9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Nadtsat]

Thermorium wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

THIS. And that's all I can say on the matter :innocent:

Just going to quote and repost, because people won't see it because the forums move so fast. But i think people need to understand that it's actually, legitimately going to take time.

Untill than though, you guys know what to do 

This is a reply Angry Joe could add to his vid on the Indoc Theory.

[RagingCeltik]

Thermorium wrote...

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

I don't care if I like the endings, I just want to be able to respect them.   Right now the endings are like that 50 year old bar fly you woke up next to in the morning after too many concrete mixers.   You just want to forget it ever happened...

[Hcjung10]

ReavousX wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

But this BioWare PR damage control stuff is ridiculous. How can we expect to have a conversation about this when people are slinging around jargon that frankly none of our PR professionals have ever even heard of. You're making yourselves paranoid and rejecting anything we have to say. It's one thing to be skeptical (as a consumer, it's smart to be an informed buyer) but it's another thing to lead yourself to believe that someone is actively trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

And any PR person would tell you this entire post is a mistake to write and publish.

So PR doesn't know their jobs, but don't want you talking to the community. No wool huh?

And this my friends is the best example of what I was describing in my post. Not interested in debating but I couldn't have made up a better case study for my words getting picked apart and twisted in a manner that I did not intend.

EA analyses hundreds of user metrics on us, and you tell us we shouldn't be critical of your companies behaviour. I am horribly disappointed with my experience with Mass Effect 3, and with the response to its problems. One in particular. And I've been talked down to by support staff, by Chris' 'helpful guide to patching', and I don't see any reason why we SHOULDN'T pick apart the responses we get.

Sounds like you're taking out a separate issue on Jessica here.  There's no need to pick a fight and antagonize.  That doesn't further your personal cause, Retake's cause, or help anyone.  We benefit much more by remaining calm and civil.

No, I support 
cApAc aMaRu. Merizan was being needlessly aggressive. As much as she is a human being she is also the face of a company. Miss Marizan should not have singled out anyone, in the context of consumer relationship.

[Tirranek]

Nefelius wrote...

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alright! Thank you!10000 times thank you!" But everyone forgets that the issue is still there.
It's like dispersing an angry mob with cold, but sweetened water.

So someone stays silent, opinion is proven. Someone says anything, opinion is proven. 'Us vs Them', trust nothing, be suspicious of absolutely everything and reject anything 'they' say because it's a ploy to pacify you. It's like you almost want nothing to change.

[Nithe]

ReavousX wrote...

*snip*

That's right, we're only fighting the good fight if we do nothing but post "Hold the line!"

Please, stop.  We were going to have to wait for answers ANYWAYS.  If you think we're going to see progress before PAX, you're naive.  Nobody is going anywhere.  Seriously.  Do you realize how many people won't even see her comments?  It's early in the morning, and by the time the thread starts heating up, the topic will be on something totally different.  Come midday, the majority of posters will only have a vague idea of what discussion took place here.

We will aggreagte her comments and put them on the front post, as is our M.O., and everyone will get to see them. And speculation helps keep morale up, so I see no point in discouraging it.

Modifié par Nithe, 21 mars 2012 - 10:41 .

[jupitertronic]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Lil One wrote...

Regarding "vocal minority", many people, me included, have stepped out from being silent lurkers to actually coming forth, all due to this issue. At first I thought it was just me, but then I realised (searching the net before here) that I was far from alone, and so I stepped up here.

We need more people like you!

I was one of those who loved BioWare since KOTOR and Mass Effect since launch day, but I didn't participate in the community in any way... until this. 

And I'm not just making a fuss now that I dislike something about the game. I was singing its praises at the top of my lungs back in ME2 when I felt the series could do no wrong. Similarly, I talked up ME3 all the way up until I finished the game. Then I let everyone know how disappointed I was.

Edit: Someone made a good point about DA2 and how they didn't like it but they didn't feel the need to post about it, either. I only played DA:O and I hated it so much I stopped playing a few hours in, but I also didn't feel the need to talk about it to anyone. We keep saying it but it's true: If we didn't love Mass Effect so much, we wouldn't be so upset.

Modifié par jupitertronic, 21 mars 2012 - 10:44 .

[Thermorium]

RagingCeltik wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

I don't care if I like the endings, I just want to be able to respect them.   Right now the endings are like that 50 year old bar fly you woke up next to in the morning after too many concrete mixers.   You just want to forget it ever happened...

Perhaps "like" wasn't the word i should've used. But still, anything other than dislike would be better. However, they have to please many different people, and that's going to be hard.

[Zero.Gee]

I'm actually kind of curious what Hunter is going to have to say about this whole exchange as well.

[Nightdragon8]

support what your doing and thanks. The biggest issue is Closure not a "Happy ending" While I wouldn't mind a happy ending, hell really the Destory/shep last breath could be classified as a happy ending. Having your LI on some random planet isn't. Expecly knowning that said LI would NEVER leave earth like that.

I dont mind bittersweet endings, its just this one was so badly done it just left a bitter ending.

