9972 réponses à ce sujet

[rfrombrazil]

Wallace West wrote...

This is the worst ****ing case of gaming blue balls in the history of the industry. Goddamnit Bioware.

Nah, SEGA is trying to deliver another Sonic game for what, 10 years? Thank god they have Total War absolutely rocking to keep themselves in the spotlight. 

[Bloody_Hypocrite]

Egads, It blows my mind that the BBC is reporting on this. We asked for exposure and we definitely have it. I was a little disappointed that they failed to mention that retake is 50,000 strong, versus the 530 people in the support group.

[Turbotanden]

"People should play the game, review evidence & decide themselves "

To me that means there is evidence inside the game to review. And the only reasonable conclusions I can get from the in-game evidence is either Bioware messed up the last 20-30 minutes really badly or Indoctrination theory is true. As I have loved this game series and loved most of what Bioware has done previously I believe in the latter.

[spacefiddle]

Ukjack44 wrote...
Yet she openly disagrees with the Retake Mass Effect movement without providing a reason why. Then moans to us about saying we disagree with the ending and not saying why (even though we do). Hypocrite much?

Back up a sec, read that again.  She says she disagrees with "the goals of the retake movement;" she doesn't actually say she is 100% cool with the endings (maybe she is, but she didn't say that).

It could be she likes the endings and doesn't want them changed, or doesn't think a company should change course to suit customers.  Maybe she thinks the bar would be too low and allow frivolous future changes; tha point is, we don't know, because all she said is she disagrees with the goal and would like to talk about it later.

I'm suspicious as anyone (and more than most), but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

magica87 wrote...

I missed some pages of post, I'm sorry...it seems that numbers are giving us right...thankfully!
so...some significant news from bioware?

As I said I would not count on it for another month at least.  that is how long it will take for us to prove to Bioware that they can't wait us out so please don't give up.  I know in the age of the internet we are use to getting things right away but it takes time for a Boycott to effect a companies bottom line and for it to reach the point where they know they can't wait it out and their board and investors to put pressuer on them,please this is not going to happen over night and they are going to attack us,try to get us to fight each other,and starve us out.  Don't let it work.

If you are losing hope please look at this page.

http://en.wikipedia....entium_FDIV_bug

We are winning so please please people don't give up just because Bioware and EA are using standard PR stall tactics.  Don't touch anything for either company until they release new ending DLC that doesn't need MP to be gotten at in SP.  Thank you for holding the line.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

[Veritasiness2]

Something everyone's ignoring is that, so far, the response from the actual BioWare employees (that is, not canned PR statements) has been "we love the endings, we worked hard on them, why do you hate them?"

This means they really, legitimately do not see why we're upset. THAT means that even if we get what we want, a new ending, it's unlikely to be any good, because their heart won't be in it. If they really can't see why the endings were an issue, or how they should be changed, we can't force them to change it.

They can still do a ton of explaining and discussing they're not doing, though, and we deserve that much - so that's what I'm holding the line for

[Sentr0]

So why did this jessica posted in this thread? There are some news?

[magica87]

rfrombrazil wrote...

magica87 wrote...

I missed some pages of post, I'm sorry...it seems that numbers are giving us right...thankfully!
so...some significant news from bioware?

Nope, but nutshelling a lot, Jessica Merizan dropped by to tell us ultimately that she can't comment. They still want the feedback. Give it some more hours so bachuck can update the OP with all the relevant things that happened =)

thank you very much compliments to keep everything updated!

[Ender99]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...


As I said I would not count on it for another month at least.  that is how long it will take for us to prove to Bioware that they can't wait us out so please don't give up.  I know in the age of the internet we are use to getting things right away but it takes time for a Boycott to effect a companies bottom line and for it to reach the point where they know they can't wait it out and their board and investors to put pressuer on them,please this is not going to happen over night and they are going to attack us,try to get us to fight each other,and starve us out.  Don't let it work.

