9972 réponses à ce sujet

[lothvamp]

Age: 26
Female
no kids
High school graduate, blue-collar worker

[KainrycKarr]

 bump

[darkreed]

Age : 33
Male
I.C.T Tutor

RPG Pen & Paper from 8+, Sci-fi books 11+, minor gaming 6+, real gaming 13+
What was going to be top 3 series for me before the end of Mass Effect 3 for the last 10 years.

1: Mass Effect Series
2: Jack Campbell's - The Lost Fleet Series (books)
3: Marvel comics to Film.

If things stay the same, then the Metal Gear Solid series might get back into my top 3.

Hold the line

Modifié par darkreed, 20 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[Versus Omnibus]

lothvamp wrote...

So, is it just me, or is the first page of the forum suddenly full of "the endings are fine" and/or "It's indoctrination, get over it" threads. I had a hard time even finding this thread, and it's obviously not because of lack of replies.

There hasn't been much information released to comment on here. But keep posting, and keep holding the line!!

[spacefiddle]

-Draikin- wrote...

I think we're going to need a bit of damage control of our own. A lot of the articles about Retake are rather negative and don't bother looking into our reasons for disliking the ending. The movement has the support of the fans and managed to catch Bioware off guard, but right now it needs to start to adapt. The movement needs to get more organized, with an actual website. Something that actually looks professional. More importantly it needs to explain our reasoning better. Currently Retake has little to no defense to any kind of attack from the gaming media. I mean, the Facebook page says this:

Bioware is a business if we can make them understand that by using the current endings they alienate (no pun) their customers, and destroy the replay ability of the trilogy they are hurting their profits we CAN bring about a change for the better.

This really needs to be rewritten. I'm not sure if the people behind Retake are even posting here?

Don't engage the haters and trolls.  They want that.  They want you to get frothing mad and look like an idiot.

Note which sites started deriding us from the start and waving the "entitled fanboi" bs around, and what news sources treated this as a business issue with customers and brand trust from day one.

If anything, I see a shift to the latter from the former.  And some of the initial haters are trying to downplay how ignorant they look in the face of even mainstream media commenting on this as a pretty hefty consumer expectations issue.  Frankly, a lot of immature people with official outlets for trollposting reacted predictably, with flames and snark that would've gotten them banned from any other board, including this one.

Some were just immature, others may have stepped up out of an idea of misguided blind loyalty to the industry that pays their bills and gets them perks.  While there are still plenty of varied opinions from more independent sites, across the spectrum, the pattern at the start was pretty clear:

Kotaku and IGN: lololol ur spooiled bratz stfu entitled whiners
Forbes: uh, whatever you're up to, breaking trust with customers is a bad idea.

And things kinda developed from there.

[tariq071]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

Luiginius wrote...

 Might not matter which words are used.
These were da2 sales:www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274668-Dragon-Age-2-Sales
Now would be a good time to start a pool for weekly percentage drops for me3.

When will EA and other companies learn?

You create an IP with a loyal fanbase.

Then you make a sequel that removes a lot of the things that made people fans of the original in the first place.

Then you wonder why your sales tank?

I can (barely) forgive it the first time, but how many times do you need to repeat a mistake?

Until it hurts.

DA2 sales didn't punish them for screwing us over
ME2 sales didn't punish them (even though it was arguably not a bad game, just less RPG'y)

ME3 seems to be where they finally managed to make us angry enough to actually have a backlash big enough to reach even the EA-CEOs, high upon their Thrones made of childbones & puppy tears

Well, it did definitely put BW in fully defensive mode, if it's to judge by increased number of  "praise" posts that started showing up as soon Amazon and EA started to give full refunds.

Modifié par tariq071, 20 mars 2012 - 10:31 .

[Leland Gaunt]

Maybe the post from bloodstalker1973 should be pasted into the op? Nice post, pretty illuminating and summing up what has transpired so far.

[mghjr6]

32
Divorced / no kids
Male
Service Janitor / Student Pilot

[Aldo the Apache]

25
Male
US Navy Medical Officer (BA, Medical Doctorate degree in progress (Dr Chakwas is my hero.))
Married
Two kids.

We need to get that video going around the one with the 10 reasons we hated the ending. It explained why we were frusterated quite well.