[Nithe]

People, when you quote a long set of replies please SNIP the extraneous parts, we don't need to jack up the page count anymore than necessary.

[Phoenix NL]

Thrawn81 wrote...

So germans dont get an answer in here?!?

On this particular one give the lady a break. It's very early in Edmonton at the moment and certainly on her personal time. I'm sure it'll happen. Remember, the boards are also moving very fast at the moment, it's sometimes hard to keep track!

[IchikoSakura]

jupitertronic wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

<snip quote>

I was one of those who loved BioWare since KOTOR and Mass Effect since launch day, but I didn't participate in the community in any way... until this. 

And I'm not just making a fuss now that I dislike something about the game. I was singing its praises at the top of my lungs back in ME2 when I felt the series could do no wrong. Similarly, I talked up ME3 all the way up until I finished the game. Then I let everyone know how disappointed I was.

Me too, I did sing the praise of ME 3 for days, then I played the final ten minutes, and now I'm here, no longer part of the silent majority.
My history with BioWare goes way back to BG II ...

[ReavousX]

Nithe wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

*snip*

That's right, we're only fighting the good fight if we do nothing but post "Hold the line!"

Please, stop.  We were going to have to wait for answers ANYWAYS.  If you think we're going to see progress before PAX, you're naive.  Nobody is going anywhere.  Seriously.  Do you realize how many people won't even see her comments?  It's early in the morning, and by the time the thread starts heating up, the topic will be on something totally different.  Come midday, the majority of posters will only have a vague idea of what discussion took place here.

We will aggreagte her comments and put them on the front post, as is our M.O., and everyone will get to see them. And speculation helps keep morale up, so I see no point in discouraging it.

Yes yes, I know, it'll be on the OP, but I think that's pretty much grown to the point of diminishing returns.  It'll be there, and yes some people will bring it up, but the thread will move on sooner rather than later.  

I'm all for the speculation too, sort of.  Some people take it to the max.  Not everything is a psy-op. 

[Sypher_KoS]

@Jessica

First I would like to thank you for taking the time to talk to us and shed some new light on your post and to clarify your meaning. Social networking has increased the levels of scrutiny to unprecidented if not unhealthly levels sometimes.

That being said, your post ultimatley adds to what our problem right now is and that is the stagnation of our current discussion. BW would love to give us more answers, just not now. They would love to open up a lengthly discussion, at a later time. We are gathering more data and we encouraging you to wait. People are looking for answers and in lack of actual ones from BW they will rely on any theory or conjecture they can find or create.

BW has been very vague as of right now and had we been given a more straight forward answer it might have helped quell the storm. We ask "why aren't they talking to us or offering a more detailed explanation instead of just wait?" With no other response, one can't help but feel that we are being ignored in the hopes we'll just go away.

We want to talk but right now BW is gathering data to see if its worth pandering to us or not finacially. We will be here when they decide if they want to or not.

[Jessica Merizan]

I'm a dummy. Left my laptop charger at work so I wouldn't be tempted to you know work at home, so now my computer just died write as I was finishing a reply. Writing on my phone. I guess that means it's time to go to sleep

Be well my community friends. I will continue lurking but I imagine this thread will have shifted to other things by the time I wake up. Again, I have no intention to make you change your mind about the endings or how you feel but I hope this was useful for both sides to talk as equals for a little while. I value this community and I'd be damned if I'd ever go this far as the community manager for any other studio.

You guys make me proud to work for you

Night for me! I should go.

[Utopianus]

@ Jessica

First of all, thank you for taking your time writing this, and it certainly is good to know and I applaud that you managed to write this in a professional manner despite under stress.

I will declare now that the following are my own views and are not necessarily that of the community.

In regards to the issue of speculating over PR, I agree, there is a degree of paranoia within this largely level-headed community. That is not a problem, but in fact symptom of a problem, which is shakened faith. I'm sure you have already read a few earlier posts regarding a fairly long list of explicit promises that in the end were not fufilled. I understand you are in no position to comment on whether or not they were indeed fulfilled, but the fact remains - these people have not without reasons concluded, with evidence, that promises were not fufilled and thus have lost faith. It does not matter if this was simply a miscommunication, the fact that the company has made no attempts to even try and address the discrepancies in those statements and the end product in a meaningful way is what had really taken a toll on faith. Also, this is by no means a one-off, spontaneous event, this loss of faith, it is the culmination of what I gather (had been out of the BioWare market since ME2, but I've seen enough complaints in this forum to piece together what happened) to be a series of inadequate communication between the company and its customers stretching from sometime around the release of Dragon Age 2 to the Ashes DLC, thus this is the last straw for many of these people. In other words, this is the final outcome of a series of disappointments.

I would suggest that the paranoia in this camp is rather entrenched, which is an obstacle to real, honest dialogue between the community and the company, and won't be removed until faith in the company has been restored. I won't suggest how that might happen, but a real, sincere and genuine attempt to address the series of disagreements and broken promises for the past year or so, with specific focus on the issues pertaining to ME3, be they real or perceived, is the place to start.


Wish you and the staff at BioWare all a wonderful day.

