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EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*


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#6476
Ytook

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RagingCeltik wrote...

Just a quick thought...

Do you think that we would have felt less betrayed over the endings as long as each choice Shepard made on the citadel resulted in a wildly differently animated cutscene? Are we angrier that we feel ending makes no sense or that the ending was lazily produced (ie: one cutscene for three choices)?

Would this movement be in effect if the ending was varied enough -- even if it didn't make as much sense as we would have liked -- to warrant multiple playthroughs.


I personally feel that even if the ending had wildly different cutscenes the options given completly break away from what the series stands for both philosophically and structurally. Mass effect through all three games is about unity and the acceptance of difference, in 1 and 2 you are uniting your disperate crew for a common purpose and throughout 3 you are uniting the entire galaxy.

In the end this is completely thrown out the window, even if you ignore the massive plot holes the three options you are given are to take a level of control you spent the first game stopping Saren from having and the next two doing the same to TIM. The synthesis option is unity through uniformity, which goes completely against the philosophy of the entire series (especialy the rest of 3), in many ways you could see the fight against the reapers as the ultimate expresion of the fight against unity through uniformity. Then the destroy option has you killing all synthetic life for no reason.

On top of all that the star childs logic and the justification for the reapers is hideously flawed, not only is it a circular argument to which his reaper solution is a self fulfiling profecy anyway (don't forget that the only reason the Geth attacked Eden Prime and the citadel was because of the reapers), but the idea that synthetics will always inevitably turn on organics is proved completely false not only by every conversation you have with Legion and the Geth and the Quarians cooperation in the battle that is happening around you at that very moment but also by the conversation you have with EDI barely 5 minuets before that scene.

Add again the mechanical problems of giving people a deus ex type ending which the series has always avoided, or Shepard suddenly blindly following logic he/she know to proveably wrong.

Personally I feel the only way to fix the ending and retain what is already there is to follow the indoctrination theory, even if this was not planned (which given how well the whole theory holds together I would be very surprised if it wasn't intentional, as if they were going for an inception type ending but pulled it of terribly, or post ending content has been planned all along, possibly because of hurried re-writes) it fits perfectly and could easily then lead on to a different ending.

In my opinion I don't feel there needs to be a big 'choice' at the end, given the nature of 3's war assests system I thought that the end would be a culmination of all your choices up to that point, had you got enough military strength, had you united people, had you done enoguh to help your squad, there is no need for a big end choice. Big end choices of epic scale naturally invalidate everything you have done before (unless pulled of perfectly) as its ramifications are so huge as to eclipse or literally eradicate everything you have done previously. I think it should come down to whether you defeat the reapers, how desisive that defeat was, how costly it was, whether squad members or shepard dies and then see the effect of this and your other choices on the galaxy and the many characters you have come to know and love. No big end choice but a culmination of your narrative.

I know all this has probably been said before, but its good to vent, and thanks to anyone who gets to the end of this.

Oh, and Hold The Line!

#6477
solvill

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why BW didn't try to explain the endings, I would like to know what they mean from their point of view. How they see the endings.
I refuse for my Shep to be a mass murderer, someone count that the exploding mass releays would kill 65 billion of ppl not to count casualties in fans

edit: spelling

Modifié par solvill, 20 mars 2012 - 12:13 .


#6478
musicaleCA

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@frypan

Well, it's a good reminder to not take ourselves too seriously. Seriously, yes, but must allow for tasteful laughing at ourselves. Nice try. Little off the mark. :)

#6479
die-yng

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I've since come to understand the ending, or rather what I think was BW's motivation for this sort of ending, better, I'm still dissatisfied and I will be until the ending is only part of a line of decision tailored endings, as we were promised and as I expected when shelling out 75.- Euros for my N7 edition.

I admit, since I changed my view on the ending, into not condemning it totally, that I've started playing the game again.
I'm not planning on finishing any of the playthroughs, but will stop before the attack on the Cerberus HQ.

I'm only playing the game, with the outlook, that we will get a new ending DLC.
My stance remains the same, even though I do play again:
I will not buy any DLC before I can buy a new ending DLC (or the ending is patched for free, which would be even better). I will not buy DA 3 or SWOR (which I had definitely planned to do), or any other Bioware game/ product if we don't get new endings.

So far I believe that BW will see the light, but if they don't I'm not going to support them with even one Euro of my hard-earned cash.

#6480
mutio

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Just read on a german game site, that Bioware responded again via Facebook? On Sunday though, that game site I visit sure is slow on news..

Anyways, they are "considering" of doing a new ending, but they are still collecting opinions. For me that means now more than ever: Hold the line!

