9972 réponses à ce sujet

[dakilla171192]

Mass effect 3.

Mass effect 3 endings.

There's a difference bioware.
Not everything needs space magic

[Zero.Gee]

DuneMuadDib wrote...

Being appreciative of Jessica's time is mutually exclusive from dissatisfaction with a substandard ending.

This is very true, I was thinking this while writing my previous reply earlier. However I felt I didn't need to say it, but i'm still glad someone else did. Lets not forget just because there is a rep here, that there are still issues. And at the moment she may not be able to answer many if not any of the real questions we have the moment. So keeping that in mind, remember folks be calm and civil as possible.

oh yeah, and HOLD THE LINE!

Modifié par Zero.Gee, 21 mars 2012 - 10:19 .

[Mister Mida]

*reads Merizan's stuff*

Noted.

I didn't read anything relevant other then 'we're still compiling data', but still noted.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 21 mars 2012 - 10:20 .

[Qwd666]

@Jessica: Thank you for writing to us. It's good to have someone who actually communicate with us not just telling us he/she will.

[Nefelius]

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alright! Thank you!10000 times thank you!" But everyone forgets that the issue is still there.
It's like dispersing an angry mob with cold, but sweetened water.

Modifié par Nefelius, 21 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[McBaal]

I still think every minute Bioware is "listening" instead of taking action is a risk. If people say that the "disappointed" (to say the least) fans would be a small minority of the customers, i have to answer that it has been this "minority" who has filled the Bioware stands, giving ideas, spreading the word about the Mass effect franchise, buying stuff like books and comics etc. pp.
And you, Bioware, are already loosing them / us.
Just think about a Chicago Bulls championship game with empty halls. Maybe millions of people are watching the game in TV, but the hall itself is completely empty and silent. And it stays that way in future games. What do you, Bioware, think would happen to the CB team?
This scenario is exactly what you are risking. Is this smart? No, it is just stupid. Your time is running out, dont you see that? Not just in the US

[Thermorium]

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

[Enichan]

Nefelius wrote...

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alrigh! Thank you!10000 times thatnk you!" 
It's like dipsresing an angry mob with cold water.

Anyone who read her post and sees anything like a commitment from the greater company she represents to do what we want has blinders on, though, considering her post was almost all about her own personal position in all this.

Of course, I suppose you might be correct. So often we're ignored in video game land that the start of a dialogue seems more like a resolution than the very beginning of the process of working towards one, but I like to think people here aren't so naive.

[Gtacatalina]

[quote]Jessica Merizan wrote...
 
I respect that even if I personally disagree with the end goal of RetakeME, their means to be heard are noble. Even if they have a demand, they aren't coming across as demanding. They try to be polite and fight stereotypes about fandom. And as their community manager, I'm advocating for their opinions to be heard. [/quote]

I understand if you don't personally agree of the Retake goal. But as a huge ME fan who's played 100's hours and as a consumer who's spent twice as much on the ME franchise, to realise that our decisions would not really make a difference(we got war assets) and then to receive an ending that didn't make any sense and most of the endings being so similar to me that it's ruined any kind of game replay for my 5 other Sheps. There is no incentive for me to replay or by any future dlc for the game. And I'm really disappointed with that.

[quote]Jessica Merizan wrote.....But this BioWare PR damage control stuff is ridiculous. How can we expect to have a conversation about this when people are slinging around jargon that frankly none of our PR professionals have ever even heard of. You're making yourselves paranoid and rejecting anything we have to say. [qoute]

One of the main problems Jessica is that Bioware aren't saying very much.  And when that happens speculation starts to unravel. It also doesn't help when things are written on Bioware's facebook 'That there will be no new endings'.



[quote]It's one thing to be skeptical (as a consumer, it's smart to be an informed buyer) but it's another thing to lead yourself to believe that someone is actively trying to pull the wool over your eyes. We aren't. I'm not. I'm losing sleep over this and regardless of what you may think I'm not getting paid to sit and type this out. And any PR person would tell you this entire post is a mistake to write and publish.[/quote]

I don't think Bioware are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. It just seems to me from Bioware's reponse that they're waiting it out, and doing nothing.
I loved ME 3 untill the end and as a consumer Jessica I'm really hoping that Bioware will come up with something to resolve this.

Hope you get some sleep soon

Modifié par Gtacatalina, 21 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[Cybermortis]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Hey guys,
I just wanted to clarify a few things.