Modifié par Aldo the Apache, 20 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[Hydralysk]

Ok people I understand you want to show your demographic but since it currently has nothing to do with PR it will probably be considered spam. If you want to add it after a comment relevant to the topic fine, but please don't just post your name/age with "Hold the line" under it, we don't want this thread locked.

Hold the line

[Gespenst]

cinderburster wrote...

An AA degree is an Associative of Arts degree, rather than a Bachelor's.  I have two AAs, one in Fine Arts and one in Liberal Arts (har har I know I know).  Will be working on a Bachelor's when I hear back from colleges I've applied to.  

Ah, so something like a foundation degree (or possibly an Ordinary (i.e. non-honours) degree) in the UK? Good luck.

A quick thought.

When DA:2 caught flak I defended it. These things might not have mattered to many people but they mattered to Hawke. They tried a less global, more personal kind of story here...

When people said, months ago, that the ending of ME3 was terrible I (figuratively) stuck my fingers in my ears and told them to wait until the game came out, Bioware will pull through.

When people posted reviews saying that the ME3 endings were terrible I dismissed them. "Who could possibly have finished the game? It's only been out for a few hours!"

Then I finished Mass Effect 3. And now I'm holding the line.

[Razorsteel]

48
Male
Former Soldier Army 101st Airborne Div now IT Guy.
Married
No kids
Lots of toys

Our Choices Should Matter- Hold The Line

[punkenjunki3]

27
Male
Electro-Technical Officer, Merchant Navy. (Former Coastguard)
Foundation Degree Marine Electrical Engineering & Specialist Search and Rescue qualifications.
Long Term Relationship.
No Kids.

[IndustrializedTaco]

Gespenst wrote...

cinderburster wrote...

An AA degree is an Associative of Arts degree, rather than a Bachelor's.  I have two AAs, one in Fine Arts and one in Liberal Arts (har har I know I know).  Will be working on a Bachelor's when I hear back from colleges I've applied to.  

Ah, so something like a foundation degree (or possibly an Ordinary (i.e. non-honours) degree) in the UK? Good luck.

A quick thought.

When DA:2 caught flak I defended it. These things might not have mattered to many people but they mattered to Hawke. They tried a less global, more personal kind of story here...

When people said, months ago, that the ending of ME3 was terrible I (figuratively) stuck my fingers in my ears and told them to wait until the game came out, Bioware will pull through.

When people posted reviews saying that the ME3 endings were terrible I dismissed them. "Who could possibly have finished the game? It's only been out for a few hours!"

Then I finished Mass Effect 3. And now I'm holding the line.

That is pretty much what I did. I cited the Greek Tragedy, saying that with such a massive battle there has to be sacrifice. Which by the way I'm fine with. I like the idea of an ultimate sacrifice for the good of whatever. Then I beat it. The plot holes, the whole speculation thing. UGHH So I was in the same boat friend.

[wheelierdan]

"Then I finished Mass Effect 3. And now I'm holding the line. "

i like that line a lot.

[Maglor07]

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

They can characterize people however they want, but BW recent past is just catching up to them And it's not just the ending of Mass Effect doing it.

Dragon Age 2 just got a DLC cancelled announcement a few days ago.

Now, today I saw that BW is not even going to do an Ulimate Edition package for DA2. The reason? NO retailers are willing to touch it.  Just about every game gets one of these deals these days, but not DA2.

twitter.com/#!/BioMarkDarrah/status/181906475420090369

May not be related, but former SWToR developers have gone the independant route now to do their own thing with funding from Kickstarter.

gamebanshee.com/news/107347-the-banner-saga-kickstarter-campaign-begins.html

"Entitled" gamers put up over 1 million dollars in TWO days to get Brain Fargo's Wasteland 2 project up and running because they want real, traditional RPG experiences where player choice matters and has a deep impact on the story and they aren't getting it from major companies.  That is the same market that built BW for crying out loud.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts

What does this mean? The fact that Wasteland 2 got such immediate support, along with interest in the enhanced Baldur's Gate games, shows that there are a lot of people sick of the same old "All flash, no bang" type of gaming, and they are willing to fund these projects out of their own pockets. At the same time, faith in BW has reached the point that retailers won't touch an Ultimate Edition of Dragon Age 2, and their reputation has taken hits from ToR and now ME3, so their last three major releases have all had serious issues.

