire series basically told us that it doesn't matter who we are. That as long as we all stand together united we can overcome anything. And now we need to use said tactic against the developpers.

I am afraid someone will have to take my place in the line while I go to sleep. I'm looking forward to participating more in the discussions in the coming days.

Canadian Fleet,
Quebec 22nd battalion
Signing out.