9972 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaidster]

Chronor wrote...

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

I'm rather disappointed with Mr. Muzyka. By now, most keeping up with this thread would have seen this blog post. While I respect them taking an "artistic" stance on this issue, he's very careful in not addressing what I find to be a core issue of contention. That is, where are my numerous "wildly" different endings?

Many times he's pointedly stating "endings" in his blog, but for those of us who have finished recognize, for all intents and purposes, there is only ONE "ending." It sounds to me that any new content planned to address this issue will really be more of an epilogue. This is satisfying to a degree, but I'm still (or will be) bummed if they do not choose to give us the other "wildly" different endings as previously promised. After all, that would inherently guarantee replay and generate continued interest in their product. Maybe I'm missing something....

Till then, I will be Holding the Line!

To be fair, do you expect them to surrender any and all defense to their own work? They will, at some capacity, defend their decisions. That's just a fact. And with regards to the "wildly different endings", it was always going to be subjective. If anything, the only mistake they did was to say wildly. Your interpretation is very different than mine on that issue, and both could be different than someone else's. 

I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but rather stay objective. And I would lose a lot of respect for the guy if he suddenly threw all his workers under the bus. We have to approach the middle ground cauteously from both sides here, one moves too fast and the other one will take a clear advantage.

[reekboy]

this is odd... a thread filled with bioware staff posts. not sure if they are posting here or being copies and pasted giving the nature of this thread. though jessica i'd have to say plz forgive the pariniod fans on the threads. with the retake ME3 movement going on ppl are on edge on wiether or not they are being toyed with by thier corp. overlords or if they are generally being taken serously. I know i take most post from BW staff at face value along with a grain of salt. this issue clearly wont blow over in just 2 weeks and niether will there be a solution to it in such a small time. I to stand with the retake ME3, for the ending just doesnt seem to do any one justice, when compard to how amazing and mind blowing ME2's ending was. the fans of bioware have seen how well and how amazing the game producing teams are. thats just one of the reasons i was shocked with how it ended. I've put my 2 cents in a couple of threads that looked civil to me and not a rage pull of adolecent krogans. though if i may ask a question, what made the ME3 team split away from an ending similair to ME2? if ur able to answer that and hopfully it doesnt get torn to shreads by the human stg pack.

[MarJanM]

Hello I'm new to posting in the forums so forgive me if i make mistakes. I have been a fan of the Me series since i discovered them and as far as Me3 goes I loved it til i got to the ending and I was like wtf just happened and stared at my monitor for what seemed like hours. I couldn't believe that the same writers who wrote this fantastic game wrote that ending. So i will continue to Hold the Line and hope for closure.

[Phoenix NL]

In case this hasn't been posted - an article on the BBC -
http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17458208

[xxLDZxx]

we have a dead line if you want so, CEO sad April lets wait.

He gave us his hand, don't bite it.

[Siegdrifa]

wepeel_ wrote...

ps3.ign.com/articles/122/1221273p1.html

IGN goes as far as to announce "New Ending Incoming". If nothing else, it will make it pretty tricky for BioWare to wriggle their way out of delivering.

Ridiculous... or i'm the only one who understand that new contant doesn't mean post last mission but could rather be pre last mission ?
But not post end game only.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 21 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[Wildhide]

I think Kain over on Forbes helps break down this statement rather nicely.

Quote from Eric Kain on www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/bioware-co-founder-apologizes-to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

"Constructive criticism, Bond argues,
is a “mass hallucination.” It is “inimical to the purposes of criticism
as art. I’ll say it again: the point of criticism is not to improve
you, but to express me. And each time I digress to offer you
helpful suggestions, encouraging remarks and other pep-talk, I am not
truly expressing myself. I’m merely being polite, nice, even a bit
condescending — in other words, I’m being aesthetically repulsive.”
Imagine, for a moment, if the only criticism BioWare had received was
of the constructive variety only. Imagine it was all polite platitudes,
condescending clutter, and helpful suggestions about how to improve the
game. Do you think for a moment that we’d be reading a blog post like
the one Muzyka just penned?
Not likely. Of course, criticism of art can be as bad as criticism of critics. Plenty of dumb things have been said about Mass Effect 3 and, as is always the case with the internet, many of those dumb things can be found in places like Metacritic user reviews.
But the plethora of positive professional reviews are less helpful by
far than much of the ‘destructive’ commentary BioWare faces. Truth
rarely lies in what we want to hear. Dozens of fawning
reviewers tripping over one another to offer up their perfect scores
hardly encourage BioWare to improve. “Look how exceptional our game is!
We appreciate your concern and we are listening, but by the way did you
notice all these perfect scores we just received? You’re delusional, but
we care.”

As far as Muzyka’s apology goes: It’s better than nothing, but any
apology with a “but” at the end should be taken with a hefty spoonful of
sea salt. After all, when has “I’m sorry, honey, but…” ever worked?"

Modifié par Wildhide, 21 mars 2012 - 05:50 .