If you are losing hope please look at this page.

http://en.wikipedia....entium_FDIV_bug

We are winning so please please people don't give up just because Bioware and EA are using standard PR stall tactics.  Don't touch anything for either company until they release new ending DLC that doesn't need MP to be gotten at in SP.  Thank you for holding the line.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

This^

It's going to take time. Stay strong, don't lose hope, and hold the line for as long as it takes.

[Psythorn]

Modokun wrote...
That is absolutely fantastic, but if 25 people liked it for every 1 that didnt and was vocal about it, there would be more people that like it than who have actually played the game.

Let me break it down for you as this spanned across some posts:

I started with the question on how to translate feedback. I once read that 1 dissatisfied customer that complains represents also about 2 that are dissatisfied but do not complain. On the other hand 1 satisfied customer that speaks up represents also 10 that do not...
So looking at the biggest ending poll this would translate to 174.000 people that do not like it whereas 56.100 like it to some extend.

Then the 25 for COMPLAINING customers was brought up. So you have to revert to original numbers of the poll - not to the above my estimations.

That gives us about 1.450.000 people disliking the end. And this IS a quite a number.

But we do not now if the same 25 is true in case of satisfied customer.

Human sense would inidcate that people tend to speak up if they do not like something but not necessarily do if they are satisfied. So we do not know how to translate the numbers for "liked the end" in that poll...

Modifié par Psythorn, 21 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[Rulycar]

Veritasiness2 wrote...

Something everyone's ignoring is that, so far, the response from the actual BioWare employees (that is, not canned PR statements) has been "we love the endings, we worked hard on them, why do you hate them?"

This means they really, legitimately do not see why we're upset. THAT means that even if we get what we want, a new ending, it's unlikely to be any good, because their heart won't be in it. If they really can't see why the endings were an issue, or how they should be changed, we can't force them to change it.

They can still do a ton of explaining and discussing they're not doing, though, and we deserve that much - so that's what I'm holding the line for

That line your holding seems a wee fuzzy to my old eyes.
In fact holding that line doesn't actually require you to do anything.
You could probably hold that line in your sleep.
Still, if you want explanations there is alot available about what they were thinking and when ... may I suggest Google?

[Sentr0]

HOLD THE LINE

[Blackguard82]

Having just finished the game myself, and witnessing what can only be described as a slap in the face ending, I have to agree that something has to be done about the endings... What were they thinking making them? I believe that if they had asked the fans about possible endings, when they were developing the game, they would have gotten many great ideas... Pity really ending a trilogy like that...

[Rulycar]

Turbotanden wrote...

"People should play the game, review evidence & decide themselves :)"

To me that means there is evidence inside the game to review. And the only reasonable conclusions I can get from the in-game evidence is either Bioware messed up the last 20-30 minutes really badly or Indoctrination theory is true. As I have loved this game series and loved most of what Bioware has done previously I believe in the latter.

The biggest problem I have with indoctrination ...
... if fans can edit together "proof" of indoctrination
... then BioWare could have as well.
Guess what?
... they didn't.

"... grasping at emergency induction ports ..." --someone

[spacefiddle]

jarrettwold wrote...
My God, I feel like I'm living the 4chan equivalent of Plato's Republic and you're Thrasymachus.

An educated troll with an excellent vocabulary is still a troll.  You are still doing what you accuse others of doing.  If you were really interested in debating facts, you'd leave out the monocled insults, and all the loaded language designed to paint yourself as Intellecually Superior And Therefore Right.

I could go on for many paragraphs analyzing what you're doing, too... oh, wait.  That's right, I did.  Before the post you responded to.  Funny how you ignored it, innit?

[Psythorn]

Rulycar wrote...
That line your holding seems a wee fuzzy to my old eyes.
In fact holding that line doesn't actually require you to do anything.
You could probably hold that line in your sleep.
Still, if you want explanations there is alot available about what they were thinking and when ... may I suggest Google?

Trying to heat us up you do. Not successfully you will be.
Some of us are rather active in holding that line. Posting, voting, complaining, discussing, writing reviews and not giving in.
So not lazy we are.

Ah ... Getting late I think...

Modifié par Psythorn, 21 mars 2012 - 01:57 .