<Please forgive the snip>

2B) My intention to that person was to say that more people need to vocalize their opinion, positive or negative. When we insulate ourselves in tight-knit communities, it's harder to see that most people aren't doing that. Not the same most people however, just most people in different situations. An example I used is the 90-9-1 principle or the 1% rule (which is all over the internet and I studied it during my master's coursework in media consumption at University College London, namedrop intentional as people have recently accused me of being unable to read and interpret statistics or data, something I'm very good at and pride myself on).

3) The above rule is quite simple. 90% of consumers will passively engage in the product through consumption (such as playing a video game). They might lurk on forums or read articles. 9% of these people will take it a step further and actively engage in discussions and talk. These are the people that you rely on for WOM sales (word of mouth). They'll "like" a post on Facebook, share it to their wall, reply to a forum thread, RT or reply to something on Twitter. Then you have people who take it one step further and create content based on the original product. These are your fan artists, cosplayers, and even as simple as someone who starts a forum thread or makes a youtube video.

3A) An example I gave of this on Twitter is 3 products that I enjoy: Dominos pizza, the television show The Venture Brothers, and the Mass Effect Franchise. While I spend an embarrassing amount of money on Dominos every month, I don't discuss my purchase online with my friends. I haven't "Liked" their page on Facebook and I'm not a member of their community. I'm still an important consumer and I vote with my wallet. However I'm in that 90% that Dominos is constantly trying to engage with pizza ordering widgets to share on my Facebook wall etc. But I'm not biting. On the other hand, I'm a much more vocal consumer of the Venture Brothers. I'm in the 9% there. I've been a member of several fan sites, tuned into their livestreams and donated money during their charity drives, I tweet quotes from the show and am involved in discussions with other fans I met online. And finally, long before I worked for BioWare, I was in the 1% of this community. Even though I didn't go on the forums much (other than lurk), I created costumes, spread my love of their games at conventions, actively participated in their facebook initiatives etc.

3B) This doesn't just apply to people who like something. This applies to consumption as a whole. The 9% vocal minority isn't a bunch of naysayers. It's literally just the vocal bunch out of the entire group. It includes people who like, dislike, and are neutral. The media has just latched onto "vocal minority" as if it's a bad thing. It's not. It's just the way consumption works. Go look at any Facebook page, specifically their "People Talking About This" (PTAT). We consider 10% a great number. 20% is off the charts. But it rarely goes above that. It's just the way things work.
 

There is something I'd like to note/ask at this point about the 90-9-1 principle as it *may* apply to some of the discussions about ME3 - at least on these boards.

Is the 90-9-1 principal based on 'traditional' marketing studies alone, or did/does it include research into internet habits and trends?

I ask because it occurs to me that more people may be inclined to make comments via the internet than through more traditional means. It's fast, easy and somewhat impersonal, which may mean that some of the 90% who wouldn't normally say anything are willing to do so. The question comes from the number of people I've seem posting on here who start with 'Never felt the need to post before' or something along those lines. I'm wondering if the 90-9-1 'rule' can be truely said to apply to the internet or not.

[ReavousX]

Nefelius wrote...

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alrigh! Thank you!10000 times thatnk you!" 
It's like dipsresing an angry mob with cold water.

She said absolutely nothing that would "sedate" anyone who is upset about the endings though.  No one is going to stop holding the line because we attempted to have a nice chat with the person who is gathering our feedback to be analyzed. 

[Gtacatalina]

Sorry double post!

Modifié par Gtacatalina, 21 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[Harbing3r]

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alrigh! Thank you!10000 times thatnk you!" 
It's like dipsresing an angry mob with cold water.

Understood, Mate - but, charming as Ms Merizan is, she isn't convincing you or I to abandon the line!

Modifié par Harbing3r, 21 mars 2012 - 10:23 .

[Jessica Merizan]

Thermorium wrote...

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

THIS. And that's all I can say on the matter :innocent:

[Raven4030-2]

Nefelius wrote...

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alrigh! Thank you!10000 times thatnk you!" 
It's like dipsresing an angry mob with cold water.

Pull out a map, look at where Edmonton is. Look at your clock. Look at the position Ms. Merizan holds (according to her sig).

I'm incredibly doubtful she's on the clock in the wee hours of the morning. This is her talking of her own free will and trying to build some common ground here. The most important asset to us is not the media exposure or recruitment, it's mutual respect between us and the human beings who work for Bioware. Because while yes, they can be told they have to make an alternate ending, it's that mutual respect that will not only allow for quality results if the order is handed down but also what makes them more willing to tell their bosses "maybe we should just give them what they want? It won't take that long".

