9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Lellandra]

cadoodle wrote...

This One just made its donation to Child's Play. This One joins in the vocalization regarding to maintaining control of the linear representation of a battle grouping.

You speaking like a hanar made me chuckle!  hehehehe

[FortuneGrand]

I'm not usually one to post on forums and whatnot (this is my first on BSN). I was also a latecomer in the Mass Effect series, after hearing about the success of Mass Effect 2 and how you could transfer your save file over from Mass Effect 1 I could not resist getting myself into such an epic, involving and cinematic experience, since I've always been a strong believer of video games as a storytelling medium. Seeing how my choices persisted through three consecutive games in shaping my adventure is what sold the series for me. This is what brings me to the heart of the problem for me and a lot of others. Enough lying to myself, I admit that after finishing Mass Effect 3, I was somewhat not entirely satisfied. Immediately upon completion however, my brain was still in awe at the journey I'd just been through in the trilogy and accepted the ending for what it was, except something was not quite right. I'm sure those who enjoyed the ending could argue that there is a way to make sense of it through certain interpretations, given its sudden tonal and philosophical shift during the climax, naturally tons of debate will follow. Just like how the against-arguments also work with interpretation.

I on the other hand, despite 'accepting' the conclusive nature of the game, actually felt a deep sense of depression...no other game has ever made me feel this way. And I was naturally curious to find out more about what the endings meant, and what themes they ultimately symbolised. This led me to BSN, where I, to no surprise, found so many people to feel the same way and be disappointed by the lack of closure and variety presented in the final scenes of the game. I've been lurking in the forums literally 24/7 since beating Mass Effect 3, where throughout the time spent here I kept track of almost every thread and topic posted, trying to find some comfort and answers as well as thinking about all the theories the people have come up with whether they were strongly agreed on, supported or ridiculed.

Slowly I became convinced that the ending was not what it seemed, and bought into certain parts of the 'Indoctrination Theory'. Maybe I was just in denial and consumed by 'mob mentality', but maybe it was my dissatisfaction that led me to the forums in the first place and conclude that the endings were simply lacking in quality compared to the rest of the experience in what I would otherwise probably consider the best games/stories I have ever played and experienced. I really tried to rationalize and be constructive with my thoughts about it all but there were always the underlying feelings of confusion and anger. I'm sure all the hardcore fans out there have been living in these forums for closure too, and kept up to date on the latest arguments from both sides as well as the countless articles from gaming and mainstream websites.

I think the donations and the movement are truly brilliant and shows just how dedicated and loyal fans are to the series, and I've been trying to keep my hopes up about Bioware keeping to Casey Hudson's 'promises' by delivering a surprise extended ending, since I thought if they could pull this off right it would really be the biggest and most ambitious stunt/twist ever attempted and a true spectacle in gaming experience. I believed it was all an act to save spoiling the true ending for the global fanbase, and through 'real-time player indoctrination', they would soon announce the news of an ending DLC after all the speculation and interpretation they wanted from the fans in order to make the end of the trilogy truly memorable (after everyone had completed the game), instead of simply cheaply trying to gain publicity through shock factor. If this was the case, the company would achieve godmode in my eyes. However, the longer I waited and the more responses I came across from the developers, the more I became worried that the current ending was exactly the way they intended it to be. This however, does not mean all hope is lost. Right now I am trying to fight these thoughts and stay positive, and I need all of your support in having faith.

I understand a lot of people are upset about what Casey Hudson said in regards to the conclusion of Mass Effect 3. Some may even give up trying to "hold the line", and has taken his statement as a definitive "no" to changing/expanding the ending. I'm here to share my thoughts, feelings and hopefully to help share some perspective on why his letter is actually a beacon of hope. In case some of you guys haven't read it yet, here is what he said:

"There’s been a lot of discussion and debate about the conclusion of Mass Effect 3, so I thought I’d share my perspective with you here. I’ll avoid outright spoilers, but I’d still recommend finishing the game and experiencing it for yourself before reading this.

For the last eight years, Mass Effect has been a labor of love for our team; love for the characters we’ve created, for the medium of video games, and for the fans that have supported us. For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.

We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make along the way. Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.

We've had some incredibly positive reactions to Mass Effect 3, from the New York Times declaring it “a gripping, coherent triumph”, to Penny Arcade calling it “an amazing accomplishment”, to emails and tweets from players who have given us the most profound words of appreciation we've ever received.

