9972 réponses à ce sujet

[lanep25]

Leland Gaunt wrote...

Okay, THAT is really making me think. A few hours I finished the game I came up with those kind of thoughts myself (mostly because of that nicely worded invitiation to buy future DLC after finishing), but I threw them away. This statement on the other hand seems to confirm my worst suspicions of how EA is going to handle things with ME3. That really ticks me off, I mean he's saying point blank: "Get people comitted/addicted and then charge them for every future dosage." Sounds like drug business to me...

Any addictive business actually. Drugs, sex/pornography, gambling, and now video games.

[punkenjunki3]

Lugaidster wrote...

If for one second you put yourself in the shoes of someone that has worked into his own project for several years, you might begin to realize that, sometimes, you are too close to the problem to be able to see it. I really believe that they didn't predict this outrage would come, why would they put themselves, knowingly, in a situation like this? You've got to be kidding me...

Good point, i guess thats just the value of hindsight. I sincerely hope, like yourself they wouldnt have done this knowingly. Heres hoping thats the case anyway, I can forgive mistakes within reason because we all make them but....I dont know about this, i dont know whether to be upset at the loss of closure of a brilliant story or amazed at the reaction this one game has provoked from me, to feel so conflicted...mostly a heady mixture of dissapointment, sadness and confusion. Im an avid gamer gamer but as I say never this amount of reaction over one game.. But im not sure its the right one!

[Lugaidster]

InsaneNarwhal wrote...

I've been following every page of this thread since it started, and I'm ashamed to say I read more negatively slanted responses since I left last night than I did positive ones.

I completely agree. Even if I've been angrily responding to some, thus pouring fire to the flame. 

[bluespart]

My personal analysis of that blog post, 1 paragraph at a time.

[1] Basically pulling what I'd call an [g]authority position[/g] on us. Trying to diminish us by saying "I'm one of the person in charge and I think you're wrong!" and quick to remind us of the "high ratings by the critics".

[2] Here we have the [g]Games are art[/g] defense. We've heard it before, we've all had our gripes with it and found good arguments against it. The last sentence sound like this to me: "If we do something, it'll be in our way and you will have little to say about it."

[3] Not much to say (at least from me) about that one. We all played Mass Effect but we all felt something different, therefore all expected something different. We apparently DID surprise them with our reaction. We also get the good ol' smoke screen "We are listening and working on something."

[4] We are listening. Enough said.

[5] We are being told to watch out for April. This might be an attempt to get us to calm down. We better not. But one thing infuriates me: He tells us the team is hard at work on [g]several[/g] to help "[Provide] more clarity". Keep up fighting everybody, 'cause it seems they don't want to give us exactly what we want.

[6] Again, telling us how much critics loved the game and how "Some" people are not satisfied on the lack of closure brought by the ending. I don't even want to expand on this. We have all seen it before.

[7] So apparently we are not doing the right thing now. They sure are feeling that pressure, aren't they? And the part about attacking individual employees: Didn't we all agree on not doing it? That kind of makes it all pointless.

[8] They are talking about trust, but trusting them has brought us to this. Thay want us to "Tell our friends about the game if we find it good", but why would I do that if I feel disatisfied? And again, he pressures on that they are listening.

Here's my two cents, for what it's worth. Hope I wasn't too far from the thruth.

[cApAc aMaRu]

Diminishing is a good word. It describes a lot of what's been going on.

[Sentr0]

DrkCntry wrote...

 

Lugaidster wrote...

That number thing works both ways. Just because "only" 50000 people are vocal doesn't mean that the rest like it. We are not a tiny minority just as we are not a big majority. Both arguments are stupid and help no one. Go learn some sociology if you want to discuss it.

 

Really?  Trying to 'school' me on something that doesn't even exist?  I wasn't arguing against the statement as a support for the 'other side', but as a point of factual statement that whatever arbitrary number on an Internet 'poll' that is far smaller than the total number of sales is, again factually, considered a minority.

