9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Maglor07]

mattynutz wrote...

what he said social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/324#10380552 

[phototed]

Ukjack44 wrote...

GizmoKodiak wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

FreakyProphet wrote...

RiGoRmOrTiS_UK wrote...

Jessicacs post is fine and I appreciate the time she spent to reply. But i'd love to know why she doesn't agree with the end goal of "retake mass effect" beyond supporting her fellow colleagues. How can changing it not be a good tying considering the obvious huge plotholes at the end.

Simply put, it's not her job. She's neither QA nor a writer, she is community manager. Her job is to find out what WE think, and deliver that information to her employers, not to tell everyone what her personal opinion about any aspect of the game is.

But she just gave her personal opinion of not agreeing with the movement. Would be nice to know her opinion of why the endings are ok the way they are...

She did say that in the future perhaps she can discuss with us her own opinions on the endings. 

Yet she openly disagrees with the Retake Mass Effect movement without providing a reason why. Then moans to us about saying we disagree with the ending and not saying why (even though we do). Hypocrite much?

Because it would be easy for readers to believe that it's bioware's words, even if it is her own opinion. 

[spacefiddle]

Nefelius wrote...

Harbing3r wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Sorry but i don't buy all this.
What i see now - people are getting distracted from the REAL issue, and start praising Jessica just for being paid attention to.
That's more that suspicious, sorry.

The REAL issue is that we all want a better, clearer ending for Mass Effect 3 and we're not going away until we do.... But there's no reason to be hostile, rude, unpleasant etc while we wait.

That's not what i meant and i do not inspire hostility towards Jessica or any other representative.
What i meant that now community is relieved - of course because there's a whole big "sedative" post. "They do listen! Everything will be alright! Thank you!10000 times thank you!" But everyone forgets that the issue is still there.
It's like dispersing an angry mob with cold, but sweetened water.

C'mon man, do you see anything in this thread after her post that indicates any of us have forgotten everything?
And Jessica came in here because she was actively engaged with a number of us, just prior, on Twitter.  Some of us posted the source of the 90-9-1 rule she cites here, and in turn she asked about where she and it were being discussed, and we provided links to this Threadnaught here.  So she stepped in to say something.

I think her opinion of there being "no PR tactics" is a little naive - I've worked as management in corporate structures myself - and EA absolutely has a strong marketing and PR arm.  Doesn't mean EVERYTHING anyone associated with Bioware says is some Nefarious Trick, however.

[mumwaldee369]

Psythorn wrote...

@Jessica
The forum is buzzing and threads are rolling fast so I've little hope, that you might find the time. But maybe you could shed some light on "numbers" beeing a PR person maybe you have more acurate knowledge.
I once read that behind every dissatisfied customer that speaks up there are about 2 who don't - on the other hand behind every satisfied customer that posts/calls etc. there are 10 who don't. Is this valid ?

In this case if looking at the mother of all ending polls (http://social.biowar...m/633606/polls/) on BW Network this would translate to:
Dislike: 58.000 people (use x3) = 174.000 people do not like it
Somewhat like it: 3800 people would like it if small changes would be applied (use x11) = 41.800 people
Like it: 1300 people (use x11) ) = 14.300 people like it
The missing 4 millions we do not know...

So 174.000 people do not like it whereas 56.100 like it to some extend. Thats about 3:1.

So I really can't understand how some people pretend that the end is pleasing a majority.
Yes the poll started out somewhat too "simple" but I think along with clearification in the first post it comes down to "like it", "somewhat like it" and "don't like it" - this set aside - are the assumptions valid ?

What is your take on this (please take my apologies if you already posted something somewhere about this in this fast rolling threads).

adam six sigma says it's closer to 25 customers that don't speak up.

http://www.adamssixs...ers_results.htm

Dissatisfied customers are an interesting group.
For every one that complains there are at least 25 who do not.
Dissatisfied customers by word of mouth will tell eight to sixteen others
about their dissatisfaction. With the web some are now telling thousands.
91% of dissatisfied customers never purchase goods or services from the
company again. A prompt effort to resolve a dissatisfied customer's issue will result in about 85% of them as repeat customers

Depending upon the business, new customer sales may cost 4 to 100 times
that of a sale to an existing customer.

[Seel]

mattynutz, classy post, luv it.

Modifié par Leesard, 21 mars 2012 - 01:19 .