[whydoyouwanttoknow]

So if I'm reading the new PR statement correctly what he actually said was that Bioware are artists and thus have the artistic licence to falsely advertise their products.

Oh, is that some of the destructive criticism that he doesn't like?

[ericjdev]

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

[stargatefan1990]

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

[Mara281]

humes spork wrote...

DrkCntry wrote...

[...]

That is true, there is a rather large contignent of players who are very disatisified with the ending, and that, there, is a leading issue with the poll.  It doesn't take into account the level of overall disatisfaction in regards to the ending...and everyone should know that absolutes in polling is generally considered a no-no.

The issue I have is trying to downplay the FACTUAL information that 50k (or even 60k) is a minority.

[...]

Of course, you also have to factor in coverage and nonresponse biases, too. How many people may be also dissatisfied with the ending that don't know about that poll? How many people are dissatisfied with the ending that don't care to respond, or did not respond on the basis the answers were not representative of their viewpoint? I didn't respond to that poll for precisley that reason. I can name a dozen problems with that poll offhand, and 60,000 people felt strongly enough about it to participate and that alone is reason to give it careful consideration is not among them.

If I were BW/EA right now, the first thing I'd do in light of that poll is send out an actual poll capable of withstanding scientific rigor -- a ten-question Likert scale poll sent to a random selection of Origin account holders who have purchased ME3, about 10k or so (expecting a 10% response rate). Actually get some hard, numerical evidence to support the percentage of customers who are dissatisfied with the ending 

I agree. Out of the half a dozen people I know that have played ME3 all of them were extremely disappointed in the endings, but none of them come to the forums. Sending out their own official poll might help a bit, but distribution would be tricky. Not everyone signs up for the newletters (I don't), and like I said before, it seems like many people who play don't visit the forums.

[wantedman dan]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

It's a victory in battle, just not of the overall conflict. Let's not lose sight of the progress we've made.

[Wildhide]

I would point out to Mr. Muzyka that IGN, the most visited gaming website in the world, received exclusive early access to the game. Their review page was unlike any other review they have ever done, adorned with fancy graphics and links to buy the game over at Gamestop’s online store. Moreover, one of IGN’s employees is featured in the game in likeness and voice, and that same employee presented a prominent preview of the game.

Why should we take the game reviewers as unbiased. This is just the worst example of how they are not, and are in fact quite biased.

The lack of actually addressing the issues in yet another statement is quite disappointing and merely reaffirms their efforts to ignore their error. Games can be art, but art is NEVER immune to criticism, in fact constructive pat on the back criticism does very little for the artist. You need to know what you did wrong to improve what you're doing.

[Lugaidster]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

You don't win a war with only one battle, but you take your victories when it counts. This is a victory for our side, many are still to come, but we can take several things from this. As with any real battle, not all is perfect though, there's a but attached to the letter, but at least it addresses some of the concerns. Two days ago people were asking for them to at least address this concerns with something more than listening. They're giving a date. It's a small change to their discourse, but a change nonetheless. 

When you win a battle in the field, you don't say to your soldiers "hold on everyone, this means nothing" that just shatters morale. 

[Dusty Boy T]

I'm not getting my hopes up until April's announcement comes, and I'm most certainly not going to praise Mr. Muzyka over his self-endearing "apology" to the fans.

The line still holds.

[Maglor07]

Small victory aye. Muzyka didn't say much and tried again to belittle the movement, but then again, that was to be expected.
We did however get a date and a promise that something was in the works regarding the ending, although I wouldn't get my hopes up yet.

We soldier on and hold the line.

[Mara281]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

I don't think it's a victory in the slightest. Even at its most hopeful it's a big maybe. If you have to 'explain' an ending like BW is saying they might do, it's still not a good ending. I want an ending that mattered, not one that grasps at straws to 'explain' the current one.

[Solotalento]

"Trust that we are doing our
damndest, as always, to address your feedback.  As artists, we care
about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support."

anyone else noticed that in the last sentence the word trust is written in italic...

Hard to earn, yet so easy to destroy...

[Siegdrifa]

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

It's not a good news, nor bad either, it's a statement from Bioware GM.

There is no promises, no answers to your question, just some info about "how" they get it, and that they will answer in april.

Until then, keep the pressure, nothing personnal, it's just how things goes, in april they will annouce their plan, if the movement dies by this moment, they won't need them anymore.
Annoucing plan doesn't mean they are already at work, it's still being decided, and until it is official, no money have been invested, they can always stop and go back.

No silence from us for the weeks to come guys.

[Mara281]

Lugaidster wrote...

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

You don't win a war with only one battle, but you take your victories when it counts. This is a victory for our side, many are still to come, but we can take several things from this. As with any real battle, not all is perfect though, there's a but attached to the letter, but at least it addresses some of the concerns. Two days ago people were asking for them to at least address this concerns with something more than listening. They're giving a date. It's a small change to their discourse, but a change nonetheless. 

When you win a battle in the field, you don't say to your soldiers "hold on everyone, this means nothing" that just shatters morale. 

