9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahms]

thejoyrider wrote...

a few pages back somebody mentioned how they feel like BW is trying to get fans to lose hope and give up and i feel like this is true...especially with the fact that they are very clearly watching the forums (as evidenced by rule enforcements) but not responding to anybody and are very active on other social media like twitter but are only responding to positive feedback. right now they are pulling what i like to call 'abusive boyfriend' moves aka making you feel like you're overreacting, that you're crazy for feeling the way you do, minimizing your issues, ignoring/not listening, all that kind of stuff. and as evidenced by some posts on this forum, it's working with some of the fans who are feeling super bummed out and wanting to give up.

And those girls can't help but run back to those boyfriends and give them love!

GENIU - NO! *Control yourself*

HOLD THE LINE!

Modifié par Ahms, 21 mars 2012 - 05:51 .

[Rulycar]

Okay ... a few musings:

I see the "art" vs "video game" argument bantered about in more than a few articles.

The more I consider the various points of view,
... the more I realize the failure of this ending rests entirely with the publisher.
They commissioned this work,
... did they exercise editorial power?
... Where are the rewrite orders?
... Focus groups?

My conclusion is ...
... Lack of oversight created this inferior product.

"a boy let on the loose is causing his mother shame" - proverb

[Nithe]

BillMcD wrote...

*snip*

On a side note, Hello people

Hey there, be sure to check out the first post, it's been updated quite a bit today.

[Shadowmourne07]

BillMcD wrote...
Most long term protests involve some ammount of this, but an "insurgency" implies firearms and violence.  We aren't going to go killing people. 

Also, I read ATG say numerous times about not targeting bioware employees and what not, quoted in the OP. I think you have been reading random comments and generalizing too much.

On a side note, Hello people

 To quote Commander Shepard-
"I dont shoot people unless I have to....do I have to?"

>.>  *Disclaimer: Please note I have no intention of doing violence to anyone over a videogame's ending, no matter how bad it was.*

Modifié par Shadowmourne07, 21 mars 2012 - 05:56 .

[spacefiddle]

jarrettwold wrote...

Except when his broad generalizations of what a PR strategy includes, are just wrong.  Mischaracterazations of Bioware's intent and how they're handling this are fundamentally incorrect.
...
I've spent quality time in the past reading research papers, books and a variety of other things.  Dissecting failure of companies in customer service.  So far, they're doing everything RIGHT.  They're soliciting feedback, not clamping down on their forums, social networking or even their employees.  
...
I will of course immediately be labeled as a corporate drone, a plant.  Some conspiracy driven thing straight out of the X-Files.  But, I'm not.  After looking at just about everything PR that they're doing, atg is just fundamentally wrong. 

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

Modifié par spacefiddle, 21 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[Ahms]

Rulycar wrote...

Okay ... a few musings:

I see the "art" vs "video game" argument bantered about in more than a few articles.

The more I consider the various points of view,
... the more I realize the failure of this ending rests entirely with the publisher.
They commissioned this work,
... did they exercise editorial power?
... Where are the rewrite orders?
... Focus groups?

My conclusion is ...
... Lack of oversight created this inferior product.

"a boy let on the loose is causing his mother shame" - proverb

No damn way. The parent company gives the deadline for development, then the developer has to deliver the goods. EA says, "make it happen," and Bioware starts the project. I'd bet my last dollar that there was actually very little, if at all, micromanagerial involvement in the project and its design.

LOL @ "art" and artistic considerations. That whole argument is a sunken ship. When a soulless corporation owns you, art has no life, no matter what you tell yourself. It's the classic stereotype of the brilliant mad scientist creating his masterful brainchild only to have it twisted by his evil mastermind boss who then perverts and corrupts it beyond the scientist's vision.

Modifié par Ahms, 21 mars 2012 - 05:59 .

[joshko]

spacefiddle wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Except when his broad generalizations of what a PR strategy includes, are just wrong.  Mischaracterazations of Bioware's intent and how they're handling this are fundamentally incorrect.
...
I've spent quality time in the past reading research papers, books and a variety of other things.  Dissecting failure of companies in customer service.  So far, they're doing everything RIGHT.  They're soliciting feedback, not clamping down on their forums, social networking or even their employees.  
...
I will of course immediately be labeled as a corporate drone, a plant.  Some conspiracy driven thing straight out of the X-Files.  But, I'm not.  After looking at just about everything PR that they're doing, atg is just fundamentally wrong. 