[MatronAdena]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

While you may not personally agree with our end goal here at Retake, I respect your right to disagree. I hope this situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner for both sides.

Maybe someday I can have an open and honest discussion about my personal feelings regarding the ending and the controversy that arose out of it. I can't at this point because someone will call it a "BioWare statement" or somehow affiliate me with the company. 

There was a much awaited patch for a " certain MMO" that was being pushed back...because a english version was not ready, yet some other versions were...well over a few months or a year ahead in patches.

I made the mistake as saying something over MSN that was more of a " musing" and suddenly I saw it plastered all over as " the community lead just said____________!  "

I can more than understand that. got so bad I actually had to stop talking and stay more or less limited to co-workers.


which was worse for me as I felt like I was loosing that connection .

[EsterCloat]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

While you may not personally agree with our end goal here at Retake, I respect your right to disagree. I hope this situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner for both sides.

However, just know that like any person advocating for a group, my personal opinion doesn't dictate how I represent the community. I rely on measurable metrics, community sentiment, and yes sometimes old fashioned anthropology. But I'm always your advocate. 

Of course. You've shown yourself to be very professional and I would never assume your personal views on this matter would color your response. This has been a trying time for you I'm sure and you've kept a cool head under the pressure you must be feeling from all sides. That is very commendable Ms. Merizan.

[Necrotron]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

This is probably not my place to say this, but I really feel bad about Casey's statement. That's just the way he talks (it's seriously awkward having one on one conversations with him in his office sometimes, but for the most part he's hugely inspiring). He put a lot of thought into it and I read over it and gave him my support. In previous companies I've worked for, the leadership NEVER writes their own statements. Someone from (yes) PR wrote them at my previous jobs. But at BioWare, Casey, Aaryn, Mark, Ray, they all write their own statements and it comes from them.

Sometimes even guys like Casey need people to trust that he has good intentions even if his language doesn't resonate.

I'm not being rude to anyone, but I fail to see how this gets misinterpreted. Really, honeslty, how can you not take this as a flat out, bold lie. If you don't know the end of your game enough to describe it in detail, then maybe that isn't your calling in life.

Obviously, they changed their minds mid production to provide a cryptic interpretable ending (which can lead to Indoctrination Theory or be taken literally) instead of the traditional ending.  It does what it does well, if having a few questionable choices of events (Normandy running away at the end).

But one thing is certain, the 'twist' ending disappointed a lot of people, myself included.  I never pay attention to forums and always block out all external sources when I am playing a game, because I play to enjoy it.  This was one of the few cases where I was so confused and disappointed, I thought I would hop on the forums to find out what in the world happened.  When I found out I wasn't alone, I joined the movement to try and find a better resolution to my favorite series of all time.

All we really want is an ending DLC that provides a more complete explanation of the story events, an explaination of the outcome of the decisions made, especially with regard to the planets, races, and companions detailed throughout the series, and a heroic ending which provides a better sense of accomplishment.

Modifié par Bathaius, 21 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[Nithe]

Nefelius wrote...

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alright! Thank you!10000 times thank you!" 
It's like dispersing an angry mob with cold, but sweetened water.

There's no question that part of her intent behind that post was to have a calming effect.
And that's a good thing, we do not want to be an angry mob; the only thing angry mobs are good for is violence and I have no interest in that.

However, to be fair, it is possible that the post is partially a feint as well, ment to distract us... but lets keep our feet on the ground, at least for the moment and until we have evidence to back it up.

[Maglor07]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

While you may not personally agree with our end goal here at Retake, I respect your right to disagree. I hope this situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner for both sides.

Maybe someday I can have an open and honest discussion about my personal feelings regarding the ending and the controversy that arose out of it. I can't at this point because someone will call it a "BioWare statement" or somehow affiliate me with the company. 

However, just know that like any person advocating for a group, my personal opinion doesn't dictate how I represent the community. I rely on measurable metrics, community sentiment, and yes sometimes old fashioned anthropology. But I'm always your advocate. 

Like many others, I'm thankful as well for you taking time to respond to our posts.
But again, as some have mentioned - the perceived "rage" comes from the deafening silence coming from BW/EA. There have been no official statements on what they're planning to do, but at the same time people that aren't directly related to the company - IGN, Levein, etc - have commented on the issue. I personally don't understand how is that even an option for your company.

Another thing that people feel enraged about is being called a minority - whereas every poll available on the internet shows that those dissatisfied with the endings are anything but the minority.

[Thrawn81]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

While you may not personally agree with our end goal here at Retake, I respect your right to disagree. I hope this situation is resolved in a satisfactory manner for both sides.

