9972 réponses à ce sujet

[stuka1000]

Male 51, 1 Daughter and 2 Grandkids & still holding the line.

[Luiginius]

 Might not matter which words are used.
These were da2 sales:www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274668-Dragon-Age-2-Sales
Now would be a good time to start a pool for weekly percentage drops for me3.

Modifié par Luiginius, 20 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[MSparkyPants]

Read the whole post. Very insightful. Good work and thank you for compiling all of that, TC.
Bump.

[sabasebatyne]

Kersca wrote...

I'm not reading through almost 300 pages, but has PR guy touched on the fact that the Retake movement made a significant blunder by using "demand"?

Look at the negative press, it focuses in on "fans DEMANDING bioware blah blah blah". If that would have been toned down, there is no way an objective, unbiased media + opinion pieces could get away with reasonable slams.

Of all the verbs to use to try and get a new ending, demand was def not the way to go.

Do you honestly believe that some people wouldn't still negatively characterize the movement?

[Reidbynature]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

Guys the BBC did a piece about us, if you didn't already know. Here is the story. http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17444719

It's balanced.  Short, but balanced.  Which is good news in my book considering the 'coverage' specialist gaming sites give the Retake movement.  I wonder if this will make into BBC's Click programme?

[wepeel_]

Swedish fleet signing off for the night, keep holding the line. Keep making our voice heard.

[Yusta1]

BostonVamp wrote...

*laughs* I'm sorry - not to me on the demographics. I don't really care. But I've learned that it's hard to argue with facts. So if there was a way to put a fact sheet together that states...age of players runs from 15 to 90; both male & female gamers from all walks of life (high schoolers to construction workers to doctors/lawyers/managers, etc.). Just thinking how to counter the image of the "typical gamer" which as we all know, there really isn't such a thing.

Again - just throwing out ideas to give the movement more legitimacy in the eyes of the press.

I think the best way to do this is stay calm and civil as we do now, to show that we are a mature poeple instead a angry child.

But any good ideas on this front are welcomed.

p.s.
sry for my english i don't speak it well.

[BostonVamp]

I have no idea how to make a poll. My tech savvy only goes so far (which is to say maybe around the block). I can certainly attempt it, but if you are looking at speed, I would recommend someone else with the know-how. I am currently checking in during breaks at work, so if someone else wants to attempt this, I would not be offended. If no one wants to, I can try.

[bloodstalker1973]

They can characterize people however they want, but BW recent past is just catching up to them And it's not just the ending of Mass Effect doing it.

Dragon Age 2 just got a DLC cancelled announcement a few days ago.

Now, today I saw that BW is not even going to do an Ulimate Edition package for DA2. The reason? NO retailers are willing to touch it.  Just about every game gets one of these deals these days, but not DA2.

twitter.com/#!/BioMarkDarrah/status/181906475420090369

May not be related, but former SWToR developers have gone the independant route now to do their own thing with funding from Kickstarter.

gamebanshee.com/news/107347-the-banner-saga-kickstarter-campaign-begins.html

"Entitled" gamers put up over 1 million dollars in TWO days to get Brain Fargo's Wasteland 2 project up and running because they want real, traditional RPG experiences where player choice matters and has a deep impact on the story and they aren't getting it from major companies.  That is the same market that built BW for crying out loud.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts

What does this mean? The fact that Wasteland 2 got such immediate support, along with interest in the enhanced Baldur's Gate games, shows that there are a lot of people sick of the same old "All flash, no bang" type of gaming, and they are willing to fund these projects out of their own pockets. At the same time, faith in BW has reached the point that retailers won't touch an Ultimate Edition of Dragon Age 2, and their reputation has taken hits from ToR and now ME3, so their last three major releases have all had serious issues.

This is not about entitled gamers whining, and it isn;t about the ending of one game solely. BW has been on a slide for the past few years when it comes to quality (reused textures, bad endings, total and complete rejection of player choice in endings, and an emphasis on a style of gaming that is alienating their core RPG fanbase)

ME3 is the proverbial straw that has broken the camel's back. This disatisfaction has been brewing for a few years now, but most of us were looking to ME to put everything back on track. It didn't, and now that residual resentment has flared up suddenly at this latest dissappointment. Only this time, the endings were bad enough to make a large section unite firmly against them.