[N7Kopper]

Psythorn wrote...

Modokun wrote...
That is absolutely fantastic, but if 25 people liked it for every 1 that didnt and was vocal about it, there would be more people that like it than who have actually played the game.

Let me break it down for you as this spanned across some posts:

I started with the question on how to translate feedback. I once read that 1 dissatisfied customer that complains represents also about 2 that are dissatisfied but do not complain. On the other hand 1 satisfied customer that speaks up represents also 10 that do not...
So looking at the biggest ending poll this would translate to 174.000 people that do not like it whereas 56.100 like it to some extend.

Then the 25 for COMPLAINING customers was brought up. So you have to revert to original numbers of the poll - not to the above my estimations.

That gives us about 1.450.000 people disliking the end. And this IS a quite a number.

But we do not now if the same 25 is true in case of satisfied customer.

Human sense would inidcate that people tend to speak up if they do not like something but not necessarily do if they are satisfied. So we do not know how to translate the numbers for "liked the end" in that poll...

May not even be a needed comparison.
Even if the majority of people did like these endings (which I'm sure they don't) a significant minority may hate them still - significant enough to need additions.
Grab the line with both hands, and refrain from making phallic gestures.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Ender99 wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...


As I said I would not count on it for another month at least.  that is how long it will take for us to prove to Bioware that they can't wait us out so please don't give up.  I know in the age of the internet we are use to getting things right away but it takes time for a Boycott to effect a companies bottom line and for it to reach the point where they know they can't wait it out and their board and investors to put pressuer on them,please this is not going to happen over night and they are going to attack us,try to get us to fight each other,and starve us out.  Don't let it work.

If you are losing hope please look at this page.

http://en.wikipedia....entium_FDIV_bug

We are winning so please please people don't give up just because Bioware and EA are using standard PR stall tactics.  Don't touch anything for either company until they release new ending DLC that doesn't need MP to be gotten at in SP.  Thank you for holding the line.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

This^

It's going to take time. Stay strong, don't lose hope, and hold the line for as long as it takes.

Thank you!  I sure hope other people here understand this.  i know we are use to getting things right away in the internet age but this is something that will take time.  If you think this is lasting long please think of all the years I am other Doctor Who fans spent trying to get the BBC to bring our favorite show back. This is nothing compared to that and we won in the end.  As long as we don't give up no matter how long it takes or what bioware says we will win.  Please remember that they have no problem with lying to us so even if they announce New endings DLC that may just be another stall tactic,we have to keep this up until the DLcC is released.  Thank you for holding the line until then.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

[Veritasiness2]

Rulycar wrote...

Veritasiness2 wrote...

<snip for space>

That line your holding seems a wee fuzzy to my old eyes.
In fact holding that line doesn't actually require you to do anything.
You could probably hold that line in your sleep.
Still, if you want explanations there is alot available about what they were thinking and when ... may I suggest Google?

I think you misunderstand: I'm not holding out for an "oh, it was indoctrination." I want "This is why we wrote it this way, this is how it's supposed to work, this is why we thought it was fulfilling" - I want to understand the process behind the ending and how it came to be, I want to know if this was the original intended ending or not (and why it was changed if it isn't), and more importantly (if I'm to buy more Bioware games) an explanation of how I can reasonably expect something like this isn't going to happen again in Dragon Age 3, or whatever new product Bioware comes out with. To put it simply, I don't want an explanation of the ending from a STORY perspective - I'm honestly past caring; it's ruined my Mass Effect experience and I'd prefer not to dwell on that. I want it from a development perspective.

I don't see how that line (as opposed to "we want a new ending") is going to be any easier to hold, considering everything. And clearly I'm putting effort in - I've posted here for my first (well, third counting all my posts including this one) time just to discuss it.

Modifié par Veritasiness2, 21 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[Nurane]

Veritasiness2 wrote...

Something everyone's ignoring is that, so far, the response from the actual BioWare employees (that is, not canned PR statements) has been "we love the endings, we worked hard on them, why do you hate them?"

