9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

Well, I'm back to hold the line. Seems like we continue to make a lot of progress on the media and financial fronts. Good job everyone!

Our choices should matter - Hold the Line.

[cyrrant]

Can someone find me a link to the post that has all the quotes from Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble with links to their sources? I'm going to use them when I write the BBC about their article. I'd do it myself, but I am trying to keep track of the boards and answer calls for work at the same time, and it's about all I can do to just hold the line at this time.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

[Diesel McBadass]

I'm okay with a shepard dying ending, but it has to feel heroic, many good game charcters have died. John marston went down making a final stand. We didnt ask for a new ending even though that game was sad. Cause it felt right, it was epic. Shepard on the other hand, well, the whole ending was terrible.

I was so mad today that i saw my galactic readiness dropping....not only did i have to play MP, i have to keep playing it. Im replaying me1, then me2, they are at least satisfying games throughout. Maybe save kaiden this time for a new perspective. Then by the time ive replayed right up to before assulting TIM's base a new dlc is out.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Nightfire78 wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

...

If you chose the
hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the
rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension
of it or it's message.  If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace
between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being
set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be
left intact and able to rebuild.  Get people to work together for just
one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in
this type of story.  If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's
doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a
happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost
three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and
put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a
better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away
even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain
intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of
the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes
the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at
it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih
to follow through on.

This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.

Anyone else agree?

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

Agree. (Edited your post down a bit so as not to produce too many huge walls of text)

And it certainly doesn't help that (in addition to there being only one type of ending available no matter how you played the character so that it jars with the foreshadowing, as you said) the supposed "bittersweet" ending now just doesn't make any sense within the rules of the universe that was created and it's implications are only bitter, but it's hard to even feel saddness over the bitter (yes, bitter, there is no bittersweet) end your struggle took because it makes no sense.

Really I don't see the ending being happy or not being the main issue, but I also don't see why people make it sound like wanting a happy/happier ending is somehow bizarre and wrong. It would be, like so amny things in the game, the player's choice; why should anyone be upset over people wanting to increase choice in a franchise that's been all about choice form day one?

Anyhoo, wrote more than I intended. Mainly meant to say you've got a good point

Hold the line!

Thanks.  I was thinking about why I was so upset with the ending and those thoughts came to me in the shower so I had to race out and type them down while they were still fresh in my head.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[The Big Palooka]

Ytook wrote...

[....]

In my opinion I don't feel there needs to be a big 'choice' at the end, given the nature of 3's war assests system I thought that the end would be a culmination of all your choices up to that point, had you got enough military strength, had you united people, had you done enoguh to help your squad, there is no need for a big end choice. Big end choices of epic scale naturally invalidate everything you have done before (unless pulled of perfectly) as its ramifications are so huge as to eclipse or literally eradicate everything you have done previously. I think it should come down to whether you defeat the reapers, how desisive that defeat was, how costly it was, whether squad members or shepard dies and then see the effect of this and your other choices on the galaxy and the many characters you have come to know and love. No big end choice but a culmination of your narrative.

I know all this has probably been said before, but its good to vent, and thanks to anyone who gets to the end of this.

Oh, and Hold The Line!

Just wanted to say I think this is an excellent point and I couldn't agree more.  After three games worth of decisions, I think it's very telling that you can load a save file from the last fifteen minutes of the game and from that point make the story turn out entirely differently (ignoring how similar the cutscenes actually are - we all know by now it was the "implications" we were supposed to consider wildly different). 

Call me crazy, but I think it would've been deeply more satisfying and, in fact, a much bolder move on Bioware's part to make the last fifteen minutes of the game much less affected by our choices in the moment and more affected by all the choices we'd made in the past.  That was the point, wasn't it?  We lit so many different fuses during this series.  Showing us who we were able to unite and whose personal story we were able to bring closure to doesn't mean much when the whole point in doing any of those things was to determine who would be at our side during the final battle, even if only in spirit or influence.  No, those fuses are just left burning and we wanted to see the fireworks from them.  No chance of that, though, since instead of our own personal display of fireworks, we just get to pick which bomb we want to drop and wipe out the whole ending at once.

