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EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode *UPDATED 3/22/12, 5:28 PM UTC/GMT -4 hours*


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#6551
cyrrant

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Kyuso wrote...

Thank you for this fascinating analysis. While an avid gamer I am part of that silent majority that generally does not get involved in things like this. In fact, I created this account specifically to get involved. I am certainly not a long time forum participator, and I'll probably go back to being quite anonymous when the whole thing is done, but for now, I am doing what I can.

Thank you for this great work!


Welcome the the BSN.  All of us are here because we love Mass Effect, and we have faith that together we can get Bioware to make this right.  I don't know how you personally feel about the endings, but a lot of us here are in various stages of greiving, and if you are as well, then hopefully you can find some solace among the rest of us.

There's a fantastic list just up the thread (social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/262#10315331) compiled by Baldurs Gate that has a ton of links to places where you can get involved.  If I might specifically point out a couple of them:

Like the facebook group here: www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3
Donate to Child's Play in support of the cause: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9845819/1

After that, I'd say the best thing you can do is head out into the BSN and make your voice heard.  Be sure to check back in here on the forums a couple times a day and at least make a quick post, remind Bioware that while you might not be in front of your computer 24/7, you are paying attention to what's going on, and you won't be ignored.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

Modifié par cyrrant, 20 mars 2012 - 02:59 .


#6552
Nightfire78

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shygravel wrote...

...

Furthermore: If this was a movie or a book or a play, I'd be far less crushed by the endings. Why? Because those mediums aren't interactive. I don't go to a movie expecting to be able to make the choices for the protagonist. I don't read books expecting to choose what characters make it and which don't. I accept what the author/director/etc presents before me because I knew I was only along for the ride the whole time -- I may not agree, I may not like it, but I knew what I was getting into.
Mass Effect is interactive entertainment. It is artful - it is often heartbreakingly artful - but it was never presented as a static show of the developers vision. All along we were told it was story that would fluidly change from player to player based on their choices. To have any sense that those choices mattered ripped away at the end leaves me feeling manipulated and lied to; it makes all the time I poured in feel retroactively cheapened. Part of the very art of Mass Effect was the wonderful personalization/customization Bioware wove and enabled and in the end the 'art' shifts context. For some of us it's just muddled and lost.

...



Cut the quote down a bit again to save space (and make it clearer what I'm replying to :P)

I just wanted to say that there is also an element of audience involvement in the media you listed, especially in films and plays. Films are routinely screened for a test audience "focus group" to see how people react to it. Many, I dare say most, films go into a re-edit after these screenings to adjust things that are not having the desired effect or commented on negatively. Even endings have been edited or re-shot based on feedback from focus groups.

The best example for plays is actually Shakespeare. There are multiple versions of many of his plays because he edited them according to what was working/not working for the audience (and of course he had to make some changes here and there based on political climate changes, but that's another topic entirely). A great many poets and playwrites adjusted their art to better fit the desires of their patrons or audience.

For books of course, there's the already frequently mentioned Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories where he un-killed Sherlock based on popular demand (and the literary world is unanimously thrilled that people talked him out of quitting the Sherlock Holmes stories).

Even painters have adjusted their paintings (including painting over things they had originally painted) because their patrons had different preferences.

So really, the desire and request for a change on a consumer-oriented artistic product is not as "new" or "out there" as people are making it out to be, but games are a "new" kind of consumer-oriented artistic product in the grand scheme of things. They're complicated... a little bit book, a little bit painting, a little bit play/movie and then you throw in the direct involvement of the audience in shaping the experience...

Even newer is the ability to change the product on a large scale after it has been delivered through the internet and DLC and the more prevalent use of expansions. Add in the fact that people are by nature inclined to resist change and you've got the situation we have now.

There is nothing wrong with the idea of the audience requesting change, not even anything really new about it if you look at older media, but it's new in this newer medium because it's only recently even become possible.

