9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Danilo Luis]

@Jessica Merizan
I have but one question for you. As a fan of the series, did you enjoy the ending?
This is just what bugs me, to be honest, because I really mean it when I say that ME 3 ending didn't juts screw my experience with this franchise, but video gaming in overall. And this is a shared feeling. Never before I took the job of actually engage in this kind of discussion. NEVER. But I had never spent over 1500 dollars on a product, like I did in ME 3 (I bought a new pc just to play it).

It's not a matter of opinion anymore, and you are lying when you say it is. The ending ARE bad, despite the fact of the bad writing, they didn't follow the narrative course that we expected for ME. There is an unnecessary shift right before the final scene that it's clearly a huge mistake.

I can't believe that, coming from people who actually are professionals, they can keep talking about this issue as if thinking that the ending are bad it's a matter of opinion. No, it's not. People who actually enjoy it, at least here in the community, are those who actually don't spent enough time thinking about it, or don't know the lore that well. Take a look at their posts. They don't even try to defend their point of veil.

You guys from Bioware are liars! You made promises that you just didn't accomplished. Unfortunately, I live in Brazil. $60 bucks it's a huge amount of money for me. And what to say about the other $1400 I spent with a new computer? The moment I finished ME 2 I start to save money for a new PC. I preorded this crap game via origin. And I'm all but satisfied. I can't help myself but stay in this forum every single minute I'm off work. And, believe me, I'm not a sick mental bastard, or stupid, or anything (yeah, my English sucks, but it's not even my first language!).

Puff. I can't "remain civil", and I bet a lot of us that are as frustrated as I am can't either. This has gone far enough.

(P.S: when I say "Unfortunately, I live in Brazil" it's not because I don't like my country. I love it! The problem is, since I live here the only way to play ME3 in the release date is by preording it via Origin. And there is no way I can turn it back. Or else... I don't want this game anymore. Not at all.)

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

N7_Sniper91 wrote...

Don't let up, people.

We don't stop until WE'RE satisfied. Not them.

Don't just accept every piece of "info" they throw at us, just because you think that they'll keep their word. They already violated our trust, don't give them an opportunity to do it again!

Until we get what was promised before this whole mess, we keep getting on their back until they have no choice but to give in.

Our Choices DO Matter - Hold The Line.

Yes thank you.  Good to see so many people are too smart to fall for this.  They lied to us before let them know that theycan only get our trust back with actions.

Please do not fall for this.  Don't let up and don't touch a bioware or EA product until the new ending is released.  Don't fall for the oldest PR trick in the book.  Keep it up this prooves we are winning and that they need us back but this is just PR double talk.  They are trying to trick us because we are having a huge impact and if we give up just because they are not talking or before they release the new endings DLCs we will fail.  Don't let that happen,please don't.
Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

[The5Virtues]

Reading his statement does nothing to reaffirm my faith in the company. When you cut away the PR fluff terminology it really just sounds like he's saying "We'll try and pave over a few plot holes so the finish line doesn't tear up your suspension (of belief) quite as much as it did the first time."

Realistically I know they're not going to go an redo the entire ending sequence, they just won't go that far, I'm 100% certain of that... But that's the only thing I can think of to actually fix the issues with the game's story. The failures through out the game itself, however, are easy to over look thanks to the enjoyable gameplay. The endings cannot be overlooked. You can slap some glue on the cracks and hope that fixes things. The conclusion makes no sense at all, it lacks cohesion and even logic, no amount of "closure" can fix that.

At this point I'd really like to just hear a "We're sorry we disappointed so many of you, we'll try harder in the future" because I can't think of any patch to the game that would make it better.

[LilyasAvalon]

Okay, regardless of how ANYONE feels about the endings, you cannot DENY that had to be the POOREST CHOICE OF WORDS EVER.

I understand it was trying to build sympathy and make Bioware appear to be the victim, but... that's just not a smart, not a smart move at all.

Nice to get some clarification though, for what it's worth.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 21 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[cApAc aMaRu]

jarrettwold wrote...

Craven1138 wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Revolting piece of arrogance.

No, it's not.  

"I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism."

"but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility."

In no way is that arrogant.

Team before fans/customers.
Begrudgingly accepting complaints only due to volume.
Hard for them to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they had their player control and ownership taken away.
Timely, like before launch?
Bioware is a label now... sigh
The future is sounding more and more like EA trying to milk the franchise for all its worth... could have sworn I signed up for a trilogy with a beginning, middle and end.
Criticism of customers for being angry when they didn't get what they paid for.
Again: tell your friends all the positives! Get that word of mouth working for us to sell more copies!
Trust and appreciation as after thoughts.

PR at its finest.

Modifié par cApAc aMaRu, 21 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Tzupi88]

Menalaos1971 wrote...