[Parrk]

I think we need to be more deliberate in conveying precisely what not fixing this will mean to the company's future sales. Those of us who are passionate about this will likely never buy another Bioware game again, or at least will be far more careful in doing so.

I am glad to see that more and more disappointed fans are reaching the point where they are comfortable in their role as legitimately disappointed customers. We have seen the death of "entitlement" theory over the past week, which was one of their greatest weapons against us. This is due as much to individuals having the resolve to outright reject the efforts to silence them as it does with some of the would-be "entitlement oppressors" having realized that, given their reliance on page views to sustain ongoing operations, it was perhaps not wise to participate in a subversion offensive against those who provide said page views.

This entire conflict is amazing and ultimately beneficial in that we are being allowed more candid views of what is normally kept out of view. I have never found kotaku or ign to be reliable sources of information on games, but for others it takes a situation like this to understand exactly where those entities stand in relation to their readers.

Likewise, we have seen parties that were never directly linked to this struggle come forward with what could easily be seen as anti-gamer messages for no other reason than to take advantage of the heat of the moment to generate conflict-related page views. PC Mag falls into this group.

If nothing else, this conflict has given us the gift of better understanding exactly who our enemies are.

Whatever comes of this; whether Bioware actually does make it right with fans, or simply recedes from view for some time to regroup and solidify their blockades, this war is won as long as we never forget and never forgive. The willingness to forgive is a positive attribute when applied to interpersonal relationships. There is no associated grace in the forgiveness of corporations because the death of week or subversive organizations only serves to strengthen the position of those who remain.

I do have a list of sites that jumped into this conflict unnecessarily screaming entitlement and I am committed to doing what I can in the future to ensure that no one ever forgets that they stood against gamers when it mattered in order to gain favor with EA. Likewise I will also take steps to support those who have taken our side. It is worth restating that when most of hte gaming press were busy calling us babies, it was Forbes that came to our aid. I will not forget that.

There were those who took a balanced approach, and we need to ensure as best we can that we respect their views. RPS is my favorite site, and although I was disappointed that they did not share my views, they took care to state their opinions as just that, and took care to steer clear of any aggressive posture. I will continue to support them.

Regardless of what bioware chooses, we each determine whether we have won or lost based on how we behave in the future. If it were/is the case that a significant percentage of Bioware fans feel as I do, then should they choose not to make this right then they should significantly adjust their expectations for not only ME3 DLC, but also for DA3 (which already suffers from the residual bad will they created in their mismanagement of that franchise) and associated dlc for that title.

Not being an FPS player, or a sports game enthusiast, I am in a position where I can commit easily to a boycott of all EA brands going forward. If you are in the same boat, make a point of emphasizing that bleed-over. This conflict should be regarded as representing our outrage against any and all companies who have shafted their fans.

Perhaps we could work towards the creation of a gaming-specific subsection of the Consumerist site where we can work towards adding longevity to this groundswell customer solidarity. Firstly, and most importantly, we must each resolve to never forget, and to not ever forgive unless those many companies and sites who have stood against us, called us babies and tried to brainwash us into believe that our thoughts are not valid, make it right.

[The Big Palooka]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

New threads keep dropping back to page 7  or 8 so if no one minds I am going to post this here because I am proud of it and I want people to see it.

It's the reasons I think a happy ending option is just as valid and logical an ending for the series as the bleak options we were given.

[...]

I think you make some very good points, and I like the examples you chose.  And I think you're right - for those of us who were not playing Shepard as a tragic hero, the endings clash very badly with the rest of the game.  In my opinion, though, even if you were playing a a straight-up Renegade, Ruthless background, whatever you please, the endings still wouldn't fit, because in that case, Shepard's behavior is far, far too passive.  Either way, the shoehorning is very obvious and abrasive.

[Ubergrog]

Look, in the end, as players, we have one of two options.