But we also recognize that some of our most passionate fans needed more closure, more answers, and more time to say goodbye to their stories—and these comments are equally valid. Player feedback such as this has always been an essential ingredient in the development of the series.

I am extremely proud of what this team has accomplished, from the first art concepts for the Mass Effect universe to the final moments of Mass Effect 3. But we didn't do it on our own. Over the course of the series, Mass Effect has been a shared experience between the development team and our fans—not just a shared experience in playing the games, but in designing and developing them. An outpouring of love for Garrus and Tali led to their inclusion as love interests in Mass Effect 2. A request for deeper RPG systems led to key design changes in Mass Effect 3. Your feedback has always mattered. Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen.

So where do we go from here? Throughout the next year, we will support Mass Effect 3 by working on new content. And we’ll keep listening, because your insights and constructive feedback will help determine what that content should be. This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard.

We look forward to your continued support and involvement as we work together to shape the remaining experiences in the story of the Mass Effect trilogy.

Thanks for taking this journey with us.

Casey Hudson"

Indeed I am starting to believe they never predicted the backlash to be so severe with the ending they originally intended in the first place. And indeed this is typical PR damage control, after all they are an organization and need to be smart in issuing a statement and respond in a way that causes the least possible harm to their business. This is understandable of course, and sometimes that means being vague and not answering each and every question straight away, because not everyone will agree with their plan of action either way.

The way I see Casey Hudson's response is that it's a clever way in addressing several things, to sell the game further, to simply show that they are listening and have in the past let the fans co-create and continue the Mass Effect universe, as well as astutely admitting that they had not prepared for such a reaction from fans, by 'validating' all the negative feedback. He/Bioware could have clearly kept silent for longer, and at the very least he is showing that he cares by simply acknowledging the controversy instead of just 'disappearing' now that they've sold millions of copies. I know some angry fans will probably be even angrier after reading what he said, as I know I was initially, but if you put yourself for a moment in the shoes of ones who actually loved the ending, you will view his statement in a completely different perspective. Those pro-ending fans may think that everything was absolutely fine and would hate to see a change, and just like they should respect our opinions, we should respect theirs. So understandably Casey isn't addressing any of the 'problems' right away as it could backfire and cause even more friction within the community. The pro-ending fans would call out Bioware for giving in their integrity and being weak in sticking with their artistic vision, even for simply apologizing in any fashion, and I think the last thing we need right now is a divide in the fanbase.

Bioware/Casey Hudson at this point are simply being withholding and cautious whilst getting every bit of information they need to decide what their next step is. Of course they are trying to maintain public relations at this point, but they WILL listen to fans and let it ultimately become the outcome in their future plans, simply because pleasing the masses is good business. Call it stalling if you wish, just remember that Mass Effect is Casey Hudson/Bioware's brainchild, and they would not let this franchise rot to hell like this with the fanbase. I'm an impatient person myself, but honestly ask yourself, would you wait a year for the release of a well thought out and a quality-produced ending, or not have one at all? As long as our voices are heard through constructive feedback (and you have all done amazingly by the way), we will accomplish what we came here for. There is now a 'Suggested Changes' thread which I urge all of you passionate fans to post your opinions in, because every single one of them matters. Maybe this is all just blind optimism, but nobody ever got anywhere by being negative. I've never posted on BSN and hardly any other forums until now, and I know a lot of you silent visitors are just as passionate about what you want as the vocal ones are. Now's your chance to speak up! Thanks for your time.

[Hedera]

We are legion, for we are many. Hold the Line.

[Amagoi]

Just now read this. Holding the line and thanking OP and atqhunter. Very fascinating insight into what's going on. It gives the fans who read these some more direction and coordination, which will help vastly in the long run.

Thanks again

[LegendaryBlade]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

You will note that ATGhunter's post and the others in this thread was one of the few to warrant an official response. Yes, I know, reading into it too much and conspiracy theory, but it does make you take notice.

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

Well we appreciate it, or at least I do. It feels like you're really being on level with us, while I think a great many of us feel like the majority of Bioware is quick to dismiss the issue.

Thanks for posting

[Laughing_Man]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Nobody said that you were lying, but you will have to forgive us if we choose at this point to take everything bioware says with alot of salt.

[Skirata129]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

You will note that ATGhunter's post and the others in this thread was one of the few to warrant an official response. Yes, I know, reading into it too much and conspiracy theory, but it does make you take notice.