This is not about entitled gamers whining, and it isn;t about the ending of one game solely. BW has been on a slide for the past few years when it comes to quality (reused textures, bad endings, total and complete rejection of player choice in endings, and an emphasis on a style of gaming that is alienating their core RPG fanbase)

ME3 is the proverbial straw that has broken the camel's back. This disatisfaction has been brewing for a few years now, but most of us were looking to ME to put everything back on track. It didn't, and now that residual resentment has flared up suddenly at this latest dissappointment. Only this time, the endings were bad enough to make a large section unite firmly against them.

"Entitled" gamers didn't make this mess. Three dissappointing releases culminating with ME3's atrocious endings made it. Forgetting the concerns of the core fanbase to try and appeal to a larger market made this mess. BW is in trouble now because of bad decisions THEY have made, and that's about as simple as it gets. If anything fans always believing blindly and hoping for better luck next game has contributed to that.

And that's why they have to listen now. Or at least that is why the had better listen now. They are not dealing from a position of power when retailers are refusing to carry DA2 UE because it won't sell. Retailers are much ccloser to the pulse of gamers than any PR dept ever is. If retailers start not wanting to carry your products, then you either start looking long and hard in the mirror, or you are going to go out of business. Period. BW has to be too smart to let that happen.

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

Excellent post. Sums up BWs situation perfectly and everyone who's down should read this - we are definitely winning.

To answer the demographics question:
28 male,
English language and literature major & history major,
working as a translator,
long time girlfriend - also an ME fan

[cinderburster]

I've suggested this in another post, but I think it's relevant to this thread's interest: it seems that there's a disconnect between Bioware and what the Retake movement is really all about. It's always struck me that most of us are calling for explanation of and/or addition to the endings.

In view of a recent ire-rising tweet (I honestly think it's not as bad as it looks), perhaps those of us with twitter accounts that are in the explain/add camp should let @masseffect know what we want.

Modifié par cinderburster, 20 mars 2012 - 10:41 .

[A Paperback Hero]

28
Male
Former Marine, Mechanical Engineering Student
Married
No kids
Played RPGs since I was 12. Plan to play them into my old age.

Hold the Line. We should get what advertising and the developers promised. An ending that is not just A, B, or C.

Modifié par A Paperback Hero, 20 mars 2012 - 10:41 .

[MizzNaaa]

Robertrussell00 wrote...

shephard987 wrote...

BostonVamp wrote...

Someone mentioned how members of the movement are being characterized. Would it help to get some quick demographic info on people - like age, sex, profession, with / without children - just to show that we aren't all 15 y.o. fanboys as we are being depicted?

Hold the line, guys and gals!

I actually think this is a good idea. 
You can be in charge of making an official poll.

Make sure you include age, sex, and level of education. 
*the last bit is to show not all of us haven't finished high school.
**no offense. 

In all seriousness. 
Good idea.

Hold the Line

Please make this, I would love to participate and also see what the results are.  Great idea!

19/Female

Art Student, from Egypt. 

No kids.

Am I the only Egyptian here? O.o

[LolaLei]

25
Female
Lives in England
Not married
No kids
Self employed
Definitely nothing like comic book guy lol!

Modifié par LolaLei, 20 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[BostonVamp]

So I made 2 feeble attempts at 2 polls - 1 demographic and 1 profession. Let me see how these work and of course you can add additional info in the comments section. If I need to attempt to make another poll for education level, I can.

[Maglor07]

Hydralysk wrote...

Ok people I understand you want to show your demographic but since it currently has nothing to do with PR it will probably be considered spam. If you want to add it after a comment relevant to the topic fine, but please don't just post your name/age with "Hold the line" under it, we don't want this thread locked.

Hold the line

You're right. Maybe people could write that info in their signatures for the time so as to avoid the thread lockdown.

[wheelierdan]

Maglor07 wrote...

bloodstalker1973 wrote...

They can characterize people however they want, but BW recent past is just catching up to them And it's not just the ending of Mass Effect doing it.

Dragon Age 2 just got a DLC cancelled announcement a few days ago.