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

Good call Sir!
By the by, how's your line holding out?

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

is game a kind of art? yes

but if you start a piece of art using realism, its generally bad to finish off the last little bit of the art with surrealism

[Panicomatic]

spacefiddle wrote...

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

You have sime valid points, to which I don't think you will get a response...

[Nithe]

Rulycar wrote...

Okay ... a few musings:

I see the "art" vs "video game" argument bantered about in more than a few articles.

The more I consider the various points of view,
... the more I realize the failure of this ending rests entirely with the publisher.
They commissioned this work,
... did they exercise editorial power?
... Where are the rewrite orders?
... Focus groups?

My conclusion is ...
... Lack of oversight created this inferior product.

"a boy let on the loose is causing his mother shame" - proverb

I've always felt that when art is commercialized it becomes about what the customer wants, instead of what the artist wants.

But perhaps that's just my bourgeois point of view. 

Modifié par Nithe, 21 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[IndustrializedTaco]

Hey all I'm back, did I miss anything at all?

[Commander Waha]

This is a bit tl;dr, so I apologise.

In response to primarily the media outlets decrying us as "entitled" and "spoiled" for wanting a different, better ending, I say the following.

Movies, which everyone agrees are art, and a highly scrutinised media format, almost always screen the ending/the whole damn thing in front of a few test audiences. If audiences don't like one ending, they prepare another. If audiences don't like character B, he gets less screentime.

If a director/producer is willing to change their own personal mindbaby around because 500 people didn't like it, then I don't see how the video game industry should be scot free in the same circumstances. Now, it may be that bioware doesn't give their games to a test audience (reviewers don't count, let's be honest with ourselves) but the video game industry has developed DLC as a genuine content distribution platform. Imagine if you were watching the Shawshank Redemption, and you thought it was bull that Morgan Freeman was a figment of Andy's imagination. Now imagine that the DVD allowed you to purchase an entirely different ending.

Bioware of all companies has been promoting "CHOICE IS ALWAYS GOOD" I'm sure you'll agree, which is why their recent actions baffle me. There was massive backlash once people reached the end of ME3, and if Bioware had simply said "Okay, what do you want?" followed by "alright, we'll get to it, we'll keep you posted on the progress" then we wouldn't be here, having this thread because as mad as some people would be for having to pay for a second ending, it wouldn't be as bad as it is now, where people have no real reason to expect the problem to be fixed.

All that has been said to this point is "we are listening". Not "we are listening and will take action", just "we're listening". That's the biggest and yet simultaneously simplest problem to solve, and it just baffles me that it isn't being solved.

It would make them money, it would make them positive PR, and yet here we sit. The internet allows for instant communication between not just us, but between Bioware and EA, and yet for two weeks all we've heard is "we're listening".

No sir, I don't like it.

[spacefiddle]

joshko wrote...

spacefiddle wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Except when his broad generalizations of what a PR strategy includes, are just wrong.  Mischaracterazations of Bioware's intent and how they're handling this are fundamentally incorrect.
...
I've spent quality time in the past reading research papers, books and a variety of other things.  Dissecting failure of companies in customer service.  So far, they're doing everything RIGHT.  They're soliciting feedback, not clamping down on their forums, social networking or even their employees.  
...
I will of course immediately be labeled as a corporate drone, a plant.  Some conspiracy driven thing straight out of the X-Files.  But, I'm not.  After looking at just about everything PR that they're doing, atg is just fundamentally wrong. 

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

Good call Sir!
By the by, how's your line holding out?

SSV Wes'Philly is holding well, thankee :happy: tho I may have had too many caffinated beverages this evening .
Noting the twitter feed turning entirely to MP boosterism and "thanks for liking the ending!" this evening.
I see another mid-week shift to hunkering down at EA: it's middle o' the work week, people are coming in and going, oh right, we still have all this crap to deal with and will for a while, and it's making them a little defensive again.

It's odd, that you can deliberately filter the news you pay attention to while at the same time convincing yourself that this must really be the news.  I think it's a temporary insanity, though, and the illusion of "more people will like the ending and those 90-10 polls will magically flip!" will soon fade.

[Nithe]

@beetlebailey: The first post has gone through a number of updates, be sure to check it out.

And welcome back.

[Utopianus]

spacefiddle wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...