[pseudonymic]

there's something a lot more useful than picking apart what bioware reps are doing or saying. not giving up, no matter how much time passes, and actively letting the game sit unused, unfinished or not purchased are the only currencies that will actually relay the message. lack of interest and lessened profit. passing the word on as it not being as great as expected to the next person who asks is far more effective than tearing these people apart.

[Turbotanden]

That poll cannot reflect my opinion. I thought the ending was awesomely brilliant (after I finished being mad for not realisin I was indoctrinated). But now I want the rest of the ending.

[Dalis918]

mattynutz has my approval as well

[cApAc aMaRu]

mattynutz wrote...

Awesome stuff

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Blah Blah, don't pick things apart

Totally agree. Sick of being told how we should behave to live up to THEIR expectations.

[jarrettwold]

atghunter wrote...

1) First, I will nether label you in a derogatory fashion nor denigrate your opinion Sir, you're entitled to your perspective just as everyone else is here. My speculations are from my own experiences, just you have claimed your opinions originate from yours. If you think I'm wrong, that's your prerogative. Let’s agree to disagree. I promise you I'm old enough and strong enough to accept an opinion I don't agree with.

2) As for my comments being a “straight up insurgency strategy”, you give me credit for being far more clever than I am and not giving the people here credit for being as smart as they are. Even as far back as my first post, I explained much of this is new and quite intriguing to me having an older PR perspective.

3) If you've worked your way through this thread (which I readily acknowledge is vast), you will see that most people (myself included) are committed to a civil discourse and that there is a clear distinction in discussions between a corporation that people vastly feel did not provide them with a quality product and the hard-working people in that company.



5) Moreover, I think you'd be surprised to find we have people here in this thread who liked the endings and not only engage in discussions, but are encouraged to use their voice no matter what side they are on. To say that you believe Bioware/EA is doing everything right is your opinion, but I hope you can civilly accept some people here think that view is simply wrong.

6) You ultimately make the point that Bioware is full of human beings. I would ask you to consider the other side of that coin. The customer base is full of human beings too. With an understanding of both sides of that coin, folks can remain civil and still argue their sides.

7) As you have paid me the courtesy of your constructive criticism, I hope you'll allow me two in return. Entering a discussion with a defensive tone often makes the other side wonder why you started the discourse in the first place. Second, if you really desire have a civil discourse, you probably shouldn't open that dialogue by calling the other person "dude". I assure you Sir, I'm far too old for that moniker.

1) You just did. Then spent seven paragraphs doing so.

2) It isn't a particularly clever strategy, and tends to backfire and work horribly in most situations. I'm giving credit to the idea that crowds can be shaped when it's an anti-establishment message. You are objectifying individuals and transforming them into some kind of "evil empire" (my phrasing) with nefarious tactics and means. Which means, psychologically, it allows a shortcut for a small but decent chunk of people to completely bypass civility.

3) Except you're not discriminating based on the corporation/individual distinction. You have spent quality time eliminating that distinction, from your very first post.

5) In terms of providing a forum (literally) for ideas, requesting feedback, telling everyone that they are going to dissect and look at the issue and indicating that meetings are underway. So far? They are doing everything right.

6) The customer base are human beings, which is why your strategy is so frustrating. It's incitement to the base, not explanation. There's a difference.

7) You're on a forum on a video game website, you'll get "dude" everytime out of the chute, regardless of age. It's an explicit pointer to the medium that I'm communicating on.

"Entering a discussion with a defensive tone often makes the other side wonder why you started the discourse in the first place." My favorite line of the entire post. I think that's the most well crafted, leading line in there.

The reason why I posted, wasn't defensive. If anything it was assertive, aggressive and pointed. I am saying your comments on PR strategy are; flawed, incorrect, broad generalizations that have more in common with conspiracy theory than actual logic. They are being used, and have the intent to incite and inflame rather than lead to constructive dialog.

My God, I feel like I'm living the 4chan equivalent of Plato's Republic and you're Thrasymachus.

[mattynutz]

maglor07, Leesard, Dalis918 (snip snip snip)

Thanks for your approval, guys. I don't want to come off as a D-bag, but I don't think it's fair to have to withhold criticism for fear of hurt feelings.

[Psythorn]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Psythorn wrote...

@Jessica
The forum is buzzing and threads are rolling fast so I've little hope, that you might find the time. But maybe you could shed some light on "numbers" beeing a PR person maybe you have more acurate knowledge.
I once read that behind every dissatisfied customer that speaks up there are about 2 who don't - on the other hand behind every satisfied customer that posts/calls etc. there are 10 who don't. Is this valid ?