I'm actually OK with a lot of what Dr. Muzyka said. He doesn't call us a minority, or make disparaging comments about us. He recognizes that we are the passionate, loyal Bioware and Mass Effect fans.

It also sounds like they are working on something that they'll announce in April. Sounds like just an Epilogue Patch. It's a start at least.

But, he talks a lot about the artistic vision and integrity and passion of his team, too, so sounds like they're still in the "It's our ending and that's all you get" phase of their PR campaign.

He DOES call us a minority. "some of our loyal fans"

Plus the entire thing says nothing besides telling us to expect more info in April. The PR BS to actual content ratio is through the roof.

[mattynutz]

One thing I'd like to address is this; (and I don't think that any of the BW people we've been speaking to really comprehend this)

Even the most vitriolic idiotic hateful poster on these forums, perhaps especially the most vitriolic idiotic hateful poster on these forums, is doing something they that they rarely do. They are putting a vast amount of hope and faith into Bioware as content producers. If they weren't, they wouldn't bother with these forums, or any other. Like with the dominoes analogy, they'd just call Pappa John's next time. Instead, though, they are giving BW and it's staff a rarely seen amount of leeway. By taking part in these forums, they're saying "I really really really want you, Bioware, to prove to me that your product is worth my time and money." Even if they're saying it crassly or cruelly or harshly, that is ultimately what they are saying. It irks me a bit that so many, especially BW staffers, are willing to just toss people's opinions aside because they aren't presented in a manner that they find aesthetically pleasing. From a certain perspective, those people are the ones doing their damndest to not just delete their saves, cancel their BSN profile, and return or resell their games back to wherever they purchased them from and never give BW another thought. BW should value that. But I'm not seeing evidence that they do. I'm seeing that they'd rather this all go away so that they can get back to milking multiplayer and selling us DLC that most of us will find somewhat pointless to play, and insisting that the ending of ME3 isn't near plagarism of the ending to ALL THREE DX games.

They can do better than that. They absolutely and most certainly can.

[DannieCraft]

 Dr. Ray Muzyka, co founder of BioWare adresses the fans on the bioware blog:

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

[JustinS1985]

To me it sounds like it's more of the same, just trying to play a waiting game. They pretty much still say everyone loves out game, but a few people are a little disappointed in the ending. We have big plans, just wait and we'll tell you what they are. To me this smacked of "calm down you're hurting our sales" not "we messed up, we'll fix it".

[wolfeye7]

Having read Ray Muzyka's post on the Bioware blog I'm not quite sure what to think.

I get where he is coming from and I see his point of view. I even understand the need to show off the good sides of Mass Effect 3, such as "a review average in the mid-90s". I mean, it WAS a good game until the ending.

But again, the ending did not do the game any justice. The issues mentioned in the blog are not the ones we have with the game. We asked to fix the plotholes, make our decisions in the game matter, give us more varied endings (ones that make sense). Yet we received nothing on that end.

And again the "artistic integrity" argument. For one, games are consumer art. Second, the ending doesn't stay true to the game itself and such, the ending at least, can not be seen as "art".

Regardless...I will continue to support this movement until things change.

EDIT: spelling

Modifié par wolfeye7, 21 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[RevenantWolf]

DannieCraft wrote...

 Dr. Ray Muzyka, co founder of BioWare adresses the fans on the bioware blog:

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

What do you think we have been discussing the last 3 pages?

[Danilo Luis]

and from someone who works at a contemporary art museum, Video Games ARE FAR FROM BEING A FORM OF ART. This is more stupid than anything else people are saying to defend the ending.

[Lugaidster]

TurambarEA wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

This worries me. I've heard it over and again from them: "we're listening" - so what I really just want is for someone to acknowledge what exactly our problems are with the ending. 'Closure' and 'explanation' is on the list for a lot of people but for a hellova lot of others (I'd wager most of the unhappy people), a bit of explanation and a set of epilogue text stills isn't going to make up for the fact that the relay network has blown up (killing everyone) or that most of the galaxy is stuck in the Sol system, or that the endings are all so damn similar and MOST importantly, that your choices are rendered meaningless by the ending.

Plus with this 'we're happy with what we did' that we've heard a number of times, it makes a different set of endings sans RGC and all that nonsense incredibly unlikely. Honestly, indoctrination theory is the only way I can see them writing their way out of this.

I'm just hoping against hope, that A) they ARE listening and realise that the endings problems aren't as simple as 'closure' and the option they go with in dealing with the endings isn't to mainly keep them as is.

Dude, we can't even decide between ourselves what the problems with the endings are. The fact that he said they are going to address the endings issue is a small step towards our goal (whatever that is). 