Except when his broad generalizations of what a PR strategy includes, are just wrong.  Mischaracterazations of Bioware's intent and how they're handling this are fundamentally incorrect.
...
I've spent quality time in the past reading research papers, books and a variety of other things.  Dissecting failure of companies in customer service.  So far, they're doing everything RIGHT.  They're soliciting feedback, not clamping down on their forums, social networking or even their employees.  
...
I will of course immediately be labeled as a corporate drone, a plant.  Some conspiracy driven thing straight out of the X-Files.  But, I'm not.  After looking at just about everything PR that they're doing, atg is just fundamentally wrong. 

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

I second that.

[Red_Skye]

Rulycar wrote...

Okay ... a few musings:

I see the "art" vs "video game" argument bantered about in more than a few articles.

The more I consider the various points of view,
... the more I realize the failure of this ending rests entirely with the publisher.
They commissioned this work,
... did they exercise editorial power?
... Where are the rewrite orders?
... Focus groups?

My conclusion is ...
... Lack of oversight created this inferior product.

"a boy let on the loose is causing his mother shame" - proverb

And i think a general thinking that they could do no wrong on their part. But, heck even I thought that they could do no wrong up to the ME3 ending. I love the Mass Effect series, it has had a major influence on me and even made me want to be a game designer. I would have also argued that video games are art, because they are the way you interact with the medium is something new that as ME 1 and 2 proved that just because you played didn't mean you had to lose any storytelling power. The fact that it was a video game Made the story that much stronger in my opinion.

[cinderburster]

Nithe wrote...

Rulycar wrote...

Okay ... a few musings:

I see the "art" vs "video game" argument bantered about in more than a few articles.

The more I consider the various points of view,
... the more I realize the failure of this ending rests entirely with the publisher.
They commissioned this work,
... did they exercise editorial power?
... Where are the rewrite orders?
... Focus groups?

My conclusion is ...
... Lack of oversight created this inferior product.

"a boy let on the loose is causing his mother shame" - proverb

I've always felt that when art is commercialized it becomes about what the customer wants, instead of what the artist wants.

But perhaps that's just my bourgeois point of view. 

EDITING TO ADD: I agree with the above statement.  Video games may be art, but they are art designed with the aim of making money.  The consumer and the consumer's satisfaction are very much a part of the equation.

My OTHER issue with the "art" argument--at least, the majority of the ones that I've seen--is the assumption that art is unchangeable, therefore any critique of it is not only unwelcomed, but something to be ignored and marginalized.

How, exactly, does an artist become better at their craft if they are never given any sort of criticism?

And if critiquing art is inherently bad, why are there people paid to do it professionally?

Modifié par cinderburster, 21 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[joshko]

Commander Waha wrote...

This is a bit tl;dr, so I apologise.

In response to primarily the media outlets decrying us as "entitled" and "spoiled" for wanting a different, better ending, I say the following.

Movies, which everyone agrees are art, and a highly scrutinised media format, almost always screen the ending/the whole damn thing in front of a few test audiences. If audiences don't like one ending, they prepare another. If audiences don't like character B, he gets less screentime.

If a director/producer is willing to change their own personal mindbaby around because 500 people didn't like it, then I don't see how the video game industry should be scot free in the same circumstances. Now, it may be that bioware doesn't give their games to a test audience (reviewers don't count, let's be honest with ourselves) but the video game industry has developed DLC as a genuine content distribution platform. Imagine if you were watching the Shawshank Redemption, and you thought it was bull that Morgan Freeman was a figment of Andy's imagination. Now imagine that the DVD allowed you to purchase an entirely different ending.

Bioware of all companies has been promoting "CHOICE IS ALWAYS GOOD" I'm sure you'll agree, which is why their recent actions baffle me. There was massive backlash once people reached the end of ME3, and if Bioware had simply said "Okay, what do you want?" followed by "alright, we'll get to it, we'll keep you posted on the progress" then we wouldn't be here, having this thread because as mad as some people would be for having to pay for a second ending, it wouldn't be as bad as it is now, where people have no real reason to expect the problem to be fixed.

All that has been said to this point is "we are listening". Not "we are listening and will take action", just "we're listening". That's the biggest and yet simultaneously simplest problem to solve, and it just baffles me that it isn't being solved.

It would make them money, it would make them positive PR, and yet here we sit. The internet allows for instant communication between not just us, but between Bioware and EA, and yet for two weeks all we've heard is "we're listening".

No sir, I don't like it.

I think the main issue is that Video Games are still in the develepmental stage as far as an artistic medium. While film is already established and found its niche.
Give it time.

[IndustrializedTaco]

Nithe wrote...