#6481
frypan

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musicaleCA wrote...

@frypan

Well, it's a good reminder to not take ourselves too seriously. Seriously, yes, but must allow for tasteful laughing at ourselves. Nice try. Little off the mark. :)


@musicaleCA. Thanks. Am in this for the long haul with everyone else, and will keep up the pressure... and will steer away from the lunatic attempts at humour until we've won.

For other folks - that gun turret on the bridge was really lazy design as far as I could see and the first real worrying sign of a bad end to the game. It loomed over the farewell scenes in a way that got to me. It was especially galling as the devs limited the last involvement of so many beloved characters to a console in a side room.

Got me a bit riled up - the stupidity of that turret sitting there heralded the point things started to fall apart..Hence the mock review putting it ahead of the story. Apologies if anyone thought I was mocking the campaign to fix things. First time forum poster so still learning the ropes.


cheers

#6482
alcatan

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Rulycar wrote...

So ... I notice there is a "Support BioWare's Mass Effect" facebook page now.
http://www.facebook....44005192318904/

Organized opposition?

... and I'm seeing pro BioWare articles popping up on Google that have no user comment section.

How is Holding the Line going?


Ha ha, there are 212 members of that facebook group

Whereas http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3 has almost 46,000 I think their PR is failing.

We Will Hold the Line!

#6483
IchikoSakura

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mutio wrote...

Just read on a german game site, that Bioware responded again via Facebook? On Sunday though, that game site I visit sure is slow on news..

Anyways, they are "considering" of doing a new ending, but they are still collecting opinions. For me that means now more than ever: Hold the line!


It was on twitter and FB saying that they don't intend on releasing an new ending DLC, which caused a uproar in both social medias, so much indeed that a major press representativ of BioWare had to adress the fans during Sunday night (Pacifc Time) that this was not an official statement. agthunter has wirten more about it, just look his posts up.

And great to see some fellow Germans on board. Keep holding the line.:happy:

#6484
DerpMcDerp

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After beeing utterly dissapointed by the end of ME3, stacked upon my dissapointment in DA2 and SWTOR I felt I had to register on these forums to voice my complaints.

I've stopped playing any Bioware/EA titles and the only thing that could make me buy another game from them is favourable COMUNITY reviews over time.

I get the feeling most of the "professional" reviewers out there never actually finnished ME3 prior to awarding it top scores.

Modifié par DerpMcDerp, 20 mars 2012 - 12:42 .


#6485
Lil One

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frypan wrote...It was especially galling as the devs limited the last involvement of so many beloved characters to a console in a side room.


I know, I almost missed that the first time around.  Then, when I did find it, I missed, well, interacting I suppose. :pinched:

#6486
MrPuschel

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Just got a complete Refound of my N7 Digital Deluxe Edition (75€/100$). Thanks to EA and a friendly Indian.

#6487
Baldurs Gate

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Find below some important links you may want to follow.

Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play ***Please Donate***

Mass Effect 3 debacle - Pre-release developer quotes

Poll About The Ending

'Official' Poll For Mass Effect 3 Ending DLC

[POLL] What exactly would you change with the ending?

EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode ***Regularly UPDATED***

Retake Mass Effect Banner Templates

Mission Statement Thread

Retake Mass Effect Group on BSN ***Please Join***

Mass Effect 3 Resource Site with collection of statements and reports

Retake Mass Effect 3 Statistics

Retake Mass Effect on Facebook

Retake Mass Effect on Youtube

Retake Mass Effect 3 Endings - Extranet Site - Resource Collector

Retake Mass Effect on Twitter
@RetakeME3

v1.13

Courtesy of DJBare

-----------

Keep it civil... and hold the line! 

Modifié par Baldurs Gate, 20 mars 2012 - 01:29 .


#6488
darkreed

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Good afternoon all,

I have posted support in this thread a couple of times, and I would like to fill in more my point of view.

Long time gamer, like from age of Elite on the Amstrad CPC 464. I have followed gaming for a long time, and from what I have been seeing in a lot of Software Devlopers in recent years, is increased visuals but at the cost of story, gameplay and contiunity.

It now feels like it is the norm for games to be released too early and then complete the game via micro transactions for DLC. I think the issue with ME3 is the first real stand with a chance to voice the comunitys issues with such a business model.

The gaming industry also looks like it is following in the footsteps of the film industry in regards in getting things out there. In recent years, there have been many multi-part films that have been wrecked due to the team being too close to the project to see what they was doing to the franchise.