This means they really, legitimately do not see why we're upset. THAT means that even if we get what we want, a new ending, it's unlikely to be any good, because their heart won't be in it. If they really can't see why the endings were an issue, or how they should be changed, we can't force them to change it.

They can still do a ton of explaining and discussing they're not doing, though, and we deserve that much - so that's what I'm holding the line for

If they really, legitimately do not see why we're upset, then it would seem that they also do not interact with the customers through mediums such as this forum. There have been several well thought out and detailed reviews about why the endings should not have been what they currently are, and many get bumped to the first or second pages of the forums daily.

Further, if they don't either produce either acceptable (whatever that is to each of us) endings or explaination, then their blindness will cause them to lose business.

Personally, I'm starting to conclude that Bioware has been riding the tide of customer goodwill for too long and has, like various once-popular movements, lost sight of the fact that their profits/power/etc isn't a cosmically ordained right.

[spacefiddle]

Ender99 wrote...

Hey guys, I'm up and checking to see how the line is doing. Has anyone read this yet? I thought it was funny..

http://www.forbes.co...sly-at-endings/

Hold the line for as long as it takes.

That's not funny, that's excellent.  More than "we're going to make an ending everyone likes," the commitment to "being more transparent about the game's development" is 100% what I wanted to hear.  The major problem with ME3 was the shock of it all; the contrast between the Flying Car on the box and the Walking Halibut inside the box.  I mean, OK, that's interesting too, but wtf?  Where's my flying car?

[Veritasiness2]

Nurane wrote...

Veritasiness2 wrote...
<snip again>

If they really, legitimately do not see why we're upset, then it would seem that they also do not interact with the customers through mediums such as this forum. There have been several well thought out and detailed reviews about why the endings should not have been what they currently are, and many get bumped to the first or second pages of the forums daily.

Further, if they don't either produce either acceptable (whatever that is to each of us) endings or explaination, then their blindness will cause them to lose business.

Personally, I'm starting to conclude that Bioware has been riding the tide of customer goodwill for too long and has, like various once-popular movements, lost sight of the fact that their profits/power/etc isn't a cosmically ordained right.

Never underestimate the ability of a creator to become blinded by love for his creation. Bioware has invested a ton of time and money in Mass Effect, I think it's totally understandable that they'd be less than inclined to accept that their endings are anything less than what they were envisioned as being. In other words, I think all the rehetoric from Casey Hudson and so forth about the goodness of the endings is not PR - it's genuine. That's the biggest problem. They do interact here, and that's more than most companies would ever do, but it's not really enough in this instance.

I agree with you on your two latter points - absolutely I agree. I'm not buying any more games from them unless I'm very statisfied with what I hear over the coming months - and I think Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR were early warning signs of their changing perspective... we'll see, though.

[RagingCeltik]

Blackguard82 wrote...

Having just finished the game myself, and witnessing what can only be described as a slap in the face ending, I have to agree that something has to be done about the endings... What were they thinking making them? I believe that if they had asked the fans about possible endings, when they were developing the game, they would have gotten many great ideas... Pity really ending a trilogy like that...

It really isn't our place to give them ideas on how to end it.   That's why they hire writers.    I think one of two things happened: either the indoctrination theory is true in a sense and we haven't seen the real ending yet as they're blowing smoke all over.  

Or.

The heads of development and/or writing had an idea that they thought would be frackin' awesome and went ahead and did it without any real testing or input on the idea.   Because I just cannot imagine anyone during development did not raise their hand and say, "Why does this ending remind me of a donkey show?  I mean, I'm wathcing this but it feels like my soul is tainted."

Modifié par RagingCeltik, 21 mars 2012 - 02:10 .

[Dane Seagal]

Holding the line!

Because this

Modifié par Dane Seagal, 21 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Tirranek]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

mattynutz wrote...

Awesome stuff

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Blah Blah, don't pick things apart

Totally agree. Sick of being told how we should behave to live up to THEIR expectations.

It was a request, at most. And 'their' expectations are shared by more than just people at Bioware. Behaviour like that is the main reason I have no desire, at all, to be a part of this group.