Option A. We take Bioware's word and trust that they have "something" up their sleeve.

Option B. We discard their word and suspect that they are in PR defense mode.


Right now, Every video game news outlet and several reputable news outlets like the BBC and Forbes have gone so far as to cover this. I expect that right now, the one responsible for the final ending is counting the days he/she/it will remain employed. Game companies live and die on the backs of their fans, this level of unified hate can knock over seemingly invincible companies.

What did we learn here? never let your company be purchased by EA games.

Modifié par Ubergrog, 20 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[Zaknaberrnon]

cyrrant wrote...

Can someone find me a link to the post that has all the quotes from Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble with links to their sources? I'm going to use them when I write the BBC about their article. I'd do it myself, but I am trying to keep track of the boards and answer calls for work at the same time, and it's about all I can do to just hold the line at this time.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

ME3 pre-release developer quotes -with sources- :

http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Modifié par Zaknaberrnon, 20 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[cynicalandbored]

They haven't really told us anything for a few days. We want feedback since we gave you so much of it already!

[KevShep]

Ubergrog wrote...

Look, in the end, as players, we have one of two options.

Option A. We take Bioware's word and trust that they have "something" up their sleeve.

Option B. We discard their word and suspect that they are in PR defense mode.


Right now, Every video game news outlet and several reputable news outlets like the BBC and Forbes have gone so far as to cover this. I expect that right now, the one responsible for the final ending is counting the days he/she/it will remain employed. Game companies live and die on the backs of their fans, this level of unified hate can knock over seemingly invincible companies.

What did we learn here? never let your company be purchased by EA games.

Option C. Hold...the...Line!

[Xellith]

No idea if this has been posted. we got on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17444719

Modifié par Xellith, 20 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[SeanThen1]

Read through most of the OP. The only thing that struck me as odd is how someone as well educated on these matters as him would think that the N7 weekend wasn't planned WAY in advance. That was quite obviously something in the works pre-game release.

[Maglor07]

Having read what Drew Karpyshyn had in mind for the game, I can only say that I'm even more disappointed in the present ending(s).
Gotta say that I kind of suspected that this would happen after I learned he pulled out of ME3 to go work on SwToR.

Sending my patch to EA today and holding the line.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

The Big Palooka wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

New threads keep dropping back to page 7  or 8 so if no one minds I am going to post this here because I am proud of it and I want people to see it.

It's the reasons I think a happy ending option is just as valid and logical an ending for the series as the bleak options we were given.

[...]

I think you make some very good points, and I like the examples you chose.  And I think you're right - for those of us who were not playing Shepard as a tragic hero, the endings clash very badly with the rest of the game.  In my opinion, though, even if you were playing a a straight-up Renegade, Ruthless background, whatever you please, the endings still wouldn't fit, because in that case, Shepard's behavior is far, far too passive.  Either way, the shoehorning is very obvious and abrasive.

Yeah thanks.  As I said I think the destroy option would ahve made sense if say in game one the Reapers could only come back with the aid of some sort of device Shepard was warned not to start it up but for reasons of his own he did any way and he choose the Geth over the Quarians instead of making peace because they had something he needed at the moment.  Then the situation would have been created by him and dieing taking out the Reapers and the Geth would have made sense as an ending.  Bioware can say this is the ending they had in mind from the start but i don't believe them,if it was they needed to set it up better.

Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Michotic]

Ubergrog wrote...

Look, in the end, as players, we have one of two options.

Option A. We take Bioware's word and trust that they have "something" up their sleeve.

Option B. We discard their word and suspect that they are in PR defense mode.


Right now, Every video game news outlet and several reputable news outlets like the BBC and Forbes have gone so far as to cover this. I expect that right now, the one responsible for the final ending is counting the days he/she/it will remain employed. Game companies live and die on the backs of their fans, this level of unified hate can knock over seemingly invincible companies.

What did we learn here? never let your company be purchased by EA games.

Until I see 100% commitment from BW/EA, I'm not budging from my position.