Back in the day of King's Quest 1 it was already amazing that the little square pixel dude actually walked where you wanted him to go (so that you could basically solve puzzles as intended because something as complex as choice just wasn't really an option yet). Adding content was really not realistically doable and the direct interaction allowed through the internet and forums like these today just didn't exist on a grand scale.
Still, even then people made it known when they felt a beloved franchise had strayed, but it could only effect the next installment in the series.

Today real time feedback and the capabilities for real time adjustment on a large scale (both possible because of the internet) create entirely different possibilities. The question is, will Bioware overcome the very human tendency to fear change, or will they be the forerunners of a change that almost *has* to happen (because the audience-feedback-based alterations exist in all the other media as well, but it's actually even easier to do with games...)

#6553
Jsixgun

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I sent news tips to the Drudge Report and the Huffington Post. You go do the same!

#6554
oneword

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cyrrant wrote...

Can someone find me a link to the post that has all the quotes from Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble with links to their sources? I'm going to use them when I write the BBC about their article. I'd do it myself, but I am trying to keep track of the boards and answer calls for work at the same time, and it's about all I can do to just hold the line at this time.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line


I belive this is it:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

#6555
Utopianus

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Just a little something for some laughter - www.youtube.com/watch

It is not exactly a parody, just someone poking fun at femshep's run animation and a good hearty laugh. They say that laughter is contagious :lol:

Enjoy the laughter and Hold The Line!

#6556
Lupus Canivus

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RangedPuppet wrote...

An interesting article, apologies if already posted...

http://www.unigamesi...ia-fail-gamers/




Thanks RangedPuppet, it was an interesting article. And as he points out the "gaming media" has made fools of themselves while trying to belittle us, like IGN.


Hold the line!

#6557
Narsilsword

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I've seen a lot of game Journalists refer to us as "pissed" about the ending. Some of them havn't even done any research into the arguments of fans. They merely speculate and assume that we are undeserving malcontents.
I'm astounded at the sloppy journalism from such individuals

#6558
cyrrant

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oneword wrote...

cyrrant wrote...

Can someone find me a link to the post that has all the quotes from Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble with links to their sources? I'm going to use them when I write the BBC about their article. I'd do it myself, but I am trying to keep track of the boards and answer calls for work at the same time, and it's about all I can do to just hold the line at this time.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line


I belive this is it:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1




That's exactly it, thank you.

#6559
pomrink

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Guy this was on BBC!

#6560
Jamie9

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Does anyone feel much more empowered, not only as a consumer, but as a human being after seeing this?

It feels like you can actually make a difference, and even if you fail, something good came out of it. And then you can try for the next thing. This whole thing, it has just inspired me.

Thank you fellow gamers.

#6561
Harbinger of Fun

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pomrink wrote...

Guy this was on BBC!


Link?

#6562
Jamie9

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Harbinger of Fun wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Guy this was on BBC!


Link?


http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

#6563
Carnage752

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Narsilsword wrote...

I've seen a lot of game Journalists refer to us as "pissed" about the ending. Some of them havn't even done any research into the arguments of fans. They merely speculate and assume that we are undeserving malcontents.
I'm astounded at the sloppy journalism from such individuals

Unfortunate, but expected. We have to contact these sites and give them the REAL reasons why we are angry.

A Gamefromt article related the FTC guy to us. I commented to ask him to fix said misconception.

#6564
Vap0ur_Snake

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atghunter wrote...

Razorsteel wrote...

@ATGhunter, i'm jealous you have a C-64 and I only have a TRS-80 with a cassette drive. :D

Choices Do Matter- Hold The Line


Oh Trash 80, how we loved you. Posted Image


I used to have a c-64, it was my first ever computer. 

Sprry I've been away all day people. Gonna read through as much as I can and try and catch up though. 

HOLD THE LINE. 

#6565
Syrellaris

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Robhuzz wrote...

elsunga wrote...

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Rulycar wrote...