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

I think I can speak for everyone here when I say we appreciate you addressing us and the honesty. bearing this in mind, you need to be careful, as it sounds like you are doing this on your own initiative, and in a situation this sensitive, you could face real consequences at work.

[KRAETZNER]

Naked David wrote...

They didn't vanish. They biotic charged back to the Normandy and then charged in unison to take the Normandy to Gilligan's Island with them

Ever since I saw the abomination of an ending, I've imagined Shepherd charging through the relays instead of the pretty colors, and all the reapers dying from him using nova.

[Jarrett Lee]

Caz Neerg wrote...

Nice to see that Merizan isn't the only one who can communicate like a real person, rather than solely in PR doublespeak.

The unfortunate implication of Jarrett Lee's post is that, while they are paying attention and are not enjoying our discontent, they aren't allowing it to interfere with their pre-planned schedule at all. Which, frankly, implies that they don't take us that seriously, or they would actually be adjusting something based on our reaction, rather than having pretty much everything proceed as if the controversy doesn't exist.

So formal, just call me Jarrett

The execution of a few marketing things we'd already planned doesnt preclude this situation being taken seriously, believe me.

[charon45]

humes spork wrote...

Like I said, I was really oversimplifying when I said that and granted the need to account for sampling errors and response biases across the board. I was just putting the enormity of the responses in perspective, in comparison to what's actually needed to create a statistically valid poll all other circumstances being equal.

You are corrent in that you can infer a lot from relatively small sample sizes, if the pool is selected carefully.  A sample of hundreds could tell you a lot if it is representative of the whole population.  On the other hand, a bad sample can give biased results from huge sizes.  Since you have a poli sci background, polling half the state of Alabama would not give an accurate account of who would win a presidential election.  I agree that the BSN poll shows that fans of the series generally dislike the ending, but my inner researcher has to point out the difference between scientific and non-scientific polling.  I am on your side, though.  I signed up here just to voice my dissatisfaction with the ME3 ending.  Hold the line. 

[Sorael.A]

Hold the damned line!

They need us and if they want to keep us, they need to think about their option(s) The er one we've been talking about since day one.

I care about you Bioware, I really do, but something needs to be done.

Modifié par Sorael.A, 17 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[SyyRaaaN]

Imho, no PR-tricks in the world can save Bioware/EA now. They simply have to deliver something real. What I'm really interested in is if they will charge you $$$ for their repair of this game; and if people actually will spend $$$ when they try.

[Paparob]

Can...can I talk like a hanar too? No? OK how about volus?

I plan to *gasp* donate any money *gasp* to Child's Play I would have *gasp* spent on DLC.

[redknight38]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

You will note that ATGhunter's post and the others in this thread was one of the few to warrant an official response. Yes, I know, reading into it too much and conspiracy theory, but it does make you take notice.

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

Yeah but I got my tinfoil hat on already. Shoot, I can even go further and note you responded ("managed") to my observation that you seem to be trying to defuse and manage this thread that has the potential to call out Bioware's responses to this whole imbroglio.

However, you're being friendly (I know it's your job, but it doesn't detract from the fact that you are) and I actually don't want to be confrontational or uncivil. Just... keeping track. It's not my job but I do have some investment in this Occupy Take Back Mass Effect movement. At the very least it's been wildly diverting. However, your other posts make you seem like a nice go so here, have a cheroot. I hand you my box. I figure a cheroot is what gentlemen with monocles hand each other, right?

Modifié par redknight38, 17 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[Karathossen]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

There's always going to be people who scream and yell and shout and moan. I do believe a well-liked alien soldier once said "Yell loud enough and someone will eventually come over to see what all the fuss is about". The disappointed and the angry want someone to come over and see what the fuss is about - it's an automatic method of trying to get an answer. It's just too bad it's pretty much automatic, because it's also the most counter-productive method.

I do believe the clear-cut simple "this is what's wrong" lists posted on this forum aswell as rewritten in articles on numerous sites are evidence of patience. Heck, the Child's Play charity ought to be the ultimate show that in the fanbase there exists a substantial demographic of people who are willing to - nay, who are -already discussing- this with patience and calm.

Just like the last five-ten minutes (NOTE: personal opinion) made an otherwise gorgeous game look terrible - the loud venom-tongued minority can make valid debates and patient fans seem non-existent.

Don't be fooled, Jarrett, and thank you for at least writing -something- in a time when the community seriously needs to hear straight answers from reps. Even if, as I said, some will immediately mark them as lies. It's the day and age we live in, alas, corporate business has ruined its own image so people are suspicious at best - with good reason.