In film series, Matrix and Pirates of the Carribean spring to mind. I now can not watch the first films of these series, because I always think of how the story will end over the course of the films.

I now have this problem with Mass Effect 3. I have tried to load up ME1 and ME2 to get something back from what I liked, but right now, I exit very soon after because I know, my choices dont really matter in the end.

I am here.

Hold the line

#6489
Fiannawolf

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Heres another good vid explaining plot holes and such. Along with valid reasons for disliking the ending even if you take it at face value.

#6490
DoctorCrowtgamer

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darkreed wrote...

Good afternoon all,

I have posted support in this thread a couple of times, and I would like to fill in more my point of view.

Long time gamer, like from age of Elite on the Amstrad CPC 464. I have followed gaming for a long time, and from what I have been seeing in a lot of Software Devlopers in recent years, is increased visuals but at the cost of story, gameplay and contiunity.

It now feels like it is the norm for games to be released too early and then complete the game via micro transactions for DLC. I think the issue with ME3 is the first real stand with a chance to voice the comunitys issues with such a business model.

The gaming industry also looks like it is following in the footsteps of the film industry in regards in getting things out there. In recent years, there have been many multi-part films that have been wrecked due to the team being too close to the project to see what they was doing to the franchise.

In film series, Matrix and Pirates of the Carribean spring to mind. I now can not watch the first films of these series, because I always think of how the story will end over the course of the films.

I now have this problem with Mass Effect 3. I have tried to load up ME1 and ME2 to get something back from what I liked, but right now, I exit very soon after because I know, my choices dont really matter in the end.

I am here.

Hold the line


Thank you for your help.  Thank you all.  Please remember this will not be an other night thing and we can't give up or start fighting eachother I think Bioware is going to try and stall for at least another month but when I look at what they have said on Twitter and the posts on here that I suspect are PR plants I see the actions of deperate people trying to stop a train with a small wooden cart. If we stick together we will win.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

#6491
Bunzmaster

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This is (IMO) one of the best breakdowns of why the ending is soooo poorly done:

https://docs.google....bilebasic?pli=1

Our choices should matter - Hold the line!!

#6492
mutio

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IchikoSakura wrote...

mutio wrote...

Just read on a german game site, that Bioware responded again via Facebook? On Sunday though, that game site I visit sure is slow on news..

Anyways, they are "considering" of doing a new ending, but they are still collecting opinions. For me that means now more than ever: Hold the line!


It was on twitter and FB saying that they don't intend on releasing an new ending DLC, which caused a uproar in both social medias, so much indeed that a major press representativ of BioWare had to adress the fans during Sunday night (Pacifc Time) that this was not an official statement. agthunter has wirten more about it, just look his posts up.

And great to see some fellow Germans on board. Keep holding the line.:happy:


Ah ok, thanks for the info! Guess Gamestar isn't the best site to look then ;) And nice to see you too :) 

Modifié par mutio, 20 mars 2012 - 01:14 .


#6493
punkenjunki3

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alcatan wrote...

Rulycar wrote...

So ... I notice there is a "Support BioWare's Mass Effect" facebook page now.
http://www.facebook....44005192318904/

Organized opposition?

... and I'm seeing pro BioWare articles popping up on Google that have no user comment section.

How is Holding the Line going?


Ha ha, there are 212 members of that facebook group

Whereas http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3 has almost 46,000 I think their PR is failing.

We Will Hold the Line!


Their internets is weak.

But seriously all the power to them they have the right to an opinion just as us, infact im happy that they got the closure they needed from it, I truly am.

But if the situation was anything else, any product that did not meet the consumers satisfaction there would be no problem in a return or a fix for it. This in my eyes is no different, the endly simply tried to be too abstract and it alienated the players who have devoted so much time (and money) into the story and not seeing a return at the end is simply heart breaking.

Be nice, civil and polite. I notice on our FB group some randoms have posted against us. I would advise anyone against doing that to the pro-ending FB group...i dont think whoever it was is affiliated with them. Regardless, keep the civility, thats our edge here.

Hold the line.

#6494
Salyut

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Ytook wrote...

I personally feel that even if the ending had wildly different cutscenes the options given completly break away from what the series stands for both philosophically and structurally. Mass effect through all three games is about unity and the acceptance of difference, in 1 and 2 you are uniting your disperate crew for a common purpose and throughout 3 you are uniting the entire galaxy.

In the end this is completely thrown out the window, even if you ignore the massive plot holes the three options you are given are to take a level of control you spent the first game stopping Saren from having and the next two doing the same to TIM. The synthesis option is unity through uniformity, which goes completely against the philosophy of the entire series (especialy the rest of 3), in many ways you could see the fight against the reapers as the ultimate expresion of the fight against unity through uniformity. Then the destroy option has you killing all synthetic life for no reason.