"First Mass Effect 3 multiplayer challenge brings down 3M Brutes, free DLC coming"
by Lydia Sung Monday, March 9, 2012
http://www.neoseeker...ree-dlc-coming/

NEOSEEKER:Shogun says ...
... I probably killed 300 by myself playing nonstop at silver chasing brutes all weekend LOL they better reward us well for all our time and beating x3 their gap


Okay, lets do the math ...
3000000/300=10000 multiplayers for the big Goliath weekend (give or take).
... and that around 3 weeks after launch?

Are those really the numbers you want people to see, EA/BioWare?

Just sayin'

I'm not surprised that Operation Goliath was a sucess.

ME3 Multiplayer is geared towards people coming over from Gears of War and Call of Duty.
In other words: Those who care the very least about story.

So I'm hardly surprised the ending didn't scare them off


Nothing but PR.


Indeed. It's actually pretty funny seeing EA/BioWare trying to turn back this (well deserved) sh*tstorm with regular pr talks and manipulated figures.:lol: They shall not succeed.




If you are going to make redicioules claims, at least back them up with proof....

Soo....proof?

#6566
Carnage752

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Jamie9 wrote...

Does anyone feel much more empowered, not only as a consumer, but as a human being after seeing this?

It feels like you can actually make a difference, and even if you fail, something good came out of it. And then you can try for the next thing. This whole thing, it has just inspired me.

Thank you fellow gamers.

Exactly! We may be labeled as entitled fans, but we know we are going to make a difference whether we win or lose.

Hold the line men! Hold the line!

#6567
Luiginius

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If the person who contacted bbc happens to see this. "virtual pat on the back & handshake"
kudos

#6568
cyrrant

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Jamie9 wrote...

Harbinger of Fun wrote...

pomrink wrote...

Guy this was on BBC!


Link?


http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719


That's the link, and here's a link to their style, accuracy, and grammar form: news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ifs/hi/newsid_4000000/newsid_4000500/4000537.stm

I suggest everyone go and fill it out, link the article, and tell them that it's not just about the happy ending (I want a full spectrum of endings), but that we're consumers who are dissatisfied with a product and have this as our only outlet, because the gaming industry is one where a product cannot be returned for a refund (under normal circumstances), which is the usual way a customer lodges their disapproval.

Our Choices Should Matter - Hold the Line

#6569
Damate

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Nightfire78 wrote...

shygravel wrote...
*Snip* My original post: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/261#10313692 *snip*


*snip* Nightfire's response: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/263#10315942 *snip*


Excellent points, Nightfire. And I agree that any kind of artistic meadium undergoing changes/rewrites/additions in response to public reaction isn't anything 'new'. Part of art - especially art for profit, lets face it - is finding the balance between artistic vision and reaching/connecting with ones audience. For me the difference is that it would take a lot for me, personally, to... oh, say, write an author and request a rewrite to how they chose to end a book or series. My mind set is simply different in regards to such mediums: I either like it or I don't and I go into it expecting to be a spectator. I may become emotionally invested, but I'm still a spectator.

Games like ME ask us not just to spectate but participate. Not just in shooting things and getting through each battle, but in taking the story where we'd like it to go. It lures us in with promises of the ability to make our own choices and weave our own story in meaningful ways that amount of dicernably different outcomes. Which was sadly - sorely - lacking in ME3's ending.

When I go to the cinema I buy a ticket on a gamble that the film I watch will entertain me in some form. If it doesn't, ah well -- gamble lost.
If I'd purchased ME3 and played out an ending full of all the different choices and impactful closure/representation of all those choices and stories -- then I would have gotten what I paid for, irregardless of whteher or not there were nuiances I liked or not. But, saddly, I didn't get that kind of (marketed, advertised, promised) ending. I got confusion and the distinct feeling that it wouldn't matter how I played any of the games or what choices I made... it would all end up in the same way, A, B or C.

And, again, it's only because I love the game(s) so much up until a jarring and destructive (to the game/series, imo) ending that I care to put effort towards getting it fixed. I do believe that Bioware cares about what their fans think. I do believe they are listening. I do believe they've delivered some of the best games and stories out there. That's why I'm letting them know how much better this ending can be and how much I'd appreciate seeing changes/additions/answers/closure.