"Entitled" gamers didn't make this mess. Three dissappointing releases culminating with ME3's atrocious endings made it. Forgetting the concerns of the core fanbase to try and appeal to a larger market made this mess. BW is in trouble now because of bad decisions THEY have made, and that's about as simple as it gets. If anything fans always believing blindly and hoping for better luck next game has contributed to that.

And that's why they have to listen now. Or at least that is why the had better listen now. They are not dealing from a position of power when retailers are refusing to carry DA2 UE because it won't sell. Retailers are much ccloser to the pulse of gamers than any PR dept ever is. If retailers start not wanting to carry your products, then you either start looking long and hard in the mirror, or you are going to go out of business. Period. BW has to be too smart to let that happen.

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

[Turtlicious]

19
Grill Cook
Male
No kids.

[Kersca]

sabasebatyne wrote...

Kersca wrote...

I'm not reading through almost 300 pages, but has PR guy touched on the fact that the Retake movement made a significant blunder by using "demand"?

Look at the negative press, it focuses in on "fans DEMANDING bioware blah blah blah". If that would have been toned down, there is no way an objective, unbiased media + opinion pieces could get away with reasonable slams.

Of all the verbs to use to try and get a new ending, demand was def not the way to go.

Do you honestly believe that some people wouldn't still negatively characterize the movement?

I'm sure they would, but it would be a whole lot harder to make a reasonable argument against it without sounding completely in the pocket of thier advertisers..

What i'm saying is focusing on the "we DEMAND a new ending" makes it a hell of a lot easier to paint you as a lunatic fringe as opposed to "we are disappointed, please give us more ending options".  How can anyone with half a brain read an article attacking that and go "this guy has a point"

Modifié par Kersca, 20 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[MeldarthX]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

Ytook wrote...

beetlebailey123 wrote...

Anything new?

You may have already seen this, but this is intruging:

http://www.thevine.c...le20120314.aspx
http://www.examiner....nding-the-works

Still far from comfirmation of anything so lets keep on a-holdin that there line!

Thanks, they are interesting reads. I keep wondering why Bioware are leading us on like that. Why not make an official response. The game has already had a global release JUST SAY SOMETHING!

Patience my friend and peace.  We've done more in this campagn in 2 to 3 weeks; than most do in a few months. 

We went from being ignored; to at least they were saying something about it.
Then to BW saying yes some fans are upset by the ending.
To they are looking over choices - yes double speek for EA called them back and said - this is an issue; solve it.
They have done the bunkering down too - and counter attacked - we we all have handled well.
We have now have main stream coverage - which we need to keep it up -
Several things have born out of this - HOLD THE LINE - Marauder Shields - along with Harby and Bob the reapers on Twitter along with Marauder Shields.
Facebook - the people that continue to join our forces everyday - every hour.
Best Buy and Amazon are taking back opened games - First time ever that's happened.
ME3 in the UK has dropped to second place after dropping 74% in sales......of course EA's street 3 I think replaced it.

We are putting a lot of pressure on them - I'm going to try and find the stats for the rest of the region - but in the UK - 74% drop in sales in 1 week is massive.......and if its even remotely close to that anywhere else - that's the pressure that will crack them.

I know they are going to try and hold out to PAX East before saying something - I'm just not sure they will be able too.  Specially if sales just tank completely.....

Modifié par MeldarthX, 20 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[frypan]

This review comes form a long standing Aussie mag. The scoring is debatable, but the words say it all. Finally some critical analysis!

http://www.pcpowerpl...-mass-effect-3/

Not sure how this can help the cause, but its good to be able to cite at least one review that addresses the issues.

[akawa106]

25
male
no kids
some college-close to graduating

[LyletheBloody]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

 We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

Is there any chance WE are going to be included or become privy to those discussions?  It isn't really a conversation with us if you aren't talking with us back and forth.  

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point. 

On this point I would agree.  I would bring that up as point #1, 2, AND 3 in your next meeting.  