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[Bachuck]

Good Morning,

I hope you're all well. As for myself, I'm feeling a bit better today but still not at 100% so I"ll be taking it slow. I'll be working on the OP on the first page to get it up to speed and formatted correctly, so what I need from all of you are links to posts, videos, articles, etc., that you feel should be added to the OP. Some people did this yesterday and I'm thankful to them.

Send me a PM with what you have.

Thank you.
BaChuck

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Ubergrog wrote...

Look, in the end, as players, we have one of two options.

Option A. We take Bioware's word and trust that they have "something" up their sleeve.

Option B. We discard their word and suspect that they are in PR defense mode.


Right now, Every video game news outlet and several reputable news outlets like the BBC and Forbes have gone so far as to cover this. I expect that right now, the one responsible for the final ending is counting the days he/she/it will remain employed. Game companies live and die on the backs of their fans, this level of unified hate can knock over seemingly invincible companies.

What did we learn here? never let your company be purchased by EA games.

Bioware has lied in the past so many times I don't trus them.  They have to get my trust back with actions not words.  the two actions they have to take to get my trust back are.

1)releasing a patch that makes it so I don't need MP to get all SP endings.

and

2)releasing a patch with new endings that reflect and make sense given the choices we made in all three games.

Until then Bioware and Ea do not get a cent of my money.
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.

[Jsixgun]

If we want to get more recognition for our "cause" (As Stanley Woo would write it- the quotation marks obviously calling into question the usage of the word) we should all go to the Drudge Report & Huffington Post and submit a tip at the bottom right of the page. Both are the most viewed news aggregate sites in the world.

I think Gamer's unhappy with an ending raising a lot of money for charity is an interesting story. If they get enough tips they will to!

[Baldurs Gate]

Find below some important links you may want to follow.

Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play ***Please Donate***

Mass Effect 3 debacle - Pre-release developer quotes

Poll About The Ending

'Official' Poll For Mass Effect 3 Ending DLC

[POLL] What exactly would you change with the ending?

EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode ***Regularly UPDATED***

Retake Mass Effect Banner Templates

Mission Statement Thread

Retake Mass Effect Group on BSN ***Please Join***

Mass Effect 3 Resource Site with collection of statements and reports

Retake Mass Effect 3 Statistics

Retake Mass Effect on Facebook

Retake Mass Effect on Youtube

Retake Mass Effect 3 Endings - Extranet Site - Resource Collector

Retake Mass Effect on Twitter
@RetakeME3

v1.13

Courtesy of DJBare

-----------


Some more interesting links:

Reviews:

Angry Joe's top 10 reasons to hate the ME3 ending

ME3 endings comparison

Jeremy Jahns ending review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4

www.youtube.com/watch 


Inspirational stuff:

The Commander Shepard song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiRDJLcYua0
The Hold the Line video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JspE9ctseIU
Commander Shepard is still a jerk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjTuSQNLI4


Satire and Parody:

ME3 Recontextualised
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIimukNeAE
Mass Deffect 7 Shepard's Reaction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYLTbQQEZQ&feature=related
The Animal House ending
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iNJXrHA_I
Mass Deffect Monster Reaper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyoev5RzO_w

www.youtube.com/watch 


Articles for Reading:
docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview
www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html 

Twitter:

HarbytheReaper
https://twitter.com/#!/HarbyTheReaper


Courtesy of Iucounou  and NightFire78

---------

Keep it civil and Hold the Line!

Modifié par Baldurs Gate, 20 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[Hicks233]

Parrk wrote...

I think we need to be more deliberate in conveying precisely what not fixing this will mean to the company's future sales. Those of us who are passionate about this will likely never buy another Bioware game again, or at least will be far more careful in doing so.

I am glad to see that more and more disappointed fans are reaching the point where they are comfortable in their role as legitimately disappointed customers. We have seen the death of "entitlement" theory over the past week, which was one of their greatest weapons against us. This is due as much to individuals having the resolve to outright reject the efforts to silence them as it does with some of the would-be "entitlement oppressors" having realized that, given their reliance on page views to sustain ongoing operations, it was perhaps not wise to participate in a subversion offensive against those who provide said page views.