 Though this is very true. I take back what I said earlier. It is a small victory. It may feel like nothing has changed, but a tiny step is better than no step at all.

[MeldarthX]

jarrettwold wrote...

Hobbs1975 wrote...

That's definitely better than the Hudson PR statement, but it still seems like they don't get it.  They want it all to go away and believe it is a tiny minority.

How do they don't get it?

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April."

That's pretty darned definitive. 

I got to agree with you Jarrett - I do think BW is getting it - are they as open as we like - no - but the lines are there - So its up to us to use them - I've posted in the forums they have asked for feedback -

I'll post again - I will ask everyone here - even if you don't really like writing - simply make a list of what you'd like to see changed........

As I've said I'm all for them leaving the ending - then expand - give the happy ending; bittersweet and complete lose endings like they promised.

If it takes time - we are willing to wait - if I know for sure we're going to get this - I will bring a lot of business to BW and EA.

One of m best friends said why don't you get Kingdoms of an - I said - because I can't sit here and say to others; hold the line - let them know you won't buy anything until this is resolved.  Then simple turn around and be a hypocrite.

We need to keep the pressure on - but be respectful - we also have to be open to talk - because BW is trying -  Lets meet them half way - Post your suggestions......

Keep things civil - respectful - if you don't we end up just looking like an angry mob - which is a lot easier to say no too than a calm, collected - respectful mob.

We've hit them hard enough for CEO to speak on this already - they have given us a time frame - which is more than what we had before - They need until April around Pax east to bring up ideas - finish things.......etc.

We've got time - we're not going anywhere......we keep the pressure on though; we can't give them excuse to not do this.


HOLD THE LINE

[Utopianus]

Wildhide wrote...

I think Kain over on Forbes helps break down this statement rather nicely.

Quote from Eric Kain on www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/bioware-co-founder-apologizes-to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

"Constructive criticism, Bond argues,
is a “mass hallucination.” It is “inimical to the purposes of criticism
as art. I’ll say it again: the point of criticism is not to improve
you, but to express me. And each time I digress to offer you
helpful suggestions, encouraging remarks and other pep-talk, I am not
truly expressing myself. I’m merely being polite, nice, even a bit
condescending — in other words, I’m being aesthetically repulsive.”
Imagine, for a moment, if the only criticism BioWare had received was
of the constructive variety only. Imagine it was all polite platitudes,
condescending clutter, and helpful suggestions about how to improve the
game. Do you think for a moment that we’d be reading a blog post like
the one Muzyka just penned?
Not likely. Of course, criticism of art can be as bad as criticism of critics. Plenty of dumb things have been said about Mass Effect 3 and, as is always the case with the internet, many of those dumb things can be found in places like Metacritic user reviews.
But the plethora of positive professional reviews are less helpful by
far than much of the ‘destructive’ commentary BioWare faces. Truth
rarely lies in what we want to hear. Dozens of fawning
reviewers tripping over one another to offer up their perfect scores
hardly encourage BioWare to improve. “Look how exceptional our game is!
We appreciate your concern and we are listening, but by the way did you
notice all these perfect scores we just received? You’re delusional, but
we care.”

As far as Muzyka’s apology goes: It’s better than nothing, but any
apology with a “but” at the end should be taken with a hefty spoonful of
sea salt. After all, when has “I’m sorry, honey, but…” ever worked?"

Wow, I'm impressed by his analysis.

[MikeSnipe1692]

Check out the Mass Effect twitter feed. Said that Casey and Ray's comments say that they will release content to answer questions, not necessarily alter anything. Sounds like they are still trying to keep their endings. I'm not exactly okay with this. What about you guys?

[stargatefan1990]

Lugaidster wrote...

stargatefan1990 wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Wow, some good news finally. Haven't felt this happy since I finished the game. It seems like some of us are scrambling to find a way to not take anything postive from that, I think that's sad. Feeling hopeful and optimistic. War not over, but I disagree adamantly with those who say this isn't a victory.

i disagree with both sides this is not a victory no real Conformation for him to get involved is certainlyin the right direction for a victory but we are definitley getting there lets see what happens in April

You don't win a war with only one battle, but you take your victories when it counts. This is a victory for our side, many are still to come, but we can take several things from this. As with any real battle, not all is perfect though, there's a but attached to the letter, but at least it addresses some of the concerns. Two days ago people were asking for them to at least address this concerns with something more than listening. They're giving a date. It's a small change to their discourse, but a change nonetheless. 

When you win a battle in the field, you don't say to your soldiers "hold on everyone, this means nothing" that just shatters morale. 

i certainitly did not mean this means nothing sorry if it seemed as such just be cautious with this we have made amazing headway and will continue to do so until we come to sort of amicable agreement with bioware

[joekickass666]

MikeSnipe1692 wrote...

Check out the Mass Effect twitter feed. Said that Casey and Ray's comments say that they will release content to answer questions, not necessarily alter anything. Sounds like they are still trying to keep their endings. I'm not exactly okay with this. What about you guys?

have to wait and see what they do, until then it's "lot's of speculation"