In this case if looking at the mother of all ending polls (http://social.biowar...m/633606/polls/) on BW Network this would translate to:
Dislike: 58.000 people (use x3) = 174.000 people do not like it
Somewhat like it: 3800 people would like it if small changes would be applied (use x11) = 41.800 people
Like it: 1300 people (use x11) ) = 14.300 people like it
The missing 4 millions we do not know...

So 174.000 people do not like it whereas 56.100 like it to some extend. Thats about 3:1.

So I really can't understand how some people pretend that the end is pleasing a majority.
Yes the poll started out somewhat too "simple" but I think along with clearification in the first post it comes down to "like it", "somewhat like it" and "don't like it" - this set aside - are the assumptions valid ?

What is your take on this (please take my apologies if you already posted something somewhere about this in this fast rolling threads).

adam six sigma says it's closer to 25 customers that don't speak up.

http://www.adamssixs...ers_results.htm

Dissatisfied customers are an interesting group.
For every one that complains there are at least 25 who do not.
Dissatisfied customers by word of mouth will tell eight to sixteen others
about their dissatisfaction. With the web some are now telling thousands.
91% of dissatisfied customers never purchase goods or services from the
company again. A prompt effort to resolve a dissatisfied customer's issue will result in about 85% of them as repeat customers

Depending upon the business, new customer sales may cost 4 to 100 times
that of a sale to an existing customer.

Thank you... this was partially  what I was looking for... But I still do not know about satisfied customers...
And that would be needed as I'm interested in the majorities.
However... 1 dissatisfied customer speaking up is represents 25 who don't...
That would give us an impressive 58.000 x 25 = wait where is my excel = 1.450.000 people that do not like the ending... oh... ok... I THINK that's one reason why BW/EA should be/are bothered.

However I would really like to know the estimations for satisfied customers feedback - 1 satisfied customer would represent how many silent satisfied customers ?

Modifié par Psythorn, 21 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[Sarah Aran]

I'm off for now!

Keep holding the line, folks!

P.S. Try not to get wrapped up in Jessica's post, I'd rather put it down to one individual's comments rather than elevate it to the exhaustive weigh of a corporate line.

Modifié par Sarah Aran, 21 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[spacefiddle]

Jessica Merizan wrote...

PS I'm glad to hear so many people who are moving from the 90 to the 9. Will check BSN registrations and our Facebook PTAT

Nite 4 realzzz

It's amazing to me that an exchange on Twitter could lead to the analysis of a possible new dimension in an accepted sociology metric.  It's a bit recursive that this new dimension is probably what let this exchange and analysis happen in the first place.


Even if it shows nothing new in the 90-9-1 rule, I would like everyone to please note, detractors and supporters, that we now have Ms. Merizan analyzing new data and creating more work for herself in order to get better stats, entirely because a number of us had a civil, interesting and informative conversation (at like 3 am aaghghahah).  For those just tuning in, she mentioned the silent majority; cited the 90-9-1 rule; couple of us found a source article documenting it (i tweeted a link to it to several folks expressing doubt about the validity of the rule); and let folks here know about the exchange.  This is where being civil, engaged, and as up-front as possible gets us (all of us).  Cheers!

[Modokun]

mumwaldee369 wrote...

Psythorn wrote...

@Jessica
The forum is buzzing and threads are rolling fast so I've little hope, that you might find the time. But maybe you could shed some light on "numbers" beeing a PR person maybe you have more acurate knowledge.
I once read that behind every dissatisfied customer that speaks up there are about 2 who don't - on the other hand behind every satisfied customer that posts/calls etc. there are 10 who don't. Is this valid ?

In this case if looking at the mother of all ending polls (http://social.biowar...m/633606/polls/) on BW Network this would translate to:
Dislike: 58.000 people (use x3) = 174.000 people do not like it
Somewhat like it: 3800 people would like it if small changes would be applied (use x11) = 41.800 people
Like it: 1300 people (use x11) ) = 14.300 people like it
The missing 4 millions we do not know...

So 174.000 people do not like it whereas 56.100 like it to some extend. Thats about 3:1.

So I really can't understand how some people pretend that the end is pleasing a majority.
Yes the poll started out somewhat too "simple" but I think along with clearification in the first post it comes down to "like it", "somewhat like it" and "don't like it" - this set aside - are the assumptions valid ?