So before you attempt to tell someone to 'go learn' something, it might be a wise choice to understand what that person is stating, else you come off as a rather foolish looking person...and one that I'm pretty sure isn't helping anything.

Sentr0 wrote...

Do you have any numer of people who liked the ending? We have 60k and more, you? Nothing? Then we are the majority so far

You cannot prove that those '60k and more' are unique individuals any more than I could poll the entirety of the population that purchased Mass Effect 3.  It's antedoctal evidence at best.  The point is, unless you can poll the entirety of the population that purchased the title, you cannot state you're a majority and can only rely on whatever numbers you CAN put forward against the total numbers involved...in this case, it's a minority count.

You dont get the point, i have proven that 50k only here on BSN hated the ending and many more around the world. If you want to say otherwise you have to bring proof of that. even by polling the all the population that purchased the title

PS: u cant even say we're a minority, since we share a point of view and many others may be things like us

[Elios]

cebo7590 wrote...

ok here is my question. who the hell beta tested this beast and why did they not tell them there endings had so many plot holes and Dues Ex?

I mean really? Is it THAT shocking they recieved this ending?

that is not there jobs they tend to play ONE part of a game OVER AND OVER AN OVER AND OVER looking for bugs
now the face inport mess how THAT got past the testing is a big '?'

[wepeel_]

BuddhaGeek wrote...

 I posted this in another thread, but I figured it should go here as well

This was a video of John Riccitiello, the CEO of EA talking about microtransations in a stockholders meeting a few months ago:


youtu.be/ZR6-u8OIJTE 

A couple of quotes from this video stood out to me, given everything that has happened with Retake Mass Effect and the general outrage/fear/anxiety regarding being charged for the "real" ending:

"When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price-sensitive at this point in time"

"A consumer gets engaged in a property, they might spend 10, 20, 30, 50 hours on the game and then when they're deep into the game they're well-invested in it. We're not gouging, but we're charging and at that point in time the commitment can be pretty high"


In light of everything that has been happening, I almost find myself at a loss for words... It's hard to defend all the PR and ambiguous talk about "speculation" and dealing with all this tension when you hear EA's CEO saying things like this...

That really sounds like unadulterated greed, on steroids. And it's more than a little bit disgusting to consider that that's the kind of guy who wields tremendous power in this - the kind of guy who is ultimately in charge of major content decisions in a whole lot of games. Against that kind of background, how much doubt can one reasonably have that decisions on launch-day DLC and so forth are 100% corporate greed?

[Liraelx]

I had an idea to start a thread where people can share the endings as they would've liked to see them (as in, fully written out with dialogue options, actions etc.), to show what we want in a way that's not simply demanding bioware write a better one for us. Would this improve our stance if we show we're just as happy to put some work in to it as we'd like Bioware to be?

[Elios]

1490 wrote...

Guys: looks like the movement is REALLY starting to pressure Bioware.  Dr. Ray Muzyka just posted a blog that addresses the fans.

blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

EDIT: well, looks like I was a little late on that news, lol

like how they turned comments off cant have people seeing its not just "some" fans but most fans

[humes spork]

DrkCntry wrote...

You cannot prove that those '60k and more' are unique individuals any more than I could poll the entirety of the population that purchased Mass Effect 3.  It's antedoctal evidence at best.  The point is, unless you can poll the entirety of the population that purchased the title, you cannot state you're a majority and can only rely on whatever numbers you CAN put forward against the total numbers involved...in this case, it's a minority count.

Actually, no you don't. I made the commentary about a hundred or so pages back that even accounting for selection and response biases, that poll can be considered representative enough that it cannot be discarded completely out of hand. Based on a population of 2.4M, you'd only need 1067 responses for a scientifically valid result (that is to say, a CL of 95% and a CI of 3) in a proper poll.

Though, to weigh in my personal opinion, I think that for the media and journalistic response (post-release commentary and editorial) at the very least you can say folks who are dissatisfied with the ending are a clear plurality.

[DrkCntry]

Sentr0 wrote...