If you came out with THE wall of text statement we're looking for on this tomorrow, it would already be at least 4-5 days too late... its only getting later.  The Hudson statement that was slathered with PR and gave zero answers is not what we're looking for.

Hope you're reading... cause we're definitely still writing.

[Gespenst]

wheelierdan wrote...

Baboonballs wrote...

Just copy and paste this into your sig in your profile. This is the American Fleet one.
http://i748.photobuc...ericanfleet.jpg 

ive tried that a few times it doesnt work for me, clearly i'm doing something wrong.

You need to use img tags, put [ img][ /img] at each end of the link without the spaces and you get



Edit:

Since a lot of other people are going:

Age: 23
Sex: male
Children: 0
Education: 1 x Bachelors degree (LL.

Modifié par Gespenst, 20 mars 2012 - 10:04 .

[MDT1]

Kersca wrote...

sabasebatyne wrote...

Kersca wrote...

I'm not reading through almost 300 pages, but has PR guy touched on the fact that the Retake movement made a significant blunder by using "demand"?

Look at the negative press, it focuses in on "fans DEMANDING bioware blah blah blah". If that would have been toned down, there is no way an objective, unbiased media + opinion pieces could get away with reasonable slams.

Of all the verbs to use to try and get a new ending, demand was def not the way to go.

Do you honestly believe that some people wouldn't still negatively characterize the movement?

I'm sure they would, but it would be a whole lot harder to make a reasonable argument against it without sounding completely in the pocket of thier advertisers..

What i'm saying is focusing on the "we DEMAND a new ending" makes it a hell of a lot easier to paint you as a lunatic fringe as opposed to "we are disappointed, please give us more ending options".  How can anyone with half a brain read an article attacking that and go "this guy has a point"

You are completly right, but I don't think it was an elaboreted decision process that came up with "demand" it just happend and it's no use to argue about this now.
Besides I don't get the impression that many people try to find reasonable arguments against us. Most of the articels seem to be as elaborated and researched as the alien side boob invasion back in ME1 where people stood before camaras and full heartedly claimed ME1 is a full functional sex/rape simulation.

Modifié par MDT1, 20 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[Xivai]

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

They can characterize people however they want, but BW recent past is just catching up to them And it's not just the ending of Mass Effect doing it.

Dragon Age 2 just got a DLC cancelled announcement a few days ago.

Now, today I saw that BW is not even going to do an Ulimate Edition package for DA2. The reason? NO retailers are willing to touch it.  Just about every game gets one of these deals these days, but not DA2.

twitter.com/#!/BioMarkDarrah/status/181906475420090369

May not be related, but former SWToR developers have gone the independant route now to do their own thing with funding from Kickstarter.

gamebanshee.com/news/107347-the-banner-saga-kickstarter-campaign-begins.html

"Entitled" gamers put up over 1 million dollars in TWO days to get Brain Fargo's Wasteland 2 project up and running because they want real, traditional RPG experiences where player choice matters and has a deep impact on the story and they aren't getting it from major companies.  That is the same market that built BW for crying out loud.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts

What does this mean? The fact that Wasteland 2 got such immediate support, along with interest in the enhanced Baldur's Gate games, shows that there are a lot of people sick of the same old "All flash, no bang" type of gaming, and they are willing to fund these projects out of their own pockets. At the same time, faith in BW has reached the point that retailers won't touch an Ultimate Edition of Dragon Age 2, and their reputation has taken hits from ToR and now ME3, so their last three major releases have all had serious issues.

This is not about entitled gamers whining, and it isn;t about the ending of one game solely. BW has been on a slide for the past few years when it comes to quality (reused textures, bad endings, total and complete rejection of player choice in endings, and an emphasis on a style of gaming that is alienating their core RPG fanbase)

ME3 is the proverbial straw that has broken the camel's back. This disatisfaction has been brewing for a few years now, but most of us were looking to ME to put everything back on track. It didn't, and now that residual resentment has flared up suddenly at this latest dissappointment. Only this time, the endings were bad enough to make a large section unite firmly against them.