What is your take on this (please take my apologies if you already posted something somewhere about this in this fast rolling threads).

adam six sigma says it's closer to 25 customers that don't speak up.

http://www.adamssixs...ers_results.htm

Dissatisfied customers are an interesting group.
For every one that complains there are at least 25 who do not.
Dissatisfied customers by word of mouth will tell eight to sixteen others
about their dissatisfaction. With the web some are now telling thousands.
91% of dissatisfied customers never purchase goods or services from the
company again. A prompt effort to resolve a dissatisfied customer's issue will result in about 85% of them as repeat customers

Depending upon the business, new customer sales may cost 4 to 100 times
that of a sale to an existing customer.

That is absolutely fantastic, but if 25 people liked it for every 1 that didnt and was vocal about it, there would be more people that like it than who have actually played the game.

[Nurane]

Modokun wrote...
That is absolutely fantastic, but if 25 people liked it for every 1 that didnt and was vocal about it, there would be more people that like it than who have actually played the game.

I think he meant that there are 25 who were also dissatisfied but didn't speak up.

sorry if I stuck in the clarification and it wasn't needed.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

I am going to keep saying it. If we are such a small group how come bioware is spending so much time on us and what is up with all the stores marking down ME3 and offering refunds? They would only be doing that if they had heard from a lot more then 50,000 people worldwide. We are winning and don't let anyone tell you other wise. Now victory will not come for a month or two and in that time a lot of attack are going to be launched on us by the gaming press and by Bioware plants both here and on the facebook page and Bioware may even come out and say that they will never change the ending but remember they have lied in the past and they continue to lie about not needing MP to get Sp endings so don't believe them. If we hang on no matter what we will win. Please stick together.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

[magica87]

I missed some pages of post, I'm sorry...it seems that numbers are giving us right...thankfully!
so...some significant news from bioware?

[Modokun]

Nurane wrote...

Modokun wrote...
That is absolutely fantastic, but if 25 people liked it for every 1 that didnt and was vocal about it, there would be more people that like it than who have actually played the game.

I think he meant that there are 25 who were also dissatisfied but didn't speak up.

sorry if I stuck in the clarification and it wasn't needed.

Appreciate the clarification. I should have read it more closely.

[rfrombrazil]

magica87 wrote...

I missed some pages of post, I'm sorry...it seems that numbers are giving us right...thankfully!
so...some significant news from bioware?

Nope, but nutshelling a lot, Jessica Merizan dropped by to tell us ultimately that she can't comment. They still want the feedback. Give it some more hours so bachuck can update the OP with all the relevant things that happened =)

[Wallace West]

This is the worst ****ing case of gaming blue balls in the history of the industry. Goddamnit Bioware.

[Utopianus]

mattynutz wrote...

maglor07, Leesard, Dalis918 (snip snip snip)

Thanks for your approval, guys. I don't want to come off as a D-bag, but I don't think it's fair to have to withhold criticism for fear of hurt feelings.

It was a very level-headed and well articulated response to her post, and I liked it

[Hcjung10]

mattynutz wrote...

maglor07, Leesard, Dalis918 (snip snip snip)

Thanks for your approval, guys. I don't want to come off as a D-bag, but I don't think it's fair to have to withhold criticism for fear of hurt feelings.

Your post was absolutely spot on mattynutz.

I come from Korea, and in our culture corporate reponsibility is paramount. Not that I want to make unfounded paralleles, but when you work for a company you are their spokesperson every hour of the day. If you are a community manager, that is your job description. Honestly the appeal to sympathy was a bit too much in Merizan's last post. Good fair headed criticism there mattynutz!

I just want to say, as much as it is good to keep it civil, the dicussion should remain aggressive, at least passionate. We are working for a single goal here! This is a strength we must remember. Sometimes the vouch for civility in this thread goes too far... 

You know the one! Yeah! That one! The one that takes political correctness a little too far.

Thats how I feel whenever I visit the thread after Miss Merian sprinkes sugarwater... (not that political corretness is the same thing as politeness. Gah! You know what I mean.)

[RagingCeltik]

jarrettwold wrote...

My God, I feel like I'm living the 4chan equivalent of Plato's Republic and you're Thrasymachus.

  

[Ender99]

Hey guys, I'm up and checking to see how the line is doing. Has anyone read this yet? I thought it was funny..

http://www.forbes.co...sly-at-endings/

Hold the line for as long as it takes.