You dont get the point, i have proven that 50k only here on BSN hated the ending and many more around the world. If you want to say otherwise you have to bring proof of that. even by polling the all the population that purchased the title

PS: u cant even say we're a minority, since we share a point of view and many others may be things like us

50k here on BSN is not a valid sample size, considering there's bias one, and that there's no guarantee that those sampled are unique applicants.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

And yes, I CAN say we're a minority simply because our numbers are FAR SMALLER than the overall numbers of units sold.

[Volion]

This thread really moves, trying to catch up on everything since last night.

If the OP would be so kind as to post the summary's to Hold The Line it would be appreciated.

Modifié par Volion, 21 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Lupus Canivus]

Empty words that is all the article is.

Hold the line!

[Xivai]

Wondering what atghunter will think about these developments.

[Wowlock]

''If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. ''

That explains the need for this article really. They saw the hit and bad-word of the mouth results and now they try to provoke us to turn it around.

Well sorry to disappoint Dr. Until we see some solid content, I will not waste anymore money or let my friends to feel the same pain ,I've felt.

I will think about it when I SEE this ''special content''

Personally, after this point, adding some texts to the current endings won't do anygood to anyone. If they try to explain the plot holes instead of fixing them....well I think it will only get worse. Lets hope ''protecting their artistic vision'' will not overcome their business sense.

And quite frankly, I will wait for others to play and review it first since this will probably for some extra Cash and I won't waste money again without knowing what I am getting into...

Modifié par Wowlock, 21 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[Mayple]

DrkCntry wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

You dont get the point, i have proven that 50k only here on BSN hated the ending and many more around the world. If you want to say otherwise you have to bring proof of that. even by polling the all the population that purchased the title

PS: u cant even say we're a minority, since we share a point of view and many others may be things like us

50k here on BSN is not a valid sample size, considering there's bias one, and that there's no guarantee that those sampled are unique applicants.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

And yes, I CAN say we're a minority simply because our numbers are FAR SMALLER than the overall numbers of units sold.

You can't come to a conclusion one way or the other. Just because someone bought the game and hasn't come to the forums to complain about the ending doesn't mean they automatically like the ending and are ok with it. Same way as citing a poll on the bioware forums and saying that is a sufficient sample for the whole population.

We may think we are the majority because we tend to flock toward new sites and articles that support our general opinion giving us the illusion that we are the vast majority. Whether or not that is true is something that we can not give a conclusion on.

[Lugaidster]

DrkCntry wrote...

Really?  Trying to 'school' me on something that doesn't even exist?

I'm sorry, what? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology 

DrkCntry wrote... 

 I wasn't arguing against the statement as a support for the 'other side', but as a point of factual statement that whatever arbitrary number on an Internet 'poll' that is far smaller than the total number of sales is, again factually, considered a minority.
 

 

If that's the case, then your wording was poor at best. Let's see:

DrkCntry wrote...  

I'm sorry, 50k people, while a fairly nice size section, is still a TINY MINORITY to 2.4 million sales in the first week... 

 

Fifty thousand people is not a tiny minority of anything nor a majority either. You are establishing a relation between data-points that aren't directly related, given context. Those sales don't translate into anything in this movement as of right now so it serves no purpose to bring them to discussion. If you intended to state that, you frased it very poorly.

DrkCntry wrote...   

So before you attempt to tell someone to 'go learn' something, it might be a wise choice to understand what that person is stating, else you come off as a rather foolish looking person...and one that I'm pretty sure isn't helping anything.

  

Right back at'cha.

[DrkCntry]

humes spork wrote...

DrkCntry wrote...

You cannot prove that those '60k and more' are unique individuals any more than I could poll the entirety of the population that purchased Mass Effect 3.  It's antedoctal evidence at best.  The point is, unless you can poll the entirety of the population that purchased the title, you cannot state you're a majority and can only rely on whatever numbers you CAN put forward against the total numbers involved...in this case, it's a minority count.

Actually, no you don't. I made the commentary about a hundred or so pages back that even accounting for selection and response biases, that poll can be considered representative enough that it cannot be discarded completely out of hand. Based on a population of 2.4M, you'd only need 1067 responses for a scientifically valid result (that is to say, a CL of 95% and a CI of 3) in a proper poll.