Modifié par Karathossen, 17 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[shadowspecialist]

dam straight.
Holding the Line.

[toots1221]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

I really want to believe this. I'm trying to be patient, it's hard to remember sometimes that the game has only been out for a little over a week. It feels like it's been a lot longer.

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Get in some relaxation time.  This is stressful for everybody involved.

[Avarenda]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

Jarrett,

I appreciate you taking the time to comment on this thread. It always good to have input from a Bio Mod. I hope you understand however, that regardless of when Operation Goliath was planned, I still intend not to participate in an event i otherwise would have been all over.

Participating in your event while currently boycotting ME3's ending would be rather hypocritical.

Still, thanks for the input.

[Battlefrag91]

 I don't believe I'll make another purchase from Bioware/EA merely because I'm afraid of the disappointment. I'll still play ME3, especially multiplayer, but when I tried playing Single Player today...my heart just wasn't in it. I just made decisions without thinking about how I wanted it to turn out because I knew there would be no impact in the end.

I hate to say it, but the end has kind of ruined the Mass Effect rxperience for me. Multiplayer is still fun, though.

[Maugrim]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

redknight38 wrote...

You will note that ATGhunter's post and the others in this thread was one of the few to warrant an official response. Yes, I know, reading into it too much and conspiracy theory, but it does make you take notice.

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

*puts down doll and needle*  Are you absolutely sure about that Mr. Lee ? 

Yeah TBH the stuff like the TOR free weekend is fortiutous for ya'll but obvious not an olive branch for the ME3 issue.  To be frank you guys aren't agile enough in your PR to pull that off! 

[Naked David]

Dark Wyn wrote...

Jarrett Lee wrote...

Most of these things you see as olive branches aren't that at all. They are part of the already planned launch period of ME3 (Star Wars I can't speak for). The N7 MP weekend was planned some time ago - before the ending situation came to light. Not everything revolves around this controversy. It's just unfortunate timing. Same goes for the recent strategy videos for example - we filmed those weeks ago. I think Corey and Eric did a great job in them and was dismayed at the vitriol in the YouTube comments.

You're complaints are being heard, and considered and discussed etc, but I wouldn't read so much into some of the marketing stuff we're doing. I know a lot of you won't buy that - i cant "prove it" - but I've actually always been honest with you guys all the way back to ME1. Operation Goliath is an event we planned because the multiplayer is really fun, and we want to engage the players with it (i just completed the challenge tonight myself!). Of course we had events and releases planned for the week after launch-week. There are no nefarious scheming evil meetings on this topic. We take it seriously, and are discussing it internally. Nobody is happy or dismissive about the fan reaction, at BioWare. Quite the opposite really. These are good people who care deeply about the work they do.

I would suggest patience but not sure there's receptiveness to that at this point.

Guess that's all I wanted to say for now. Have a good night/weekend.

As much as I want to see the endings fixed guys, I am beginning to see ((was too caught up in "rage" to care at first)) that the guys at Bioware are still people too.  They've spent years working on this series and the backlash from us must be hard to deal with.  "dismayed at the vitriol in the Youtube comments"...think about it.  It must be rough to spend time, crafting things then have angry fans just stomp on it.  Hell, I don't even post my own art anymore because I fear reactions like this over at DevArt.
Point is, I am a firm believer in "hold the line" and I'm dying to see if we get our endings fixed up.  But seeing some of this and thinking about it all in retrospec, I feel bad for the guys at Bioware too.
Weather others agree with me or not, I DO appreciate the years of awesome stories from Bioware and the memories and I truly hope we give and you recieve awesome feedback to help bring about the endings and closure we ALL  ((us fans and you at BW)) truly deserve. 

Now I return to civily "holding the line"

They are people to. I hate that those guys got dumped on for the multiplayer vid. BUT its to be expected. No one wants to hear about anything but a fix.

[kzao88]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

There's no voodoo at work here - I'm just sitting on my couch reading this on my iPad, it has been a difficult week, I'm very tired, and wanted to respond to some of the points made here. I just followed the link from the thread about Casey's post

I for one understand work for BW's employees this week has been extremely hard (understatement i know). Just know alot of us are appreciative for your hard work, and we hope this fiasco will conclude in a way that leaves all parties happy.

Modifié par kzao88, 17 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[Sentr0]

Hold the line! (nice thread)