@beetlebailey: The first post has gone through a number of updates, be sure to check it out.

And welcome back.

Thank you. I will.

[atghunter]

jarrettwold wrote...

Snip

First, I will nether label you in a derogatory fashion nor denigrate your opinion Sir, you're entitled to your perspective just as everyone else is here.  My speculations are from my own experiences, just you have claimed your opinions originate from yours.  If you think I'm wrong, that's your prerogative. Let’s agree to disagree.  I promise you I'm old enough and strong enough to accept an opinion I don't agree with.
 
As for my comments being a “straight up insurgency strategy”, you give me credit for being far more clever than I am and not giving the people here credit for being as smart as they are. Even as far back as my first post, I explained much of this is new and quite intriguing to me having an older PR perspective.   

If you've worked your way through this thread (which I readily acknowledge is vast), you will see that most people (myself included) are committed to a civil discourse and that there is a clear distinction in discussions between a corporation that people vastly feel did not provide them with a quality product and the hard-working people in that company.    
 
Are there detractors on both sides of this issue that speak uncivilly?  Certainly.  You will not find them endorsed here.

Moreover, I think you'd be surprised to find we have people here in this thread who liked the endings and not only engage in discussions, but are encouraged to use their voice no matter what side they are on.  To say that you believe Bioware/EA is doing everything right is your opinion, but I hope you can civilly accept some people here think that view is simply wrong.

You ultimately make the point that Bioware is full of human beings.  I would ask you to consider the other side of that coin.  The customer base is full of human beings too. With an understanding of both sides of that coin, folks can remain civil and still argue their sides.

As you have paid me the courtesy of your constructive criticism, I hope you'll allow me two in return.  Entering a discussion with a defensive tone often makes the other side wonder why you started the discourse in the first place.  Second, if you really desire have a civil discourse, you probably shouldn't open that dialogue by calling the other person "dude".  I assure you Sir, I'm far too old for that moniker.

As I have said throughout, stay strong, stay passionate (yet civil), and use your voice no matter what side you choose.
 

[shephard987]

Commander Waha wrote...

This is a bit tl;dr, so I apologise.

In response to primarily the media outlets decrying us as "entitled" and "spoiled" for wanting a different, better ending, I say the following.

Movies, which everyone agrees are art, and a highly scrutinised media format, almost always screen the ending/the whole damn thing in front of a few test audiences. If audiences don't like one ending, they prepare another. If audiences don't like character B, he gets less screentime.

If a director/producer is willing to change their own personal mindbaby around because 500 people didn't like it, then I don't see how the video game industry should be scot free in the same circumstances. Now, it may be that bioware doesn't give their games to a test audience (reviewers don't count, let's be honest with ourselves) but the video game industry has developed DLC as a genuine content distribution platform. Imagine if you were watching the Shawshank Redemption, and you thought it was bull that Morgan Freeman was a figment of Andy's imagination. Now imagine that the DVD allowed you to purchase an entirely different ending.

Bioware of all companies has been promoting "CHOICE IS ALWAYS GOOD" I'm sure you'll agree, which is why their recent actions baffle me. There was massive backlash once people reached the end of ME3, and if Bioware had simply said "Okay, what do you want?" followed by "alright, we'll get to it, we'll keep you posted on the progress" then we wouldn't be here, having this thread because as mad as some people would be for having to pay for a second ending, it wouldn't be as bad as it is now, where people have no real reason to expect the problem to be fixed.

All that has been said to this point is "we are listening". Not "we are listening and will take action", just "we're listening". That's the biggest and yet simultaneously simplest problem to solve, and it just baffles me that it isn't being solved.

It would make them money, it would make them positive PR, and yet here we sit. The internet allows for instant communication between not just us, but between Bioware and EA, and yet for two weeks all we've heard is "we're listening".

No sir, I don't like it.

There are many people that would agree with your opinion. 
In this group and other outside groups.
Which is why it is important not to just voice our opinions HERE,
but out THERE in the comments of articles that bash us for these and other reasons.
Voice your opinion.
It matters.

Hold the Line

[Zero.Gee]

spacefiddle wrote...

Interesting.

1) You attack someone's broad generalizations with a broad generalization, with no supporting facts or evidence.  You say he has Bioware's intent "fundamentally incorrect."  Do you assert that you have a personal insight into Bioware's intent?  How?  What is it?

2) You present a list of quick qualifications which you load with slanted language - quality times, dissecting failures! - which again have no meat to them.  They are basically "look kid, I'm an expert: trust me."