Though, to weigh in my personal opinion, I think that for the media and journalistic response (post-release commentary and editorial) at the very least you can say folks who are dissatisfied with the ending are a clear plurality.

That is true, there is a rather large contignent of players who are very disatisified with the ending, and that, there, is a leading issue with the poll.  It doesn't take into account the level of overall disatisfaction in regards to the ending...and everyone should know that absolutes in polling is generally considered a no-no.

The issue I have is trying to downplay the FACTUAL information that 50k (or even 60k) is a minority.

Another fact remains that it's common knowledge that official forums for games notoriously house a general population far greater in numbers of disatisfied interests than those satisfied.  After-all, that's where most people turn these days in regards to their disatisfaction.  Factoring this, and the overall bias of the poll, means that even since the sample size is far greater than it needs to be, the bias basically tosses the validity out the door.

It's like polling Coca-Cola employees about their dislikes over Pepsi products in an official capacity.

[Tebjorn]

Also posting here to voice my support to people who wanna see that horrible ending fixed/expanded.

I hardly ever register nor post to forums I read. After being mentally gutted by the bad ending and seeing two PR statements saying absolutely nothing, I feel the need atleast post once in the threads I have been reading.

So keep discussing and posting in civil tone. I understand it can be really hard time to time. I wanted to scream at someone when I finished the game.

PS. English is not my first language so forgive the possible typos and bad grammar.

[Lugaidster]

DrkCntry wrote...

50k here on BSN is not a valid sample size, considering there's bias one, and that there's no guarantee that those sampled are unique applicants.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way. 

 

Completely true.

DrkCntry wrote... 

And yes, I CAN say we're a minority simply because our numbers are FAR SMALLER than the overall numbers of units sold.

Completely false.

[uDoh]

cApAc aMaRu wrote...

The irony that they are dismissive of emotional reactions to the problems with a game in which they give you a choice to punch a reporter in the face multiple times.

Not that I would ever punch a real reporter, but wonderfully said.

Modifié par uDoh, 21 mars 2012 - 04:59 .

[Sentr0]

DrkCntry wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

You dont get the point, i have proven that 50k only here on BSN hated the ending and many more around the world. If you want to say otherwise you have to bring proof of that. even by polling the all the population that purchased the title

PS: u cant even say we're a minority, since we share a point of view and many others may be things like us

50k here on BSN is not a valid sample size, considering there's bias one, and that there's no guarantee that those sampled are unique applicants.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

And yes, I CAN say we're a minority simply because our numbers are FAR SMALLER than the overall numbers of units sold.

First a poll having 97% of the voters hating the ending, here on BSN stronghold, is HUGE. Plus we're talking of about 60k+ people! This only would be enough to break all your theories, if you cant accept this data then u're in denial or just trolling.

Second you CANT CALL US MINORITY ANYWAY, because saying that means there is a MAJORITY WHO THINKS OTHERWISE, and we both know it ISNT TRUE (no one knows what the "rest" thinks, at least not officially...). Calling us a minority is a shameless lie. period.

Modifié par Sentr0, 21 mars 2012 - 04:59 .

[Chanvree]

DrkCntry wrote...

Sentr0 wrote...

You dont get the point, i have proven that 50k only here on BSN hated the ending and many more around the world. If you want to say otherwise you have to bring proof of that. even by polling the all the population that purchased the title

PS: u cant even say we're a minority, since we share a point of view and many others may be things like us

50k here on BSN is not a valid sample size, considering there's bias one, and that there's no guarantee that those sampled are unique applicants.  I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

And yes, I CAN say we're a minority simply because our numbers are FAR SMALLER than the overall numbers of units sold.

If we go by units sold then I account for 3.  I have the Me3 in xbox, PC and another pc purchase for my boyfriend.  All of this 3 games are under my name and payment account.  

Modifié par Chanvree, 21 mars 2012 - 04:59 .