Now, today I saw that BW is not even going to do an Ulimate Edition package for DA2. The reason? NO retailers are willing to touch it.  Just about every game gets one of these deals these days, but not DA2.

twitter.com/#!/BioMarkDarrah/status/181906475420090369

May not be related, but former SWToR developers have gone the independant route now to do their own thing with funding from Kickstarter.

gamebanshee.com/news/107347-the-banner-saga-kickstarter-campaign-begins.html

"Entitled" gamers put up over 1 million dollars in TWO days to get Brain Fargo's Wasteland 2 project up and running because they want real, traditional RPG experiences where player choice matters and has a deep impact on the story and they aren't getting it from major companies.  That is the same market that built BW for crying out loud.

www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts

What does this mean? The fact that Wasteland 2 got such immediate support, along with interest in the enhanced Baldur's Gate games, shows that there are a lot of people sick of the same old "All flash, no bang" type of gaming, and they are willing to fund these projects out of their own pockets. At the same time, faith in BW has reached the point that retailers won't touch an Ultimate Edition of Dragon Age 2, and their reputation has taken hits from ToR and now ME3, so their last three major releases have all had serious issues.

This is not about entitled gamers whining, and it isn;t about the ending of one game solely. BW has been on a slide for the past few years when it comes to quality (reused textures, bad endings, total and complete rejection of player choice in endings, and an emphasis on a style of gaming that is alienating their core RPG fanbase)

ME3 is the proverbial straw that has broken the camel's back. This disatisfaction has been brewing for a few years now, but most of us were looking to ME to put everything back on track. It didn't, and now that residual resentment has flared up suddenly at this latest dissappointment. Only this time, the endings were bad enough to make a large section unite firmly against them.

"Entitled" gamers didn't make this mess. Three dissappointing releases culminating with ME3's atrocious endings made it. Forgetting the concerns of the core fanbase to try and appeal to a larger market made this mess. BW is in trouble now because of bad decisions THEY have made, and that's about as simple as it gets. If anything fans always believing blindly and hoping for better luck next game has contributed to that.

And that's why they have to listen now. Or at least that is why the had better listen now. They are not dealing from a position of power when retailers are refusing to carry DA2 UE because it won't sell. Retailers are much ccloser to the pulse of gamers than any PR dept ever is. If retailers start not wanting to carry your products, then you either start looking long and hard in the mirror, or you are going to go out of business. Period. BW has to be too smart to let that happen.

So keep fighting for what you believe in. BW's position is not as strong as a lot of people might want you to think it is. This is exactly the moment to communicate your feelings to a company that is, quite frankly, having probelms on more fronts than just ME3. And it's not just for you: stand firm because if you don't, BW won't fix this and will keep making mistakes and eventually die. I don;t want to see that happen. I want BW to have a long, productive road ahead of them. But sometimes, it takes a swift kick in the pants to make people look in the mirror and re-evaluate self destructive behaviour. I don't care about BW's financial returns this quarter or the next. But I do care about their long term prospects just as much as i care about my own satisfaction, and they are not on a good road right now. Patting them on the back and telling them "It's Ok, you're super great" like some people want us to won;t help us or BW. Especially when BW has asked for that kind of feedback.

You are WINNING. And despite what others think, that means BW will also win in the long run because they have to make changes in a business model that is starting to crack.

Excellent post. Sums up BWs situation perfectly and everyone who's down should read this - we are definitely winning.

To answer the demographics question:
28 male,
English language and literature major & history major,
working as a translator,
long time girlfriend - also an ME fan

this was incredibly insightful and backed up with facts. thank you so much for taking the time to say these things.

[marshkoala]

@KainrycKarr
Be careful of just posting "bump" or "hold the line" Stanley Woo came on this thread last night and mentioned it was a violation of rules and regs.
I'm not picking on you please believe me but he posted that about the time I was bumping another thread.

"hold the line"

[Kioux]

One thing that continues to strike me as odd is the hate the "ending lovers" seem to have for the "ending haters". I mean even if Bioware would provide us with an alternate ending DLC - nobody would force them to buy it. They are happy with it - that's great for them (and I mean that) and they can even save $10-15. Nobody would "spoil" their preferred way of ending the trilogy so what is the issue? And simply saying "Bioware shouldn't listen to the mob/brats/whiners (insert any random insult we have been getting)" doesn't quite cut it.
I just don't get it why some individuals try to attack us when they don't have to worry about it - even if we win.
Save Shepard - Save the Galaxy - Hold the Line!


Additionally:
31/f/Literature graduate/Linguistic Tester

Modifié par Kioux, 20 mars 2012 - 10:45 .