EDIT: fixed format

Modifié par Utopianus, 21 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[Thore2k10]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Thrawn81 wrote...

So germans dont get an answer in here?!?

On this particular one give the lady a break. It's very early in Edmonton at the moment and certainly on her personal time. I'm sure it'll happen. Remember, the boards are also moving very fast at the moment, it's sometimes hard to keep track!

yeah, have some patience!

Modifié par Thore2k10, 21 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[Thrawn81]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Thrawn81 wrote...

So germans dont get an answer in here?!?

On this particular one give the lady a break. It's very early in Edmonton at the moment and certainly on her personal time. I'm sure it'll happen. Remember, the boards are also moving very fast at the moment, it's sometimes hard to keep track!

I´am sorry to sound angry or something, a simble yes or no is what i´ve ask for!
But nwm i see the forum is burning atm so take your time!

[Beti88]

Well, actual letter has been sent too. Shame it will take a week to cross the ocean.

[VAIOMANIAC]

Thrawn81 wrote...

So germans dont get an answer in here?!?

No response for Norwegians either maybe Bioware is anti German and Norwegian 

[Nithe]

@ReavousX: Both of your points are valid, but I don't see a good alternative. =/

[RagingCeltik]

Thermorium wrote...

RagingCeltik wrote...

Thermorium wrote...

Nadtsat wrote...

Nithe wrote...

cutegigi wrote...

please forgive me for asking a very naive question, but can please someone explain to me why there are logistics that need to be involved when we are only talking an answer to a question ??

Tis' a fair question, I will admit.

Yes, one I wouldn't mind having an answer for.
But sometimes, I think one must resort to "42"

By no means an expert on this, but i think that we're not just talking about "an answer to a question" here. 
If this is to be handled correctly, than things need to be done correctly. How do you make sure things are handled correctly? You plan meetings, and start talking. And you need to do lots of talking and plan lots of meeting to make sure this is resolved in a satisfactory way for the majority of people involved. EA needs to be ok with it, bioware need to be ok with it, the fans who disliked the ending have to like it, and you don't want to disenfranchise people who liked the ending.

Just think about it for a bit, it takes a lot more effort than you'd think on first glance.

I don't care if I like the endings, I just want to be able to respect them.   Right now the endings are like that 50 year old bar fly you woke up next to in the morning after too many concrete mixers.   You just want to forget it ever happened...

Perhaps "like" wasn't the word i should've used. But still, anything other than dislike would be better. However, they have to please many different people, and that's going to be hard.

That's true.   You're never going to be able to please everyone.   But I don't think it's the content of the endings so much as the lack of content.   I think this whole movement might not have gotten as much steam as it did if the endings just took more care to explain the aftermath of the crucible, to give actual resolution to the characters that we spent 90+ hours with and the state of the galaxy as we left it.   As I say in my mission statement about this whole thing, I don't what to tell Bioware how to end it, they just need to actually end it well.  A space epic is not the place to get short, artsy, and vague with the finale.

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 21 mars 2012 - 10:51 .

[cApAc aMaRu]

Hcjung10 wrote...

ReavousX wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

Jessica Merizan wrote...

But this BioWare PR damage control stuff is ridiculous. How can we expect to have a conversation about this when people are slinging around jargon that frankly none of our PR professionals have ever even heard of. You're making yourselves paranoid and rejecting anything we have to say. It's one thing to be skeptical (as a consumer, it's smart to be an informed buyer) but it's another thing to lead yourself to believe that someone is actively trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

And any PR person would tell you this entire post is a mistake to write and publish.

So PR doesn't know their jobs, but don't want you talking to the community. No wool huh?

And this my friends is the best example of what I was describing in my post. Not interested in debating but I couldn't have made up a better case study for my words getting picked apart and twisted in a manner that I did not intend.

EA analyses hundreds of user metrics on us, and you tell us we shouldn't be critical of your companies behaviour. I am horribly disappointed with my experience with Mass Effect 3, and with the response to its problems. One in particular. And I've been talked down to by support staff, by Chris' 'helpful guide to patching', and I don't see any reason why we SHOULDN'T pick apart the responses we get.

Sounds like you're taking out a separate issue on Jessica here.  There's no need to pick a fight and antagonize.  That doesn't further your personal cause, Retake's cause, or help anyone.  We benefit much more by remaining calm and civil.

No, I support 
cApAc aMaRu. Merizan was being needlessly aggressive. As much as she is a human being she is also the face of a company. Miss Marizan should not have singled out anyone, in the context of consumer relationship.

All we get from EA and Bioware is:
If you don't like it return it.
Problems will be fixed when they are fixed.
Excuses.
Explanations of Excuses.
Apologies for 'speaking out of turn'

What we need is:
Gestures of good will to people with major faults (Face importation broken, MP gear vanishing, etc)
Acknowledgement of technical issues.
Why EA and Bioware reneged on promises about the game ending. (Like that there would be endings, plural.)
If not a timefram then at least a progress update.

What we REALLY need is:
A far less patronising attitude by EA and Bioware as a company. They want to push the envelope with sex and romance in their games, but they treat the community like fourteen year old boys.