There's one thing clear in all of this (at least to me). They won't address every issue everyone has, because there are far too many. Some fans will undoubtedly be unhappy with the answer they come up with at the end. Hell some want the whole thing changed, and if they do, then those who liked it might complain. So yeah, not everyone will be happy, I just hope some of us will. 

If you are expecting that they come out and say, right now, what every complain is, you're being silly and arrogant. From the many fans right now that are part of the movement, the only thing clear is that the ending is bad, for many reasons, but that's about it. What you expect from it is not what I expect from it. Some want happy, others don't. Some want closure, others simply hate the kid.

Stay civil, be patient and hold the line.

[cebo7590]

ok here is my question. who the hell beta tested this beast and why did they not tell them there endings had so many plot holes and Dues Ex?

I mean really? Is it THAT shocking they recieved this ending?

[1490]

Guys: looks like the movement is REALLY starting to pressure Bioware.  Dr. Ray Muzyka just posted a blog that addresses the fans.

blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

EDIT: well, looks like I was a little late on that news, lol

Modifié par 1490, 21 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[cApAc aMaRu]

Lugaidster wrote...

TurambarEA wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

This worries me. I've heard it over and again from them: "we're listening" - so what I really just want is for someone to acknowledge what exactly our problems are with the ending. 'Closure' and 'explanation' is on the list for a lot of people but for a hellova lot of others (I'd wager most of the unhappy people), a bit of explanation and a set of epilogue text stills isn't going to make up for the fact that the relay network has blown up (killing everyone) or that most of the galaxy is stuck in the Sol system, or that the endings are all so damn similar and MOST importantly, that your choices are rendered meaningless by the ending.

Plus with this 'we're happy with what we did' that we've heard a number of times, it makes a different set of endings sans RGC and all that nonsense incredibly unlikely. Honestly, indoctrination theory is the only way I can see them writing their way out of this.

I'm just hoping against hope, that A) they ARE listening and realise that the endings problems aren't as simple as 'closure' and the option they go with in dealing with the endings isn't to mainly keep them as is.

Dude, we can't even decide between ourselves what the problems with the endings are. The fact that he said they are going to address the endings issue is a small step towards our goal (whatever that is). 

There's one thing clear in all of this (at least to me). They won't address every issue everyone has, because there are far too many. Some fans will undoubtedly be unhappy with the answer they come up with at the end. Hell some want the whole thing changed, and if they do, then those who liked it might complain. So yeah, not everyone will be happy, I just hope some of us will. 

If you are expecting that they come out and say, right now, what every complain is, you're being silly and arrogant. From the many fans right now that are part of the movement, the only thing clear is that the ending is bad, for many reasons, but that's about it. What you expect from it is not what I expect from it. Some want happy, others don't. Some want closure, others simply hate the kid.

Stay civil, be patient and hold the line.

I think the overwhelming thrust of demands is summed up in one word. Choice.

[Goroxx]

Speaking of PR moves, I think Dr. Muzyka's response is a fairly good one. He admits they were blindsided by the reaction, and he doesn't attempt to sideline critics with the "vocal minority" line; instead he recognizes that we are their "core fans" - a major distinction.

I am disappointed that on several occasions he bases his views on the reaction by the professional gaming press & critics. Of course, a AAA title like ME3 was going to garner positive reviews. This whole episode has been eye-opening for me in that it is becoming clear that many of the professional game critics are at best incompetent reviewers, at worst bought-and-paid for (and attack dogs for the publisher when it suits them).

All in all, I'm pleased with Dr. Muzyka's response. Core fans spend money - on DLC, on merchandise, on future franchise games. Angry "vocal minorities" don't. Core fans aren't upset because we hate the game - we're upset because we love it (and all the prior work BioWare has done).

I agree with him in that they have every right to not listen to hateful, destructive criticism. I'm so proud of the Retake movement, because in this thread and everywhere else, we strive to keep it passionate, yet civil and respectful.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Danilo Luis wrote...

@Jessica Merizan
I have but one question for you. As a fan of the series, did you enjoy the ending?
This is just what bugs me, to be honest, because I really mean it when I say that ME 3 ending didn't juts screw my experience with this franchise, but video gaming in overall. And this is a shared feeling. Never before I took the job of actually engage in this kind of discussion. NEVER. But I had never spent over 1500 dollars on a product, like I did in ME 3 (I bought a new pc just to play it).

It's not a matter of opinion anymore, and you are lying when you say it is. The ending ARE bad, despite the fact of the bad writing, they didn't follow the narrative course that we expected for ME. There is an unnecessary shift right before the final scene that it's clearly a huge mistake.

I can't believe that, coming from people who actually are professionals, they can keep talking about this issue as if thinking that the ending are bad it's a matter of opinion. No, it's not. People who actually enjoy it, at least here in the community, are those who actually don't spent enough time thinking about it, or don't know the lore that well. Take a look at their posts. They don't even try to defend their point of veil.