Even better, atg has explained - and I think many of us are already quite aware - how "listening" is really used to stall for time.  Closing threads left and right is inflammatory; you'd have to be *really* incompetent to respond this way.  No, you take criticism of the response, repeat it, and add "this is doing everything right!" to it.  Very GoodSpeak of you.

3) You immediately deflect any potential criticism with a classic "Of course, if you disagree with me you must be calling me a drone or a plant," and equate any doubt in your dogma as being equivalent to some nutjob X-Files conspiracist.

You're doing everything you accuse atg of doing, except with less content.  You ask us to "examine his statements with a critical eye," but preemptively ridicule critical examination of yourself as being "some conspiracy thing from the X-files."

I call shenanigans.

Well said, man. Well said.

[mattynutz]

Interesting tweet from Jessica Merizan:

" thanks! And people who are happy about something rarely discuss it. They just enjoy it "

This is total cognitive dissonance. It's just patently false. When people are happy about something they can't shut up about it. Just like when I couldn't shut up about ME after I played 1 & 2 and up until the Cerberus base assault in 3. I talked about it non stop.

They aren't even in reality anymore.

[Amagoi]

Ahms wrote...

thejoyrider wrote...

a few pages back somebody mentioned how they feel like BW is trying to get fans to lose hope and give up and i feel like this is true...especially with the fact that they are very clearly watching the forums (as evidenced by rule enforcements) but not responding to anybody and are very active on other social media like twitter but are only responding to positive feedback. right now they are pulling what i like to call 'abusive boyfriend' moves aka making you feel like you're overreacting, that you're crazy for feeling the way you do, minimizing your issues, ignoring/not listening, all that kind of stuff. and as evidenced by some posts on this forum, it's working with some of the fans who are feeling super bummed out and wanting to give up.

And those girls can't help but run back to those boyfriends and give them love!

GENIU - NO! *Control yourself*

HOLD THE LINE!

I've felt this way about this situation too. I gave Bioware nothing but love and support for years!

But no way am I going to go back and get smacked like this again, I'm not giving up hope, I'm too damn stubborn for that. This line ain't goin nowhere

[Commander Waha]

joshko wrote...

Commander Waha wrote...

This is a bit tl;dr, so I apologise.

In response to primarily the media outlets decrying us as "entitled" and "spoiled" for wanting a different, better ending, I say the following.

Movies, which everyone agrees are art, and a highly scrutinised media format, almost always screen the ending/the whole damn thing in front of a few test audiences. If audiences don't like one ending, they prepare another. If audiences don't like character B, he gets less screentime.

If a director/producer is willing to change their own personal mindbaby around because 500 people didn't like it, then I don't see how the video game industry should be scot free in the same circumstances. Now, it may be that bioware doesn't give their games to a test audience (reviewers don't count, let's be honest with ourselves) but the video game industry has developed DLC as a genuine content distribution platform. Imagine if you were watching the Shawshank Redemption, and you thought it was bull that Morgan Freeman was a figment of Andy's imagination. Now imagine that the DVD allowed you to purchase an entirely different ending.

Bioware of all companies has been promoting "CHOICE IS ALWAYS GOOD" I'm sure you'll agree, which is why their recent actions baffle me. There was massive backlash once people reached the end of ME3, and if Bioware had simply said "Okay, what do you want?" followed by "alright, we'll get to it, we'll keep you posted on the progress" then we wouldn't be here, having this thread because as mad as some people would be for having to pay for a second ending, it wouldn't be as bad as it is now, where people have no real reason to expect the problem to be fixed.

All that has been said to this point is "we are listening". Not "we are listening and will take action", just "we're listening". That's the biggest and yet simultaneously simplest problem to solve, and it just baffles me that it isn't being solved.

It would make them money, it would make them positive PR, and yet here we sit. The internet allows for instant communication between not just us, but between Bioware and EA, and yet for two weeks all we've heard is "we're listening".

No sir, I don't like it.

I think the main issue is that Video Games are still in the develepmental stage as far as an artistic medium. While film is already established and found its niche.
Give it time.

I believe we are in a transitional phase as such. Depending on where Bioware and other companies go with this, video games can either be a profitable "we'll sell you what you want" industry like film, or a "we'll sell you what we want" industry like indie films.

Both things have their place, but ME1 and 2 were clearly set up as the former, and all of a sudden we're getting hit with the latter in the last ten minutes of ME3.