I don't know what it'll amount to, but for now I choose to hope in the best.

....aaaaaaand my reponse sort of derailed and meandered and then, I dunno... yeah. Hrm. Perhaps letting the blood back into the caffiene stream now... :blush:

#6570
shephard987

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Carnage752 wrote...

Narsilsword wrote...

I've seen a lot of game Journalists refer to us as "pissed" about the ending. Some of them havn't even done any research into the arguments of fans. They merely speculate and assume that we are undeserving malcontents.
I'm astounded at the sloppy journalism from such individuals

Unfortunate, but expected. We have to contact these sites and give them the REAL reasons why we are angry.

A Gamefromt article related the FTC guy to us. I commented to ask him to fix said misconception.


I think that it is up to us to bring these misconceptions to light.
I think that wheneve we see said misconceptions, we should send the author a message hoping
to show that we're not as pissed as other people are calling us. 
IF we don't take steps to change the view of the media,
then this war was lost before it began. 

Hold the Line

#6571
Carnage752

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@Sylarris We don't have concrete proof that this is PR, but we highly suspect it because it falls in with other PR patterns. You have your reasons to believe what you believe, but you don't have proof. I ask that you don't refer to our suspicions as ridiculous, much like I won't call your beliefs naive.

#6572
Comguard2

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My 2 Cents: the situation for Bioware/EA is worse than they ever imagined, because the sales figures are disappointing as hell.

I know, sold 2,x million copies...but:

1) As far as I know not sold to customers and, even if this is the case
2) a ridiculous low number compared to the effort they put into the marketing campaign. There was advertisment on a Call of Duty Level (Space Edition, several high-class CGI-Trailers over a short amount of time), and concerning this it must be heavily disappointing that ME2 could just be barely outnumbered.

In addition, this game won't have any legs. Who played the game tells other people not to play it - that's it, end reached. What more numbers are to be expected of a game where the feedback is negative from the community and from the customers reviews?

Additional problem: DLC. Obviously planned. But how do they want to sell it?

Now they want the rage to calm down. But just imagine the moment they announce new DLC - and let it be in 6 months - and it is NOT addressing the ending-issue - then the whole rage will start again.

And what is this with Amazon, they are taking ME3 copies back? Can it get any worse for a company like the current situation?

#6573
Xellith

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They are hoping that if they stall us then we will lose momentum. WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN.

Our choices should matter. HOLD THE LINE

#6574
jimihenrix

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bump

#6575
PluralAces

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Regarding Casey Hudson's post, I feel like Bioware/EA believe that for many of the characters the ending is within the game. rro example, for the death of certain characters like Thane, Legion, their deaths are some sort of ending to Shepard's link with them. For other characters like Mordin, Miranda and Grunt, the choices that you make determine their survival or death, and at the end of those missions, their link is also closed. Same goes for Jack, Morinth/Samara, they can be with you till the end, or become enemies during the game, again based on the choices you have made.

I doubt anyone will read this because of the hundreds of postings, and in no way do I agree with the endings, I did not like them for various reasons. I just feel that Bioware/EA feel that the jounrey in itself was enough, and that there were multiple endings sort of speak with certain characters in the game (from the suicide mission in ME2 where everyone except you can die, to multiple attempts on Kaiden/Ashley and others) I think the only character who is not given a chance to die is Liara.

But anyway, honestly, I can understand Shephard dying to save the world (or in one instance surviving saving the world), but I cant understand why you would isolate all of the different characters from each other by destroying the mass relays. The ending polarized many people, as I'm sure the final choice that Shepard made, many people would want to see the result of that choice, rather than just Joker crashing on some unknown planet, etc...

I also understand that the stargazer telling his son "OK, one more story" perhaps means that there is more to tell about Shepard, etc... but there were certain things that didnt make sense and the ending(s) should have been able to bring more closure to the many that were expecting such.