This entire conflict is amazing and ultimately beneficial in that we are being allowed more candid views of what is normally kept out of view. I have never found kotaku or ign to be reliable sources of information on games, but for others it takes a situation like this to understand exactly where those entities stand in relation to their readers.

Likewise, we have seen parties that were never directly linked to this struggle come forward with what could easily be seen as anti-gamer messages for no other reason than to take advantage of the heat of the moment to generate conflict-related page views. PC Mag falls into this group.

If nothing else, this conflict has given us the gift of better understanding exactly who our enemies are.

Whatever comes of this; whether Bioware actually does make it right with fans, or simply recedes from view for some time to regroup and solidify their blockades, this war is won as long as we never forget and never forgive. The willingness to forgive is a positive attribute when applied to interpersonal relationships. There is no associated grace in the forgiveness of corporations because the death of week or subversive organizations only serves to strengthen the position of those who remain.

I do have a list of sites that jumped into this conflict unnecessarily screaming entitlement and I am committed to doing what I can in the future to ensure that no one ever forgets that they stood against gamers when it mattered in order to gain favor with EA. Likewise I will also take steps to support those who have taken our side. It is worth restating that when most of hte gaming press were busy calling us babies, it was Forbes that came to our aid. I will not forget that.

There were those who took a balanced approach, and we need to ensure as best we can that we respect their views. RPS is my favorite site, and although I was disappointed that they did not share my views, they took care to state their opinions as just that, and took care to steer clear of any aggressive posture. I will continue to support them.

Regardless of what bioware chooses, we each determine whether we have won or lost based on how we behave in the future. If it were/is the case that a significant percentage of Bioware fans feel as I do, then should they choose not to make this right then they should significantly adjust their expectations for not only ME3 DLC, but also for DA3 (which already suffers from the residual bad will they created in their mismanagement of that franchise) and associated dlc for that title.

Not being an FPS player, or a sports game enthusiast, I am in a position where I can commit easily to a boycott of all EA brands going forward. If you are in the same boat, make a point of emphasizing that bleed-over. This conflict should be regarded as representing our outrage against any and all companies who have shafted their fans.

Perhaps we could work towards the creation of a gaming-specific subsection of the Consumerist site where we can work towards adding longevity to this groundswell customer solidarity. Firstly, and most importantly, we must each resolve to never forget, and to not ever forgive unless those many companies and sites who have stood against us, called us babies and tried to brainwash us into believe that our thoughts are not valid, make it right.

Perfectly put. If a company is going to advertise. Make sure your product lives up to its claims. Fix a product and consumers will be wary yes, but likely to forgive.

[Kyuso]

Thank you for this fascinating analysis. While an avid gamer I am part of that silent majority that generally does not get involved in things like this. In fact, I created this account specifically to get involved. I am certainly not a long time forum participator, and I'll probably go back to being quite anonymous when the whole thing is done, but for now, I am doing what I can.

Thank you for this great work!

[RangedPuppet]

An interesting article, apologies if already posted...

http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/

[Jamie9]

Kyuso wrote...

Thank you for this fascinating analysis. While an avid gamer I am part of that silent majority that generally does not get involved in things like this. In fact, I created this account specifically to get involved. I am certainly not a long time forum participator, and I'll probably go back to being quite anonymous when the whole thing is done, but for now, I am doing what I can.

Thank you for this great work!

Welcome! It is so nice in the face of such an unfortunate event - the ending - to see people from all walks of life step up and speak their opinions. The most simple thing you can do is not buy any DLC for this game unless it is to fix the ending - it does not require any effort and actually saves you money!

As one gamer to another, I thank you for speaking up. One more voice is all it takes.

Our choices should matter - Hold the Line.

[Damate]

Update: N7 Patches

Short and sweet: I went ahead and created a group on this subject:
http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Anyone interested, please feel free to join and spread the word.
And that's that, for the sake of not diluting the original purpose of this thread in a side project.