On top of all that the star childs logic and the justification for the reapers is hideously flawed, not only is it a circular argument to which his reaper solution is a self fulfiling profecy anyway (don't forget that the only reason the Geth attacked Eden Prime and the citadel was because of the reapers), but the idea that synthetics will always inevitably turn on organics is proved completely false not only by every conversation you have with Legion and the Geth and the Quarians cooperation in the battle that is happening around you at that very moment but also by the conversation you have with EDI barely 5 minuets before that scene.

Add again the mechanical problems of giving people a deus ex type ending which the series has always avoided, or Shepard suddenly blindly following logic he/she know to proveably wrong.

Personally I feel the only way to fix the ending and retain what is already there is to follow the indoctrination theory, even if this was not planned (which given how well the whole theory holds together I would be very surprised if it wasn't intentional, as if they were going for an inception type ending but pulled it of terribly, or post ending content has been planned all along, possibly because of hurried re-writes) it fits perfectly and could easily then lead on to a different ending.

In my opinion I don't feel there needs to be a big 'choice' at the end, given the nature of 3's war assests system I thought that the end would be a culmination of all your choices up to that point, had you got enough military strength, had you united people, had you done enoguh to help your squad, there is no need for a big end choice. Big end choices of epic scale naturally invalidate everything you have done before (unless pulled of perfectly) as its ramifications are so huge as to eclipse or literally eradicate everything you have done previously. I think it should come down to whether you defeat the reapers, how desisive that defeat was, how costly it was, whether squad members or shepard dies and then see the effect of this and your other choices on the galaxy and the many characters you have come to know and love. No big end choice but a culmination of your narrative.

I know all this has probably been said before, but its good to vent, and thanks to anyone who gets to the end of this.

Oh, and Hold The Line!


I just want to say I agree completly with this post. Does it make me angry that we got a complete lack of choices? Yes, of course. But even varied endings would still upset me if each and every one goes against all the central themes of the ME series.

My paragon shep believed in strength and unity through diversity. The entire trilogy allowed my shep to be played like that (council decisions/Cerberus and TIM discussions/EDI talks/geth-quarian conflict/etc). So why do the endings as they are now invalidate my entire playthrough by suddenly saying "synthetics are bad and so is diversity".
Not to mention the completely unexplained space magic in a universe that had an otherwise pretty solid lore that was only broken every now and then for gameplay reasons or 'rule of cool'.

#6495
punkenjunki3

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BBC article up on the game and the movement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

Id say its pretty neutral just saying whats going on as opposed to putting any kind of opinion on it

#6496
Michotic

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Baldurs Gate wrote...


Find below some important links you may want to follow.

[Snipped for length]

Keep it civil... and hold the line! 


Excellent job compiling that information. Has anyone PMed this to Bachuck to update the front page?

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

#6497
Michotic

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punkenjunki3 wrote...

BBC article up on the game and the movement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

Id say its pretty neutral just saying whats going on as opposed to putting any kind of opinion on it


Good read. I like how it doesn't forget to include other points of view on this topic, and it doesn't try to define any group. It's just reporting. Good show!

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

#6498
Salyut

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punkenjunki3 wrote...

BBC article up on the game and the movement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

Id say its pretty neutral just saying whats going on as opposed to putting any kind of opinion on it


Nice! That's a pretty good article. I wonder how many news outlets will pick up this story before it's over. I've seen several dutch sites like nu.nl and de volkskrant report on it too. Nothing big, just a few lines. But it's still something.

#6499
Fallenfromthesky

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punkenjunki3 wrote...

BBC article up on the game and the movement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

Id say its pretty neutral just saying whats going on as opposed to putting any kind of opinion on it


We are on the BBC hell yeah. This is exactly the kind on even responce that can be a massive help in communicating our views to the mainsteam non-gamers. I will not be suprised if this gets a mention on the televised news even if its in a tiny way

Hold the Line

#6500
Nurane

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punkenjunki3 wrote...

BBC article up on the game and the movement:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

Id say its pretty neutral just saying whats going on as opposed to putting any kind of opinion on it


First: wow, it made the BBC?

Second (from the BBC article): 

Mr Sobcyzk called for a downloadable patch to be made available to add additional endings. On gaming forums, fans of the series have complained that no matter how "good" you are during the game, the ending is still a sad one.


It seems to be a common misconception that the complaint is about a sad ending. I wish there was a way to clarify that the sadness of the ending is not the main issue.