"Entitled" gamers didn't make this mess. Three dissappointing releases culminating with ME3's atrocious endings made it. Forgetting the concerns of the core fanbase to try and appeal to a larger market made this mess. BW is in trouble now because of bad decisions THEY have made, and that's about as simple as it gets. If anything fans always believing blindly and hoping for better luck next game has contributed to that.

And that's why they have to listen now. Or at least that is why the had better listen now. They are not dealing from a position of power when retailers are refusing to carry DA2 UE because it won't sell. Retailers are much ccloser to the pulse of gamers than any PR dept ever is. If retailers start not wanting to carry your products, then you either start looking long and hard in the mirror, or you are going to go out of business. Period. BW has to be too smart to let that happen.

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

Well said. Bioware isn't quite as strong as it was. More people should see this post.

[G0ldmember]

Good evening my fellow brothers and sisters in arms. Let me give you all a pat on the back and some well written acknowledgement for our cause.

Opinion: BioWare’s Biggest Mistake

With the angry fall-out over Mass Effect 3′s ending still raging, Mark Butler suggests that BioWare’s greatest error
was to break a key promise to fans – damaging a certain degree of trust between developer and gamer in the process.

(Warning: Some spoilers below)
It’s fair to say that BioWare’s relationship with its passionate fanbase has never been more strained. First came the tepid and occasionally downright hostile reaction to Dragon Age II last year, and now the outrage over Mass Effect 3′s ending has taken things to a whole new level.

A great-many fans feel disappointed at the way BioWare wrapped things up (or, as some have argued, failed to wrap things up), and the sheer fury with which some Mass Effect afecionados have been voicing their disapproval makes the storm over the day one ‘From Ashes’ DLC – itself a major bone of contention in recent weeks – seem tame by comparison.

There are many criticisms that can be legitimately made of the way in which BioWare chose to conclude their epic sci-fi saga, and these have been widely discussed at length in recent days. However, BioWare’s most grievous error was to make a powerful, crucial promise to fans – and then clumsily break it at the last second.

More here: http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=6565

Its a good read to lift ones spirits. Hold the line!

Modifié par G0ldmember, 20 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[LyletheBloody]

Situations like this make me wonder how gaming company executives can be puzzled at the rental problem they are currently facing. Mistakes like this (ME3 ending) make renting EXTREMELY attractive.

[ReavousX]

Don't let Bioware hide behind the argument that some fans like the ending and it would be an "affront" to change them. We all know the chances of them outright wiping the slate clean are slim to none, and honestly, I do think it would be unwise to completely remove the endings given.

That doesn't mean Bioware couldn't simply add options that don't step on the toes of those who enjoy their half baked, space magic ending. Who am I to judge? Whatever floats your boat.

[Janus382]

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

They can characterize people however they want, but BW recent past is just catching up to them And it's not just the ending of Mass Effect doing it.

*snipped for brevity

ME3 is the proverbial straw that has broken the camel's back. This disatisfaction has been brewing for a few years now, but most of us were looking to ME to put everything back on track. It didn't, and now that residual resentment has flared up suddenly at this latest dissappointment. Only this time, the endings were bad enough to make a large section unite firmly against them.

"Entitled" gamers didn't make this mess. Three dissappointing releases culminating with ME3's atrocious endings made it.

*snipped for brevity 

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

Well said!  I could not agree more, and have been thinking the same things.  Very inspirational and thank you!

EDIT:  I just want to say that this thread is truly amazing!  The amount of quality posts like the one above is simply staggering!  So much time, energy, and emotion were put into so many of these.  I don't envy Bachuck, who has to decide what gets placed where on the front post. 

Modifié par Janus382, 20 mars 2012 - 10:16 .

[Michotic]

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

[snipped for length]

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

This was absolutely great to read! I thank you for your support!

Our choices should matter. Hold the line.

[Reptilian Rob]

stuka1000 wrote...

Male 51, 1 Daughter and 2 Grandkids & still holding the line.

^^^

A true freaking hero.

[thejoyrider]

31
female
living with SO & no kids
photographer
college grad (BFA)

Modifié par thejoyrider, 20 mars 2012 - 10:06 .