You guys from Bioware are liars! You made promises that you just didn't accomplished. Unfortunately, I live in Brazil. $60 bucks it's a huge amount of money for me. And what to say about the other $1400 I spent with a new computer? The moment I finished ME 2 I start to save money for a new PC. I preorded this crap game via origin. And I'm all but satisfied. I can't help myself but stay in this forum every single minute I'm off work. And, believe me, I'm not a sick mental bastard, or stupid, or anything (yeah, my English sucks, but it's not even my first language!).

Puff. I can't "remain civil", and I bet a lot of us that are as frustrated as I am can't either. This has gone far enough.

(P.S: when I say "Unfortunately, I live in Brazil" it's not because I don't like my country. I love it! The problem is, since I live here the only way to play ME3 in the release date is by preording it via Origin. And there is no way I can turn it back. Or else... I don't want this game anymore. Not at all.)

Well said!  If they had said those things before the ending was choosen I would understand but they said them after they had choosen the ending.  That tells me they do not believe their own spin,they knew the ending was bad and the only way to sell it was to lie.  let's not forget they are still lying about not needing MP to get all Sp endings.  they are liars so don't believe what they say.  Don't touch any EA or Bioware products until they have earned our trust back by releasing a patch that makes it so you don't need MP for Sp endings and have RELEASED New endings DLCs.  Hold the line until they have made up for their lies.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7102/

Thank you for your time.

[DrkCntry]

That's a smart thing to do, call for tolerance and understanding while simultaneously telling Bioware you all want information only to get some and immediately hate on every aspect of it.

I understand and agree that the endings are very lackluster and not fitting for the caliber we've come to expect of the series, but I also recognize that my view of the game is in no way superior to that of anyone else's, including those that are fine with the endings.

There is nothing like completely sabotaging your stances when you all cannot get on the same page and understand simple realities. Bioware and EA are businesses and they are not a couple of guys putting together indie projects in their garages, dissemination of information to the public with companies this large is never going to be immediate and will never outright explain things in a manner that the Average Joe will like simply because of how businesses are, and must be, ran.

If ANY of this movement (which is horribly named mind you) actually believes the statement of it, then you will acknowledge that Bioware and EA are attempting to mend the damage and are trying to move forward with solutions. You also have to acknowledge that even if Bioware does release an ending that it may NEVER satisfy you completely.

[Demarco09]

Star58 wrote...

And I love the way the last sentence asking us to trust them. Do they not understand that trust isn't gained with words but actions that demonstrate that they are trustworthy? *snorts*

They lost a lot of trust from the fans.... they are going to have one hell of a time earning it back.  A shame that it came to this really.  I really just don't like the flaming of the fanbase that is going on.  The fanbase makes a company and it can break a company as well.  I like BioWare and always have.  Cut ties with EA and go back to being the BioWare everyone used to love.  I miss my BioWare that made DAO 

[Craven1138]

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Basically it seems he told us to go **** ourselves, because they'll only explain endings for us idiots, who didn't get how fantastic it is.

For me if this is supposed to be damage control, then I dare to say it's counter-effective.
This is the worst, the most insulting BioWare move since whole controversy started.

[QwibQwib]

Seriously people, stop being so rude. You gain NOTHING from bad mouthing anyone.

[Razorsteel]

More PR speak like some people have stated, don't be duped.
This will take a while, have some patience.

Our choices should matter- Hold The Line

Modifié par Razorsteel, 21 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[Jamie9]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

I think the overwhelming thrust of demands is summed up in one word. Choice.

Indeed. Choice is something that I have seen everyone agree on. They just want actual choice, not one ending.

Our choices should matter - Hold the Line

[alopexian]

Brakxel wrote...
A part of me was hoping this was just a stunt. I would be very angry, but at least I would know there are still good writers at Bioware and they had a plan. Now it just shows how far off Bioware is from their fans and own story. The ending isn't bad from being rushed, or some larger plan. It is bad because they designed it that way--and thought it was good the whole time.

I'm stunned.

Agreed. The indoctrination theory doesn't really seem to hold water anymore. This ending was the ending they wanted and they didn't see our reaction coming. And boy is that depressing!

For me it would mean a lot if they at least acknowledged the problems of the current ending. That would be the first step towards reconciliation between the disappointed gamers and Bioware. As long as the fundamental issue isn't named and noted, there can't be real discussion between the company & creators and the gamers.

But even if the replies thus far have been disappointing, please refrain from using harsh tones and language. That'll just make it harder for them to admit there might be some problems. We have to win them with love. Let's hold on to what we want, but be friendly. The gap ought not be made larger by us.