Maybe someday I can have an open and honest discussion about my personal feelings regarding the ending and the controversy that arose out of it. I can't at this point because someone will call it a "BioWare statement" or somehow affiliate me with the company. 

However, just know that like any person advocating for a group, my personal opinion doesn't dictate how I represent the community. I rely on measurable metrics, community sentiment, and yes sometimes old fashioned anthropology. But I'm always your advocate. 

@Jessica Merizan
Is it possible that someone from PR people can make sucha post in german forums?
The german RETAKE front and ending pro´s also needs to know that!

Thanks

[VAIOMANIAC]

Well this is aint going nowhere anyway still holding the line.
But if this is not adressed at pax i`m out and you have just lost a loyal customer that has enjoyed your games throughout the years since 1996.

Modifié par VAIOMANIAC, 21 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Nefelius]

She said absolutely nothing that would "sedate" anyone who is upset about the endings though.  No one is going to stop holding the line because we attempted to have a nice chat with the person who is gathering our feedback to be analyzed. 

Attention  sedates. Don't you see? The whole point of the post was - "Stop misunderstanding me. Yes, we're listening. Thanks for your feedback." But it was well hidden in wall of text. 
And now everyone swallows the same but prettified statement they got for 2 weeks , and feels happy, because of the direct attention.

Modifié par Nefelius, 21 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[AllThatJazz]

At the risk of sounding like a deranged fangirl, Jessica, you are quite the star. Thanks for the post, and for being so communicative in general since the release of ME3. Whatever people's opinions of the game, endings, whatever, your professionalism and courtesy is much appreciated

[Jessica Merizan]

Cybermortis wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...



<Please forgive the snip>

3) The above rule is quite simple. 90% of consumers will passively engage in the product through consumption (such as playing a video game). They might lurk on forums or read articles. 9% of these people will take it a step further and actively engage in discussions and talk. These are the people that you rely on for WOM sales (word of mouth). They'll "like" a post on Facebook, share it to their wall, reply to a forum thread, RT or reply to something on Twitter. Then you have people who take it one step further and create content based on the original product. These are your fan artists, cosplayers, and even as simple as someone who starts a forum thread or makes a youtube video.

3A) An example I gave of this on Twitter is 3 products that I enjoy: Dominos pizza, the television show The Venture Brothers, and the Mass Effect Franchise. While I spend an embarrassing amount of money on Dominos every month, I don't discuss my purchase online with my friends. I haven't "Liked" their page on Facebook and I'm not a member of their community. I'm still an important consumer and I vote with my wallet. However I'm in that 90% that Dominos is constantly trying to engage with pizza ordering widgets to share on my Facebook wall etc. But I'm not biting. On the other hand, I'm a much more vocal consumer of the Venture Brothers. I'm in the 9% there. I've been a member of several fan sites, tuned into their livestreams and donated money during their charity drives, I tweet quotes from the show and am involved in discussions with other fans I met online. And finally, long before I worked for BioWare, I was in the 1% of this community. Even though I didn't go on the forums much (other than lurk), I created costumes, spread my love of their games at conventions, actively participated in their facebook initiatives etc.

3B) This doesn't just apply to people who like something. This applies to consumption as a whole. The 9% vocal minority isn't a bunch of naysayers. It's literally just the vocal bunch out of the entire group. It includes people who like, dislike, and are neutral. The media has just latched onto "vocal minority" as if it's a bad thing. It's not. It's just the way consumption works. Go look at any Facebook page, specifically their "People Talking About This" (PTAT). We consider 10% a great number. 20% is off the charts. But it rarely goes above that. It's just the way things work.
 

There is something I'd like to note/ask at this point about the 90-9-1 principle as it *may* apply to some of the discussions about ME3 - at least on these boards.

Is the 90-9-1 principal based on 'traditional' marketing studies alone, or did/does it include research into internet habits and trends?

I ask because it occurs to me that more people may be inclined to make comments via the internet than through more traditional means. It's fast, easy and somewhat impersonal, which may mean that some of the 90% who wouldn't normally say anything are willing to do so. The question comes from the number of people I've seem posting on here who start with 'Never felt the need to post before' or something along those lines. I'm wondering if the 90-9-1 'rule' can be truely said to apply to the internet or not.

It's largely applied these days to social media, online communities, and CRM campaigns with email newsletters (which is where a lot of the marketing comes in). 

I use it when thinking about community. Again, it's not a hard scientific rule (nothing in sociology is really) but it's a good thing to keep in mind.